00:00.572 –> 00:09.482
[SPEAKER_00]: Ever since I started the business because I had no marketing budget, I focused heavily on SEO even today, like most of our traffic still comes from organic.

00:09.702 –> 00:12.806
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s so expensive to acquire customers through Metal and Google now.

00:13.407 –> 00:20.255
[SPEAKER_00]: You need that underlying baseline traffic that’s just finding you through Google or wherever I think.

00:22.963 –> 00:25.347
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

00:25.888 –> 00:29.974
[SPEAKER_02]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

00:30.495 –> 00:36.023
[SPEAKER_02]: Cutting through the hide-off to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond.

00:36.283 –> 00:38.347
[SPEAKER_02]: Here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

00:41.583 –> 00:42.823
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.

00:42.843 –> 00:43.884
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.

00:43.944 –> 00:47.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

00:48.145 –> 00:52.266
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we’re talking shoes, but we’re talking all full lot more than shoes.

00:52.646 –> 01:02.048
[SPEAKER_01]: We are talking about marketing to a niche that has a real problem that you are fixing in a great way and how you leverage that.

01:02.088 –> 01:08.229
[SPEAKER_01]: We’ll be talking about referrals, we’ll be talking about community, we’re talking about customer research.

01:11.530 –> 01:21.376
[SPEAKER_01]: affiliate schemes and influencer schemes and leveraging experts in that arena to help you build PR and to help you build sales.

01:22.177 –> 01:29.701
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of stuff going on in this one and do, I know I say this every time, make sure you listen to the top tips, but the tooltop tip in particular this week.

01:30.261 –> 01:35.225
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess is running through the four key tools across team comms.

01:36.085 –> 01:44.131
[SPEAKER_01]: returns email and reviews and loyalty that she uses and giving some very honest feedback about why she’s chosen to use the ones she’s chosen.

01:44.151 –> 01:55.659
[SPEAKER_01]: So well worth listening through to the end there and she’ll also be talking about how they’re going about the circular economy embracing as well loads in this episode coming up great guest.

01:56.059 –> 01:57.040
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you listen to the end.

02:03.045 –> 02:05.107
[SPEAKER_01]: and now to introduce our special guest.

02:05.508 –> 02:08.791
[SPEAKER_01]: Jennifer Bailey is the CEO founder at Calla Shoes.

02:08.992 –> 02:12.515
[SPEAKER_01]: Sellers of women shoes for bunions, wide feet and problem feet.

02:12.976 –> 02:20.404
[SPEAKER_01]: Founded in 2016, they now sell via their Shopify store or on under on track for £2m in sales this year.

02:20.444 –> 02:21.145
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello Jenny.

02:21.625 –> 02:24.028
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello lovely to be here, Chloe.

02:24.348 –> 02:25.590
[SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant to have you here.

02:25.931 –> 02:35.945
[SPEAKER_01]: I always love a guest who’s focused on a niche and you have one fascinating niche So it’s really cool to explore your business, but before we get into that, how did you end up in e-commerce?

02:35.985 –> 02:39.551
[SPEAKER_01]: Is Kalashuse your first foray or were you in the industry before that?

02:40.677 –> 02:50.446
[SPEAKER_00]: So before Calla Shoes, I had never owned my own business, so I owned my own business before, and no one in my family had had their own business before.

02:50.846 –> 02:55.130
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is all that we knew to me, and I knew nothing about footwear or fashion either.

02:55.750 –> 02:58.152
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was all quite new.

02:58.433 –> 03:00.654
[SPEAKER_00]: The only thing I did have is that I’d background

03:01.575 –> 03:02.295
[SPEAKER_00]: is marketing.

03:02.395 –> 03:08.157
[SPEAKER_00]: So my career up till starting the business at 36 was in marketing.

03:08.197 –> 03:09.958
[SPEAKER_00]: So at least I had that.

03:10.078 –> 03:13.919
[SPEAKER_00]: So I didn’t know how to make shoes, but I had an idea of how I wanted to sell them.

03:14.499 –> 03:16.560
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn’t in E-Con before before.

03:16.620 –> 03:20.261
[SPEAKER_00]: I was actually head of marketing at E. So we did like student recruitment,

03:20.821 –> 03:26.706
[SPEAKER_00]: marketing brand, investor brand, guardianship, that kind of thing.

03:26.966 –> 03:37.254
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn’t really do eat e-commerce such at the university, but I was part of my role was looking after the university website, making sure it’s on brand and looking at the customer journeys, that kind of thing.

03:37.714 –> 03:42.758
[SPEAKER_00]: But it’s a bit new, digital marketing wasn’t, but e-commerce totally get it.

03:42.778 –> 03:44.799
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think having looked at your business, it makes sense.

03:44.839 –> 03:45.400
[SPEAKER_01]: You had that

03:46.480 –> 04:05.512
[SPEAKER_01]: bigger marketing experience, the top-level marketing experience rather than nitty-gritty experience you started because your business does a really great job with the top and stuff, which if I know a lot of people coming into e-commerce get very into all the nitty-gritty, but the bigger brand, customer feeling, emotional part gets left behind.

04:06.212 –> 04:10.134
[SPEAKER_01]: So this business was your first journey into e-commerce.

04:10.315 –> 04:12.236
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m tell us a bit about how it is now,

04:14.497 –> 04:15.858
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

04:16.658 –> 04:20.939
[SPEAKER_00]: So 2016 was the first year started selling.

04:21.019 –> 04:30.203
[SPEAKER_00]: So if we went, I went live with pre-orders in September 2016 and then the shoes didn’t actually arrive until like November, because then we did pre-orders.

04:31.223 –> 04:32.204
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, 10 years.

04:32.824 –> 04:33.704
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s bonkers, isn’t it?

04:33.864 –> 04:34.825
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s bonkers, yeah.

04:35.225 –> 04:35.525
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.

04:36.118 –> 04:41.541
[SPEAKER_00]: I would, in some respects, it’s gone really, really fast and in all those, it’s gone quite slowly.

04:41.601 –> 05:01.810
[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s always, but I judge it on my kids because I was pregnant when I started the business, because it took about two years before we actually had products sell, you know, just kind of getting everything, all the prototyping done because it’s, because it’s product, you know, that that isn’t a quick turnaround and it’s because it’s a product in a niche,

05:05.372 –> 05:07.294
[SPEAKER_00]: but yeah, so I and she’s 11 now.

05:07.574 –> 05:12.578
[SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of like that’s how I understand how all my business is, but then I told her.

05:12.958 –> 05:14.079
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes two of a sudden.

05:14.800 –> 05:15.240
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

05:15.720 –> 05:18.723
[SPEAKER_00]: It comments out here and it’s changed so much.

05:18.743 –> 05:27.350
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I always say to people that if I had a year off, I would be coming back and going, what is going on?

05:27.510 –> 05:29.872
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is actually going on right now?

05:30.652 –> 05:32.672
[SPEAKER_00]: everything is changing at such a pace.

05:33.373 –> 05:36.153
[SPEAKER_00]: I even faster than it has done before.

05:36.473 –> 05:55.057
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it doesn’t really matter that I don’t really know what I’m doing because I don’t know what I’m doing but it doesn’t really matter if you feel like you’re winging it because everybody is at the moment because everything is changing at such a pace so yeah I love e-commerce and I specifically chose

06:01.159 –> 06:14.549
[SPEAKER_00]: easier, and somewhat is I think, where I think about B2BA always get a little bit like, or would I want to talk to about it or something, that kind of thing is very, what if it’s easy, I think, to go, I’m just going to sell shoes to whoever wants to buy them in the world, I found that an easier concept.

06:15.029 –> 06:22.815
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m completely in that camp with you, but I love you say about how it’s a benefit, not know what you’re doing because actually no one else does,

06:25.237 –> 06:40.034
[SPEAKER_01]: lesson to learn in e-commerce that if you try and be the know it all you will miss stuff you know because it’s the platforms are changing all the time the way the customers behave is changing a little bit all the time what they respond to changes and you have to be you have to have this constant

06:40.915 –> 06:44.538
[SPEAKER_01]: fascination with it and wanting to learn more and wanting to find out things.

06:44.558 –> 06:49.243
[SPEAKER_01]: So as soon as you soon as you start being trying to be a know-it-all, done for, absolutely done for.

06:49.263 –> 06:54.127
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the basic fundamentals of marketing still stand, they don’t go anywhere.

06:54.868 –> 06:58.391
[SPEAKER_00]: And the basic fundamentals of how to win a business don’t go anywhere.

06:58.711 –> 07:04.796
[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of how to acquire new customers online, that’s like, that’s an ever-changing landscape.

07:05.657 –> 07:06.377
[SPEAKER_01]: very, very much.

07:06.597 –> 07:08.178
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let’s talk about the business now.

07:08.899 –> 07:11.079
[SPEAKER_01]: Where are you in the world and where are you selling to?

07:12.140 –> 07:27.067
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I live in the Northwest of England near town called Warrington, actually living Newtony Willows, no one’s heard of Newtony Willows, but if you’re all like me, then you’ll have heard of Rick Hassley, and this is the town that he’s from.

07:28.828 –> 07:35.654
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s our only claim to fame, and myself and my whole team work remotely, we don’t have apprentices.

07:35.874 –> 07:43.941
[SPEAKER_00]: We use a 3PL that is also in the north of England, we have a 3PL in America as well, but my team are all over the place.

07:45.242 –> 08:10.561
[SPEAKER_00]: we sell globally and we have done some day one and again that wasn’t it was a conscious decision because I thought well I’m just going to sell the shoes to whoever wants to buy them and I don’t really care where they’re from so I didn’t think particularly geographically at first and that’s because my marketing strategy to start with was I needed to do as much as I could for with no money which is very different from working at university because I had loads of money

08:14.064 –> 08:27.091
[SPEAKER_00]: and so my marketing reach was done mainly via socials, SEO and forums and it’s quite hard to you know, regionally geographically, you know, go down in place in those areas.

08:27.571 –> 08:39.058
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we launched our pre-orders and from the kind of the seeding work that I’d done before, you know, intensive getting the brand concept out there in the year or so prior to the launch,

08:39.898 –> 08:44.340
[SPEAKER_00]: people will like from kind of do America or whatever and just same our buy shoes.

08:44.380 –> 08:46.141
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it’s like I’ll send you my shoes.

08:49.123 –> 08:52.405
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s what that’s what the story is and that’s what the post is about.

08:52.925 –> 08:58.628
[SPEAKER_00]: So we sell globally but at the moment the split is around 40% U.S.

09:00.870 –> 09:03.872
[SPEAKER_00]: 50% UK and 10% rest of the world.

09:04.372 –> 09:09.596
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say rest of the world, that’s still mostly Australia, Canada, Europe.

09:10.036 –> 09:16.521
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have a smattering of customers that have found as via Instagram, I think, or TikTok or whatever.

09:17.281 –> 09:20.544
[SPEAKER_00]: And we’ve sold into 92 countries in the world.

09:20.564 –> 09:21.624
[SPEAKER_00]: That way.

09:22.325 –> 09:25.167
[SPEAKER_01]: But two big markets in the UK in the US for you.

09:25.947 –> 09:29.990
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the US was bigger until Donald Trump came in.

09:30.630 –> 09:39.576
[SPEAKER_00]: It was overtaking the UK, and it was overtaking it at a pace, but then the tariff situation came in and it’s ticking a bit of a dip.

09:40.236 –> 09:43.658
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the T word, the worst word in Ecomas.

09:43.899 –> 09:45.800
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I’m sorry.

09:46.320 –> 09:50.943
[SPEAKER_00]: Tariff’s in Trump, Trump, Tariff’s and Dominimists.

09:51.003 –> 09:53.445
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are like the three ways, but yeah, Trump got.

09:54.662 –> 09:56.023
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s a whole separate podcast.

09:56.963 –> 10:07.069
[SPEAKER_01]: So something we haven’t yet talked about, Jen, is your product, which is click key to the success of your business is the product and the customer base you’re selling to.

10:07.149 –> 10:08.390
[SPEAKER_01]: So tell us about the product.

10:09.312 –> 10:30.580
[SPEAKER_00]: So the whole reason I ended up in this niche and why I started the business is because I suffered from a folk condition called bunions and many years ago when I was getting married, I suddenly realized that I wasn’t going to be able to find a really pretty pair of wedding shoes because I’ve got bunions and up until that point I’ve kind of

10:31.400 –> 10:38.862
[SPEAKER_00]: made done with trainers and augbutes and the odd pair of shoes that I could find that, you know, I could fit into comfortably.

10:39.362 –> 10:45.783
[SPEAKER_00]: But wedding days are kind of about quite specific, you know, shoes, I think, or for me they were anyway.

10:46.223 –> 10:51.205
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had a very specific look in mind and a very beautiful dress getting married in Italy.

10:51.225 –> 10:57.106
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had an idea of what shoes I wanted and then I realised that I wasn’t going to be able to find them because my feet were weird.

10:57.686 –> 10:59.287
[SPEAKER_00]: Or my feet wouldn’t fit into conventional

11:01.767 –> 11:21.454
[SPEAKER_00]: So I started looking online for hours on end and I just thought maybe someone in Australia is doing it or someone in China or do you know if somebody might just be doing something for some bunions and I’d buy them I was happy to pay and buy them for words that they came from but I couldn’t find in him So I decided then I was going to start my own business one day

11:22.694 –> 11:38.725
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say that it was a throwaway thought throwaway comment to my husband, but when it came to a shoved situation and a shoved situation which is where a lot of women I speak to start businesses because they get to a point in their lives where they go.

11:39.245 –> 11:41.867
[SPEAKER_00]: this is the best solution for me in my lifestyle right now.

11:42.468 –> 11:53.718
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was, and I’ve been working at the University for a while, I’ve worked more way up to acting head of marketing, but then and we had a new boss, it wasn’t particularly nice, it was just a really light ring.

11:54.159 –> 11:55.019
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s been like my team.

11:55.480 –> 12:00.604
[SPEAKER_00]: It got me as all we’ve done, and I found out I was pregnant with my second child at the same time.

12:01.405 –> 12:03.886
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was a lot, you know, at that time.

12:03.906 –> 12:06.968
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought, right, okay, that was the idea I had years ago.

12:06.988 –> 12:11.631
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m going to, I’m going to see if I can make it fly while I’m on maternity leave, which is what I did.

12:12.111 –> 12:17.674
[SPEAKER_00]: So the shoes are, that’s a story behind it, but the shoes and cells are designed with bunions in mind.

12:18.695 –> 12:26.399
[SPEAKER_00]: It has evolved over the 10 years that we’ve been trading just because of how we’ve responded to, you know,

12:28.540 –> 12:29.360
[SPEAKER_00]: and customer needs.

12:30.180 –> 12:50.445
[SPEAKER_00]: We know from our own research that the majority of our customers buy for bunions, wide feet, and hammer toes, and there’s like the three main complaints that people have, which is why they’ve gone off on Google, trying to find something desperation, or they’ve seen our add-on thought, oh, I didn’t realise there was a solution out there for my problem.

12:51.125 –> 12:53.947
[SPEAKER_00]: At the time of launching, there was really no one else doing what we’re doing now.

12:53.967 –> 13:06.734
[SPEAKER_00]: There were quite a few and Bunions were still very niche, but there’s lots of brands out there that are really leaning into comfort and you know, all of them in Telbeport, sold of their fashion reports.

13:06.814 –> 13:09.976
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s very much going back down that route.

13:09.996 –> 13:15.339
[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s quite a different footwear landscape to where it was when I first came up with the idea.

13:15.999 –> 13:31.370
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I think about, and I’m lucky enough not to have bunions or a foot complaint like that, but I think about friends who do, and it was like, it was a secret, you know, through through the 90s and the 90s and the 2010s, you didn’t mention it.

13:31.730 –> 13:44.519
[SPEAKER_01]: As you said, you may do, you found, as a solution, you’d find the, you know, the clerks wide fitting that you could just about get away within the correct line up of the sandal straps or whatever it was, you could manage to make work.

13:45.420 –> 13:58.850
[SPEAKER_01]: But now in the 2020s, it feels like consumers are celebrating their unusual elements about themselves and finding a good solution to it rather than a make-do solution, which must be a good opportunity.

13:58.890 –> 14:09.857
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, it means there’s more competitors coming to the market, but it must be a good opportunity for consumers and now not sitting around going, well, I just have to make do, no one will ever solve this for me.

14:09.877 –> 14:12.299
[SPEAKER_01]: They’re now expecting that solution and when they’re looking for it, they’re

14:13.932 –> 14:14.612
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

14:14.812 –> 14:28.259
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it’s a bit of a push-and-pull situation where it’s being driven by consumers, but also the fact that it, I mean, I’m not going to say it’s easy setting up your own business because it isn’t and definitely wouldn’t suggest going into footwear to anybody.

14:30.820 –> 14:55.630
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, really commerce, you can kind of just settle your own business when you’re bedroom and you can go, there’s a confidence in the world now about going, we don’t have to do things in the same way, we don’t need millions of pounds set of a business week and we can get one going on, you know, a small amount of money and I think that the fact that there was so many amazing women in particular that are coming up with fantastic solutions,

14:56.730 –> 15:02.012
[SPEAKER_00]: and being able to just drive those businesses forward on their own without needing tons of money to do it.

15:02.032 –> 15:04.713
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that’s giving consumers much more choice.

15:04.733 –> 15:07.674
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it’s great that there’s more choice than ever out there.

15:07.694 –> 15:11.756
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it is this fact that it’s easier to settle a business.

15:12.576 –> 15:33.149
[SPEAKER_00]: there’s a lot more support for if you want to set up a business, like this confidence there’s set up a business because there’s so many other people that are doing it, you know, and it’s all headline kind of grabbing stuff and entrepreneurs are getting headlines more than ever and the fact that consumers are saying, right, okay, that they’re probably more likely to go, then must be somebody out there doing this, do you know what I mean?

15:33.289 –> 15:40.354
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get a little bit of a customer saying, I had had this idea years ago, and I was just about to set the business up and then I saw that you’d already done

15:45.617 –> 15:50.922
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that the emotion is, oh, thank goodness, not, oh damn it, no, it’s like someone else’s done it.

15:51.042 –> 15:52.163
[SPEAKER_01]: I can get the shoes I want.

15:52.663 –> 15:57.788
[SPEAKER_01]: So clearly, it certainly seems like you have a very good relationship with your customers.

15:57.928 –> 16:01.111
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s community a part of something that you focus on for growth.

16:02.037 –> 16:07.201
[SPEAKER_00]: one of my core values, like personally, so which is a company value as well, is really put in the customer first.

16:07.221 –> 16:15.446
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, and I know that those are companies say that, but without my marketing background, understands fundamentally that without the customers, we don’t have a business.

16:16.047 –> 16:20.310
[SPEAKER_00]: And I’m not here to tell our customers what they want, that doesn’t work that way.

16:20.330 –> 16:24.613
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realize that really, really on, because I thought people wanted high heels.

16:24.833 –> 16:28.676
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a easy example, because that’s what I struggle finding.

16:29.336 –> 16:37.441
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I was doing all my research prior to launching, my customers are like, what actually, what we want is just a plain black kind of flat tube.

16:38.101 –> 16:43.205
[SPEAKER_00]: We can word it, say, as well as the heels, we want the heels, but we just want an everyday shoe.

16:43.225 –> 16:46.146
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn’t realize it was as much of an issue as an issue.

16:47.307 –> 16:48.629
[SPEAKER_00]: and until our customers told me that.

16:48.689 –> 16:53.015
[SPEAKER_00]: So, ever since then, and then that’s she was the common best seller, you know what I mean?

16:53.035 –> 16:58.982
[SPEAKER_00]: So, ever since then, I’ve used our customers, which is not used as news of terrible word, isn’t it?

16:59.283 –> 17:02.266
[SPEAKER_00]: I’ve used customer data and customer feedback to drive.

17:02.847 –> 17:03.947
[SPEAKER_00]: what we produce for them.

17:04.007 –> 17:10.809
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they say they want low heels but produce low heels, if they say they want, you know, certain colours will produce that colour.

17:10.829 –> 17:24.893
[SPEAKER_00]: So I frequently speak to the customers on the phone, I have a customer service as manager who deals with like day-to-day stuff, but I quite like to get on the phone and speak to them and take calls and do calls because you can get into those more in-depth conversations with women.

17:25.593 –> 17:51.926
[SPEAKER_00]: When you say to them, you know, it’s journey and the founder, they normally know me, they normally see me as part of the customer journey of what they’ve seen on the website or they found out online, that I was journey and then they’re really open to give feedback and detail feedback about their specific foot conditions, what’s out there isn’t working for them, you know, and it’s, if you’re online, that’s not physical, but it’s as close to physical as you’re

17:53.587 –> 18:00.971
[SPEAKER_00]: feedback from customers is really, really important, which is why I don’t believe in sticking to AI, chat and email.

18:01.011 –> 18:08.035
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that if you want to get to know your customers, you have to have either a face to face dialogue or at least something over the phone.

18:08.816 –> 18:16.220
[SPEAKER_01]: You can learn so much from the data and from AI trolling through the email responses or whatever else, but

18:17.160 –> 18:20.903
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do, you can’t just go quantitative, you have to go qualitative as well.

18:20.943 –> 18:40.259
[SPEAKER_01]: And that’s those one-off questions where you get into the nitty-gritty of something in its sparks and idea that wasn’t coming through on the data, but then you can maybe back up from the data where you get that real feeling from the customer is so crucial, especially when when your business is so, so allied to solving a problem for them.

18:41.053 –> 18:46.476
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and really understanding what makes them make their purchasing decisions.

18:46.496 –> 18:49.137
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I’m not going to say we’ve got a perfect and our website at all.

18:49.397 –> 18:52.619
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we’ve not because every time I have a conversation, I have another idea.

18:52.639 –> 18:53.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?

18:53.420 –> 18:55.060
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, we need to feed this in.

18:55.120 –> 18:58.882
[SPEAKER_00]: And our customer journey and our website is a big piece of work we’re doing right now.

18:58.902 –> 18:59.763
[SPEAKER_00]: We’re in the middle of it.

18:59.823 –> 19:03.145
[SPEAKER_00]: And we’re going to be making some big changes to the site in the next couple of months.

19:03.865 –> 19:13.973
[SPEAKER_00]: because it’s always choice out there and because of the price point of our shoes, we make the shoes in Portugal, so they’re expensive to buy in the first place, so we have to sell them at a certain price point.

19:14.313 –> 19:28.845
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, I chose that because levers and suites that we buy really soft, they’re the best material for the foot conditions that I found and the quality is there as well

19:33.525 –> 19:37.927
[SPEAKER_01]: So there’s a big part on your website, Jen, about collaborations.

19:38.847 –> 19:43.909
[SPEAKER_01]: And it strikes me, you do quite a lot of different collaborations, and maybe this is a way of gaining customers as well.

19:43.929 –> 19:46.110
[SPEAKER_01]: So what’s your approach to collaboration?

19:46.130 –> 19:47.831
[SPEAKER_01]: What does collaboration mean for color shoes?

19:49.024 –> 20:02.387
[SPEAKER_00]: This is another area that we’re looking at developing, but at the moment what we found was that podiatris who see feet that day and day out, obviously, for specialists, were recommending us to their customers.

20:02.427 –> 20:15.471
[SPEAKER_00]: So they’d found out about us through various routes, you know, LinkedIn, where I’ve connected with people through exhibited at a specialist health, for health trade show,

20:16.631 –> 20:23.694
[SPEAKER_00]: and then podiatris or customers had gone in and spoken to them and saying, what do you think of this brand and they’ve gone away and done their own research?

20:24.194 –> 20:30.356
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I found is that podiatris want to be able to recommend footwear to their patients, because it’s part of the service.

20:30.376 –> 20:34.038
[SPEAKER_00]: So they’re obviously there to help fix any ailment or, you know,

20:35.438 –> 20:36.739
[SPEAKER_00]: insults and all that kind of stuff.

20:37.120 –> 20:50.550
[SPEAKER_00]: But the patient might come in, client might come in and say, and I’ve got bunions, but I just, it was my daughter’s wedding coming up, and I can’t wear those shoes that you’ve recommended for me, cosy feet, or whatever, they might be.

20:51.150 –> 20:57.815
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it’s not going to go with my 300 pound dress that I’ve just bought, you know, if it’s a, my only daughter’s wedding or whatever.

20:57.835 –> 20:59.516
[SPEAKER_00]: And the pedages will once be able to give some

21:00.637 –> 21:15.775
[SPEAKER_00]: options and so what you know they’ll go well have you had your hand look at calories because they do do heels that are suitable for a bunion if you if you need comfort so we do a lot of collaboration work with those and that means

21:16.516 –> 21:21.019
[SPEAKER_00]: basic collaboration work as in Ligflitz, you know, we get me to do them.

21:22.080 –> 21:30.906
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we also work with them on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok where they’re doing a round up.

21:30.926 –> 21:35.369
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, of shoes that they would talk about or they would recommend even.

21:36.430 –> 21:39.632
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have other special relationships as

21:43.975 –> 21:52.803
[SPEAKER_00]: So, a lot of collaborations are based on working with pediatrics and other foot specialists, and then there are different strands to what we call collaborating.

21:52.843 –> 22:06.674
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it might be with influences as well, and that might be just for content or that might be for reach on their profiles or whatever social profiles they have, and then the other collaborations are with

22:07.555 –> 22:13.419
[SPEAKER_00]: brand partners, I guess, who are maybe talking to women in a similar space.

22:13.439 –> 22:19.544
[SPEAKER_00]: So we’re about to do a brand collaboration with Look Fabulous Forever, which make me cook for a mature skin.

22:20.424 –> 22:21.205
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing brand.

22:22.186 –> 22:24.567
[SPEAKER_00]: And it fits really well with our demographics.

22:24.627 –> 22:27.009
[SPEAKER_00]: So there’s those types of collaborations as well.

22:27.049 –> 22:28.831
[SPEAKER_00]: So they’re different.

22:29.431 –> 22:34.875
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s all about sharing our customer base, I guess, that’s what it’s all about.

22:37.493 –> 22:42.334
[SPEAKER_02]: The Ecommerce Masterplan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

22:42.454 –> 22:52.596
[SPEAKER_02]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

22:52.616 –> 23:00.018
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay I love this section because it gives me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking up businesses to the next level.

23:00.058 –> 23:01.798
[SPEAKER_01]: Jenny are you ready for the top tips?

23:02.440 –> 23:03.080
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let’s do it.

23:03.521 –> 23:04.621
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, the book top tip.

23:04.701 –> 23:11.205
[SPEAKER_01]: If everyone is listening to this podcast, agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

23:12.185 –> 23:20.309
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is relevant, even if you don’t have a footwear business, because it’s one of the best books that I’ve ever read, and generally a fiction girl.

23:20.710 –> 23:27.193
[SPEAKER_00]: I listen to podcasts about e-commerce, stuff, and Shopify, but generally a fiction, but there’s a few books that are

23:31.068 –> 23:31.789
[SPEAKER_00]: have you read it clubbing?

23:32.089 –> 23:35.152
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven’t, yeah, it’s on the list, but I still haven’t read it.

23:35.893 –> 23:37.595
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually haven’t read it, I’d listen to it.

23:37.935 –> 23:52.229
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was on the train on the way down to London, I get totally trained sick on the Pendolino train, so the only thing I can do is sit with my eyes closed, so someone had recommended this to me and so I already listened to it.

23:53.150 –> 24:00.072
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, Phil Knight, who is the founder of Nike or Nike, it’s his books, his memoirs really.

24:00.673 –> 24:12.497
[SPEAKER_00]: And what it made me realize is how hard it is to settle her business and every business goes through the same issues.

24:12.937 –> 24:17.639
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, he got his to $30 billion or rather, throughout these days.

24:17.759 –> 24:19.860
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s worth $3 billion, crazy numbers.

24:21.280 –> 24:36.306
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, his first few ideas didn’t fly when he set up Nike, he actually had to bring an apartment to do one part of the business while he focused on another, so it’s like understanding that you don’t have to kind of do it on your own or the people out there.

24:37.146 –> 24:39.967
[SPEAKER_00]: And he borrowed a load of money to keep the business growing.

24:40.007 –> 24:45.890
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that’s a big challenge when you’re growing a business that you need more money to grow, especially if you’re in product.

24:47.250 –> 24:55.376
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had his massive overdraft with the bank and then the bank pulled it and said, right, you’re not having that million pound dollar overdraft anymore.

24:55.796 –> 24:59.559
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s gone and he was like, you know, I need to buy more shoes.

24:59.979 –> 25:01.981
[SPEAKER_00]: And how he went then about and how to get that money.

25:02.021 –> 25:05.503
[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes you realize that it was not plain sailing at all.

25:05.783 –> 25:06.444
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for him.

25:06.584 –> 25:10.046
[SPEAKER_00]: And he went into quite a lot of detail and the book about how he felt.

25:10.167 –> 25:14.209
[SPEAKER_00]: And in his emotional state and a lot of

25:15.390 –> 25:27.085
[SPEAKER_00]: how to do books they don’t really talk about that side of it that much do they it’s like you know this is what this is what you should do but actually the emotional part of it is the bit that I like that book about it we’re really connected with it.

25:27.785 –> 25:32.651
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s definitely good to read about someone who’s been on a similar journey when you hear the bad bits on the good bits.

25:33.292 –> 25:37.315
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s not a disaster’s book, but a real honest, honest look.

25:37.355 –> 25:40.017
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I need to move it further up my to-do list.

25:40.657 –> 25:46.021
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it’s brilliant, and he also talked about how they came up with a logo, you know, and it was a random thing.

25:46.041 –> 25:50.624
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people go, I think people think too much about that kind of stuff sometimes, and it’s like, well, actually.

25:51.806 –> 26:01.922
[SPEAKER_00]: The essence of that drawing of the swoosh is not Nike that Nike is everything that’s in that book that kind of culminated in what that brand means today.

26:02.042 –> 26:05.528
[SPEAKER_00]: The swoosh was just like a random throw away thing in the book and it’s…

26:06.361 –> 26:13.629
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s a good story, it’s a good part of the book, but it makes you realize that it’s not the be on end all the way around, really.

26:14.149 –> 26:14.870
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so true.

26:15.571 –> 26:21.577
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either price above all others or think doesn’t get the press, it deserves.

26:22.598 –> 26:24.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don’t know if this doesn’t get the president deserves.

26:24.359 –> 26:29.263
[SPEAKER_00]: It probably does right now, but ever since I started the business because I had no marketing budget.

26:29.463 –> 26:34.146
[SPEAKER_00]: So we’ve only really spent on ads in the last few years, a focused heavily on SEO.

26:34.726 –> 26:39.370
[SPEAKER_00]: And I knew that because I was in a niche that I could do something in that niche.

26:39.650 –> 26:43.673
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you, I wanted, when people’s hats and bunions use, that we would come up.

26:44.413 –> 26:47.097
[SPEAKER_00]: number one, or style issues of running issues.

26:47.117 –> 26:56.491
[SPEAKER_00]: I think style issues of running and so started with and to even today like most of our traffic and still comes from organic because of that.

26:56.591 –> 27:00.357
[SPEAKER_00]: And then because of all the work that we did at the beginning and have continued to do,

27:00.797 –> 27:05.318
[SPEAKER_00]: it’s now working for us on AI as well on LLNs.

27:05.338 –> 27:09.339
[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s so expensive to acquire customers through massive and Google now.

27:09.919 –> 27:17.140
[SPEAKER_00]: You need that underlying baseline traffic that’s just finding you through Google or wherever I think.

27:17.680 –> 27:26.962
[SPEAKER_00]: And so SEO is something that we are not obsessed with it, but I am obsessed with, like, I can get sometimes I can get a bit bogged down with, like, where we are on the runcings because sometimes you can really

27:29.742 –> 27:42.314
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to not start crying when we drop all the sitting, but for more the word that we don’t, we at some point last year, late last year, we were number one on Google for comfortable high heels.

27:43.342 –> 27:56.530
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we’re not right now, but it blew my mind that we can number one on Google for comfortable high heels, like above clerks, above new lockable of any other comfortable or heels shoe brand.

27:57.350 –> 27:59.371
[SPEAKER_00]: And it’s what everyone types in, I’m sure they do.

27:59.411 –> 28:00.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?

28:00.412 –> 28:01.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, total in time.

28:01.973 –> 28:03.153
[SPEAKER_00]: In full high heels, do they?

28:03.634 –> 28:10.838
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, the SEO recommends everybody, especially early stage businesses that don’t have big budgets.

28:11.783 –> 28:16.205
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ll be getting bogged down and trying to spend five quid a day on Facebook and it’s going to get you nowhere.

28:16.565 –> 28:17.666
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, indeed.

28:17.786 –> 28:18.846
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree with you on that.

28:18.986 –> 28:19.867
[SPEAKER_01]: Love that advice.

28:20.247 –> 28:30.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And the tooltop tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app, or just a way of working, is there a little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day?

28:31.489 –> 28:33.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I’m going to say a few things here, some shout out.

28:33.991 –> 28:37.234
[SPEAKER_00]: So we use Slack where remote Slack is amazing.

28:37.534 –> 28:40.916
[SPEAKER_00]: I use it to leave voice notes, I use it to make videos, to team.

28:41.857 –> 28:47.722
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t was not just typing communication, use it for huddles, it’s brilliant.

28:47.782 –> 28:54.947
[SPEAKER_00]: And it’s a way of really kind of breaking down all of your conversations so that everything stays in its nice neat little place.

28:55.348 –> 28:57.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Email for me is not good.

28:57.089 –> 28:58.030
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I always say to people,

29:01.092 –> 29:12.716
[SPEAKER_00]: It just gets so much spam and so for the team and it’s like it’s where it’s at and I tell people off if they write things in the wrong channel because we have to keep things in their in their little lanes.

29:13.396 –> 29:15.197
[SPEAKER_01]: I do that on a sauna as well.

29:15.237 –> 29:21.819
[SPEAKER_01]: We use a sauna and the so it’s some very similar way to use slack and I’m forever going, I’ve copied this into the right place.

29:25.100 –> 29:28.501
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you mentioned Slack, you said you had a couple of others who else gets a shout out?

29:29.021 –> 29:34.003
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there’s a couple of social, so I’m all about the underdog because I feel like that’s what we are.

29:34.684 –> 29:43.367
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get annoyed when apps have in monopolies and I’m an I’m using Shopify which is pretty much of a demon opportunity.

29:44.427 –> 30:03.474
[SPEAKER_00]: and and and and also using gorgeous as a customer services tool and again it’s I’ve desperately would like to use a different one because it’s quite expensive but it just is so good for what we need so besides those two return software we use returns app

30:04.574 –> 30:31.205
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s a big ones like Swap and Loop and all of those that are quite expensive but returns up with this little company that I found and it does exactly what it says on the tin, does exactly what we need and we have quite a lot of returns like we have 30% returns because it’s what we’re and it’s really reasonable and the dead good at service as well Christmas service I’ll love them and then we move from Clavio or Clavio where we want to say it to grow wave last year for our email and SMS

30:32.045 –> 30:39.452
[SPEAKER_00]: because Clavio, I thought that the service was bad and probably a bit like Shopify where you can never get hold of anyone.

30:40.613 –> 30:44.776
[SPEAKER_00]: But then they just keep charging you more and more money, you just suppose to suck it up, don’t like that.

30:45.217 –> 30:46.257
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s about to go up as well.

30:47.078 –> 30:50.901
[SPEAKER_01]: Don’t go the putting prices up again in 2026 because it’s all going AI crazy.

30:51.062 –> 30:51.322
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:52.002 –> 31:09.430
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t like, you know, software that I feel, you know, that has a monopoly and I felt that Clavio had a bit of a holdover because he kept on in the prices up and the service wasn’t great and there was never anybody you could talk to so we moved to attentive for our email and our SMS last year.

31:09.730 –> 31:11.891
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s cheaper, does the same thing?

31:11.931 –> 31:18.354
[SPEAKER_00]: We haven’t seen any downturn in revenue, Clavio is emailing me every week saying, I think you should come back to a attentive crap,

31:21.954 –> 31:22.294
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know.

31:22.354 –> 31:33.416
[SPEAKER_00]: I, at the moment, attempted a fan and would recommend people to have a look at them and ask me, reach out to me if you want to anything, ask any questions about it.

31:33.636 –> 31:39.958
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the last one was Grow Wave and Grow Wave do reviews and they do loyalty in one.

31:39.998 –> 31:43.819
[SPEAKER_00]: So there’s lots of apps out there that do loyalty, like loyalty lying in that.

31:43.839 –> 31:50.200
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there’s a lot of reviews apps, trust pilot, oh my god, they’re like the worst of putting prices up and you have to keep ringing them up.

31:50.880 –> 31:58.524
[SPEAKER_00]: just pile at a like, you know, Wi-Fi, broadband people, where they just keep putting your price until you ring them up and then you put it back down again.

31:58.684 –> 31:59.385
[SPEAKER_00]: That annoys me.

31:59.945 –> 32:09.070
[SPEAKER_00]: So, grow wave is a very well-priced product that again, it just reviews and it does loyalty all in one price and great, great service

32:14.433 –> 32:21.378
[SPEAKER_01]: top, detailed, underdog app advice that, and yeah, and I’m a bit of a fan of an underdog too, so I love those.

32:21.438 –> 32:25.761
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to go and I think I know them all, but I’m going to go and double check, I know them all straight after this.

32:26.502 –> 32:30.905
[SPEAKER_01]: Carbon top tip, what’s your favourite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

32:31.789 –> 32:36.532
[SPEAKER_00]: So what we’ve done is on our website, we have a resale and repair service.

32:37.293 –> 32:51.361
[SPEAKER_00]: I was conscious that Coliseuse floating around there on eBay and vintage and that kind of stuff, and but I wanted a place that was trustworthy so our customers could buy from previous customers and they knew that those shoes

32:52.222 –> 32:55.463
[SPEAKER_00]: we’re going to be all right and that’s kind of like how I wanted it to be.

32:56.023 –> 33:00.984
[SPEAKER_00]: So we offer a place on our website where customers can sell their old shoes.

33:01.544 –> 33:05.605
[SPEAKER_00]: They can either take the money or they can get an uplift and buy a new pair.

33:05.725 –> 33:09.446
[SPEAKER_00]: So that’s where they want to do and then or they can just just sell the shoes that they’ve got.

33:09.466 –> 33:18.908
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they’ll try them little boards and one of a couple of times in realising with two big or they didn’t fit you know I mean and that kind of stuff and we can’t we can’t take them back so it’s great for that because they don’t just end

33:21.569 –> 33:26.052
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we also use it as a way of selling our seconds stock.

33:26.072 –> 33:29.535
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, so we don’t have to just pin it.

33:29.595 –> 33:32.777
[SPEAKER_00]: And we also use it as a way samples, getting with a sample stock as well.

33:32.797 –> 33:36.579
[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, I’ve got loads, loads of samples just like knocking about.

33:37.720 –> 33:38.481
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, roundhouse.

33:38.761 –> 33:39.742
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we sell on there.

33:40.402 –> 33:46.044
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing is the repair service that’s delivered by an app called SiteCon, CICON.

33:46.304 –> 33:48.825
[SPEAKER_00]: She’s got, it’s a fairly new business.

33:49.465 –> 33:54.546
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t really know what’s happening with her business, it, you know, going forward because I need to try and get investment and stuff.

33:54.926 –> 34:01.949
[SPEAKER_00]: But basically, it means you can upload a photograph of your shoe and where it needs repairing to the website.

34:01.989 –> 34:06.310
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the AI will be like, this is, this is how much is going to cost you to get that bit repaired.

34:06.810 –> 34:09.471
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, again, it’s all about circular economy.

34:09.531 –> 34:12.172
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s how we’re trying to cut our carbon footprint down.

34:12.452 –> 34:26.838
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we do the normal stuff with packaging and that kind of stuff, recycled packaging and recycled shoe bags, but recycled material and our shoe bags, but I wanted to go that bit one step further, and I think circular economy is where it’s at.

34:27.198 –> 34:32.420
[SPEAKER_00]: Given the vintage evaluation recently, I was like, oh, I have an echo with that idea.

34:33.970 –> 34:38.832
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, I know, and how much they’ve forced everyone else in the marketplace to change as well.

34:39.332 –> 34:39.872
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don’t…

34:40.872 –> 34:45.194
[SPEAKER_01]: It is mad, but I love that you’re going down the circular route because it seems…

34:45.394 –> 34:51.636
[SPEAKER_01]: If I think that anyone listening will think that that’s not going to work well with your customer base, and you’re, you know, the why of your business.

34:51.656 –> 34:54.216
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so Jen, thanks for sharing all of that with us.

34:54.616 –> 34:59.458
[SPEAKER_01]: Before you say goodbye, could you please let the listeners know where they can find you, and your business on the web and social?

34:59.968 –> 35:04.932
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can find is it callushoose.co.uk or callushoose.com.

35:05.072 –> 35:06.993
[SPEAKER_00]: Both of them will get you to where you need to get to.

35:07.613 –> 35:10.936
[SPEAKER_00]: We are on all of the socials.

35:11.036 –> 35:13.978
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ve got 221,000 followers on Instagram.

35:13.998 –> 35:15.439
[SPEAKER_00]: So please come and add to that.

35:16.259 –> 35:17.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Callushoose.uk.

35:17.540 –> 35:21.183
[SPEAKER_00]: We want TikTok, one YouTube Pinterest.

35:22.224 –> 35:23.184
[SPEAKER_00]: Come follow us on all of them.

35:23.204 –> 35:23.805
[SPEAKER_00]: Come find us.

35:24.713 –> 35:24.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

35:25.034 –> 35:26.076
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m sure everyone will.

35:26.276 –> 35:27.940
[SPEAKER_01]: Jenny, thank you so much for being on the show.

35:27.960 –> 35:32.088
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s been fascinating chatting with you and thank you for sharing so much with the audience.

35:32.108 –> 35:33.009
[SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate it.

35:33.751 –> 35:34.552
[SPEAKER_00]: No problem.

35:40.401 –> 35:46.047
[SPEAKER_01]: some juicy tech recommendations there at the end from Jenny and what a fascinating chat.

35:46.087 –> 35:53.055
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, fascinating how she’s using the community of customers to build the business better.

35:53.175 –> 35:59.982
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought the way she was breaking down the collaboration into those three different customer bases, or those three different collaborator bases.

36:00.423 –> 36:02.105
[SPEAKER_01]: So the expert podire trists,

36:02.665 –> 36:04.566
[SPEAKER_01]: who they’re using working within different ways.

36:04.926 –> 36:19.270
[SPEAKER_01]: The actual advocates of the shoes, the people with the problem, who have presence online, and then the more straightforward partnerships, with other businesses who speak to similar audiences, well, there’s a lovely venn diagram over that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Really fascinating chatting to her there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Lots for us all to think about, I think, as a result of that one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can get your hands on the notes from this episode, including the top tips and links to what we’ve mentioned

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can also use our direct episode short links, just put ECMP.info for us as the number of the episode into the URL bar and you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.

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[SPEAKER_01]: When you get to the website, you can also add yourself to our email list so you don’t miss out on any of the other things I share to help you improve your business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you like this episode, then I recommend going and checking out Episode 480, which is again in the world of footwear, but this time we’re talking barefoot footwear with pool from Vivo barefoot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That’s episode 480 for that one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want more generally on footwear and fashion, then ECMP.info forward slash fashion, we’ll take you to a page on the website where we have all our fashion episodes listed out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in to this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.