00:00.031 –> 00:09.884
[SPEAKER_01]: operation where does EECOM sit and the question I suggest people answer is not what does an EECOM platform have to do functiony but what is the role of an EECOM as platform in our systems architecture?

00:12.727 –> 00:15.711
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s the EECOM Earth’s master plan podcast.

00:15.731 –> 00:19.716
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a help you solve your marketing problems and grow your EECOM Earth’s business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the EECOM Earth’s sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

00:31.317 –> 00:33.839
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome, it’s great to have you here.

00:33.940 –> 00:37.843
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

00:38.684 –> 00:46.812
[SPEAKER_02]: Insanely, we have never had this guest on the show for a whole episode before, which is a disservice to you, to me and to him.

00:47.273 –> 00:48.854
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are correcting that today.

00:48.894 –> 00:57.983
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, he has been on the show a couple of times, sharing a bit of advice in some of our top tips episodes, but we’ve never had him on for a whole show.

00:57.963 –> 01:04.876
[SPEAKER_02]: So this episode is going to be all about the tech stack and re-platforming.

01:05.416 –> 01:17.338
[SPEAKER_02]: So what would you do episode and the what would you do question is if you were re-platforming in 2026 and we’ll be going through tech, we’ll be going through managing the bigger opinions above you.

01:17.318 –> 01:30.416
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ll go through managing everybody else, we’ll go through change management, reducing friction, we’ll talk a bit about Shopify, lots of cool stuff coming up in this episode that’s really going to help you out with your text acts this year.

01:30.937 –> 01:37.386
[SPEAKER_02]: Please listen to the end of the episodes you don’t miss out on my guest’s top tips and my own take on everything we discuss.

01:42.074 –> 01:44.096
[SPEAKER_02]: and now to introduce our special guest.

01:44.537 –> 01:49.743
[SPEAKER_02]: James Gerd is the digital jugular and host of the Inside Commerce podcast.

01:50.103 –> 01:55.750
[SPEAKER_02]: He has over 20 years experience helping B2C and B2B brands deliver Ecommerce growth.

01:56.150 –> 02:03.119
[SPEAKER_02]: Primarily through tech stack optimization from agency and tech selection through two team training and project leadership.

02:03.159 –> 02:03.920
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, James.

02:04.320 –> 02:06.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Chloe, a lovely chat to you again.

02:06.042 –> 02:06.883
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for joining me all.

02:06.863 –> 02:09.207
[SPEAKER_02]: always a pleasure to catch up with you, sir.

02:09.468 –> 02:10.810
[SPEAKER_02]: And very excited.

02:10.850 –> 02:15.679
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re getting you on the podcast for the first ever proper time today, which is long overdue.

02:15.899 –> 02:18.764
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I’m excited as well because you are the queen of podcasts in an e-com.

02:18.985 –> 02:20.187
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is awesome.

02:20.347 –> 02:23.553
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m happy to be on it and hope the listeners get something valuable for them.

02:23.573 –> 02:24.334
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I think they will.

02:24.435 –> 02:30.205
[SPEAKER_02]: As you and I both know,

02:30.185 –> 02:38.570
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at a panel last week for the AGC’s Shofa HC Swanky and one of my clients as a, and I worked with them last year, Liv’s Kitchen Republic platform.

02:38.590 –> 02:43.063
[SPEAKER_01]: He said to me, I don’t understand why anybody would willingly do this as a job repeatedly.

02:45.355 –> 02:49.384
[SPEAKER_02]: Back in the day, I also did vaguely similar to what you do now.

02:49.645 –> 02:53.795
[SPEAKER_02]: When life was a lot simpler, and I had to give it up because it was just too much.

02:53.815 –> 02:55.759
[SPEAKER_02]: So I take my hat off to you for being out for doing this.

02:56.742 –> 03:01.593
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we get into the nitty gritty of re-platforming, how did you end up in the world of e-commerce?

03:01.633 –> 03:03.718
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m not sure as a question I’ve ever actually asked you.

03:03.698 –> 03:07.688
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I’ll give you the short answer, not the war and peace, so people don’t fall to sleep.

03:07.728 –> 03:10.435
[SPEAKER_01]: But fun enough, I’ve had this conversation for a few people last week.

03:10.455 –> 03:15.667
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it is a, I got to a point where I didn’t enjoy being an employee in an agency.

03:15.708 –> 03:18.735
[SPEAKER_01]: I worked for an agency that delivered projects that ran digital marketing.

03:18.795 –> 03:21.201
[SPEAKER_01]: I headed up the account management of smart marketing.

03:21.282 –> 03:22.745
[SPEAKER_01]: didn’t actually enjoy.

03:22.765 –> 03:28.197
[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t think I was well suited to being a senior leader in an agency environment.

03:28.217 –> 03:36.214
[SPEAKER_01]: It was about recognizing what I like and don’t like and actually what I do like is being able to choose what I do and being in control of what I do versus having to deliver what something else needs me to.

03:36.836 –> 03:41.265
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that personality bit of me shy away from that pressure of the agency.

03:41.245 –> 03:52.235
[SPEAKER_01]: and I went solo and I kind of winged it to see whether it work and I was luckily I had a decent enough network that I build up through my days previously working with the consultancy crew.

03:52.936 –> 04:00.063
[SPEAKER_01]: And I picked up a few projects and I realized I really liked our life, the ability to choose what I do, work with really cool brands, and also be able to select what I don’t do.

04:00.243 –> 04:03.626
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that’s massively important as an independent consultant.

04:03.786 –> 04:10.172
[SPEAKER_01]: I can be very strict about the type of project I don’t want to work on whereas you work for an agency, you can’t be like that because it’s disruptive.

04:10.237 –> 04:22.418
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that bit of picking the right projects to work on, which I think the smaller the business is, and you and I both are very solo businesses, it becomes ever more critical, doesn’t it?

04:22.478 –> 04:30.912
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you are probably doing what we do in order to enjoy it and therefore, working on a difficult project that you don’t enjoy.

04:30.892 –> 04:33.339
[SPEAKER_02]: And difficult and enjoy a two very different factors.

04:33.540 –> 04:37.271
[SPEAKER_02]: I should say in that, you know, they’re all difficult, but they’re not difficult difficult.

04:37.311 –> 04:41.543
[SPEAKER_02]: And before I take us down that rabbit hole James, let me get us back to our actual topic.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You’re here to do a one of our what would you do episodes and your chosen what would you do is if you were embarking on a replat form in 2026.

04:51.167 –> 05:00.006
[SPEAKER_02]: So before we actually get into what to do if you were embarking on a replat form in 2026, should one be replat forming in 2026?

05:00.687 –> 05:02.311
[SPEAKER_02]: Let’s ask you that question first.

05:02.471 –> 05:03.413
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it worth doing?

05:03.393 –> 05:03.794
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

05:03.814 –> 05:09.082
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like Mark for those of my advantages, like Mastermind to your chosen specialist subject is.

05:09.622 –> 05:11.345
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you want to pay our Chloe?

05:11.385 –> 05:12.867
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s one hell of a question to start with.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Isn’t it?

05:13.148 –> 05:13.708
[SPEAKER_01]: Let’s see, Mark.

05:13.869 –> 05:20.999
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like a whole podcast series, but I guess what I mean is, what are the reasons why it’s good to repack form?

05:21.180 –> 05:23.844
[SPEAKER_02]: What should you be thinking about before you go?

05:23.864 –> 05:26.768
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to do an incredibly difficult project this year.

05:26.748 –> 05:30.632
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the most important thing is this is you have to have a reason to need to replact form.

05:30.732 –> 05:36.318
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don’t have a valid business reason and a business case then you’re doing it for no clear reason or for wrong intention.

05:36.358 –> 05:52.595
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are typical, there are common signposts when a business is on the wrong text stack and just to caveat that it doesn’t mean that your e-commerce platform is wrong, it could be that this text stack that it sits in and around is wrong and it’s constraining your operation, it’s impeding road maps and growth plans.

05:53.155 –> 05:55.017
[SPEAKER_01]: But the

05:54.997 –> 06:03.048
[SPEAKER_01]: So the cost is scaling too fast as you grow because the amount of support maintenance you need, the amount of technical fixes, amount of plug-ins, all that stuff.

06:03.088 –> 06:09.076
[SPEAKER_01]: And so actually it’s not just your uppacks, but more cap-packs is coming in and expected and it’s unsustainable.

06:09.817 –> 06:14.464
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be that you’re in a platform where your feature set is falling behind where marked leaders are.

06:14.804 –> 06:19.030
[SPEAKER_01]: We’ll talk about the likes of Shopify, for example, in this inevitably.

06:19.010 –> 06:35.652
[SPEAKER_01]: but there are certain platforms that are really pushing R&D ahead rapidly and they’re investing massively and therefore the feature gap is growing and their cost of then turning on those features through custom development or other third party tools and the licenses becomes prohibitive and then it is yet its process, it’s where

06:35.632 –> 06:54.259
[SPEAKER_01]: you cannot effectively execute the way your business needs to do processes, whether it’s around product data uploads and publishes or it’s around order management, with our creating a Frankenstein that is unsupportable or is painful or having to hack processes of the business users don’t want to follow because they’re a pain in the ass to manage and scale.

06:54.740 –> 07:01.690
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are the norm of things where if any one of those is true, that then gives you like a credible reason

07:01.788 –> 07:08.358
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the simplicity of that, if it’s costing the business, the opportunity cost, the financial cost or the efficiency cost.

07:09.359 –> 07:10.861
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes it seem so straightforward.

07:11.082 –> 07:28.167
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyone listening, who’s thinking every platform who isn’t feeling the pain of cost, pours, please pours, but you mentioned Shopify there and we’ve definitely moved rightly or wrongly into a world where

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[SPEAKER_02]: Shopify first, like the first name put on the tender for a re-platform, and I’m sure there’s plenty of people who’s boards are turning around again.

07:35.173 –> 07:38.696
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to go to Shopify for whatever reason.

07:39.077 –> 07:43.100
[SPEAKER_02]: It almost feels like Shopify is the IBM, you know, aging ourselves here.

07:43.160 –> 07:50.027
[SPEAKER_02]: I suspect half listeners won’t know what this phrase comes from, but the whole nobody ever got fired for buying IBM, even if it didn’t work.

07:50.747 –> 07:52.148
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of feels like we’re in that space.

07:52.168 –> 07:56.112
[SPEAKER_02]: What’s your take on the

07:56.092 –> 08:03.906
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what you have is there’s an underlying reason why Shopify is becoming a market leader, but it’s a market leader for a particular type of project right now.

08:04.407 –> 08:15.568
[SPEAKER_01]: DTC, commerce 100%, SME, E, commerce 100%, non-complex, custom business process flows, E, commerce 100%, that is basically 80% of the market.

08:15.548 –> 08:31.713
[SPEAKER_01]: B2B, it’s increasingly becoming good because they’ve rolled out greater functionalities into their B2B, sweet, better customization of front ends, better capabilities around a count management price in discounts, but it’s still not in their in complex B2B complex manufacturing, etc.

08:31.753 –> 08:37.101
[SPEAKER_01]: So you’ve got pockets where it isn’t naturally geared towards it and therefore you could use it but you’d have to a lot of

08:37.081 –> 08:40.027
[SPEAKER_01]: custom-development or third parties are more middleware.

08:40.047 –> 08:50.729
[SPEAKER_01]: The reality is that because of that and because of how good they are marked and shop-fight are really smart at their marketing, additions as a work of art, they’ve invested massively in their business development, they speak to all retailers.

08:51.170 –> 08:58.465
[SPEAKER_01]: So you’ve got not only the reality of the product but you’ve got the distortion of actually how aggressive and how successful they are and they go to market strategy.

08:58.445 –> 09:05.019
[SPEAKER_01]: that changes narratives because they are in talking to more details and I was chatting to a few consultants over the last few months.

09:05.119 –> 09:15.441
[SPEAKER_01]: I see less projects for James, can you help me pick technology and more projects where we’ve chosen X, which is often Shopify, we need to help to know what to do and how to manage this project.

09:15.421 –> 09:21.229
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that there’s the market, but the important thing is that it’s not suitable to every business.

09:21.910 –> 09:24.794
[SPEAKER_01]: But also it could be really the right platform for you.

09:24.894 –> 09:29.060
[SPEAKER_01]: However, it can have a cost implication to your current customer, or that you haven’t thought through.

09:29.460 –> 09:41.597
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don’t think that through properly for making that selection decision, you could end up coming unstuck by having a cost line in the project that you’ve not budgeted for, that you’ll see if I might

09:41.577 –> 09:51.688
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it’s never right to say yes, but to have a hypothesis as we think Shopify is the right one and this is why let’s try and prove this now that is a totally acceptable approach.

09:51.905 –> 09:56.691
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you have someone who comes to you and goes, we’ve decided to go to Shopify, can you help us?

09:56.891 –> 10:01.136
[SPEAKER_02]: Is your first thing to challenge that decision or to double check that decision?

10:01.276 –> 10:04.641
[SPEAKER_01]: Double check, as a consultant, I can’t do draw if I don’t know why you’re making a decision.

10:05.021 –> 10:06.383
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m not a good consultant.

10:06.403 –> 10:10.087
[SPEAKER_01]: If I come in and just blindly accept what you’ve done without understanding the context.

10:10.107 –> 10:12.951
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to know where stage you’re at, are you contract side?

10:13.191 –> 10:17.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it, it’s past the gatekeeper for approval, but it hasn’t gone to the board yet.

10:18.397 –> 10:21.321
[SPEAKER_01]: Has it been fully costed?

10:21.301 –> 10:26.669
[SPEAKER_01]: I often come in with people, we’re going to get shopfike in here and help us and I come in and there isn’t a proper TCO done.

10:26.749 –> 10:35.903
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody’s looked at a licensed fee and a ballpark development cost of an agency, but they haven’t validated that cost model and actually they’ve got cost missing or they’ve understated or they’ve overstated them.

10:36.344 –> 10:42.834
[SPEAKER_01]: See, I want to understand the context, not disruptively, but if I can understand that, I can help them avoid bad decisions or I can help them negotiate better.

10:42.874 –> 10:48.743
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if they say, well, we thought, but we’re not really sure,

10:48.723 –> 11:01.872
[SPEAKER_01]: Let’s put a proper decision process behind this and you don’t have to spend months agonising, you could do it quite quickly, but if you put that structure in up front then you would hope that people buy into a decision better and therefore people then know why they’re moving in a direction.

11:02.054 –> 11:10.804
[SPEAKER_02]: So, for anyone who’s wondering, TCO is total cost of ownership, so that’s a spreadsheet of the full forensic level costing, which you should be doing for any of these projects.

11:11.565 –> 11:18.793
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything else you are checking in with people before you commit an agreed to the project and so on and so forth, anything else?

11:19.154 –> 11:29.125
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess what I’m actually trying to ask James is if someone’s thinking of doing a replatform this year, what else do they need to make sure they’ve got in place before they sign any contracts or sign off any budgets?

11:29.257 –> 11:46.274
[SPEAKER_01]: So I always start with internal alignment, we know it’s basically these projects are not simple, they do involve stress, they involve disruptions to the business because they take a lot of resource, there are complexities there are known unknowns unknown unknowns and so you do get stress throughout these projects.

11:46.775 –> 11:54.943
[SPEAKER_01]: Therefore if you don’t have complete alignment where you have proper C-suite or single-ish team buying and everyone’s bought into it, they’re all working together.

11:54.923 –> 12:04.870
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don’t and you create infriction where it’s not expected, you end up potentially losing support or you end up really annoying people and that is disruptive to the project.

12:04.910 –> 12:08.620
[SPEAKER_01]: So the number one thing is, it has a proper business case being created.

12:08.640 –> 12:10.806
[SPEAKER_01]: If so, is it robust?

12:10.786 –> 12:14.872
[SPEAKER_01]: if that is great but has it got signed off and do we have everyone at the same leadership on board?

12:14.932 –> 12:22.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Not just the e-commerce lead, the finance person, the ops person, all those critical decision makers whose teams you are going to rely on in the project.

12:22.603 –> 12:32.457
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s my absolute non-negotiable because if the answer is no then that’s got to be done before you start even contemplating delivering a project and going to the next stage.

12:32.690 –> 12:35.474
[SPEAKER_02]: You need their agreement at every single stage.

12:35.634 –> 12:35.934
[SPEAKER_02]: Not.

12:36.435 –> 12:38.638
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, by the way, we’re going live in two weeks time.

12:38.698 –> 12:40.861
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you set up our payment integrations?

12:40.881 –> 12:49.872
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s like that’s a class, and also the, oh, yes, so CFO, I know you weren’t consulted on that, and somebody just said, above me, and they’re, you know, we’re going to look at a platform.

12:50.153 –> 12:57.482
[SPEAKER_01]: We’ve now decided on Shopify, but let me just give you a last surprise that your payments rates going up by one decimal point.

12:57.462 –> 12:58.003
[SPEAKER_01]: like what?

12:58.263 –> 13:14.914
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, wherever you take me on the journey and how if we reach the consensus about what the business case of this is, because sometimes there’s a misnomer that repack for me is a cost reduction exercise and this is not the right way to think about it is what you’re trying to achieve, what your goals, what your success criteria and what your outcomes.

13:14.894 –> 13:17.318
[SPEAKER_01]: And does that require investment to achieve that?

13:17.338 –> 13:19.942
[SPEAKER_01]: And is that investment justified because of an ROI?

13:20.002 –> 13:30.600
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever that might be could be you don’t need three head counts that you thought you can have to have because you’ve got a better platform and tooling, but it actually you’ve had to spend an extra 200k capex in order to get there.

13:31.120 –> 13:38.252
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s all these discussions that have to be had first because if you don’t frame it right, you do not bring people into a consensus of opinion.

13:38.232 –> 13:40.415
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve got the goals aligned.

13:40.475 –> 13:42.658
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve got the internal team aligned.

13:42.758 –> 13:45.261
[SPEAKER_02]: We haven’t yet talked about the tech stack.

13:46.303 –> 13:50.608
[SPEAKER_02]: So is there anything we need to look at from a tech stack front?

13:50.628 –> 13:51.970
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously, there is.

13:52.871 –> 13:54.513
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, roll with my question here.

13:54.533 –> 14:01.843
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything from a tech stack piece that it’s essential to check before you even go out trying to work out what platform you’re moving to?

14:01.823 –> 14:02.925
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that’s a good question.

14:02.985 –> 14:11.417
[SPEAKER_01]: So 100% my finalist strategic business case and the consensus and governance bit first, then it is operationally where does Econ sit?

14:11.437 –> 14:19.749
[SPEAKER_01]: And the question I suggest people answer is, not what does an Econ platform have to do functiony, but what is the role of an Econ must platforming in our systems architecture?

14:20.350 –> 14:23.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it just basically a payment gateway and a product catalog?

14:23.795 –> 14:31.068
[SPEAKER_01]: or is it everything and it’s got to have capability for like custom order management flows and actually we need it to have some to enable personalization.

14:31.409 –> 14:34.735
[SPEAKER_01]: You suddenly start to change the picture of what an e-complat form it is.

14:35.176 –> 14:38.421
[SPEAKER_01]: What it needs to deliver and then it’s about how it’s got to fit in.

14:38.461 –> 14:41.567
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are the other systems that it needs to play with?

14:41.547 –> 14:43.769
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there existing middlewares in place?

14:44.089 –> 15:05.469
[SPEAKER_01]: All of these questions have an impact, because some platforms have really good integrations with certain middlewares, or they’ve got proven data flow connectors with A-B and C-E-R-P, enterprise resource planning tool for those who have not heard of it before, versus another platform, which doesn’t have those connectors, and therefore you’re going to add costs and complexity and time into your project.

15:05.489 –> 15:11.554
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, fundamentally you’ve got to understand where

15:11.534 –> 15:17.282
[SPEAKER_02]: And presumably that’s the point as well where you start to understand if you’re going to have to change other things as well.

15:17.302 –> 15:20.827
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you know, because we often see businesses here, right, we’re going to upgrade to another platform.

15:20.847 –> 15:30.200
[SPEAKER_02]: Then we start growing and then we realize we need an ERP or we can’t use X as of copy and paste held together with sticky back plastic op system.

15:30.981 –> 15:35.247
[SPEAKER_02]: Like suddenly there’s a almost a domino effect of other upgrades that happen.

15:35.227 –> 15:37.710
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this the point in which you’d start outlining those as well?

15:37.890 –> 15:52.329
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is why it’s hard because no repart forms over the same and you sometimes have a project where there is another part of the business and it’s typically like an internal IT function where they are either upgraded or changing part of the ER piece.

15:52.349 –> 16:00.500
[SPEAKER_01]: So either the core ERP, whether it’s a net suite, a dynamic, so they built an inhale, I’ve got a climate in-house and they’re going to a third party specialist in business central.

16:01.141 –> 16:02.803
[SPEAKER_01]: But they’re using a specific

16:02.783 –> 16:17.679
[SPEAKER_01]: retail vertical version of that, which has its own set of dependencies, and or somebody’s changing the warehouse management systems, and they have a requirement with the warehouse management system pushes directly into e-commerce, a simple film and statuses rather than through the ERP.

16:17.699 –> 16:20.142
[SPEAKER_01]: And you’ve got, you have to tease out the data flows.

16:20.442 –> 16:26.128
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for those who think crisis sounds way complicated is think about data flows and not tech.

16:26.148 –> 16:32.335
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when you think about tech, it becomes, I don’t understand the ERP, what’s dynamics, what’s business centre, as I forget that,

16:32.315 –> 16:37.726
[SPEAKER_01]: How does data need to flow between systems to execute on your trading plans and your order management.

16:37.746 –> 16:42.996
[SPEAKER_01]: So how does an order need to get into a warehouse and how does e-commerce need data back from it?

16:43.337 –> 16:45.281
[SPEAKER_01]: How does a product get into your e-commerce?

16:45.301 –> 16:46.764
[SPEAKER_01]: How does a stock update get in?

16:46.824 –> 16:53.918
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s understand those data flows and understand the systems that are now in control and where they might be gaps or issues and how they’re changing.

16:53.898 –> 16:58.183
[SPEAKER_01]: or where there might be a new system being introduced, because then you can start say, okay, right.

16:58.243 –> 17:00.586
[SPEAKER_01]: So I’m looking at platform A for e-commerce.

17:01.167 –> 17:03.791
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that I’m using platform B for my EAP.

17:04.451 –> 17:07.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a proven case study to show that these are integrated?

17:07.195 –> 17:08.997
[SPEAKER_01]: What level of complex is this going to cause me?

17:09.498 –> 17:11.821
[SPEAKER_01]: And if the answer is, do you know what they don’t play well together?

17:12.542 –> 17:17.368
[SPEAKER_01]: That then makes you have to question internally, okay, so does this project need to be wider than it currently is?

17:17.628 –> 17:19.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we need to involve more people in the decision?

17:19.530 –> 17:21.593
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it’s got greater dependencies.

17:21.944 –> 17:24.449
[SPEAKER_02]: Presumably, I mean, I’m going to mention it AI.

17:24.490 –> 17:28.538
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m guessing that’s getting pulled in more and more and to replat forming projects.

17:28.578 –> 17:29.981
[SPEAKER_02]: How can we take advantage of AI?

17:30.001 –> 17:36.736
[SPEAKER_02]: How can we build an AI ready system as we know many AI projects are falling over due to data issues?

17:37.037 –> 17:39.803
[SPEAKER_02]: So is that something you’re building in at this stage as well?

17:39.883 –> 17:42.248
[SPEAKER_02]: What the AI potential an opportunity is?

17:42.228 –> 17:51.041
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a bit of a blurry line at the moment because it presumes that a business has an AI strategy and I think it’s fair to say that many don’t.

17:51.061 –> 18:01.317
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of businesses are using AI tool in but they’re using it tactically so someone in the content team might be using AI to generate alt tags for images or some of the SEO side is doing it for SEO optimised content.

18:01.297 –> 18:04.000
[SPEAKER_01]: But is there an overall strategy about what the role of AI is?

18:04.260 –> 18:05.241
[SPEAKER_01]: How does it fit operation?

18:05.301 –> 18:10.747
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it meant to do from an automation and a process efficiency point of view from a data, managing point of view?

18:10.767 –> 18:13.290
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that’s what’s lacking that AI governance.

18:13.590 –> 18:29.667
[SPEAKER_01]: If I think if I then strip that back to what’s practical in replet form it, the number one thing is, what are the core processes that take up your team’s time where they’re having to do repetitive tasks, which are tedious, and you’d much rather those e-com execs, CRM execs have more time to do value-a-ed,

18:29.647 –> 18:34.874
[SPEAKER_01]: focus on revenue driving growth activities and also give them a more enjoyable job.

18:34.894 –> 18:42.663
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s where the focus should be is then you’ve got use cases to explore with tech companies say, we’ve got six scenarios.

18:43.084 –> 18:46.208
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to know how your AI tool will help us to do this better.

18:46.768 –> 18:53.697
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s a far better way I think of approaching it rather than just trying to think about it in a more

18:53.677 –> 18:56.649
[SPEAKER_02]: and changing tack completely from AI to human beings.

18:57.191 –> 19:01.830
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s fair to say once then you get up and running and the project is happening.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s as much about people as it is about tech in a larger business as well isn’t it bringing them along on the journey with you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.

19:09.026 –> 19:30.045
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is an area that’s often overlooked and it’s overlooked not because of bad intentions but because when you get into a project and the project is frenetic and you’ve got tasks coming out of your ears and you’ve got fires to put out is you forget some of the core principles you build a project on and that’s why it’s critical to have a strong project lead and a project manager to keep the team focused on those and not lose track.

19:30.025 –> 19:47.443
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think building consensus for changes massive and it’s about communicating with people how they need to be because you’ve got all different levels Only you’ve got C-suite who don’t want to be bombarded with the mind you shared detail and be involved every call They want to know are we on track are we on budget is the product being delivered effectively are we here in our outcomes?

19:47.423 –> 19:50.566
[SPEAKER_01]: and we need to keep them engaged and updated on that basis.

19:51.307 –> 19:57.574
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you’ve got, see the mentioned, we’ll know what the impact of their team is, it is their particular teams needs being catered for and not forgotten.

19:58.314 –> 20:13.110
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you’ve got the, I guess what I’ll call the do is the subject matter experts who are involved, either consistently, so content people, generally, and product people for our or periodically, so maybe the buyers are inputting

20:13.090 –> 20:23.465
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s about making sure that you keep communicating and sharing back to their many things that’s relevant to them and you give them an opportunity to feedback ask questions.

20:23.485 –> 20:25.648
[SPEAKER_01]: So town halls are good ways of doing it.

20:25.868 –> 20:32.357
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone can join in if they want to run them every x weeks months and people can just join in ask questions.

20:32.898 –> 20:35.942
[SPEAKER_01]: Don’t as you get further into project more regular stand-ups.

20:35.922 –> 20:40.648
[SPEAKER_01]: where you get people on the core and you just get them to raise any questions in advance, so you can tackle them.

20:41.209 –> 20:46.035
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think communication is critical, it’s just not losing sight that people need to be told what’s happening.

20:46.255 –> 20:51.983
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve covered an awful lot there, James, on the what would you do if you were embarking on a re-platform in 2026?

20:52.183 –> 20:55.687
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything we’ve missed that the audience really need to know about?

20:55.727 –> 20:59.432
[SPEAKER_02]: Or any final thought you’ve got for those who are embarking on this this year?

20:59.412 –> 21:03.998
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a couple of things are being, is you’ve got to have contingency in a project.

21:04.279 –> 21:06.882
[SPEAKER_01]: Projects can run over budget and products can run over time.

21:07.403 –> 21:18.798
[SPEAKER_01]: If you’ve got such a tight timeframe that there’s no slippage at all and you’ve got no contingency in a budget, what happens if something comes up that’s pretty cliche, you can’t frame all money, it’s it to add more development resource to fix it.

21:19.139 –> 21:22.483
[SPEAKER_01]: So that either means you compromise your skateboard or you compromise your timeframe.

21:22.463 –> 21:25.890
[SPEAKER_01]: so build contingency time and money so that you have a buffer.

21:26.010 –> 21:40.076
[SPEAKER_01]: So I always say 15 to 20 percent on your capex for a contingency to cover unknown unknowns and always planning wants to sprint a buffer to pad out time when you get into like user acceptance tests and launch planning and sprints normally over two weeks.

21:40.397 –> 21:41.940
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s really important.

21:41.920 –> 21:45.847
[SPEAKER_01]: The next thing is to understand that friction is inevitable in a project.

21:46.168 –> 21:50.195
[SPEAKER_01]: And friction could be somebody being ill and not being able to complete a task.

21:50.476 –> 21:53.542
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be disagreement and that can be healthy or it can be unhealthy.

21:54.043 –> 21:57.830
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be people but in the head or it can be people thinking, we haven’t got this right.

21:57.850 –> 22:02.899
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to debate this until we actually certain this is the right outcome for this particular task.

22:02.879 –> 22:13.336
[SPEAKER_01]: but you’ve got to educate people on what project friction is and not to fear it and not to think it’s bad in it and to say that if somebody challenges what you’re requesting, don’t take it personally, it’s because we want to get the right outcomes.

22:13.837 –> 22:21.390
[SPEAKER_01]: But the people running the project team have got to make sure it’s done in a productive and a constructive way and ensure that people feel supported.

22:21.430 –> 22:23.373
[SPEAKER_01]: If they get something wrong, they’re not punished.

22:23.894 –> 22:24.415
[SPEAKER_01]: That

22:24.395 –> 22:28.981
[SPEAKER_01]: they get explained what the issue is, help them to get it right and help them to feel valuable part of the team.

22:29.601 –> 22:51.128
[SPEAKER_01]: And that all leads into my final point, which is another exciting acronym, Chloe, if you’re wonderful listeners, Ray C, which is a basically a mapping of the project role you need to deliver a project like a project manager, project lead, subject matter experts, sponsors, and it’s listed in all the core tasks and mapping whose response will

22:51.108 –> 22:54.934
[SPEAKER_01]: and making sure that people know what their role is and they know what they’re responsible for.

22:55.675 –> 23:19.309
[SPEAKER_00]: Those bits they sound dull but they’re fundamental because they then give you a reference point to come back to the project and go, always keeping our governance on track.

23:21.112 –> 23:26.521
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

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[SPEAKER_02]: James, are you ready for the top tips?

23:28.504 –> 23:28.785
[SPEAKER_01]: Always.

23:29.286 –> 23:36.538
[SPEAKER_02]: The booktop tip then, if everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

23:36.518 –> 23:42.168
[SPEAKER_01]: So I’m nearly misread this and thought this is which book am I enjoying reading at the moment then I realise you said about business, I changed it.

23:42.588 –> 23:50.462
[SPEAKER_01]: So webs of influence by Natalie Nehai I’ve been a long time fan of hers for many, many years when I came across as part of the consulting network.

23:50.843 –> 23:56.873
[SPEAKER_01]: So she’s a specialist in the convergence of psychology, of consumer behavior and online, shopping, marketing, etc.

23:56.853 –> 24:02.741
[SPEAKER_01]: so the book is an amazing perspective into psychological principles and how you can use them to improve your site.

24:02.761 –> 24:08.147
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s not about manipulation, but improving your site to better target and deliver good user experience with customers.

24:09.089 –> 24:10.430
[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, excellent recommendation.

24:10.991 –> 24:15.156
[SPEAKER_02]: And we’re always happy to have a fiction book, you know, for future reference, that’s fine too.

24:15.537 –> 24:21.204
[SPEAKER_02]: Traffic, top tip, which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

24:21.464 –> 24:25.830
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I have two or do I have to be completely?

24:26.013 –> 24:27.616
[SPEAKER_02]: you can have to.

24:27.676 –> 24:35.127
[SPEAKER_01]: So first one direct mail and I know that you’ve covered a lot of conversation and direct mail on your pod, but I’m going to put out a very specific thing, direct mail is how long’s piece of string.

24:35.548 –> 24:43.941
[SPEAKER_01]: So direct mail follow-ups to first online orders, sending somebody something nice and this works a bit better of more up market like premium brands.

24:43.961 –> 24:50.772
[SPEAKER_01]: I’ve worked really nice and we can do a really targeted insert, just something a bit more personal, a bit more tangible, something you can hold onto.

24:51.273 –> 24:53.877
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that’s a really nice touch,

24:53.857 –> 24:54.860
[SPEAKER_02]: And you said you wanted to?

24:55.221 –> 24:55.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Reddit.

24:55.923 –> 25:03.484
[SPEAKER_01]: Not enough people use reddit as a source for getting, like, brand authority and expertise and and also really give them a C.O.

25:03.504 –> 25:03.985
[SPEAKER_01]: point of view.

25:04.167 –> 25:08.552
[SPEAKER_02]: or some of you are hearing more and more about Reddit when I need to look more deeply into, I think.

25:08.572 –> 25:18.483
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, the tool-tock tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone-up or just a way of working, is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team a more efficient day to day?

25:18.663 –> 25:23.188
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the hardest one because as you do with the R&E context, definitely there’s just so many.

25:23.228 –> 25:28.774
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m just pulling out one that I’ve used recently that has really helped me, so Google Sheets and Gemini.

25:28.754 –> 25:36.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So I’ve had to do a lot of data important and data cleanse in reform, as I was migrating blood data out of WordPress into Shopify.

25:36.744 –> 25:42.952
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s just, you can’t get from one system to another, clean, it’s just full of old crap HTML, ASCII characters.

25:43.513 –> 25:51.783
[SPEAKER_01]: So I basically use Google Sheets and Gemini to clean up and set rules and basically, because it can run Python commands and you can get it pretty clean.

25:52.123 –> 25:57.310
[SPEAKER_01]: I have used Chatchee BT in the past, but with Gemini, you can direct and Google Sheets, it’s quite nice.

25:57.509 –> 25:59.673
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, nice geeky recommendation there.

25:59.693 –> 26:00.354
[SPEAKER_02]: We like that.

26:00.855 –> 26:02.719
[SPEAKER_02]: And then finally the carbon top tip.

26:02.779 –> 26:06.485
[SPEAKER_02]: What’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

26:06.906 –> 26:10.272
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to be flipping and say stop trying to sell as much as possible.

26:10.513 –> 26:13.358
[SPEAKER_01]: So less practicality, but that’s a bit too flipping.

26:13.338 –> 26:16.583
[SPEAKER_02]: but maybe flippant, but also 100% spot on.

26:16.884 –> 26:18.005
[SPEAKER_01]: And that’s the problem, isn’t it?

26:18.025 –> 26:18.306
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.

26:18.546 –> 26:31.106
[SPEAKER_01]: The one I’m going to pull out is, because I saw a really good, it’s about packaging, and about the fact that you do not need really expensive, embossed packaging that’s not made from sustainable materials, and they can’t be recycled or fully recycled.

26:31.126 –> 26:40.982
[SPEAKER_01]: You don’t need it, and I’ve had this conversation for you, Premier Brands, and I saw a couple of bold ones of good few years back who decided that they went early, and it wasn’t just because of the environment, it was also to cut costs.

26:40.962 –> 26:58.667
[SPEAKER_01]: But they went and they tested just plain recyclable packaging and found that actually it had no negative impact at all on conversion rate and it therefore increased their margin because the cost for much lower and it was also enabled them to have a more sustainable angle.

26:58.765 –> 27:13.821
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think that packaging is the most popular answer to this question and I think it is probably the best answer to this question for three reasons one it saves you cost two it’s good for the planet and three it’s the most noticeable thing to consumers.

27:13.801 –> 27:33.343
[SPEAKER_02]: And it’s the thing they rant about the most about brands is you stupidly size boxes or overly large amounts of packaging or packaging you can’t recycle so it kind of wins on so many levels and of course, one of the worst things you can do is pay to transport lots of air around the world so small packaging is also good.

27:33.743 –> 27:39.690
[SPEAKER_01]: And that’s a spot on point actually because I had one the other day or something for my daughter is massive box came and I thought.

27:39.670 –> 27:49.132
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if we ordered that, it was about 60% air with those inflated plastic sacks inside, which I know they are from recycled materials, but it’s technically unnecessary.

27:49.833 –> 27:52.379
[SPEAKER_01]: So they then have to get parts, which were dog hates.

27:52.800 –> 27:57.190
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they have to get in put in the recycling bin to be recycled for no reason.

27:57.406 –> 28:05.273
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do quite like the way that Amazon in particular now is frequently sending out boxes without any packaging at all.

28:05.934 –> 28:17.604
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so you order an electronic site and it just arrives with a sticker on it, which I know doesn’t work everywhere in the world, but in my very rural part of the UK, where trust me, nobody is gonna be stealing parcels off my doorstep.

28:17.664 –> 28:24.531
[SPEAKER_02]: She says, famous last words, but it’s like, why would you put that vacuum in another box when it’s in a perfectly good box already?

28:24.731 –> 28:26.012
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

28:25.992 –> 28:41.554
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we go even deeper into our own rants about packaging james, would you please let the listeners know where they can get in contact with you if they have questions or want your help in their re-platforms or other tech stack challenges this year?

28:41.534 –> 28:54.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I prefer carrier pigeon because that’s my era of E-pop from my IBM days as well, so LinkedIn, you can find me James Good on LinkedIn and also check out the inside commerce podcast.

28:54.710 –> 28:59.376
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s always a good way to find out about us, contact me and your well-consider up.

28:59.656 –> 29:04.322
[SPEAKER_01]: We run a bi-weekly newsletter for inside-com, which shares our views on the E-com world.

29:04.803 –> 29:08.487
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it is specific conversation, connect with me in LinkedIn and drop me a DM.

29:08.467 –> 29:16.500
[SPEAKER_02]: and definitely listen to James’ podcast and newsletter because it is must read and must consume to keep on top of what’s going on in tech, especially here at the UK.

29:16.920 –> 29:18.943
[SPEAKER_02]: James, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

29:19.584 –> 29:27.396
[SPEAKER_02]: I suspect you have saved many people days and weeks of agony with your advice in this one, so huge thanks for sharing it with us.

29:27.697 –> 29:32.905
[SPEAKER_01]: Most welcome, thank you for inviting me on always enjoy chatting to you, Chloe, and I hope everyone has enjoyed the episode.

29:38.150 –> 29:50.627
[SPEAKER_02]: always a treat to catch up with James and I really do believe if you pay attention to what he’s just taking you through you will have much, much more successful and less painful as well, re-platforming activity this year.

29:51.007 –> 30:00.580
[SPEAKER_02]: He took us through the people side of it, both above you and below you, the tech side and the whole change management thing, which I think these days is almost as big as the tech side of it all.

30:00.560 –> 30:09.036
[SPEAKER_02]: You can get your hands on our notes from the episode, including those top tips and links to what we mentioned, by heading over to ecommercemasterplan.com.

30:09.557 –> 30:16.130
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also use our direct episode short links to get there, that’s ECMP.info forward slash the number of this episode.

30:16.811 –> 30:20.458
[SPEAKER_02]: And don’t forget to get yourself on our email list when you reach the site.

30:20.438 –> 30:31.131
[SPEAKER_02]: If you liked this episode, then make sure you check out Episode 367, where I’m chatting with Ashley Hubbard from Grants and Shoes about their replad-forming journey.

30:31.472 –> 30:43.527
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you want more of our WWE IDs, or what would you do episodes, then head to ECMP.info-w-w-y-d and you’ll find a page with all of them listed for you.

30:43.507 –> 30:47.775
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

30:47.795 –> 30:56.591
[SPEAKER_02]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including progressing along the path to net zero.

30:57.011 –> 31:02.321
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.