00:00.628 –> 00:17.665
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m hoping to see it, a resurgence in PR, I think, particularly as people are thinking about optimizing for AI agents and, you know, kind of AI search and all of those things, how you position yourself in the marketplace, how people talk about you is increasingly important.

00:20.263 –> 00:22.647
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

00:23.188 –> 00:27.274
[SPEAKER_02]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

00:27.795 –> 00:35.587
[SPEAKER_02]: Cutting through the highly to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

00:38.937 –> 00:40.138
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.

00:40.158 –> 00:41.319
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.

00:41.399 –> 00:45.122
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

00:45.642 –> 00:48.384
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode we’ve got one of our regular guests back on.

00:48.444 –> 00:53.227
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Janice Thomas is here for our first chat about her new role at Clothes Doctor.

00:53.568 –> 00:56.970
[SPEAKER_01]: And before anyone says it’s nepotism, we’re not related.

00:57.210 –> 00:59.492
[SPEAKER_01]: The surname is just a coincidence.

00:59.592 –> 01:04.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Janice is back because she always brings great insights to the show this time we are talking about

01:05.496 –> 01:08.638
[SPEAKER_01]: sustainability and eco products are why that fits in the marketing mix.

01:08.678 –> 01:14.321
[SPEAKER_01]: We’re getting into the different types of subscription and how to build and grow subscription businesses.

01:15.122 –> 01:25.228
[SPEAKER_01]: Our subscription products are there and we will also be talking about how she is using AI within the marketing team at closed doctor.

01:25.768 –> 01:28.930
[SPEAKER_01]: Please isn’t the other of the episodes you don’t miss out on her top tips either.

01:34.740 –> 01:36.640
[SPEAKER_01]: And now to introduce our special guest.

01:37.141 –> 01:46.283
[SPEAKER_01]: Janice Thomas is the CMO at Clothe Stockter, a fast-growing UK clothing care brand selling premium laundry and fabric care products.

01:46.643 –> 01:52.584
[SPEAKER_01]: Founded in 2017, they are now a seven-figure business selling via wholesale, Amazon, and their Shopify store.

01:52.764 –> 01:53.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Janice.

01:54.005 –> 01:54.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Chloe.

01:54.825 –> 01:55.665
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.

01:56.325 –> 01:59.167
[SPEAKER_01]: as always an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.

01:59.727 –> 02:01.188
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is your fourth time.

02:01.208 –> 02:07.492
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was kind of racking my brains with your help to be fair, to work out what my first question should you be to you.

02:07.512 –> 02:09.133
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you know, how do you get into your comments?

02:09.153 –> 02:10.353
[SPEAKER_01]: We’ve definitely really covered that.

02:10.593 –> 02:18.338
[SPEAKER_01]: But as you suggested, and as it’s quite likely to be a theme of this episode’s description, how did you end up working in the world of subscription?

02:19.492 –> 02:25.697
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so funny enough, when I graduated, I went to work for a big Fz100 retailer.

02:26.297 –> 02:31.001
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was an incredibly commercial numbers driven environment.

02:31.701 –> 02:35.884
[SPEAKER_00]: And so really when I left there, I went to work for News International.

02:35.964 –> 02:46.592
[SPEAKER_00]: And because I’ve come from this very commercial numbers driven basis, it enabled me to kind of segue into subscriptions like really naturally, because everything is about the numbers

02:47.413 –> 02:48.453
[SPEAKER_00]: and all of those things.

02:48.493 –> 02:56.515
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I spent six years at News International publishing, then I went to work for Playboy.

02:57.096 –> 03:08.339
[SPEAKER_00]: I then went on to build one of the streaming platforms in the UK, even before Netflix was doing streaming and basically spent more than a decade in Median Entertainment

03:10.119 –> 03:24.591
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to work for Birch Box, who recognized that while they could get people who understood beauty, who understood e-commerce, getting someone from a very, very strong subscription background could really, really help them grow their business.

03:25.392 –> 03:32.818
[SPEAKER_00]: And from that, I kind of transitioned into straight e-com, but then in November last year I came back to

03:36.014 –> 03:36.854
[SPEAKER_01]: excellent news.

03:37.275 –> 03:54.743
[SPEAKER_01]: So having spent so long in media subscription where there is a admittedly a lot of the time of physical product, not always a physical product, there’s also a physical product, how different is e-commerce subscription, if we can call it that, if one of the better phrase, to media subscription, is it different?

03:55.823 –> 03:59.585
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of things are the same.

03:59.685 –> 04:13.810
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the things that make media subscription difficult, which is mostly around getting people to use the product because they paid for it, but it’s actually about consumption.

04:14.651 –> 04:20.533
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s the specific challenge for media subscriptions that you don’t tend to find with physical product.

04:20.773 –> 04:32.700
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you do a little bit because certainly a bird box like our primary reason for cancellation is what we called sampled out is that you had so much product and that you needed to take a break for a while.

04:32.720 –> 04:33.900
[SPEAKER_00]: So there are even there.

04:33.920 –> 04:36.942
[SPEAKER_00]: There are parallels with it.

04:37.182 –> 04:39.563
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think particularly when I went to

04:40.624 –> 04:45.388
[SPEAKER_00]: the metrics in a subscription business are absolutely crucial.

04:45.448 –> 04:46.870
[SPEAKER_00]: They call it the leaky bucket.

04:47.350 –> 04:57.659
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the whole idea is that you’ve got to have a certain amount of acquisition coming in, but you’re always going to be losing a certain amount of your customer base.

04:58.240 –> 05:07.388
[SPEAKER_00]: And it’s all about how do you maximize those kind of what goes in, what happens when they’re there and what happens when they leave.

05:08.128 –> 05:28.421
[SPEAKER_00]: that is universal to any subscription business and certainly for me actually really helped to applying those principles to a straight e-com business as well because there’s so much you can learn about particularly in subscription, there is no point acquiring a poor quality customer.

05:28.761 –> 05:36.067
[SPEAKER_00]: somebody who’s going to cancel, somebody who’s not going to stay, you’re going to very, very quickly have a business that is in trouble.

05:36.787 –> 05:45.273
[SPEAKER_00]: So applying that to a straight e-com business where you’re like, actually, I just, I don’t want to just acquire customers at volume.

05:45.433 –> 05:56.842
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to acquire quality customers who are going to come back, who are going to advocate for the brand and all of those things are really, really useful principles to then apply to straight e-com business.

05:57.460 –> 06:03.711
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think often in the world of straight e-com people go, how are we going to increase revenue?

06:03.831 –> 06:05.414
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we’ll slap a subscription on it.

06:05.935 –> 06:07.377
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s, it’s,

06:08.627 –> 06:21.594
[SPEAKER_01]: When you want to start on picking it, actually, subscription is as different a business model as selling on marketplaces or opening a physical store to you buy, you go, you come as you know, straight forward, you come as isn’t it?

06:21.614 –> 06:30.118
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a completely different set of messaging, techniques, software, et cetera, et cetera, a completely different business model.

06:30.718 –> 06:38.945
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think as you’ve alluded to, where businesses get into trouble is I want to launch a subscription to my product.

06:39.325 –> 06:45.070
[SPEAKER_00]: Rather than why would customers subscribe to this, why is this a subscription business?

06:45.630 –> 06:47.412
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s where things tend to go.

06:47.432 –> 06:48.293
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

06:48.833 –> 06:48.993
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

06:49.013 –> 06:52.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want to get into what you’ve been up to at close.

06:52.759 –> 06:55.843
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you’ve been there for about nine months at the time of recording?

06:56.163 –> 07:00.509
[SPEAKER_01]: So let’s just update the audience a bit on what close doctor actually is.

07:00.549 –> 07:03.073
[SPEAKER_01]: So where in the world are you and where are you selling to?

07:03.701 –> 07:12.384
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so we sell worldwide to be fair on Shopify, but we are predominantly UK because we are based in the UK.

07:13.064 –> 07:25.087
[SPEAKER_00]: And in terms of what we’re doing, I think this ties into that kind of subscription that we’ve always been about caring for your clothes and keeping them looking new for longer.

07:25.107 –> 07:31.629
[SPEAKER_00]: And ultimately that came from a founder, Lulu’s frustration with that kind of fast, fashion,

07:33.850 –> 07:44.334
[SPEAKER_00]: But it’s not just, oh, you should be buying quality clothes that last, but actually how you treat those clothes has a massive impact on how long they last.

07:44.614 –> 07:47.216
[SPEAKER_00]: But it’s not something we ever really think about.

07:47.256 –> 07:54.478
[SPEAKER_00]: We’re just like, oh, I wear something and I put it in the wash. We don’t think about, oh, should I wash that?

07:54.959 –> 08:02.582
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and if I don’t wash it, how do I make sure it feels nice when I put it on next time?

08:04.046 –> 08:13.435
[SPEAKER_00]: But then if you are gonna wash stuff, then I mean, now I’ve worked in the business, you know, how you can’t unsee something once you’ve seen it.

08:13.775 –> 08:26.007
[SPEAKER_00]: And it’s just like even like eco detergent, it’s like a big plastic bottle that is 90% water and then the remaining ingredients is mostly filler.

08:26.547 –> 08:29.829
[SPEAKER_00]: and it’s like, how, why are we buying these products?

08:30.289 –> 08:51.201
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we specifically came up with a solution to that, which is called everyday laundry, with the when you are going to wash your clothes that you do that in a much more sustainable, effective way there’s better for your clothes, but also that whole kind of piece around that you don’t always need to wash your clothes and how should you

08:53.622 –> 08:53.982
[SPEAKER_01]: got you.

08:54.022 –> 09:02.628
[SPEAKER_01]: So all about extending the life of our clothes and helping us have less impact on the environment with how we manage our clothes as opposed.

09:03.709 –> 09:06.290
[SPEAKER_01]: So what does the team look like?

09:06.310 –> 09:07.931
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you doing everything in hell?

09:07.951 –> 09:10.273
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are many of you, if you’re out of your outsourced.

09:10.857 –> 09:13.478
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we are very small.

09:13.518 –> 09:31.345
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, we’ve been on quite a journey since I’ve joined around slimming down our agency profile, doing more stuff in-house and particularly using AI tools rather than agency, and we become a lot more self-sufficient.

09:31.385 –> 09:34.927
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it’s taught me so much about

09:35.927 –> 09:51.871
[SPEAKER_00]: what you can do and what you can do yourself as well, that particularly for me personally, using AI tools for things where I would have generally had a fairly senior experience.

09:57.993 –> 10:21.300
[SPEAKER_00]: How would I brief that team member and how would I have evaluated their output and using AI tools in that place has been really really interesting because we are a small business a small team and if we want to grow then we need to grow the business without significantly increasing our head count and our fixed costs.

10:22.445 –> 10:25.726
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to ask you some AI advice here.

10:26.046 –> 10:32.427
[SPEAKER_01]: What key tools, key problems to solve with it, or anything you’ve discovered just don’t even try?

10:33.688 –> 10:45.471
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, the biggest thing that I’ve found that is the most useful is genuinely thinking about the tools as you would a team member.

10:45.631 –> 10:48.491
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what information would you provide them with?

10:48.571 –> 10:50.772
[SPEAKER_00]: What feedback would you give them?

10:51.752 –> 10:52.972
[SPEAKER_00]: how would you treat them?

10:52.992 –> 11:06.735
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think particularly, you know, I was having a conversation with a colleague the other day about I think she called it reverse prompt engineering where you’re asking the tool, what does it need to know in order to do this task?

11:06.855 –> 11:17.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I’d kind of already figured that out organically myself because that’s how I would work with a team member would be like,

11:22.419 –> 11:22.939
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.

11:23.019 –> 11:26.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you using just using a Claude or a chat GPT or something?

11:26.682 –> 11:28.323
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you using other things?

11:28.423 –> 11:31.666
[SPEAKER_00]: We’re just using, I mean, there are specific things.

11:31.726 –> 11:38.091
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, sidekick in Shopify is so incredibly useful.

11:38.451 –> 11:42.875
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, particularly for me because I’ve never ever worked on Shopify before.

11:43.435 –> 11:46.458
[SPEAKER_00]: So just being able to say, oh, what’s this?

11:47.018 –> 11:48.219
[SPEAKER_00]: particular data point.

11:48.359 –> 11:49.500
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, how do I use this?

11:49.540 –> 11:50.581
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do I find this?

11:51.061 –> 12:04.151
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and now getting to the point where I’m working with sidekick to do some quite ongoing projects, like really saying, okay, how are we going to forecast our revenue this month?

12:04.671 –> 12:07.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what would you, like, what data points would you look at?

12:07.493 –> 12:08.934
[SPEAKER_00]: What do we need to be thinking about?

12:09.014 –> 12:09.875
[SPEAKER_00]: All of those things?

12:10.375 –> 12:14.278
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, sidekick is amazing and so helpful.

12:14.318 –> 12:15.059
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who’s never

12:16.958 –> 12:17.318
[SPEAKER_01]: nice.

12:17.438 –> 12:34.407
[SPEAKER_01]: And when it comes to the marketing stuff for you, mainly using AI to create graphics, videos, copy, that sort of thing, or you’re using it to analyze reports or to plan strategies, what sort of things are you having it doing for you?

12:35.447 –> 12:55.043
[SPEAKER_00]: all of those things, like sometimes it’s a sounding board, you know, and again, it comes back to that idea of like, how would I work with a team member on this, like particularly, you know, for email, I work with a freelancer who is a Clavio expert who builds and sends my emails for me.

12:55.503 –> 12:57.605
[SPEAKER_00]: But technically, I write them.

12:57.806 –> 12:59.568
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t actually write them myself.

13:00.048 –> 13:01.389
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m working with chatGPT.

13:01.450 –> 13:05.454
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m working on a brief, you know, will evaluate, will go back and forth.

13:05.514 –> 13:16.686
[SPEAKER_00]: And my mother-in-law, who is an ex-English language and English literature teacher, said to me the other day about how much she loved her emails and how beautifully written they were.

13:16.706 –> 13:17.087
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like,

13:17.647 –> 13:17.967
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

13:18.188 –> 13:20.990
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it’s that comfort to hold AI slot thing.

13:21.010 –> 13:40.767
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s like, yeah, if you just say right me an email, then you’re going to get absolute rubbish, but if you’re working continuously with like on improving the the prompt that you’re putting in that you’re giving feedback, it’s having the opportunity to learn then over time you are going to get much better quality outputs.

13:41.701 –> 13:56.428
[SPEAKER_01]: love that thank you site site side by there but I figure the audience will really have wanted to hear that so yeah so back to subscriptions then would I be right in assuming one of the reasons you were bought in was to help bring subscription to the business.

13:57.448 –> 14:06.932
[SPEAKER_00]: So subscription was already live when I joined that we have two core subscription products.

14:07.412 –> 14:10.933
[SPEAKER_00]: One is we call it a seasonal sentence and protect box.

14:11.394 –> 14:18.936
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically every three months we send you a box of different things that care for your clothes this season.

14:18.957 –> 14:19.477
[SPEAKER_00]: So right now.

14:20.357 –> 14:22.439
[SPEAKER_00]: we’re in peak moff season.

14:22.820 –> 14:28.266
[SPEAKER_00]: So we’ll send you very low moff traps to, you know, keep them off the way from your clothes.

14:28.326 –> 14:30.248
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ll send you sent bags.

14:30.288 –> 14:32.250
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ll send you draw liners.

14:32.330 –> 14:35.613
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ll send you a specialist and it weren’t a delicates detergent.

14:35.954 –> 14:42.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we’re sending you the things that you need right now to take care of your clothes for this season.

14:42.781 –> 14:51.070
[SPEAKER_00]: So that launched in April 2025, so that’s been going just over a year, and that’s a quarterly subscription box.

14:51.270 –> 14:57.557
[SPEAKER_00]: And then end of September 2025, we launched every day laundry.

14:57.917 –> 14:58.057
[SPEAKER_00]: So

14:59.018 –> 15:02.621
[SPEAKER_00]: I said how broken the laundry system is.

15:02.901 –> 15:09.706
[SPEAKER_00]: So every day laundry says, okay, I don’t want a big plastic bottle filled with water.

15:09.826 –> 15:10.987
[SPEAKER_00]: How does it work instead?

15:11.007 –> 15:11.768
[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s okay.

15:12.429 –> 15:16.752
[SPEAKER_00]: We’re going to send you two beautiful refillable glass bottles.

15:17.172 –> 15:20.715
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we’re going to send you little detergent and fabric softener.

15:21.155 –> 15:28.720
[SPEAKER_00]: concentrates in the post, in a little letter box size thing, you put them in your glass bottle and you dilute them at home.

15:29.160 –> 15:35.464
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don’t have any of that wastage, you have no artificial thickeners and fillers.

15:35.724 –> 15:37.545
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s all essential oil.

15:37.865 –> 15:42.728
[SPEAKER_00]: Since there’s no microplastics, I didn’t know that, you know, you see all these ads.

15:42.768 –> 15:46.911
[SPEAKER_00]: They’re like, oh, you know, the fabric softness smell lost for two weeks.

15:47.291 –> 15:48.132
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know how they do that?

15:48.612 –> 15:53.593
[SPEAKER_00]: they put little microplastic beads of fragrance that burst over time.

15:53.613 –> 15:56.554
[SPEAKER_00]: So, exactly.

15:56.574 –> 15:59.975
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is what the kind of thing that’s most people don’t know.

16:00.555 –> 16:05.976
[SPEAKER_00]: So, everyday laundry, nice, refillable, completely different way of doing things.

16:06.516 –> 16:08.577
[SPEAKER_00]: And that launched September last year.

16:08.917 –> 16:13.858
[SPEAKER_00]: And those two products now account for most of our revenue.

16:14.318 –> 16:33.363
[SPEAKER_00]: and they are very much two products that there’s a reason why you subscribe to this that, you know, in the case of centre protect, we’re going to send you exactly what you need every quarter and in terms of everyday laundry, it’s like once you’ve bought into the refillable system, you know, the little box of refills just comes, let a box size through the most.

16:34.263 –> 16:36.923
[SPEAKER_01]: Got you, but there are two very different products, aren’t they?

16:36.943 –> 16:38.504
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one is your

16:39.519 –> 16:40.920
[SPEAKER_01]: Reef literally your refills.

16:41.020 –> 16:42.061
[SPEAKER_01]: Your refills are just come.

16:42.101 –> 16:42.922
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don’t have to worry about it.

16:42.942 –> 16:50.209
[SPEAKER_01]: You’ve always got them there, very straightforward boring in the nicest possible way subscription.

16:50.649 –> 16:55.013
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you’ve essentially got much more similar to the Birch book system you’re running.

16:55.073 –> 16:58.616
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s not a surprise what you get, but different things come each quarter.

16:59.157 –> 17:02.700
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s a more elongated subscription piece as well, which

17:03.160 –> 17:11.687
[SPEAKER_01]: I would assume the warehouse have kind of a couple of manic weeks where they’re bringing all the boxes together and they all go out in one massive truck load.

17:12.127 –> 17:17.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas the refills are every day there’s going to be some of those going out depending on how people are managing their subscriptions.

17:17.932 –> 17:28.821
[SPEAKER_01]: So they’re still two very different products to be managing in the business presumably with very different marketing to sell them, get the retention and the consumption going

17:30.850 –> 17:44.369
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely, because there is a customer, particularly you’re more likely to go for sentimentate if you’ve got a lot of high quality clothes, and particularly you’ve got a lot of cashmere and kind of all of that stuff that needs careful care.

17:44.690 –> 17:47.013
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas anyone who washes their clothes,

17:47.634 –> 17:49.215
[SPEAKER_00]: could use everyday laundry.

17:49.855 –> 18:04.905
[SPEAKER_00]: And while they both have a kind of different sustainability angle, they are for slightly, you know, there isn’t overlap between them, but they are slightly different propositions and kind of how you’re talking about them and all of those things are very different.

18:04.945 –> 18:05.245
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think

18:05.605 –> 18:09.690
[SPEAKER_00]: that they both exist for a really specific reason.

18:10.471 –> 18:19.181
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the reason why they kind of dominate our sales is this is there’s a reason why you would subscribe to this product.

18:19.581 –> 18:25.428
[SPEAKER_00]: The other things that we do like you know you might you know for example we’ve got a great spray

18:25.808 –> 18:27.389
[SPEAKER_00]: that means you don’t have to iron your clothes.

18:27.409 –> 18:28.370
[SPEAKER_00]: We call it crease release.

18:28.470 –> 18:30.371
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s like, you know, don’t need to iron your clothes.

18:30.391 –> 18:32.432
[SPEAKER_00]: Just give it a quick spritz and a stretch out.

18:32.472 –> 18:33.433
[SPEAKER_00]: And it looks great.

18:33.733 –> 18:35.554
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be the kind of person who uses that every day.

18:35.614 –> 18:38.857
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be the kind of person who uses it once in a blue moon.

18:39.577 –> 18:41.959
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s very different when we’re selling single product.

18:41.979 –> 18:46.321
[SPEAKER_00]: To when subscription is like, no, these two products is the reason why you were subscribed.

18:46.642 –> 18:49.784
[SPEAKER_00]: And there’s a reason why you’ll continue to subscribe to them.

18:49.924 –> 18:54.527
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you know, kind of from a business and marketing perspective, they are very, very different.

18:55.372 –> 18:56.013
[SPEAKER_01]: keeps you busy.

18:58.654 –> 19:09.482
[SPEAKER_01]: So with those three different, we think we’ve kind of got the discovery box, we’ve got the quarterly box, we’ve got the refills and then we’ve got the one off products.

19:11.316 –> 19:13.677
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes your life as the CMO.

19:14.277 –> 19:23.121
[SPEAKER_01]: More interesting, so I might say more complicated, so I might say, with potentially slightly different customer sectors for each different marketing cadences for each.

19:23.261 –> 19:30.204
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you work out where, you know, how to keep your focus on all three, I suppose?

19:30.224 –> 19:31.945
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m guessing, you know, it’s not like this week.

19:32.005 –> 19:34.186
[SPEAKER_01]: We do boxes, this week, we do refills.

19:34.626 –> 19:38.968
[SPEAKER_01]: But how do you keep them all front of mind when they’re so, such different beasts?

19:41.821 –> 20:00.327
[SPEAKER_00]: that’s part of the reason why I enjoy this challenge because it is like these different strands that you’re kind of pulling in from time to time where there are jobs where I’ve worked where it feels like there’s an annual cycle, you’re like,

20:00.927 –> 20:09.411
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and we do this in January and we do this in February and we do this in March and and once you’ve been through that cycle a couple of times, it very quickly gets boring.

20:09.911 –> 20:17.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas what I like about what I’m doing is like, there’s, and particularly because we are such a small team, there’s always more that we could be doing.

20:17.374 –> 20:21.676
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s always, you know, kind of, like, you think of something like email automations.

20:21.916 –> 20:26.138
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s always, always more layers to that that we could be doing.

20:26.178 –> 20:29.059
[SPEAKER_00]: We could always be fine tuning it and making more sophisticated

20:30.961 –> 20:37.396
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, that’s actually part of the appeal is I get to do something new and different every day.

20:38.409 –> 20:38.709
[SPEAKER_01]: nice.

20:38.949 –> 20:45.852
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other, I’ve just actually subscription isn’t a new thing for you in this role, because it’s very much the thing you’ve returned to.

20:45.912 –> 20:52.414
[SPEAKER_01]: And guys, if you could listen to if you could see Janist now, she’s grinning from ear to ear about being back in subscription.

20:52.434 –> 20:54.735
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there’s nothing small about that smile.

20:55.056 –> 21:02.879
[SPEAKER_01]: But the new thing I suppose about this role is it’s the first time you’ve really worked to the brand who care about sustainability in a big way.

21:03.039 –> 21:06.240
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m sure many of the other businesses you worked for didn’t ignore it, but

21:06.640 –> 21:10.304
[SPEAKER_01]: but it’s the first time you’ve worked at one which has been eco as such.

21:10.664 –> 21:13.507
[SPEAKER_01]: How have you found that to be different?

21:15.041 –> 21:17.382
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it’s really interesting.

21:17.402 –> 21:23.864
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I’ve heard from a lot of my colleagues in e-commerce, kind of similar stories.

21:23.964 –> 21:29.386
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s just like, you would think that e-co should be the primary message.

21:29.866 –> 21:38.409
[SPEAKER_00]: But it’s always, no, it’s got to be convenience, or it’s got to be, we keep your clothes looking you for longer, or whatever it might be.

21:38.849 –> 21:42.710
[SPEAKER_00]: And the e-co is the thing that underpins it.

21:43.090 –> 21:49.972
[SPEAKER_00]: like the thing about microplastics, it’s like, you know, I feel like just telling people, do you know your fabric softeners got microplastics in?

21:50.412 –> 21:55.634
[SPEAKER_00]: Should make everyone go like, ah, no, I need to switch straight away, but it doesn’t.

21:56.674 –> 21:57.594
[SPEAKER_01]: Indeed, indeed.

21:57.674 –> 21:58.635
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s kind of weird, isn’t it?

21:59.595 –> 22:04.516
[SPEAKER_01]: The there was a brief window when sustainability could be a USP.

22:05.397 –> 22:06.557
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it’s more of a

22:08.049 –> 22:24.720
[SPEAKER_01]: not a tickboxing exercise, but a lot of the brands we’ve had on, when I’ve asked this question, it’s been, we talk about how great the product is up front, and then once we’ve got the customer, then we educate them about the sustainability afterwards as kind of a retention metric.

22:24.780 –> 22:28.583
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that how you’re seeing it fit in at a closed doctor?

22:29.497 –> 22:34.460
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the problem with laundry is it’s total system one thinking.

22:34.761 –> 22:38.884
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s the thing that you just never would consider changing your habit.

22:39.184 –> 22:42.906
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to give you a reason to change your habit.

22:43.006 –> 22:48.911
[SPEAKER_00]: And just your clothes are cleaner, they smell fresher, they stay looking new for longer.

22:49.351 –> 22:51.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all of those things are important.

22:52.473 –> 22:58.821
[SPEAKER_00]: but you’ve got to be bought into no I actually want to do things differently to how I’ve done them historically.

22:59.262 –> 23:10.276
[SPEAKER_00]: So for us, while it’s not the only thing or the primary thing, it’s a really important part of the acquisition journey.

23:11.297 –> 23:11.637
[SPEAKER_01]: got you.

23:11.877 –> 23:18.000
[SPEAKER_01]: And looking to the next nine months or longer or shorter, completely up to you.

23:18.340 –> 23:22.642
[SPEAKER_01]: But what are you looking forward to and you excited about coming up at closed doctor?

23:24.924 –> 23:29.586
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned earlier the idea of like the sentence and protect the quarterly box.

23:29.766 –> 23:33.348
[SPEAKER_00]: It being like, oh, it’s got that surprise and delight element.

23:33.528 –> 23:37.590
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s something that we’ve always wanted to bring to everyday laundry.

23:37.610 –> 23:40.192
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s always been part of the plan.

23:40.772 –> 23:47.755
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have just launched our first limited edition seasonal laundry scent.

23:48.656 –> 23:50.577
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is really exciting.

23:53.398 –> 24:09.828
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for a five more in the pipeline for the next kind of year or so, and I’m just so excited to bring some of that surprise and delight element to what seems like quite a dull category.

24:11.809 –> 24:16.612
[SPEAKER_02]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

24:16.732 –> 24:18.033
[SPEAKER_02]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

24:24.692 –> 24:26.873
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s time for the top tips round.

24:29.455 –> 24:34.377
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me an list of some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

24:34.417 –> 24:36.098
[SPEAKER_01]: Janice, are you ready for the top tips?

24:36.718 –> 24:37.018
[SPEAKER_00]: I am.

24:37.559 –> 24:38.799
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the book top tip.

24:38.959 –> 24:43.822
[SPEAKER_01]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better.

24:43.942 –> 24:45.463
[SPEAKER_01]: Which book would you recommend?

24:46.577 –> 25:02.825
[SPEAKER_00]: I would choose Adam Grant’s think again because it does literally make you think about those decisions that you make on autopilot and how to do things better, and I think everyone could use that thinking.

25:03.826 –> 25:13.470
[SPEAKER_01]: A bit like laundry, apart from everything else, but yeah, traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press

25:15.307 –> 25:17.389
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m going to go for PR right now.

25:17.529 –> 25:31.739
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that’s just something that, particularly with the swing back, I think more businesses are thinking about how do we actually educate people about what we do and why they should be interested in us and all of those things.

25:31.799 –> 25:39.405
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I’m hoping to see a resurgence in PR, I think, particularly as people are thinking about optimizing

25:40.085 –> 25:50.962
[SPEAKER_00]: for AI agents and, you know, kind of AI search and all of those things, how you position yourself in the marketplace, how people talk about you is increasingly important.

25:51.730 –> 25:55.772
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s kind of both an anti-AI tactic and a pro-AI tactic.

25:55.792 –> 25:58.453
[SPEAKER_01]: If you see what I mean, it’s like we want the citations.

25:58.493 –> 26:01.915
[SPEAKER_01]: We want AI to really understand who we are because we put the right message out there.

26:02.275 –> 26:05.897
[SPEAKER_01]: But there’s also the, well, how do we build trust in the world of AI?

26:05.917 –> 26:11.299
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we go back to getting featured in the pillars of the fourth estate, essentially.

26:11.419 –> 26:15.501
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it’s a good recommendation though.

26:15.521 –> 26:16.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, tooltop tip.

26:16.722 –> 26:25.485
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone app, or just a way of working, is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day-to-day?

26:26.185 –> 26:30.106
[SPEAKER_00]: I’ve already mentioned it, but yeah, sidekick on Shopify.

26:30.226 –> 26:33.407
[SPEAKER_00]: I call him SID, and I’m like, you know, just…

26:33.687 –> 26:54.375
[SPEAKER_00]: earlier we were like okay what proportion of sales of this of one of our subscription products comes from people who bought from us before versus first time customers and yeah sure I could have set up a report and sliced it and diced it but I could just our sidekick what’s this and it gave me the answer straight away so yeah I genuinely think it’s a brilliant tool.

26:55.123 –> 26:56.485
[SPEAKER_01]: converted you to Shopify.

26:57.446 –> 27:00.389
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know how that’s a big deal for me.

27:00.909 –> 27:01.410
[SPEAKER_01]: Big deal.

27:01.870 –> 27:03.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the carbon top tip.

27:03.753 –> 27:07.577
[SPEAKER_01]: What’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

27:08.613 –> 27:33.362
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what we’ve done with everyday laundry is quite an interesting proposition more widely for e-commerce is like, what are you sending and what do you actually need to send your customer is quite a big mindset shift for a lot of businesses being like actually what do they actually need and what do they have at home already?

27:34.125 –> 27:39.830
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how much air and water do we actually need to put into boxes and ship around the world?

27:40.330 –> 27:45.515
[SPEAKER_01]: And what’s interesting is you get little bits of it in the cleaning and laundry space on the waterfront.

27:46.236 –> 27:48.958
[SPEAKER_01]: You get none of it in the drink space.

27:50.379 –> 27:56.063
[SPEAKER_01]: None at all in the drink space, bring on the round cans and the air and the water inside them with, you know?

27:56.083 –> 28:02.687
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that’s why I think what Lalo does is so brilliant, it’s like, you know, that they’ve said boxed wine.

28:02.707 –> 28:18.117
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s like, well, you’ve got that weight of those glass bottles, you’ve got the waste of space, all of those things, and to just actually say boxed wine is a really fantastic proposition if it actually had decent wine in it, which is what they do so well.

28:18.802 –> 28:25.685
[SPEAKER_01]: And with less waste because you don’t have a horrible end of bottle to deal with because it came out glass by glass.

28:25.865 –> 28:27.985
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, love Lalo.

28:28.185 –> 28:35.048
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Janice, before we say goodbye, could you please let the listeners know where they can find you and your business on the web and social media please?

28:35.593 –> 28:39.034
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, we are closed, hyphendoctor.com.

28:39.514 –> 28:43.955
[SPEAKER_00]: Please do come and try our 60 day trial of everyday laundry.

28:44.255 –> 28:49.437
[SPEAKER_00]: We’re so convinced that you will be delighted with it that we will give you your money back if you’re not.

28:50.337 –> 28:51.197
[SPEAKER_01]: There we go, everyone.

28:51.277 –> 28:53.718
[SPEAKER_01]: Good deployment for money back guarantee there as well.

28:54.478 –> 28:56.939
[SPEAKER_01]: Janice, thank you so much for being on the show again.

28:57.139 –> 28:59.239
[SPEAKER_01]: As always, super insightful.

28:59.379 –> 29:00.159
[SPEAKER_01]: You’re a brilliant guest.

29:00.179 –> 29:01.220
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here.

29:01.720 –> 29:02.740
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, Chloe.

29:08.634 –> 29:35.600
[SPEAKER_01]: so lots to think about in the world of subscriptions there and how to get involved with those those different types of subscriptions are making sure you are creating the consumption of the product in order to get the retention and the recommendations and all those kind of good things as well plus some really interesting insights on how Janice is successfully and practically using AI in the business too loads to get you all thinking in this episode and doing too I think.

29:36.120 –> 29:55.628
[SPEAKER_01]: To get your hands on the notes from this episode including those top tips and links to what we mentioned then head over to ecommercemasterplanned.com You can also use our direct episode short links just put ECMP dot info forward slash the number of this episode into your album and you’ll go straight to the right page on the site When you get there, please add yourself to our email list.

29:56.288 –> 30:07.833
[SPEAKER_01]: If you liked this episode, then make sure you check out Episode 585 where I’m chatting to cleaning products, seeps, head of growth about scaling to 10 million.

30:07.853 –> 30:14.196
[SPEAKER_01]: So seeps is another eco cleaning laundry products business and we’re chatting at how they scale to 8 million.

30:14.216 –> 30:15.397
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s really interesting episode.

30:15.977 –> 30:17.478
[SPEAKER_01]: He brings some really cool insights.

30:17.918 –> 30:27.713
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want more on cleaning products and home care products and all that kind of good stuff, then ECMP.info-zashhome will take you to our page that lists all of those episodes on the website.

30:28.314 –> 30:32.379
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in to this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

30:32.860 –> 30:45.204
[SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

30:45.784 –> 30:51.386
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

30:51.786 –> 30:54.587
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

30:57.880 –> 31:01.229
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

31:01.650 –> 31:06.542
[SPEAKER_02]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.