WEBVTT

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[SPEAKER_00]: AI has made a massive amount of impact.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, we haven’t used AI in mainstream retail for retail itself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So coming forward with an extended produced responsibility, data.

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[SPEAKER_00]: will become king.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because data is how the fashion brand retailer will report on what it’s done with a garment, how many they received where they went, how many they sold, how many came back, how many were disposed of data will be king.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s great to have you here.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

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[SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we’ve got a past guest back on for something a little different.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Last time Andy was on the show was an epic three years ago and he was here telling us about how they do online retail at.

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[SPEAKER_02]: charity, organisation, orksfam, which was fascinating.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This time he’s back to get deep into the world of pre-loved, and all the ins and outs of it is one of our, what would you do, episode guests?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what would you do with Andy?

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s a big one, and we really are going to be talking all around it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We are doing what would you do if you were ahead of e-commerce at a fashion brand wanting to play in the second hand or pre-loved space?

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[SPEAKER_02]: all the things you need to think about as we get into this and maybe come to some conclusions maybe not, but it’s absolutely fascinating to hear from someone who is so deep in the world of pre-loved and the charity sector and how all of that links through to what we do in mainstream, I suppose, fashion retail.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, fascinating stuff coming up.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Make sure you listen right to the end because Andy’s got some brilliant top tips including some amazing stats around live stream shopping of all things.

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[SPEAKER_02]: and now to introduce our special guest.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Andy Oscliffe is the chief at chiefly, where their experts on the charity retail sector and pre-loved sales across product categories.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Previously, Andy co-created and led two of the world’s largest charity online retailers, Oxfam and British Heart Foundation, hello, Andy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Chloe, what an introduction.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much indeed.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it’s all user.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s all you.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Lovely to have you back on the show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: How have things been, since we last caught up in a few years now?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It has been a few years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was just saying I’ve read your book a few times on flights going backwards and forwards across the globe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s been particularly busy, but very, very interesting.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it’s a fascinating time to be in, I don’t think these days I’m not sure whether we call it secondhand or circular or what the right terminology is anymore, but to be in that used fashion space is fascinating.

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[SPEAKER_00]: that he’s pre-loved, come on, it’s been a second time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Fascinating.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at some of the stats in terms of, number of views is on certain platforms, of which I’m sure we’ll get into.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What people are buying and their price points, then I think it’s an exciting time as a consumer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It could be quite a challenging time as a mainstream retailer.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it’s interesting.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve kind of got the tech evolving.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve got the consumer behaviours evolving and we’ve got completely different business models coming into play as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think for anyone who’s running a fashion brand in particular, because that’s kind of at the bleeding edge of it, is fashion at the minute.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Anyone running a fashion brand at the moment?

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[SPEAKER_02]: working out how to play in this space for whatever reason they want to play in this space, because that’s a whole other list of questions as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s really difficult to work out what to do.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, you’ve suggested we do what would you do if you were ahead of e-commerce at a fashion brand, wanting to play in the second-hand space?

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, and what would you do if you were ahead of e-commerce at a fashion brand wanting to play in the second-hand and I should say pre-loved space right now?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, we’re a great question.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And again, mainstream retailers are literally scratching their heads because let’s break up what a fashion retailer looks like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You’ve got the value element of the sector, which could be supermarket fashion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It could be love entry such as Primark.

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[SPEAKER_00]: who are planning that particular space, but very much from a bricks and mortar perspective, but watch that space because their main shareholder has a few months ago decided to sell off

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[SPEAKER_00]: parts of their business, Prime Mark will be separated from that main parent company, who knows you may get some new shareholders coming along saying, why are we not online?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that may change that that view a little.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But if you, if you were to look at the market place now and say, who is, who is really serious about pre-loved fashion, I’d have to say

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[SPEAKER_00]: and it’s Marx and Sponsors, it’s a third-party resale platform and it’s eBay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they’re really giving it a good girl.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, who knew?

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is the retail chain where my mum goes for underwear, now experimenting with pre-law fashion online.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I find it so interesting that M&S have, they haven’t gone for the doing it on our website.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they’re not doing the buyback.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We recondition, we control it on our own platform.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They’re doing the, we buy it back.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then we sell it on eBay in the M&S eBay shop.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Which is such a, such a surprise.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I thought they’d have wanted the brand control.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I didn’t think they’d have wanted on a third party platform.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I find that strategically intriguing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s not easy, it’s difficult.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at, let’s look at some main stream retail brands in fashion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And let’s take one of the supermarket fashion brands.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that they’re logistics, they’re entire infrastructure, they’re entire operation works through 3PL.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So with Sainsbury’s as a really good example, DHL are one of their biggest 3PL providers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: dealing with brand new products, the logistics of it arriving just in time, the distribution into the store network, all the reverse logistics that take place in terms of product that just didn’t sell in the store versus returns.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes product just doesn’t even arrive at the supermarket

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[SPEAKER_00]: new goods were challenging in terms of logistics models and the just in times that have to fall into place for that happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But you loved is it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s just another ball game, different sizes, different styles, different seasons and have you got enough of the same product?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because sometimes you may just have a handful of pair of 501s and yet you’re going to

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[SPEAKER_00]: x price coming and get them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it is it does have some real challenges and maybe Marx and Spencer’s decided that by offloading that to a third party, they can trial, they can test, they can see, but ultimately if it went wrong, it’s not really our problem.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That’s the third party supply who’s dealing with that part of our business.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think you make such a good point there in terms of, even if you want to do it yourself internally, you know, you’re a smaller brand who it’s, you know, it fits with what you do and who you are and everything.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It is a completely different business model.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Everything is different from product photography to ironing and mending things potentially to having you used to have for the blue blue jeans.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You had five sizes and depth of identical product units on each of those five sizes.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Now you have five sizes plus three conditions.

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[SPEAKER_02]: with potentially individual photography, potentially individual descriptions, you’ve then got items of one, you know, logistically marketing it’s different website, how it behaves and how that functions is different.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think whether you’re going to do the outsource third party option for where you sell it, who manages it or whether you’re going to do it as a within your existing warehouse space and within your existing team,

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s as complicated as suddenly opening up a retail shop, I think, in terms of how you manage it as a business and the different techniques, it’s not just going to fit into your existing systems.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I agree, I agree.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we thought the logistics were challenging enough,

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[SPEAKER_00]: let’s just look at the economics because when you throw economics at this which is quite clearly where PLC retailers are now heavily focusing what’s the return if we invest what do our shareholders expect and sort of those shareholders are now huge organizations so they’re

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[SPEAKER_00]: more than ever before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the economics and let’s just dive into economics because we all know vintage in terms of the platform is and its success has been phenomenal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we saw vintage created in Europe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: it comes to the UK.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It collects in the UK 17.2 million users.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That’s almost a third of the population operating on a platform that buys and sells pre-loved fashion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, they’re

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[SPEAKER_00]: fashion platform, and suddenly then out of nowhere, in a very, very sneaky low key PR piece vintage say, or but we’re now operating in Australia.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when you look at the economics, and let’s just take a pair of jeans that you would buy from mainstream retail for £100,

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[SPEAKER_00]: and you can buy them on Vinted for 10 Palms, where on Earth would mainstream retail trying get involved with the price dynamics of how that works, all the organisation, all the extra work,

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[SPEAKER_00]: all that range in merchandising and you’re going to sell it for a tenth of what it is in the store.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it just doesn’t fit inside mainstream retail and maybe that’s why we’re not seeing mainstream retail at the moment entering the pre-loved marketplace.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, just one more point because

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[SPEAKER_00]: fashion retailers for quite some time have been very active around, well let’s just concentrate on the sourcing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s make sure that some of the content of the product that were manufacturing has recycled material within it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s show some of our credentials and maybe pick up some of our audience around feeling better, not feeling good, but feeling better about buying new clothing that

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[SPEAKER_00]: but you do come to a point that there’s only so much recycled material.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is where we get geeky.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There’s only so much recycled material you can actually put in a new piece of clothing where it will keep it safe, it’s texture, it’s form, it’s colour.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the quiet restricted really, and therefore I think we’ve got an audience, we quite clearly in the UK have picked up a shopper who wants value for money, they want to shop on their terms.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s almost become a social activity and don’t get me started on live if we pick this up

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh yeah, completely.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But I think the economics, yes, the economics you outlined is clearly the core economics part of this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But then I think we have two other things coming into play.

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[SPEAKER_02]: One of which is the data, and I think it was Boston University did the research where customers who are buying second hand and selling back second hand to the brand have a better lifetime value than those who are only buy full price products.

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[SPEAKER_02]: trackable impact on customer lifetime value that’s positive.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then we’ve also got the increasing pressure and legislation on brands to deal with their end of life and inverted commerce, end of first use products, be that returns, be that deadstock, be that customer used

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[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, there’s loads of our product on Vintage and eBay.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I want a slice of that, which I get, you know, but as you just outline the economic, it’s not big margins, we’re talking about here.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But then there’s also the things we’ve got to build anyway so let’s leverage more product through that process, if that makes sense.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then the legislative cost that’s going to be coming in our direction sooner or later.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s look at legislation because legislation is active in Europe and I’ve spent some time across the Netherlands to understand and the Netherlands in terms of extended producer responsibility and of course then you’ve got digital product passport which follows that first piece of legislation

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[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, extender prison’s responsibility.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Give more responsibility to the clothing brands as to what happens that garment treats finished after another life really.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now the Netherlands is quite strict in terms of the legislation and each state within Europe has decided its own

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can find yourself in maybe 50% only needs to be recycled.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The Netherlands were getting up to 75% needs to be recycled.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where retailers are really starting to they’re looking at this from an opportunity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The opportunity is for you to bring back

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[SPEAKER_00]: You’re clothing back into store and the brand issues you with a credit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it might be 10% off or 15% off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, they’re encouraging reuse.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You come into store, you hand over your baggie.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn’t have to be like for like it could be five cashes and two pairs of jeans and you’re shopping for a new jacket, for example.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and you get a monetary value off your next shop.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, sneakily, that does work, but it also entices us to buy another item, but you could argue we’re recycling the item also.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we’ll talk about where those items go and what volume because that is becoming

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[SPEAKER_00]: very interesting, but we have put in place an a commercial piece of mechanism that makes the shopper psychologically feel better because they’ve brought in their old clothing, they’re buying something new.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I win on both ends really, so that’s that’s starting to have a

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[SPEAKER_00]: Where this would really start to show up in the UK’s, once we get to that point of having extended producer responsibility and it is common, Defa have put this stuff for quite some time, but with mainstream Europe now deploying this Australia to across in the states in various and various US states are now bringing out extended producer responsibility.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The UK is not

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[SPEAKER_00]: warning that comes with this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Out of any other country, the saturation or the population that we have in terms of charity shops is huge.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s think about this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some estimates say we’ve got up to 10,000 charity shops on the high street.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that a charity shop exists is essentially we all know this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You bring items of clothing into the charity shop, you make a donation or it could

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[SPEAKER_00]: the donation bank that’s in the car park of your chosen supermarket shop that you go to on the weekend, we deposit a bag of our things we’ve had a wardrobe clear out and the charity shop goes through those items they decide what can be resold and they put them either online or

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[SPEAKER_00]: If, suddenly, the big brand retailers now start offering an incentive, a financial incentive for you to walk into store with those items rather than taking them to the charity shop who, sometimes, and they are getting much better at this, decide what they want and what they don’t want.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, we don’t want those items, but we will have those.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If that, it turned out on its head where the supermarket accepts anything or the mainstream fashion retailer accepts anything and you get a monetary coupon, then suddenly, where did all the plea of clothing go?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because it’s not going to the charity shop, it’s going back into mainstream retailers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that is a danger, that is a warning for mainstream UK charge retail to watch out and maybe come up with some

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[SPEAKER_00]: marketing concepts to keep level with what mainstream retail could start doing over here in the UK.

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[SPEAKER_02]: interesting.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I didn’t think you were going to go there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I thought you were going to talk about charity shops having too much stock because I think there’s an element of from a consumer standpoint where I think consumers are going to have to start taking or should start taking more responsibility for the end of life of their products where I think

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[SPEAKER_02]: There’s, you know, you can feel good by selling it and inverted commas back to the retailer for a £5.0 for a 10% off.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can feel good by donating it to the charity.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But in both instances, some of that product is gonna end up being recycled or passed on or flown around the world and dumped on somebody else because if you know, this little river of clothes running down the place, we’re still manufacturing too much more than the world needs, not just more than the UK needs.

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[SPEAKER_02]: which I think comes into your fascinating trip to Ghana with all of this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But it’s, we have this kind of tidal wave of product which we’re just dumping on the third world.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s probably the wrong terminology to use.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We’re dumping on other countries to deal with rather than dealing with it ourselves.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone, Annie’s smirking at me here.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I’m going to stop digging the hole and let the expert talk.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I’m going to say goodbye.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I find the analogy really interesting and let’s start this journey of where clothing goes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I’ll let’s start with the charity shop and we’ll break this down and we’ll look at where mainstream retail falls into this and we’ll try and pull in some online and to be commerce as we go to to keep your audience interested because they’re probably thinking at this moment

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at what we are doing with our closet, when we sort our closet at the moment, with 17.2 million users, augmented, we are creating essentially two banks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We’re creating a bag that we’re prepared to take the charity shop and we’re creating another bag that potentially has more value in it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And 17.2 million of us are deciding that we’re going to have a go at this, and we’re going to sell it on vented, and we’re going to realize some value out of what our wardrobe

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[SPEAKER_00]: That creates a problem for charity, because charity, once you’ve worn a supermarket brand t-shirt for more than half a dozen or a dozen times, and there are various claims from various brands of how long their product lasts, it’s still a supermarket brand t-shirt.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what do you think it’s worth?

21:52.132 –> 22:03.379
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you go back a couple of years, charter shops would relish the Benchum and polo t-shirt, the boss t-shirt, et cetera, et cetera.

22:03.439 –> 22:06.441
[SPEAKER_00]: The big, you know, the designer brand style product,

22:07.141 –> 22:10.283
[SPEAKER_00]: will sit proudly inside that shop.

22:10.744 –> 22:18.049
[SPEAKER_00]: But they’re running out of that product and the reason why is that suddenly we found that it’s got a value and we’re deciding to cash in that value ourselves.

22:18.089 –> 22:24.954
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot, not all of a, a lot of product which is finding its way into UK charity is

22:27.255 –> 22:29.717
[SPEAKER_00]: economic value product.

22:30.538 –> 22:32.140
[SPEAKER_00]: And what did you do with it?

22:32.640 –> 22:44.051
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there were two really big recycling plants in Europe currently working under full economic mechanisms.

22:44.091 –> 22:44.652
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s best for our

22:47.454 –> 22:48.995
[SPEAKER_00]: is not a proof of concept.

22:49.475 –> 22:57.278
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s not a, we’ve got part of the machine, but we’re just waiting for the other part to arrive, that full-blown operational sites.

22:57.679 –> 23:00.040
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s one in Turkey and there’s one in Sweden.

23:00.380 –> 23:06.903
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you’re looking for true fiber to fiber, that’s the direction of where that product currently translates.

23:07.583 –> 23:15.950
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you then go back to the charity shop, the charity shop will have a collection for what we call a rag merchant.

23:16.510 –> 23:17.971
[SPEAKER_00]: A rag merchant is just that.

23:18.111 –> 23:26.278
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s someone who comes around and offers a price per kilo for the excess product that you’ve generated from that particular location.

23:26.938 –> 23:32.821
[SPEAKER_00]: And let’s lump together a number of shops, secure a national charity retailer.

23:32.841 –> 23:34.542
[SPEAKER_00]: You’ve got 200 shops or more.

23:35.082 –> 23:36.202
[SPEAKER_00]: Not few of those are enough.

23:36.222 –> 23:37.483
[SPEAKER_00]: Many of those around at the moment.

23:37.503 –> 23:39.564
[SPEAKER_00]: But you’ve got 200 chance shops or more.

23:39.864 –> 23:41.145
[SPEAKER_00]: You’ve got a national agreement.

23:41.505 –> 23:42.666
[SPEAKER_00]: That Rage is collected.

23:43.126 –> 23:50.569
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it is sorted in the UK and then it’s created into product types and product mixers.

23:52.110 –> 23:52.631
[SPEAKER_00]: Ghana.

23:53.231 –> 23:53.972
[SPEAKER_00]: Why Ghana?

23:54.612 –> 24:02.479
[SPEAKER_00]: Ghana is by far the largest market place in the world for pre-loved fashion.

24:03.820 –> 24:06.262
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you get a lot of questions as to, well, why?

24:07.023 –> 24:17.592
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you’ve got 30,000 market traders who operate in the Cantermanto Marketplace in Akra, the capital of Ghana.

24:18.552 –> 24:24.477
[SPEAKER_00]: and having spent some time inside that marketplace absolutely fascinating.

24:25.057 –> 24:35.505
[SPEAKER_00]: If you get an opportunity to go, you get a visa clearance and a passport control actually let you in the country then go and have a look because it is a fascinating place.

24:36.085 –> 24:45.893
[SPEAKER_00]: So 1.2 million people are reliant upon that marketplace to earn a living or whether it’s provide education or healthcare,

24:46.853 –> 24:48.375
[SPEAKER_00]: economics for their own family.

24:48.935 –> 24:59.623
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s a really important piece of infrastructure, so much so the Ghanaian government recognised that this is a integral part of their economy, so don’t take it away.

25:00.564 –> 25:07.989
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are lots and lots of statistics where some organisations will tell you that 40% of what

25:11.932 –> 25:17.037
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s why all gets kicked out and it gets washed down streamed and it turns upon a beach.

25:17.357 –> 25:25.144
[SPEAKER_00]: And those are the pictures and the photographs that the journalists love to see and love to send to it.

25:25.404 –> 25:37.315
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason for that is it creates headlines, headlines create traffic, traffic creates a monetary connection for their newspaper or their article or for the journalists.

25:38.395 –> 25:51.278
[SPEAKER_00]: But be very aware of that that 40% waste, if you were to look at that red collection in the UK, if everything they did was 40% waste, they just wouldn’t be in business.

25:51.978 –> 26:02.781
[SPEAKER_00]: If the whole sailor on the marketplace who bought that parcel and everything in that bail of clothing was 40% waste, they wouldn’t be in business either, neither would be the market trader.

26:07.822 –> 26:17.545
[SPEAKER_00]: The Bales arrive 57,000 tons, a year arriving Ghana, just from the UK.

26:18.005 –> 26:23.846
[SPEAKER_00]: We are the biggest exporter of pre-lift clothing to that particular location.

26:23.946 –> 26:27.507
[SPEAKER_00]: More than China, more than America, more than the whole of Europe.

26:27.627 –> 26:28.828
[SPEAKER_00]: We are the largest.

26:29.208 –> 26:33.609
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we therefore have created some really interesting relationships,

26:37.370 –> 26:52.542
[SPEAKER_00]: the mainstream rag merchants who are based here in the UK and the wholesale traders who are based in Akra, and some of these relationships are 30 or 40 years old, so they have traded on the productsets that we send and they ask for.

26:53.162 –> 26:58.026
[SPEAKER_00]: and what’s really interesting, Chloe, is that those wholesale traders come to the UK.

26:58.446 –> 27:01.308
[SPEAKER_00]: They come to the sorting locations in the UK.

27:01.768 –> 27:04.751
[SPEAKER_00]: They advise what product they’re looking for.

27:05.031 –> 27:12.917
[SPEAKER_00]: They will say, we don’t want white t-shirts because white t-shirts are over here just don’t sell or we don’t want this colour or we don’t want this style or don’t.

27:14.157 –> 27:20.042
[SPEAKER_00]: And you start to think, you know, common sense, you’d never send proper jackets or winterwear into an African nation,

27:20.442 –> 27:21.203
[SPEAKER_00]: just doesn’t work.

27:21.243 –> 27:32.212
[SPEAKER_00]: So they’re quite specific on what they want, the quantity, the style and what you talk to people in the marketplace as I did and you ask the question, what is it?

27:32.713 –> 27:34.815
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that your customers are looking for?

27:34.915 –> 27:37.017
[SPEAKER_00]: What are they buying, what kind of styles?

27:37.617 –> 27:40.560
[SPEAKER_00]: You quite simply get told exactly what you’re wearing.

27:41.260 –> 27:42.881
[SPEAKER_00]: My customer wants what you’re wearing.

27:42.961 –> 27:45.742
[SPEAKER_00]: They want the latest styles, the what the latest fashion.

27:46.263 –> 27:55.727
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore with that rag merchant, you’ve actually got a very quick turn around of where that product is sorted in the UK and is sent to Africa.

27:55.808 –> 28:05.092
[SPEAKER_00]: So fashion in terms of trend in terms of what people are wearing has caught up quite quickly across the African nations.

28:05.633 –> 28:05.853
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s an

28:10.655 –> 28:16.377
[SPEAKER_00]: you’re down to us being in the question, how does that product get to Accra?

28:17.397 –> 28:26.460
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was there just a few weeks ago, and I had a bit of a rumoured, and I started looking through items for sale.

28:27.141 –> 28:34.043
[SPEAKER_00]: And those items for sale you can find every day, the swing tags and labels

28:40.805 –> 28:42.546
[SPEAKER_00]: in Accro in Continental.

28:43.066 –> 29:01.551
[SPEAKER_00]: The full brand name, the full price tag, even the charity shops have left their price tags on the items and I came back with some photographs and I sat down with a chart, I said, you’ve got items here that are worth, that are priced at 15 pounds and

29:08.093 –> 29:15.739
[SPEAKER_00]: would it simply not have been better to sell that at six pounds or four pounds?

29:16.480 –> 29:29.490
[SPEAKER_00]: Discount it before you have to dispose of that product before it was sold to the rag merchant and their responses and this is where I think E-commerce has a real big part still to play in the sector.

29:29.970 –> 29:31.492
[SPEAKER_00]: The response was Andy.

29:32.252 –> 29:42.560
[SPEAKER_00]: if we suddenly marked everything down by 50% in the shop, we would devalue the offer of what we are selling within our shop.

29:42.960 –> 29:48.825
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone would suddenly think, well, I’m not going to pay 20 pounds for that item, I’m going to pay 10 pounds because I know you’re going to market down.

29:49.405 –> 29:51.267
[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s a way of

29:51.807 –> 30:07.972
[SPEAKER_00]: of the organisation being able to merchandise a move stuck along if it’s not sold in two weeks then it’s not going to sell you ever rotate it around a neighbouring charity shop if you have one within your organisation or you simply sell it to the rag merchant but the irony is

30:08.672 –> 30:12.936
[SPEAKER_00]: that the rag merchant will offer between one pens, five pens.

30:13.176 –> 30:19.621
[SPEAKER_00]: If you’re really looking, 10 pens per kilo, and then they’ll do a sortation, and it’ll go to Acre.

30:19.881 –> 30:24.585
[SPEAKER_00]: So we are allowing ourselves as a retailer.

30:25.526 –> 30:40.857
[SPEAKER_00]: to be defined by what we think our shop will want, and what press their prepare to pay, and we’re merchandising, we’re exiting stock on a fear, rather than saying, okay, what it’s been, it’s been on sale in the shop for two weeks.

30:41.517 –> 30:59.197
[SPEAKER_00]: I’ll move it onto Vintage, I’ll move it onto eBay, I’ll move it onto what, I’ll move it onto D-Pop, which ever platform takes you fancy, it’s got to be worth two or three pounds on there before we start sending it into the other side of the world to sell for a few pounds really, or a few pence.

31:00.158 –> 31:11.483
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s a kind of a more traditional retail merchandising strategy needed in the charity shops to make to squeeze the money out of these items, going back to our original, what would you do question?

31:12.223 –> 31:20.887
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we’ve covered some fascinating, you know, fascinating things that a head of e-commerce needs to think about before they decide what the pre-loved play at their fashion brand is.

31:21.487 –> 31:23.628
[SPEAKER_02]: From everything we’ve talked about, it strikes me that

31:24.863 –> 31:32.746
[SPEAKER_02]: The best option for a brand and maybe for every body would be if the brand offers a buyback scheme of some sort.

31:33.586 –> 31:53.093
[SPEAKER_02]: And then rather than having a second hand section on the website, they have an agreement with A and other charity chain, which then gets the charity chain get that premium clothing that they’re losing to buyback schemes and vintage.

31:54.339 –> 32:00.501
[SPEAKER_02]: and the retailer has none of the headache and all of the P.R.G.s, and they’ve done the responsible thing and all the rest of it.

32:01.341 –> 32:05.242
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I over-simplifying or is that a pretty good route to go for?

32:06.062 –> 32:18.085
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s not a bad route to go for, and the reason why we get stuck on the schematics of of why would be something that we’ve not done before.

32:18.995 –> 32:21.818
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let’s break this down AI.

32:22.158 –> 32:29.324
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, let’s bring AI into this argument because this is where the game changes completely.

32:30.185 –> 32:44.077
[SPEAKER_00]: If I got back to my days at British Heart Foundation, British Heart Foundation would be presented with a range of items and whether you were working on stamps and coins, vinyl, clothing,

32:45.018 –> 32:54.022
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a given that as a list at work and inside that organization, you would list so many items, per list per deck.

32:54.382 –> 33:05.327
[SPEAKER_00]: Those were the fundamentals almost the the foundations of how the organization worked in what your future investment might look like in terms of creating a much larger e-commerce department.

33:05.947 –> 33:07.668
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let’s bring in AI now.

33:08.708 –> 33:22.499
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember, 40 listings per list of per day, AI in some commercial clothing resell operations can do now up to 220 garments per list of per day.

33:22.919 –> 33:33.047
[SPEAKER_00]: So if AI is able to give us a huge process and economic uplift.

33:33.727 –> 33:44.132
[SPEAKER_00]: could AI play more of a part with a mainstream retail fashion retail that maybe it hasn’t appeared within before.

33:44.432 –> 33:47.213
[SPEAKER_00]: We know AI, for example, can measure garments.

33:47.273 –> 33:57.798
[SPEAKER_00]: We know, for example, AI can you can stand in front of a camera and you can try on virtually different ranges of shirts and colors and styles.

33:58.678 –> 34:08.325
[SPEAKER_00]: And we’ve been using AI to try and reduce the number of returns through R by 3 and I’ll keep the pair that fits.

34:08.685 –> 34:15.690
[SPEAKER_00]: So AI in that introduction has made massive, a massive amount of impact.

34:16.170 –> 34:22.334
[SPEAKER_00]: However, we haven’t used AI in mainstream retail for retail itself.

34:22.554 –> 34:22.754
[SPEAKER_00]: So

34:23.815 –> 34:30.259
[SPEAKER_00]: going forward with an extended produced responsibility, data will become king.

34:30.780 –> 34:44.629
[SPEAKER_00]: Because data is how the fashion brand retailer will report on what it’s done with a garment, how many they received, where they went, how many of their sold, how many came back, how many were disposed

34:49.192 –> 35:10.785
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe even a commercial retailer that can match the requirement, the data will be the winner, because the data that will be required will fundamentally form part of the compliance that will be required for extended producer responsibility and maybe in some respect digital product passport as well.

35:13.654 –> 35:18.422
[SPEAKER_01]: E-commerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.

35:18.542 –> 35:19.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

35:31.373 –> 35:36.679
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I love this section, excuse me, and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

35:36.879 –> 35:38.481
[SPEAKER_02]: And are you ready for the top tips?

35:38.842 –> 35:39.302
[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s go.

35:39.322 –> 35:41.064
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the booktop tip.

35:41.164 –> 35:47.532
[SPEAKER_02]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

35:48.269 –> 35:48.829
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what?

35:49.529 –> 36:05.735
[SPEAKER_00]: I would take a break from business on a Friday and I’d read something completely unbusiness related because giving your head that space rather than thinking about work, especially on a Friday.

36:06.355 –> 36:13.441
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think we’re missing, if you’ve seen any of my videos, I’ll try and put some whitt and some humor into what I’m talking about.

36:13.922 –> 36:28.193
[SPEAKER_00]: So pick up something that makes your laugh, pick up something that makes you think, don’t pick up something that tells you how to share trade or deal or increase your productivity by another 10 or 15%.

36:28.274 –> 36:30.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Save that for the day, job, get a life.

36:31.777 –> 36:39.884
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to say, I do now always have a fiction paper back book in the office when I need a little time out.

36:40.004 –> 36:47.452
[SPEAKER_02]: I’ll go and sit somewhere else and read that for ten minutes, say yeah, I wholeheartedly approve of that as a as a piece of advice there.

36:47.992 –> 36:53.337
[SPEAKER_02]: Traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either price above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

36:54.358 –> 37:01.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Live shopping has been around Chloe as you and I will now for quite some time.

37:01.305 –> 37:08.992
[SPEAKER_00]: You live shopping TV, I mean the most famous one is quite clearly QVC and now you’ve got multiple channels of QVC.

37:09.012 –> 37:10.974
[SPEAKER_00]: You can buy a lawnmower on channel 1.

37:10.994 –> 37:13.656
[SPEAKER_00]: You can buy cosmetics on channel 2.

37:13.736 –> 37:18.360
[SPEAKER_00]: So live shopping has without doubt taken off.

37:20.202 –> 37:33.751
[SPEAKER_00]: where I’ve been astonished on some of the results that live shopping has produced and it’s not in areas you would have normally associated with with this.

37:33.791 –> 37:46.139
[SPEAKER_00]: So some of the smaller kind of boutique organizations have gone out on a bit of a women apprient and thought right we’re going to put someone in front of the camera we’re going to do it a completely unsocial time for them.

37:47.419 –> 37:58.667
[SPEAKER_00]: because seven o’clock in the night time is not generally when we’re all at work, but it’s when we’re all watching either something on our phones, scrolling or watching some TV, and they’ve decided to go at it.

37:58.687 –> 38:08.634
[SPEAKER_00]: And let me give you one really good example because I was at the charity retail association, national conference in Wales a few days ago.

38:09.395 –> 38:10.616
[SPEAKER_00]: And Bernardos,

38:14.118 –> 38:21.444
[SPEAKER_00]: gave a talk about how they’ve been experimenting with live shopping and they did that awkward.

38:21.644 –> 38:23.005
[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s just jump in and try it.

38:23.726 –> 38:27.509
[SPEAKER_00]: They now do three live sessions per week.

38:28.229 –> 38:29.730
[SPEAKER_00]: It has been so successful.

38:29.850 –> 38:32.472
[SPEAKER_00]: They’re now going to do one per day.

38:33.473 –> 38:39.716
[SPEAKER_00]: and moving further forward from that they’re going to do five each day.

38:40.537 –> 38:47.621
[SPEAKER_00]: And let me tell you why because this is fascinating in their product mix of of what they receive.

38:47.821 –> 38:52.683
[SPEAKER_00]: If you’re kind of a charity retailer, what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to save the best of throng line.

38:53.224 –> 38:56.685
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ve got a psychological threshold that when we walk into a charity shop with

38:59.687 –> 39:17.906
[SPEAKER_00]: how much, which is an old Yorkshire war cry, and that’s because we assume that you’re a charity and you should have been challenging more than 25 pounds for something, and of course they’re at caveats, so you know everyone writing in the comments, oh I’ve solved something for a hundred pounds, you probably did, but I’m talking in generalistic terms.

39:18.547 –> 39:34.779
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you expose it online, you can realize more value for it and sometimes the person who’s bidding for the item online doesn’t realise it’s coming from a chat to yourself, sometimes it can really increase in terms of value, let’s take Pokemon cards, which was the example that was given.

39:35.299 –> 39:40.423
[SPEAKER_00]: But Nardos would have sold a pack of Pokemon cards.

39:40.743 –> 39:41.584
[SPEAKER_00]: They would have collected

39:46.067 –> 40:10.547
[SPEAKER_00]: they’d weigh them, they’d try and cap them up, they’d give some averages and they’d say, here’s a bundle of Pokemon cards, start the bidit, and they may reach 25 pounds, 35 pounds, and the irony of this is that it was one of their biggest returning items as well, but not all the cards returned, quite clearly, some consumers were keeping the best ones and sending

40:11.588 –> 40:14.050
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, let’s bring out live shopping.

40:14.350 –> 40:18.393
[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s ask the team within Banardos.

40:18.874 –> 40:21.636
[SPEAKER_00]: Does anyone know anything about Pokemon cards?

40:22.477 –> 40:27.320
[SPEAKER_00]: And the most introvert technical individual at the back room puts their

40:29.720 –> 40:36.923
[SPEAKER_00]: And that person suddenly is presenting under their own steam, that’s their desire.

40:37.463 –> 40:39.064
[SPEAKER_00]: They know about this product.

40:39.164 –> 40:54.830
[SPEAKER_00]: They are inherently interested in this product and now they’re starting to realize real true value because when that collector card comes along, it’s given the airspace, the time, and it reaches the value as to what that product is worth.

40:55.470 –> 40:56.371
[SPEAKER_00]: And life,

40:57.151 –> 41:02.752
[SPEAKER_00]: compliment, e-com, e-com, compliment, bricks and mortar.

41:03.333 –> 41:11.254
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we go back to gosh, my days at John Lewis, when I’m the channel, there’s all the rage, that terminology, I’m the channel.

41:11.735 –> 41:23.297
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not anymore, but you’ve essentially got a number of platforms or a number of vehicles or a number of mechanisms where you reach your customer, bricks and mortar, e-com and live.

41:26.098 –> 41:32.880
[SPEAKER_00]: I could have just said, live shopping, Chloe, but that’s the reason why live shopping is really starting to gain some traction.

41:33.941 –> 41:35.441
[SPEAKER_02]: Love the detail on that, Andy.

41:35.461 –> 41:37.242
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ll let you have the super long answer.

41:37.622 –> 41:40.103
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the next one then is the tall top tip.

41:40.183 –> 41:44.564
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app, or just a way of working.

41:44.684 –> 41:49.026
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day?

41:50.109 –> 41:50.529
[SPEAKER_00]: phone app.

41:51.190 –> 41:57.494
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s going to be found out on the product sets that I’m working on or I’ve got a dare I say this.

41:57.734 –> 42:10.602
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s going to be AI and looking at some information as some details that AI throws back because that level of information now really starts to make a difference in that project or that work that you’re delivering.

42:11.142 –> 42:11.422
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.

42:11.542 –> 42:12.903
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the carbon top tip.

42:13.243 –> 42:17.046
[SPEAKER_02]: What’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

42:18.125 –> 42:23.006
[SPEAKER_00]: use the packaging that the item has been sent out to do something else with.

42:23.287 –> 42:24.147
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s dead easy.

42:24.367 –> 42:34.830
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I’m not saying return the item but I’m saying if that item has another life and a top tip and I’ve seen this in action, post back.

42:35.330 –> 42:49.262
[SPEAKER_00]: So even if you’re wanting customers to send product back, as we talked before, in terms of a take-back scheme, if they can use the original packaging that the product came within and they can send that back, then hey, that’s another reuse of that packaging.

42:49.772 –> 42:50.732
[SPEAKER_02]: nice like that.

42:51.152 –> 42:58.815
[SPEAKER_02]: And before we say goodbye, could you please at the listeners know where they can get in contact with you if they want to chat more about all of this or anything else really?

42:58.835 –> 42:59.835
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

42:59.935 –> 43:01.936
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m very easy to find.

43:02.716 –> 43:07.818
[SPEAKER_00]: And many people do connect with me over LinkedIn, which is my business networking channel.

43:08.278 –> 43:09.918
[SPEAKER_00]: You can drop me a DM on there.

43:10.078 –> 43:11.599
[SPEAKER_00]: I do answer everyone.

43:11.619 –> 43:12.779
[SPEAKER_00]: So please find me on there.

43:13.199 –> 43:13.319
[SPEAKER_00]: And

43:18.401 –> 43:21.042
[SPEAKER_00]: and other mainstream channels.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Love it, just search for Andy Oscliff to get involved with all of that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I know, as you can all tell, Andy’s not so much about all of this, they do send him your questions and push us all further along on the journey.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Andy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast again.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s always a pleasure catching up with you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic and great to see you again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That’s not leaving it so long next time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: fascinating to hear from Andy there on all the challenges in the pre-loved space at the moment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So much opportunity, but making the right decisions about how you handle it, which levers you use, how you process it, how you support others in the space as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think lots,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Not necessarily huge answers, they’re plenty for us all to talk about.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You get your hands on our notes from the episode including those top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You could also use our direct episode short links just put ECMP.info forward slash the number of this episode into the URL bar and you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And when you get to the website, please join the Chloe Thomas

44:37.948 –> 44:44.010
[SPEAKER_02]: love to keep updating you with all the cool stuff we’ve got going on and other other people have going on to help you build your business.

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[SPEAKER_02]: If you like this episode then make sure you check out episode 454 which is Andy on the show again this time going in deep into what he was up to when he was working at Oxford.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that really builds on what we’ve been talking about today.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You can also find all our fashion episodes at ECMP.info4-fashion or all our other what would you do’s via ECMP.info4-WWYD.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help Ecommerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging all those consumers and businesses to make more sustainable buying decisions.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.