00:00.631 –> 00:04.094
[SPEAKER_02]: AB testing and that testing cycle is your best friend.

00:04.634 –> 00:06.996
[SPEAKER_02]: You don’t have to go all in, you can do small amounts.

00:07.236 –> 00:16.122
[SPEAKER_02]: Make a testing budget that’s 90% BAU, 10% testing, and then find a rollout plan that rolls what’s getting hooked back into your main budget, things like that.

00:16.702 –> 00:18.243
[SPEAKER_02]: Always be moving and adapting.

00:18.343 –> 00:19.524
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s the key thing.

00:19.584 –> 00:23.307
[SPEAKER_02]: You can’t even trust with a lot of these markets that what you knew a year ago even still works.

00:26.152 –> 00:28.533
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

00:29.093 –> 00:33.174
[SPEAKER_01]: Air to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

00:33.674 –> 00:41.477
[SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hinder to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

00:44.790 –> 00:47.251
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome, it’s great to have you here.

00:47.311 –> 00:51.093
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being in play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

00:51.513 –> 00:56.295
[SPEAKER_00]: Huge thanks to Aleka Carney from Nosto for introducing us to this brilliant guest.

00:56.496 –> 00:57.496
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Alea.

00:57.716 –> 00:58.877
[SPEAKER_00]: We really appreciate it.

00:59.317 –> 01:02.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Now in this episode, we are talking luxury fashion.

01:02.618 –> 01:04.019
[SPEAKER_00]: We’re talking marketplaces.

01:04.459 –> 01:08.561
[SPEAKER_00]: We are talking super complex operations, customs, and tariffs.

01:09.061 –> 01:09.862
[SPEAKER_00]: We’re talking

01:10.442 –> 01:15.284
[SPEAKER_00]: AI, practical AI tips, and we are talking about expansion into the Middle East.

01:15.304 –> 01:18.145
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s a whole lot more we get into, but those are the key things.

01:18.505 –> 01:24.408
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you listen to the end of the episode so you don’t miss out on my guest top tips and my own take on this episode.

01:30.460 –> 01:32.561
[SPEAKER_00]: and now to introduce our special guest.

01:32.861 –> 01:39.005
[SPEAKER_00]: Holly Daniels is the head of e-commerce at Colt Meer and a draper’s 30 under 30 alumni.

01:39.465 –> 01:49.471
[SPEAKER_00]: Colt Meer is an independent luxury fashion market play showcasing new designers and unique collections, many of which are exclusively to them on their Shopify website.

01:50.011 –> 01:54.314
[SPEAKER_00]: Founded in 2019, they won draper’s best independent retailer in both

01:54.934 –> 02:05.598
[SPEAKER_00]: 2022 and 2023 and last year were named in the UK fast growth index not surprising since in the last couple of years they’ve scaled sales five times.

02:05.738 –> 02:06.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Holly.

02:07.178 –> 02:07.899
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, how’s it going?

02:08.719 –> 02:09.419
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s good.

02:09.519 –> 02:13.761
[SPEAKER_00]: Great to have you here and you know, sparing some time whilst you’re busy five-exing growth.

02:13.941 –> 02:16.262
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I’m amazed you have time to do podcasts.

02:16.602 –> 02:17.862
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s always a couple of three minutes.

02:19.863 –> 02:23.004
[SPEAKER_00]: But how did you get started in e-commerce yourself?

02:23.972 –> 02:27.854
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I’d been working in e-commerce for the little over 10 years now.

02:27.934 –> 02:30.795
[SPEAKER_02]: So back in 2013, I think it was.

02:31.595 –> 02:35.217
[SPEAKER_02]: I started actually not intentionally.

02:35.577 –> 02:36.958
[SPEAKER_02]: I was studying journals at the time.

02:37.018 –> 02:38.478
[SPEAKER_02]: I worked in a few fashion stores.

02:38.638 –> 02:42.680
[SPEAKER_02]: They needed to help in these e-commerce and online business spaces that were just opening up.

02:43.180 –> 02:46.002
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just honestly found that I was really good at it.

02:46.122 –> 02:48.903
[SPEAKER_02]: So over the years, I scaled up into content positions.

02:49.643 –> 03:01.528
[SPEAKER_02]: operation and positions, quickly scaled into e-commerce management by 2015, I think it was, and it’s sort of been sitting in those in above since then, really working with growth and start at models.

03:01.568 –> 03:02.769
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s my bread and butter.

03:03.249 –> 03:07.811
[SPEAKER_02]: I love seeing the whole ecosystem, how things flow through from acquisition, all the way to post purchase.

03:08.351 –> 03:12.773
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it gives you such a holistic view of the entire business and how to make really good decisions to come forward.

03:13.433 –> 03:13.773
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah,

03:18.207 –> 03:22.889
[SPEAKER_00]: as it is of so many of us, and you call us, if you can’t balance the creative and the analytical.

03:23.470 –> 03:23.830
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

03:23.850 –> 03:24.450
[SPEAKER_00]: You’re in trouble.

03:25.090 –> 03:38.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Big trouble, and I totally agree with you about being able to see the whole of that purchase journey because for me, the number one way to improve retentionists to recruit the right people in the first place 100%.

03:38.157 –> 03:43.280
[SPEAKER_00]: Which if you’ve got separate teams on those, it can be really tricky if you’re not got that whole overview.

03:44.220 –> 03:51.821
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think like communication between e-commerce and marketing and brand partners, whatever it is, is fundamental, especially in the start-up.

03:52.322 –> 04:02.423
[SPEAKER_02]: Because nothing works in a silo, you can’t deliver this piece of content through social media or a paid ad, and then not communicate with the e-commerce team about what that learning page is supposed to look like, right?

04:02.443 –> 04:05.984
[SPEAKER_02]: You’ve just broken your entire metric and then one move right?

04:06.604 –> 04:10.345
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think communication across all those work streams is super important.

04:11.076 –> 04:18.278
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, so true, but let’s update everyone on who Colt Mia is if they’re not familiar with the business.

04:19.479 –> 04:21.600
[SPEAKER_00]: Where in the world are you and where do you sell to?

04:22.120 –> 04:22.620
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.

04:22.660 –> 04:24.341
[SPEAKER_02]: So Colt Mia’s based in the UK.

04:24.861 –> 04:27.702
[SPEAKER_02]: Our major markets are actually the U.S. and the Middle East.

04:28.282 –> 04:31.343
[SPEAKER_02]: We do ship to the UK and the EU as well.

04:32.163 –> 04:33.144
[SPEAKER_02]: But those are our main ones.

04:33.164 –> 04:33.844
[SPEAKER_02]: We actually

04:34.744 –> 04:38.647
[SPEAKER_02]: have about 240 different designers currently in the website.

04:39.127 –> 04:51.336
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re all independent designers, our team, scowers and sources the earth for different designers from Columbia, Vietnam, Turkey, Georgia, really working fashion councils there, independent designers.

04:51.876 –> 04:51.997
[SPEAKER_02]: And

04:52.757 –> 04:57.039
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of trying to figure out what is that next big designer and how can we get to them first.

04:57.099 –> 05:05.643
[SPEAKER_02]: So our whole kind of concept we go for is, you know, when you go to a wedding and you see someone wearing a beautiful dress and you go, what did you find that and they always seem to find the brands before you do?

05:06.163 –> 05:08.865
[SPEAKER_02]: Our whole ethos is that we find those brands and we deliver them to you.

05:09.525 –> 05:13.327
[SPEAKER_02]: And we also create a scaling solution for those brands as well, which is our second

05:14.307 –> 05:14.887
[SPEAKER_02]: parts of it.

05:14.907 –> 05:24.173
[SPEAKER_02]: So some of these brands are small enough that they don’t have access to things like operational systems or shipping rates that we can get to ship globally.

05:24.233 –> 05:28.436
[SPEAKER_02]: So we give them a way to raise their business in an integral space.

05:29.636 –> 05:33.619
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw on the site a lot of the products are made to order.

05:34.303 –> 05:41.847
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess when you’re working with those tiny designers, they can’t afford to have one of every one of this dress ready to go in every size.

05:42.508 –> 05:49.552
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but that must add a huge amount of complexity to customer services to conversion rate and to the outside of it.

05:49.960 –> 05:50.701
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.

05:50.781 –> 05:57.187
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the two problem that you have is one, it makes it easier for these smaller independent designers to say, this is low risk.

05:57.207 –> 06:01.471
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re not asking you to do a big wholesale order with a big platform that you may or may not sell.

06:01.531 –> 06:03.633
[SPEAKER_02]: What if that order gets canceled?

06:03.753 –> 06:10.639
[SPEAKER_02]: What if, you know, suddenly that big business goes under and they can’t fulfill that wholesale order that you suddenly have 300 pieces for, right?

06:11.340 –> 06:12.721
[SPEAKER_02]: So we take the risk off them as well.

06:12.761 –> 06:17.965
[SPEAKER_02]: We say when you get an order and we’ll bring it to, but the other side of it as well is from sustainability angle.

06:18.305 –> 06:19.846
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re not overproducing anything.

06:19.926 –> 06:22.968
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re not stuck with dead stock, which is great for the environment.

06:23.048 –> 06:24.169
[SPEAKER_02]: Also great for us as a brand.

06:24.189 –> 06:27.652
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re not trying to hawk something that we have too many of as well.

06:27.732 –> 06:32.695
[SPEAKER_02]: So it kind of works for all all three, but you’re right from a conversion rate aspect.

06:33.236 –> 06:34.597
[SPEAKER_02]: It does have more consideration.

06:35.097 –> 06:38.319
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re very lucky that the clientele that we’ve bought into the business.

06:39.420 –> 06:46.405
[SPEAKER_02]: seamless sensitive to it, which is great and I think that comes from really good brand positioning and marketing and also just finding the right customers.

06:47.125 –> 06:51.108
[SPEAKER_02]: But some of these items can take anywhere from seven days to four weeks.

06:51.749 –> 06:58.894
[SPEAKER_02]: And so making sure you really have a really good post purchase journey in there as well to make sure that there’s not that time in between that says we took your money.

07:00.074 –> 07:00.595
[SPEAKER_02]: See you later.

07:01.635 –> 07:06.839
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it’s making sure, like we all know, that the biggest killer of customers is fear of time.

07:07.380 –> 07:11.283
[SPEAKER_02]: Not communicating with them, making sure that they know this is in the Italian.

07:11.703 –> 07:13.264
[SPEAKER_02]: This is getting its final stitches.

07:13.985 –> 07:17.908
[SPEAKER_02]: This is just gone through Turkish customs and now it’s coming to you and winging its way.

07:18.348 –> 07:20.310
[SPEAKER_02]: That whole process is really, really important to us.

07:20.370 –> 07:22.832
[SPEAKER_02]: But it does make up a considerable amount of our stock.

07:22.852 –> 07:26.034
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s about 42% of brands are older men lead.

07:26.574 –> 07:29.737
[SPEAKER_02]: So, they’re either made to order or a pre-order space.

07:30.748 –> 07:36.794
[SPEAKER_00]: But it just has so many benefits on every front apart from immediate customer satisfaction about it.

07:36.814 –> 07:47.346
[SPEAKER_00]: But like you said, if you get that post purchase journey right, then there’s so much more excited to open the parcel and so much more into the product when it arrives than they would have been if it arrived next day.

07:47.946 –> 07:48.587
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.

07:48.627 –> 07:56.774
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, there’s definitely some CRO in front of that as well, which is making sure that’s super clear before purchase, making sure that we’re getting the right measurements.

07:56.834 –> 08:02.460
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you’re ordering this and it’s going to take four weeks, you obviously don’t want to get it realize it’s the wrong size and then have to send it back.

08:02.480 –> 08:04.421
[SPEAKER_02]: And with another four weeks for another one, right?

08:05.062 –> 08:07.965
[SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a lot of pre-sale work that goes on there as well.

08:08.915 –> 08:14.716
[SPEAKER_00]: And we’re kind of, we’re scurting around the product, but let’s get really clear on what the product is.

08:14.796 –> 08:17.337
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s women’s fashion in some kind of things.

08:18.177 –> 08:24.618
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, our number one category is always event where it’s a really big moment for us.

08:25.178 –> 08:30.760
[SPEAKER_02]: We have some beautiful designers, especially at a Vietnam, some really gorgeous gown designers like 216, IHF.

08:33.160 –> 08:35.521
[SPEAKER_02]: actually could sure have be clothing, beautiful brands.

08:35.561 –> 08:38.802
[SPEAKER_02]: If you haven’t heard of them, please feel free to come have a take a look at them.

08:38.822 –> 08:42.704
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re really, really stunning designs and some brands from India as well.

08:42.724 –> 08:45.765
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Debbie by Gabriella is also a really nice formal wear brand.

08:45.785 –> 08:46.425
[SPEAKER_02]: We have as well.

08:47.226 –> 08:48.426
[SPEAKER_02]: Really good wedding guest as well.

08:48.626 –> 08:50.107
[SPEAKER_02]: If anyone’s looking to go to weddings.

08:50.907 –> 09:03.836
[SPEAKER_02]: But that’s our bread and butter, but we do also have a plethora of somewhere event where we do beautiful accessories and shoes, and shoes fabulous as a beautiful belly flat brand, which is being gorgeous.

09:04.476 –> 09:09.479
[SPEAKER_02]: And bags we have beautiful ones that come from Lebanon on our hand stitch, like Sarah’s bag.

09:10.100 –> 09:13.322
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s also one of the greatest things I love about working at Colt Meera as well as

09:15.143 –> 09:19.807
[SPEAKER_02]: find are also essentially need to fit into one of our values in some ways.

09:19.827 –> 09:30.376
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have four values for the site, which is called local code called eco, cold conscious, and cold power, and essentially means it in some way they are socially conscious, sustainable,

09:30.736 –> 09:35.960
[SPEAKER_02]: they empower minorities or they do some kind of heritage practice that they preserve within their industry.

09:36.581 –> 09:41.765
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it’s really interesting to see the stories about the least brands and how they weave this into their work.

09:42.426 –> 09:50.632
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean Sarah’s bag is one of them where they only hire ex female convicts to beat the bags to make sure they have a way to get back into the work force as well.

09:51.052 –> 09:52.774
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it’s like a really cool initiative.

09:53.548 –> 10:13.835
[SPEAKER_00]: And it’s all kind of piles on top of each other in terms of how you get the customers bought and to become advocates and fans of Coltmea, because there’s the exclusivity, there’s the no one else has got this, there’s the sustainability, there’s the, I’ve got a wait for it to arrive, which can be super exciting when it’s pivoted the right way.

10:14.676 –> 10:18.977
[SPEAKER_00]: You must have a really, really passionate customer base.

10:21.438 –> 10:23.219
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very passionate customer.

10:23.380 –> 10:24.861
[SPEAKER_02]: Very passionate team as well.

10:25.461 –> 10:32.166
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that when you have teams who are passionate about the values that they’re working towards as well, the output so is better.

10:32.487 –> 10:32.867
[SPEAKER_02]: Be right.

10:32.887 –> 10:38.812
[SPEAKER_02]: The customers we have the community within Coltonier there, they’re very gung-ho about the designers they love as well.

10:39.212 –> 10:43.495
[SPEAKER_02]: They can be very devoted to a designer they find wants them there and that becomes their favorite one.

10:43.515 –> 10:45.437
[SPEAKER_02]: They come back and buy it again and again and again.

10:46.268 –> 10:48.709
[SPEAKER_00]: And you’ll roll as head of e-commerce.

10:48.769 –> 10:51.290
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that encompass a notting compass?

10:51.330 –> 10:52.350
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are your lines?

10:53.111 –> 10:54.431
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a very good question.

10:56.852 –> 11:00.994
[SPEAKER_02]: I think most e-commerce people, that’s a blurry question sometimes as well.

11:01.614 –> 11:07.936
[SPEAKER_02]: But technically speaking, so I run across our paid media, e-commerce and operations teams.

11:08.056 –> 11:14.139
[SPEAKER_02]: So I essentially, like we talked about before, make sure that funnels all the way from how did you find us into,

11:15.039 –> 11:16.743
[SPEAKER_02]: is that sale nice and easy for you?

11:17.324 –> 11:20.069
[SPEAKER_02]: To the post of, did you receive it easily?

11:20.109 –> 11:21.552
[SPEAKER_02]: Was the customer service good?

11:21.792 –> 11:23.536
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you meet need to make a return if so?

11:23.556 –> 11:24.999
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that nice and smooth for you as well?

11:26.023 –> 11:30.786
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we’ve talked in the intro about how the business is five extra in the last couple of years.

11:30.846 –> 11:46.857
[SPEAKER_00]: Yours on the fast growth list, that’s complicated enough when you’re selling product, you’re designing yourself to keep stuff in stock, to get the marketing in line, to fulfill everything, and keep the ops running.

11:47.557 –> 11:48.398
[SPEAKER_00]: When you’re doing,

11:49.138 –> 11:56.483
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s a market place, it’s also a drop shape and you’re discovering all these, there’s quite a lot of merchandising and buying going on in the mix as well.

11:57.063 –> 12:02.847
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it’s globally sourced and globally distributed.

12:03.728 –> 12:09.952
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m guessing there was some level of complex, there’s almost the most complex thing to enable that growth is what happens on the back end.

12:10.592 –> 12:11.052
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

12:11.413 –> 12:16.316
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I talk about this a lot in my day-to-day, previous before working at Colt Me, I’ve only worked in.

12:17.137 –> 12:22.040
[SPEAKER_02]: Easy B2C models where we have the warehouse, there’s a stock, I said it out here, it comes back.

12:22.580 –> 12:26.863
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s usually mostly domestic, or you’re doing a little bit of international, that’s pretty much it.

12:27.604 –> 12:37.671
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re doing mostly international, mostly third-party, so it’s usually parcels going from places like Vietnam to Saudi, or it’s going from Turkey to the U.S.,

12:39.572 –> 12:46.281
[SPEAKER_02]: lots of layers of complexity to that, um, for anybody who’s ever worked in that kind of operational side, there’s lots of customs you’ve got to figure out.

12:46.861 –> 12:51.487
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve also had a very big year when it comes to customs and tariffs, especially for the US.

12:52.088 –> 12:54.911
[SPEAKER_02]: I know more about tariffs now than I ever wanted to do my entire life.

12:55.432 –> 12:55.632
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,

12:56.893 –> 12:57.954
[SPEAKER_02]: But you make it work, right?

12:58.655 –> 13:00.256
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s very complex as a solution.

13:00.756 –> 13:08.821
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to think about who’s going to be the MLR, so the merchant of record across all these different regions, who’s responsible for the tax, and how does that customs paperwork come through?

13:09.381 –> 13:14.205
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re selling it as cult mere, but you’re selling it as the designer from that country and need it for tax purposes.

13:14.265 –> 13:17.487
[SPEAKER_02]: So should those commercial invoices even say cult mere, or should they say?

13:19.588 –> 13:37.041
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s a highly complex scenario and that as we’ve grown we’ve had to be proactive and reactive because we’ve reached challenges that we, I didn’t even know you could encounter, it wasn’t even my bread and butter to work in this like very cross border operational sense and wasn’t anybody’s in our team.

13:38.102 –> 13:41.063
[SPEAKER_02]: We were really lucky to have consultant help from a time to time.

13:41.103 –> 13:52.966
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a great consultant working with us right now actually Keith DiPri who is amazing and really looking at these places and really learning from others who have worked in these big market places spaces is your best source of knowledge.

13:53.346 –> 13:56.467
[SPEAKER_02]: We were talking to people who had worked at far fetch and how they worked across all these.

13:57.087 –> 14:02.632
[SPEAKER_02]: the party border situations, and anyone else had worked in those situations had been really helpful for us.

14:03.252 –> 14:13.321
[SPEAKER_02]: But as you scale there as well, and you’re scaling as a sustainable business, you have to make sure there’s operation as a sustainable inefficiency, but also generally sustainable as well.

14:13.381 –> 14:22.128
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve had programs and people come into evaluate all our carbon, for example, and we became positive luxury certified, which is the

14:23.189 –> 14:39.002
[SPEAKER_02]: the the mark of a a does a luxury business for sustainability and through that we had to check every single one of our designers down to what threads do they use and where they get those threads and how are they died and are they sustainable in any way.

14:39.362 –> 14:44.183
[SPEAKER_02]: So you kind of have so many complex layers to it, but you have to think about how it goes across border too.

14:44.263 –> 14:48.264
[SPEAKER_02]: So is there a way that you can consolidate shipments so that it’s not making two flights?

14:48.704 –> 14:55.966
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a way that you can make sure that the packaging is small enough and sustainable enough to make sure that that’s nice and efficient too as well?

14:56.726 –> 15:05.029
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of complex layers that I think I could go on for forever and it’s been a lot of problem solving over the years, but I’m very glad to say it’s

15:06.849 –> 15:09.610
[SPEAKER_02]: Great, some print plays right now, but it’s, yeah, you’re right.

15:09.650 –> 15:13.731
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s a very complicated business models in some ways, and a very easy one and others.

15:14.372 –> 15:23.695
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to the, I think the physical logistics is relatively straightforward for the layman to get their head around, you know.

15:23.995 –> 15:29.117
[SPEAKER_00]: But it’s that it’s when you come into the, the tax and the legals and the customs.

15:30.057 –> 15:39.700
[SPEAKER_00]: all of that bit then is the point that there’s a few points in e-commerce where in my opinion you’re a muppet if you don’t immediately reach for the expert.

15:40.140 –> 15:45.422
[SPEAKER_00]: You know there’s a lot of places where you can stumble through yourselves but that has to be a place where you’ve just got to go.

15:45.862 –> 15:54.705
[SPEAKER_00]: I need someone who understands the language because the wordings weird enough and then who can point out like how many of us would stumble through that without realizing that

15:55.405 –> 15:59.886
[SPEAKER_00]: The legal entity that you put on the paperwork is going to have massive ramifications.

16:00.346 –> 16:03.906
[SPEAKER_02]: 100% and I don’t think enough people ask for help.

16:04.507 –> 16:07.607
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is such like ask subject matter experts.

16:08.067 –> 16:22.310
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s a biggest thing I’ve told people in teams that I’ve built over the years, which range from like five people to 20 and I, rocking horizontal to other departments is so many people I’ve seen over the years try to act like, well, and I want to do it this time, like,

16:24.190 –> 16:25.651
[SPEAKER_02]: you hired them to know more than you.

16:26.172 –> 16:28.133
[SPEAKER_02]: If you knew the same as them, you wouldn’t have hired them.

16:28.413 –> 16:29.634
[SPEAKER_02]: So let them lead.

16:30.215 –> 16:33.537
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to hear from them too, because this isn’t my air of expertise.

16:33.637 –> 16:36.920
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m happy to say I would like to hear their opinion and get some help on that.

16:36.940 –> 16:39.882
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don’t think enough people do that, especially across fashion industries.

16:40.603 –> 16:47.410
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it can be, it can be so limiting if you’re not going, you know, if you’re trying to work that yourself because you’ll make mistakes and it will take longer.

16:47.711 –> 16:57.842
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you’ve got parcels going all over the place, all over the world, you know, you can’t every day you’re making more errors if you’re not fixing that quickly.

16:58.250 –> 17:13.167
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to move quickly, yeah, you don’t want to let that fall into the backlog, which is why I’m, we’re very lucky to have had some consultant helps across the year in these big subject matter experts that I previously had no knowledge of all at all.

17:13.988 –> 17:20.271
[SPEAKER_00]: And you mentioned that you’re really big as a company in both the middle and middle east, even in the US.

17:20.711 –> 17:26.573
[SPEAKER_00]: Was that always the plan in the business, or was it we found a hot spring of customers and we’re gonna go and chase it?

17:26.873 –> 17:27.774
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly right, yeah.

17:28.314 –> 17:34.176
[SPEAKER_02]: So originally, when I started in 2022, the major markets were the UK and the US.

17:34.576 –> 17:35.937
[SPEAKER_02]: US was always doing really well.

17:36.357 –> 17:38.138
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a nice burgeoning market for it there.

17:38.898 –> 17:50.664
[SPEAKER_02]: UK was a little bit slower, but still a pretty good market at the time, and then from that, I mean, one of the biggest things that I think everyone can take from is, daughter is king.

17:50.784 –> 18:04.571
[SPEAKER_02]: Find the daughter and really take a close look at it because what we found out of seeing these some of these UK addresses, though, is that a lot of the billing addresses were actually based in the Middle East somewhere, and we realized, okay, that’s interesting, they clearly have some sort of crossover from here.

18:05.271 –> 18:15.340
[SPEAKER_02]: We engage with a lot of subject matter experts in certain regions found out they’d do a lot of their traveling across borders, especially through summer and to the EU and the UK.

18:15.400 –> 18:20.164
[SPEAKER_02]: So actually these customers we thought we had from UK were mostly from the Middle East.

18:20.885 –> 18:23.026
[SPEAKER_02]: But it came with its ups and downs as well.

18:23.046 –> 18:25.428
[SPEAKER_02]: We first tried paid marketing from that.

18:26.209 –> 18:30.412
[SPEAKER_02]: to pull them in and nothing stick, and we couldn’t really figure out why.

18:31.173 –> 18:41.281
[SPEAKER_02]: So pull it back, try to regroup, and then just realize we were again completely in the wrong season for them, because like we just found out, they’re not in the middle east through summer.

18:41.401 –> 18:42.281
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re they’re traveling.

18:42.322 –> 18:43.683
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are we sending paid ads there?

18:44.343 –> 18:49.468
[SPEAKER_02]: when they were not around yet and maybe they would have shut in summer if they had more brand trust with us, right?

18:49.888 –> 18:53.232
[SPEAKER_02]: But they hadn’t been introduced as little and we’re hitting them when they’re not even there.

18:53.952 –> 19:04.042
[SPEAKER_02]: So we pulled it back up and went to and suddenly like same ads, same audience groups, everything like that changed the creative to more of a win to stuff, and it just took off.

19:04.983 –> 19:07.705
[SPEAKER_02]: We realized what they really loved was all that evening,

19:09.447 –> 19:21.193
[SPEAKER_02]: They have so many formal events they were in that region as well and then we sort of took it up from there, but yeah, it’s I think listening to the data and I also think not being afraid to stop and regroup is also important as well.

19:22.114 –> 19:34.023
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so, I’m really kind of surprised and in awe of the fact you worked out, it was the wrong time of year, because I ran as the audience probably already know this, but I ran an ads agency for 10 years.

19:34.463 –> 19:41.308
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don’t think we ever, ever turn round to client and said, it’s the wrong time of year, we’ve worked out now, it’s the wrong time of year for this.

19:41.568 –> 19:44.971
[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s pause until winter, until summer, and we’ll try again.

19:45.291 –> 19:47.453
[SPEAKER_00]: So it takes some serious,

19:48.113 –> 20:05.567
[SPEAKER_00]: sanity and cleverness to go at a hold on a minute it’s the wrong time of year let’s pause and we’ll retry rather than thinking the creatives are on the targetings are on the platforms wrong and you could have so easily missed that opportunity without looking at the data talking to the experts and really getting to grips with it all.

20:06.147 –> 20:15.869
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that we had, we had the safety net of already knowing that the US is doing relevant, wasn’t like, by pulling back on this region, we’re losing a whole gap of sales, we already had.

20:16.149 –> 20:21.871
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn’t have them yet, so we had the time to settle back and think, okay, what have we done wrong?

20:22.031 –> 20:22.591
[SPEAKER_02]: What’s right?

20:23.071 –> 20:27.292
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, like I said, talking to subject matter experts in the region, that was one of the first things we learned.

20:27.832 –> 20:31.793
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is so interesting now, because now, years and years later,

20:32.613 –> 20:41.538
[SPEAKER_02]: we market to the more you’re around and we have the same impacts, but we need to get them to trust us with a really easy in for them, which is I’m already at home.

20:41.778 –> 20:42.499
[SPEAKER_02]: I need a gown.

20:42.819 –> 20:48.142
[SPEAKER_02]: Our whole thing is that we make very specialty gowns that no one else had, which was had a high affinity with them.

20:48.822 –> 20:52.164
[SPEAKER_02]: And then from there from the next summer we’re like, great, you know our gowns are good.

20:52.985 –> 20:55.546
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you need dresses for your summer traveling?

20:55.666 –> 20:57.447
[SPEAKER_02]: We have some extra stuff that we can bring you back

20:59.695 –> 21:14.317
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes so, so much sense that that, you know, to get the, the launch needed to be at the perfect time of year, when they’re on the ground in the Middle East with all the events going on with the time to see the ads game decay.

21:14.617 –> 21:20.502
[SPEAKER_00]: again on the platform, they’re not suddenly somewhere else where they’re not going to see the ad, so it makes so much sense.

21:20.882 –> 21:35.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Any other advice you give anyone, because I know you certainly hear in the UK, there’s lots of talk about expansion into the Middle East, so any other tips you can give to save anyone from making an error or to help them accelerate, that you’re willing to share, of course.

21:36.234 –> 21:40.119
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think, honestly, market research is your best friend.

21:40.599 –> 21:42.642
[SPEAKER_02]: Don’t go with, in with assumptions about anything.

21:42.742 –> 21:56.938
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s one of the things that killed us originally and that we pulled out is that we had of these assumptions like, oh, they might like this or I think they like this or even that we should be sending stuff that was super, super conservative to them because we’re like, well, that’s why I think we did.

21:57.598 –> 22:05.345
[SPEAKER_02]: market research, talk to subject matter experts in the region, talk to general people if you have any network across there who might shop at similar sites to what you’re marketing, right?

22:05.926 –> 22:13.472
[SPEAKER_02]: And we learn from that some really key moments and then it’s just AB testing and that testing cycle is your best friend.

22:14.013 –> 22:23.000
[SPEAKER_02]: You don’t have to go all and you can do small amounts, make a testing budget that’s 90% BAU, 10% testing and then find a rollout plan that rolls.

22:23.961 –> 22:29.205
[SPEAKER_02]: what’s getting hooked back into your main budget, things like that, always be moving and adapting.

22:29.305 –> 22:30.486
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s the key thing.

22:30.546 –> 22:34.269
[SPEAKER_02]: You can’t even trust with a lot of these markets that what you knew a year ago, even still works.

22:34.870 –> 22:36.231
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re always developing.

22:36.271 –> 22:37.652
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re always changing.

22:37.872 –> 22:47.160
[SPEAKER_02]: Like anything like the UK, like the US, anything else you just make, make sure that you’re setting your foundations well and then constantly prejudesting what you know.

22:48.252 –> 22:50.513
[SPEAKER_00]: great advice for any market quite frankly.

22:50.553 –> 22:50.934
[SPEAKER_00]: Love that.

22:50.974 –> 22:51.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Holly.

22:52.574 –> 23:01.879
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you had missed it to me before we hit record that you are quite deep in the world of AI and how AI can be used effectively and usefully within the business.

23:02.220 –> 23:06.502
[SPEAKER_00]: So how are you, how are you approaching bringing AI into cult mail?

23:07.270 –> 23:07.670
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

23:07.850 –> 23:27.223
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think my biggest thing that we were talking about before is that you shouldn’t just use AI for AI’s sake, and I think that a lot of the conversations have been had around Creative work, and I think that for us we try to keep most of the creative work in house we’re possible, but I think there’s some key things around Admin, and it can be the most innocuous stuff for us, which could be

23:28.083 –> 23:36.389
[SPEAKER_02]: reviewing shipping and tax bills and making sure that we’ve been billed at all the right markers that were supposed to come through and if not going ahead and submitting disputes.

23:36.989 –> 23:44.654
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s an innocuous part of the role that no one wants to spend five hours doing right and like we’re talking about is that effort to impact rate ratio.

23:44.674 –> 23:50.678
[SPEAKER_02]: So is this AI actually saving you time in the long term and could I be doing better things with my time?

23:51.038 –> 23:52.519
[SPEAKER_02]: And that’s an arrow 100%.

23:52.679 –> 23:54.400
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also know that that’s really important.

23:54.420 –> 23:56.422
[SPEAKER_02]: I could be getting big shipping refunds.

23:56.502 –> 23:56.762
[SPEAKER_02]: I could

23:57.222 –> 23:59.463
[SPEAKER_02]: be getting taxed or I’m going to different HS code, right?

24:00.123 –> 24:05.065
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you have really simple stuff across like we have such a big backlog of products.

24:05.125 –> 24:08.666
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s about I think nine thousand live at the moment.

24:09.367 –> 24:10.687
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s how does a customer coming in.

24:10.707 –> 24:14.528
[SPEAKER_02]: We obviously create curated sections of this is your holiday shop.

24:16.129 –> 24:17.230
[SPEAKER_02]: wedding shop, whatnot.

24:17.790 –> 24:26.874
[SPEAKER_02]: But as a customer like, how do I find that dress I need to quite quickly, AI is helped us with surfacing and discovery so much through that, which has been really, really helpful.

24:27.414 –> 24:29.215
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s a lot across the board to be honest.

24:29.355 –> 24:34.917
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, name a section, it’s something that in some way I’m trying to check to see if AI can help us.

24:35.618 –> 24:37.759
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, I think the key thing we came back to right is,

24:38.539 –> 24:42.542
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re not just saying we should use AI, I think that’s where a lot of companies fail.

24:43.063 –> 24:53.231
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s about being pragmatic about, would taking this off my plate or would doing it in this way either create more sales or save me more time.

24:53.671 –> 24:54.812
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s that effort to impact.

24:57.795 –> 25:02.599
[SPEAKER_01]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

25:02.739 –> 25:04.020
[SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

25:10.677 –> 25:12.879
[SPEAKER_01]: Each time it’s time for the top tips round.

25:15.442 –> 25:20.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love this section because me and I’ll listen some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

25:20.688 –> 25:22.410
[SPEAKER_00]: Holly, are you ready for the top tips?

25:23.030 –> 25:23.411
[SPEAKER_02]: Peffett.

25:23.911 –> 25:25.233
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the book top tip.

25:25.353 –> 25:32.361
[SPEAKER_00]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

25:33.259 –> 25:37.441
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say inspired by Muddy Kagan, Kagan Cagan.

25:37.941 –> 25:43.084
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s actually a product management book, but I think it has a lot of crossover to especially e-cumb departments as well.

25:43.104 –> 25:48.966
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he does some really interesting chapters about focusing on your staff as missionary versus mercenaries as well.

25:49.026 –> 25:57.390
[SPEAKER_02]: So essentially having them just take the books and do the task or be actually invested in what they’re doing and wanting to repel things further.

25:58.690 –> 26:00.791
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, that’s a tough one to get right.

26:01.191 –> 26:02.852
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, interesting.

26:03.213 –> 26:06.054
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the track is well by our product manager there, sorry.

26:06.334 –> 26:08.075
[SPEAKER_02]: Me or I think it’s a big shout out to her.

26:08.375 –> 26:09.476
[SPEAKER_02]: She’s the one who got me into that book.

26:10.312 –> 26:10.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.

26:10.813 –> 26:16.738
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

26:17.558 –> 26:25.625
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, traffic and marketing, I’m all about testing cycles, testing, AB testing, pressure test, everything, nothing should ever say the same.

26:26.486 –> 26:28.067
[SPEAKER_02]: You should be constantly cycling out.

26:29.239 –> 26:31.782
[SPEAKER_00]: So true, especially in these ever-competitive times.

26:32.323 –> 26:33.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cannot.

26:33.204 –> 26:35.427
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot, certain, forget.

26:35.607 –> 26:42.736
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I wouldn’t trust the stuff I know in 2022, but now, I think there’s the world as a complete different place every few months.

26:43.877 –> 26:44.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

26:44.858 –> 26:54.120
[SPEAKER_00]: The talk tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone-up, or just a way of working is there a call little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day.

26:55.080 –> 27:00.002
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we could say Claudia, I’m a big, Claude co-work person.

27:00.542 –> 27:09.624
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s connected to my everything, but I’m also, I love fixer fixes also an AI meeting recorder, email organizer.

27:14.425 –> 27:14.636
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.

27:15.072 –> 27:16.573
[SPEAKER_00]: nice to check out.

27:16.593 –> 27:21.816
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that’s where everyone’s already having a look at Claude, but I’ve been not touching that.

27:21.876 –> 27:27.199
[SPEAKER_00]: The carbon top tip, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

27:27.860 –> 27:41.028
[SPEAKER_02]: Who, I think one of the best things for us is, well, not so much a tip, but what we figured out is what books now, what works at scale, so shipping and packaging was a really big thing for us.

27:41.608 –> 27:42.549
[SPEAKER_02]: And when it comes down to the

27:44.670 –> 27:56.508
[SPEAKER_02]: how big that is and how much packaging doesn’t need five layers of things that go inside that or can I have one really big study mailabag that actually protects that properly and I think about thinking that the waste there was really big for us.

27:57.274 –> 28:01.536
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sometimes it’s not about changing from one type of thing to another.

28:01.576 –> 28:04.878
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s about getting, actually, do we need minimizing the amount?

28:05.238 –> 28:06.259
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.

28:06.279 –> 28:11.762
[SPEAKER_00]: To your paper and a plastic bag and a box under this and the other, yeah.

28:11.822 –> 28:18.946
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and five tags that are attached to the dress and another strap over here, just minimizing anything that can’t go straight on your body.

28:21.171 –> 28:22.132
[SPEAKER_00]: excellent advice.

28:22.512 –> 28:24.693
[SPEAKER_00]: As it’s been throughout, Holly, thank you so much.

28:24.733 –> 28:29.917
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we say goodbye, could you please let the listeners know where they can find you and your business on the web and social media?

28:30.537 –> 28:31.017
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.

28:31.057 –> 28:34.059
[SPEAKER_02]: You can find us at copmea.com or at copmea.

28:34.820 –> 28:36.081
[SPEAKER_00]: Simple as that, everyone.

28:36.141 –> 28:38.742
[SPEAKER_00]: Holly, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

28:38.842 –> 28:44.226
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s been great chatting with you and learning about what you’ve been up to and I wish you all the best for the rest of 26.

28:45.086 –> 28:45.987
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, you too.

28:51.958 –> 29:02.880
[SPEAKER_00]: lots of great tips and advice from Holly, I think for me, it was kind of the big takeaway for me is the clarity of her approach to things.

29:03.441 –> 29:14.603
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it’s like let’s find, let’s look at the data, let’s find the thing which actually needs improving, whether it’s in logistics, whether it’s in expansion into the Middle East, whether it’s

29:15.283 –> 29:19.786
[SPEAKER_00]: in packaging or AI, you know, whatever bit it is that needs improving.

29:19.806 –> 29:28.211
[SPEAKER_00]: Let’s find the right way to do that, including finding the right person on the team, finding the right at Source Dex, but finding the right piece of AI or automation.

29:28.231 –> 29:31.793
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it’s a serious clarity going on there.

29:31.813 –> 29:33.994
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, all the Shishishishishishick going on there.

29:34.234 –> 29:40.858
[SPEAKER_00]: Serious clarity and you can see why she’s the sort of person you want on your team if you are looking to five X in a couple of years.

29:42.159 –> 29:45.341
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so what else can you get from us?

29:45.461 –> 29:54.907
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can get your hands on our notes about this episode on the full transcript, those top tips and links by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.

29:54.927 –> 30:00.571
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also use a direct episode short links that’s ECMP.info for such the number of this episode.

30:00.591 –> 30:05.614
[SPEAKER_00]: When you get to the website, please do add yourself to the Climbing Thomas newsletter list.

30:06.014 –> 30:09.637
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don’t miss out on any of the cool things we share with you by email.

30:10.217 –> 30:13.319
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you like this episode, then I’ve got a recommendation for you.

30:13.619 –> 30:28.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a listen to episode 262, so we’re going back in time a little bit here, but it’s a super good episode where I’m chatting with another fashion success story, Needle and Thread, which I’m chatting to Mark Liddington from that team all about how Needle and Thread do it.

30:29.306 –> 30:34.189
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can find all our fashion episodes via ECMP.info for slash fashion.

30:34.829 –> 30:40.393
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for so much for tuning in to this and every episode that you do of the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

30:40.693 –> 30:53.041
[SPEAKER_00]: I bring you a new one every week as I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners just like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

30:53.481 –> 30:58.605
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you know someone this show can help please tell them to listen to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

30:58.945 –> 31:01.747
[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

31:04.947 –> 31:08.271
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

31:08.711 –> 31:13.597
[SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash podcast.