speaker-1: Honesty Commerce is a weekly podcast where we interview direct to consumer brand founders and leaders to find out what it takes to start, grow, and scale an online business today. Honesty Commerce is proudly produced by Electric Eye, a Shopify Plus partner helping e-commerce brands sell more with strategic design and development. Visit electriqueye.io for more information. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest E commerce. My name is Chase Klymer, and today I’m welcoming the show JW Wiseman, the founder of Curious Elixir’s Booze Free Cocktails and Wines with Adaptogens to help you unwind. JW, welcome to the show. Absolutely. So I kind of spilled the beans on the product there. amazing booze free craft cocktails and wines. ⁓ you know, take me back in time. ⁓ where did the idea to to start a business in the non alcoholic space come from?

speaker-0: Thrilled to be here, Ch.

speaker-1: All right.

speaker-0: Right, hopping in the DeLorean with Doc Brown. Let’s go back to twenty twelve this time. ⁓ so I had a crazy night of drinking. ⁓ I had, you know, over twenty drinks in one night. And the next day I thought I’d have like a really bad hangover and I didn’t have any hangover. And that that was what scared me the most, you know, being a bar owner here and being in nightlife. You can drink an awful lot and still be highly functional in New York because you don’t necessarily you don’t have to drive here. you know, you can use public transit, you can get, you know, ride share, you can get cab. And so that was really what started it because I still love going out. You know, I love being social. I love restaurants. I love theater, comedy clubs, all these different places. And it seemed like every time I went out and I was, you know, not drinking alcohol, there wasn’t anything adult. And that’s really the light bulb moment. You know, I was sitting in a Mexican restaurant on the Upper West Side with a friend who was sober and we were both sharing how like we felt Like we didn’t belong in certain social environments. And so that’s really when the spark happened. And I said, Okay, well, I’m gonna start tinkering in my kitchen and start see if I can make something. And you know, the results have been magical since then. ⁓ you know, roller coaster is is probably the most apt metaphor. It’s thrilling and terrifying and ⁓ lots of ⁓ lots of ups and downs along the way.

speaker-1: Absolutely.

speaker-0: Yeah, we didn’t really even start, you know, for another as officially as a company until three years later when, you know, I was like, okay, this is beyond just making drinks for parties and for friends. This is a way bigger thing than I thought it was. And I was I was literally watching Martha Stewart speak at a conference and, you know, I was kind of like, ⁓ I’m not a naturally confident person, you know, am I should I do this? Should I not? And the person asked the person interviewing her asked this question, like Was there ever a time when like the chips were down and you thought it might not work out? And she was like, Nope, never, not once. Which is not me. And but I I took that. That that really struck me. It struck me deeply. And I was like, I am starting this company. It’s happening. I can borrow Martha’s confident energy anytime I want. ⁓ thank you, Martha. And that’s really when it started. That was in twenty fifteen, and that’s when the company officially started was in that moment.

speaker-1: That’s amazing. Now, how long did it take from, you know, all right, we’re doing this or in your head you’re like, all right, I’m doing this to where you had your first like iteration of the product?

speaker-0: About six months later, I had the first iteration of the product, and that’s when I really laid the groundwork for the Kickstarter campaign and you know, kind of going into launch mode. So it you know, about six months to get the first draft of the product. I had already been tinkering for years, you know. I so that it’s a little bit of a you know, miscalculation to say like six months later we had the product. It was really like three and a half years of tinkering in my kitchen to be like what works, what doesn’t, what what roots are gonna be bitter that’s gonna give me that bittersweet edge to make it actually adult. And all the time I was just like obsessed with learning about drinks and roots and functional ingredients like adaptogens that now more and more people are starting to understand. But in 2015 when we launched, people had no idea what this stuff was. And so that’s been kind of like the biggest change over the course of the 11 years we’ve been in business is how much we’re able to now talk about the function because Millions more people understand.

speaker-1: Absolutely. And ⁓ let’s talk about the Kickstarter and the first product or products. Did you go in with just like a flagship product or did you launch with a kind of a line of of products for the first go round?

speaker-0: So I had the first three plotted out, the first three elixirs, Curious Number One, Curious Number Two, and Curious Number Three, which I have right here, which is ⁓ like our martini. Kind of like ⁓ you can either make it dirty with olives or you can just do it with a lemon twist and ⁓ and have it either way. But I started with one product that was finished for the Kickstarter. And that’s the one that we started bottling was Curious Number One. And then number two came Six months later and number three came a few months after that. And we’ve released one new Elixir every year for our eleven years. So we have eleven now.

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speaker-0: People who pledged a certain amount got access to the first three flavors, but as they were released. So, you know, one kind of in the first month, then they got to be the first members of the Curious Cocktail Club. And in the Curious Cocktail Club, you get a rotating monthly variety pack. So basically you get three flavors a month. You know, you can choose either four bottles, twelve bottles, or twenty-four bottles in the club, and you get these different, you know, different flavors each month. So in the Kickstarter, there was only one flavor ready. And they got that for the first few months and then it was the second flavor was ready, you know, kind of like summer of ⁓ you know, the following year. Then they got the third elixir after that. And then cocktail club members get access to the first batch of the new flavors first.

speaker-1: And now not to simplify things, but sometimes you do need to really spell it out for some of the early entrepreneurs or people like me that are super dense, which you know, your member or your your curious club is its membership, it’s subscription. ⁓ you know, is that the flagship product for the directed consumer side of the business?

speaker-0: Yes, that is the flagship, you know, product for the direct consumer business is the Curious Cocktail Club. And that includes our cocktails and our wines. And we even have one brew, you know, for for beer drinkers. And but there’s other ways to enjoy it too. You know, that’s just kind of like the best, easiest way to get acquainted with, you know, all of the different elixirs that we have. You know, and you get like one of these little nice cards that has all the different flavors on it. ⁓ this is our flavor and function card that comes in every box. And so that’s the cocktail club is really the best way to find like, ⁓ which flavors are really for me? You know, for some people they love all the flavors, for other people they love two or three of them. You know, everybody’s palate is different, everyone’s preferences are different, everyone’s experience is different. You know, like when I taste this, the curious number three, it’s giving me memories, you know, of drinks in Japan, drinks in Italy, ⁓ you know, different inspirations from kind of like my cocktail and wine journey across the world. So Each person is gonna find, you know, which flavors work best for them, both in terms of how they taste and how they make them feel.

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speaker-0: It was both. You know, we definitely had a lot of help. We asked as many people as we could for advice, people who had done Kickstarters before. In our co-working space, there were a couple of people who had had really massively successful Kickstarters, you know, in cookware and other things. So it’s like picking their brain. ⁓ we did also talk to Kickstarter consultant and, you know, and and had her help. And s and there were some really incredibly valuable things from that, you know. ⁓ here’s the number one thing I learned from the Kickstarter consultant. Number one thing is your first 24 hours is 80% of the ball game. So if you get in the first 24 hours 30% to your goal, you have over a 90% chance of success. That’s how big the momentum is. But you have to get to that kind of like first third. And so what does that mean? That means you have to prep your audience, every single person you’ve done business with, your friends, your family, everyone, acquaintances, everyone that you think might be interested in what you’re doing. Hit them up one week before and say, before you launch the Kickstarter and say, Don’t do anything right now, but I need your help. If you can pledge even one dollar when I give you the, you know, the signal, the bat signal one week from today, if you can give one dollar right then, immediately, then we have a ninety percent chance of success. That this is the key. The key is getting everybody to do do it all in one shot. All on one day and prepping them beforehand. You know, it’s like throwing a good party. You have to get people to RSVP. You know, you have to get them to say, Yes, I I would like to do that with you. and that makes all the difference. Then following on the success of that, you know, and again, that’s that’s 80% of it right there, making sure that you get everybody in your community to do that one thing at that one singular moment. After that, you go out. To every press contact that you have, every single person says, This is a limited time thing. You know, I would love if you would consider covering this. And we got a couple key pieces of press that help get us beyond our friends and family community and into more people who were drinking less for a bunch of different reasons. And that’s the amazing thing about what Curious does is it’s not just for people who are sober. It’s for people who are cutting back. It’s people who are training for a marathon, you know, or they have an allergy, or a thousand different reasons why people are drinking less. And but the the biggest groups of people that Curious is for is not just people who don’t drink at all. It’s also people who are just looking to drink less. And that’s kind of like one of the big, you know, aha moments for me was figuring that out by doing some research.

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speaker-0: There was a time when I knew no one in New York. And this is coming, you know, from and I learned this. I learned this really key thing that you can get to anybody in the world with gentle persistence. And if you just ask for five minutes of their time and you genuinely, genuinely think that you can help them in some way and they can help you. And that is really key. So and it’s it’s kind of like flirting. It’s not gonna work out every time. The first time you flirt with somebody, they’re probably not gonna be your husband or your wife, you know? And that’s okay. Just the act of like being open and honest and and talking to somebody that maybe you’re moving a little outside of your comfort zone, it’s similar to press. You know? And the other thing with press today is it’s beyond just traditional publications that we’ve been covered in, like the Wall Street Journal and New York Times. It’s Substack. It’s honest e-commerce. It’s Podcasts. It’s different things like that where you go in with these audiences that are going to be much more likely to be into what you’re doing rather than like going for a huge market right out of the gate. Go small first. You know? Like the first piece of press that we got was from our friends at Refinery Twenty Nine, like a fashion and style blog. And there’s lots of like fashion girlies that were like looking to drink less. And their audience loved it. And a bunch of them ended up backing the Kickstarter. You know? And so You can get to anybody. And it’s just really important that you ask. This is kind of like if you don’t ask, you don’t get. You have to get comfortable with asking. ⁓ but it’s not just about like taking, it’s like what can you give them? You know, if you’re going to reach out to a journalist, you’re giving them a story. You’re helping them do their work. And if you make a nice story for them and kind of like package it well in your opening email and your opening phone call, whatever it is. It makes their lives so much easier. You know, their audiences are hungry and thirsty for stories. So if you help them do their jobs, that’s a gift to them and it’s a gift to you.

speaker-1: You have prepped all year, and all that hard work is paying off. Your store is converting, the ads are working, and this is shaping up to be your best holiday season. But your 3PL can’t keep up. Orders are backing up, customers are asking where their stuff is, the reviews are starting to turn. All that hard work, all that momentum, undone by a fulfillment partner that can’t scale with you. This is a nightmare scenario, and it happens to brands every holiday season. Enter eFulfillment service. EFulfment Service is the 3PL that scales with you. They are family owned, they’ve been in business for over 25 years, and they’re built specifically for growing direct-to-consumer brands. There are no setup fees, no minimums, and no long-term contracts. You only pay for what you use. If you’re scared your 3PL can’t keep up this holiday season, now is the time to reach out to eFulfillment service. Go to eFulfillmentservice.com/slash honest and get up to eight weeks of account fees completely waived. That’s EFP. U L F I L L ⁓ E N T S E R V I C E dot com slash H O N E S T E fulfillment Service dot com slash honest. Absolutely, JW. I I always like to use the phrase lead with value whenever you’re like trying to do outreach per se or just meet a new person. just ⁓ imagine yourself risk on the receiving end of that and put yourself into their shoes with whatever it is. That they’re, you know, good at, and just be like, what email would they want to receive? How could you make their day job life, whatever, a little bit better? That’s going to make your response rates on those things skyrocket. And also, it’s a numbers game, like you said. It’s a it’s a persistence game. ⁓ you can’t take any of it personally when they don’t re reply or don’t, or reply not interested, because you also have to remember that. They don’t know you from anyone else. They don’t owe you anything. Right. So don’t take it personally. Now you launch on Kickstarter, ⁓ that’s going well. You get the first ⁓ couple, you know, elixirs out. What does the first kind of pillars of the business look like? Are you guys launching and going straight direct to consumer first? Did you start to explore wholesale? Was there other options like Amazon? Like where were you where were you spending most of your time and those first couple of years to try to

speaker-0: A hundred percent.

speaker-1: Get the flywheel started.

speaker-0: Great question. So to get the flywheel started, you know, I was a e-commerce marketer by trade. You know, I had been at ⁓ this company called Thrillist, and we also had a business called Jack Threads, ⁓ which is kind of like streetwear for dudes, you know, and we were spending a tremendous amount of time and money on ⁓ Facebook and Instagram and Google. And so we started putting our dollars to work. immediately, you know. ⁓ mo most of the Kickstarter money, like that just went straight into production, you know, into like producing the bottles of Curious themselves. We were making 500 bottles a week on Main Street in Beacon, New York of the Hudson Valley. And it went straight into that. But we also started doing digital marketing, ⁓ you know, paid digital marketing and, you know, lifecycle marketing, you know, referrals, ⁓ things of that nature. And putting, you know, whatever money we made back into development of the products, ⁓ and back into more advertising to kind of like start that flywheel.

speaker-1: Just to set expectations for people, and I mean this was also almost eight years ago. How much money were you spending a week or a month on Facebook ads?

speaker-0: ⁓ tiny amounts in the early years, tiny amounts, hundreds of dollars a week. You know, not you know, now it’s thousands and thousands of dollars a day, you know. But and and the roller coaster ride of how well paid social has done is really volatile. People kind of, you know, liken it to Vegas, like you’re gambling. And, you know, our team is excellent at it. and we’ve been really focused on e-commerce, you know, for our entire history. We arguably we’re too late to wholesale, you know, and we’re not in big box retail and things like that. I mean, our our drinks are in glass bottles, you know. And for a lot of retailers, they prioritize cans. and eventually will we have products that, you know, work for large supermarket chains? Absolutely. But you know, for right now, we’re in specialty groceries, ⁓ we’re in nicer boutique liquor stores and places and restaurants, hotels, clubs, etc., where the staff deeply cares about ingredients. That’s the through line. If they deeply care about ingredients and what’s going out in front of their customers, then it’s generally a great fit for us. You know, if it’s churn and burn and we’re all about volume, not a great fit for us. They have to have kind of an upscale consumer that has kind of a more advanced palate, you know, not something none of our drinks are too sweet or none of them are basic. All of them have a beginning, middle, and an end to them in terms of how you drink them. And they s help you slow down. You know, these are these are cravable, but they’re not chuggered drinks. You know, you’re not chugging these, you’re sipping them.

speaker-1: Absolutely. Looking back these eleven years now in, is there any like mistake that stands out to you that you made along the way that you’re like, I wish somebody would go on a podcast with a guy named Chase and talk about it and I wouldn’t make that mistake.

speaker-0: Yeah. So there’s a couple big ones. The first one that comes to mind is, you know, so say for these bottles, and if you’re listening, you won’t be able to see this, but if you’re watching, you’ll be able to see like here’s curious number five. And it’s got this nice purple label that goes over the top, right? Each one of these is applied by hand. And that’s expensive. You know, when we say these are crafted cocktails and wines, we we mean it. There’s humans involved making all of these. And that label over the top, we invested over $70,000 to automate that process of putting that label over those bottles. And we never were able to get it to work properly. And that’s something that I wish we had leased that instead of buying it outright. That would have been ⁓ something I would have loved to have done is to. lease that piece of equipment. I I’ve learned this a couple of times where we don’t really want to own the equipment, the means of production, at least for our stage of business. ⁓ it’s much better to work with high quality partners who can help you manufacture and to try out, you know, different machinery rather than buying it outright, right from the jump. So that’s one thing I learned was like try before you buy.

speaker-1: Yeah, that’s such a a good statement there. And it goes to like ⁓ even I see a lot of businesses ⁓ will get too much space, like warehouse space right at the beginning because they think it’s a good deal or it’s not gonna happen again, or they get a too fancy of an office. ⁓ you really need to be a hawk on your PL. And one of my favorite stories about this is ⁓ Bezos rented like the back room of some other business for the longest time and his desk was a ⁓ was a a door on top of two ⁓ like other non-desk parts. So it’s if you can do it cheaply by used rent, like you need to keep your monthly overhead down, keep your margin cash flow up so you can keep reinvesting in growth. And like that’s you always got to think about that. Yes. And I I don’t know. It’s I think it’s l it especially at the beginning for a lot of startups and entrepreneurs, there’s some sort of ⁓ you know, clout that they’re chasing or some success metric that only they are tied to in their head. It’s very much a mindset thing where it’s like, no, I need the new nice, not shiny thing, or people won’t take me seriously. I’ll tell you what, right? Money talks, bullshit walks. They don’t really care about any of that other stuff. Do you have a successful dis business? That’s what people care about. Hey everybody, just a quick reminder please like this video and subscribe if you haven’t. We’re releasing interviews like this every week. So don’t miss out. Now back to the interview.

speaker-0: Yeah, so true. Yeah, it’s it’s wrapped up in ego, you know. And people are like, ⁓ well, I raised this money and you know, and I got this fancy office, and none of that means anything, you know. ⁓ the business is not about raising money or having an office. The business is about achieving your mission. In our case, it’s to transform how we drink socially. And, you know, arguably we were the first people to do it. And You know, there’s been many others that are doing this along the way now, and that’s fantastic because it takes hundreds of brands, millions of people to make generational change. And that’s what we’ve been doing. You know, I mean, we’re very fortunate in that, you know, the the movement started to be called the sober curious movement. You know, we actually came before that, you know, before that term even existed. And so that’s been really helpful. You when you’re doing things right, I feel like there’s kind of these serendipitous you know, synchronicities that kind of give you tailwinds. and I’ve been paying attention to those and the more you see those, the more I know that like I’m right where I’m supposed to.

speaker-1: to be. Absolutely. Now, ⁓ before we go, you’ve talked a lot with passion about these amazing products that you and your team are producing over there. If I am curious and I want to check them out, where should I go? What should I do? The

speaker-0: best way is to go to CuriousElixirs dot com and put in code Honest eCommerce when you buy, you know, a Curious Cocktail Club membership and we’ll give you a special deal for all of your listeners. ⁓ that’s really the number one thing to do. And yeah, I mean we’re also available in in a bunch of restaurants and hotels and things like that, but they they probably only have two or three flavors. And you know, I think that going to CuriousElixirs.com and Trying the trying out two or three months in the cocktail club, you’re gonna get the best deal. And you’re gonna get to try, you know, a ton of stuff. Everything from like a martini to, you know, our sumptuous Syrah. We have a red wine now. and if you’ve tried, you know, any non alcoholic red wines, you’ll know that like pretty much all of them are bad except for ours. There’s like one or two out there that are pretty good. so like what’s your favorite, what’s your favorite thing to drink when you’re drinking something adult, Chase?

speaker-1: I’m a big fan of a nice IPA.

speaker-0: Nice beer drinker, cool. Like that. You know, for us, we have Curia Zero, that’s our craft brew. And because there’s so many kind of like really hoppy beers out there, we decided to do something a little different and go with a barley forward lager. So it’s got more of like a Japanese tea kind of roasted barley thing going on. But what it also does is it has maca root to kind of help you with muscle recovery and libido and lions man for your brain, because we all need a brain boost. You know what I mean? Absolutely. ⁓ thank you so much for having me on here, Chase. It was really fun talking with you.

speaker-1: JW, it was an absolute pleasure. ⁓ and I’m sure we’ll have you back in a year or so and to see how the journey’s going. Thanks, man.