00:00.520 –> 00:14.065
[SPEAKER_02]: having someone else who’s as invested in it as you are, that’s I think the key to success of any business, whoever you’re working with, whether that’s your wife, your friend, three big things in the business, and in any relationship is honesty, trust, and communication.

00:14.726 –> 00:17.331
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don’t have one of those, do the two are going to fall down.

00:19.538 –> 00:22.065
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

00:22.606 –> 00:26.677
[SPEAKER_00]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

00:27.218 –> 00:35.320
[SPEAKER_00]: Cutting through the highly to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

00:38.287 –> 00:39.569
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, and welcome.

00:39.589 –> 00:40.770
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.

00:40.810 –> 00:44.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

00:44.775 –> 00:51.803
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, I get to catch up with the op-stirector of a brilliant e-commerce brand.

00:51.823 –> 00:59.232
[SPEAKER_01]: They’ve got really big in a specific niche and they’ve been doing some really, really clever stuff behind the scenes that he’s going to be taking us through.

00:59.272 –> 01:07.922
[SPEAKER_01]: We’ll be talking about making the most of migration to Shopify and what comes after the migration to Shopify.

01:07.902 –> 01:17.602
[SPEAKER_01]: process optimization, why you may want to keep fulfilment and production in house will be talking about what we’re talking about a little bit of marketing too.

01:18.163 –> 01:20.689
[SPEAKER_01]: And his top tips are absolutely brilliant.

01:20.789 –> 01:24.156
[SPEAKER_01]: So make sure you stick around for those at the end of the episode.

01:29.333 –> 01:31.775
[SPEAKER_01]: And now to introduce our special guest.

01:31.795 –> 01:35.419
[SPEAKER_01]: Ben Boutham White is the Operations Director at Door West.

01:35.819 –> 01:38.301
[SPEAKER_01]: Experts in herbal pet care since 1948.

01:39.543 –> 01:48.291
[SPEAKER_01]: Selling globally via wholesale marketplaces, crafts and their own Shopify store, they now do over 50,000 orders a year.

01:48.411 –> 01:49.052
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Ben.

01:49.652 –> 01:51.454
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Chloe, and thanks for the introduction.

01:51.794 –> 01:57.940
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great to have you on the show, such a fascinating business, but how did you get into the world of e-commerce?

01:58.375 –> 02:00.718
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, my background is IT.

02:01.099 –> 02:04.123
[SPEAKER_02]: Traditionally, that’s my first job at the university.

02:04.143 –> 02:04.985
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn’t my degree.

02:05.686 –> 02:13.537
[SPEAKER_02]: I was completely unrelated about ended up in IT and then kind of family into assistant engineering and then cybersecurity kind of a strange.

02:14.018 –> 02:27.758
[SPEAKER_02]: I was kind of a natural path and then by that point I was married to Joe who is the third generation of the family who started to arrest and use the kind of how the business was going for her and her parents were kind of

02:27.923 –> 02:28.944
[SPEAKER_02]: she needed that support.

02:29.004 –> 02:40.154
[SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of came into the business at that point, felt I had something to offer with my side of my skills really, the kind of technical skills I had, process procedure, that kind of thing from working in much bigger businesses.

02:40.674 –> 02:44.658
[SPEAKER_02]: So kind of made sense for us to give that a go really, and that was 10 years ago.

02:44.778 –> 02:56.108
[SPEAKER_02]: So from there, once I joined door west, I kind of the technical system side of the business in general, and naturally he comes a part of that

02:56.088 –> 02:58.032
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s kind of what I do day to day really.

02:58.052 –> 03:04.043
[SPEAKER_02]: So I look after the systems that we have and kind of as well as the production and dispatch areas of our business as well.

03:04.063 –> 03:09.753
[SPEAKER_02]: So kind of the more technical side of it and woes Joe really looks after the marketing and the customer service aside.

03:09.773 –> 03:14.582
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s where her passion is division for the brand and how we operate as a business.

03:14.642 –> 03:17.527
[SPEAKER_02]: And I make sure that everything runs smoothly.

03:18.148 –> 03:19.851
[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully in the technical aspects.

03:19.871 –> 03:20.172
[SPEAKER_02]: See

03:20.320 –> 03:24.544
[SPEAKER_01]: So, two massive questions I have to ask after you after that intro.

03:24.925 –> 03:26.687
[SPEAKER_01]: Number one, what was the degree?

03:27.908 –> 03:29.269
[SPEAKER_02]: Marine Environmental Science.

03:29.970 –> 03:36.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that is like I did history and ended up in Ecommerce, but Marine Environmental Science into IT.

03:36.978 –> 03:37.738
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s absolutely great.

03:37.758 –> 03:42.203
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well I should work for the UK Hydrographic Office in some a set.

03:42.263 –> 03:45.987
[SPEAKER_02]: So I went there because I thought that’s what my degree was in.

03:46.027 –> 03:48.690
[SPEAKER_02]: So I got a job as a 10 pin IT.

03:48.670 –> 03:54.180
[SPEAKER_02]: for about a year ended up doing something to do with my degree, hated it lasted three days but back to IT.

03:54.200 –> 03:55.362
[SPEAKER_02]: I loved it.

03:55.402 –> 04:00.251
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s just the kind of the hands on nature with a mind-quisition of how things work.

04:00.291 –> 04:01.813
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m quite a mechanically minded as well.

04:01.833 –> 04:09.767
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do love how things work and I remember kind of just being so ingrown to all this technology that was coming into the office and how new systems work.

04:09.808 –> 04:12.332
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s kind of how I am here at Dorwester, really.

04:12.312 –> 04:20.206
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I love making sure that our website works really well, that the ERP behind it works really well, and a really hate inefficiency.

04:20.226 –> 04:28.441
[SPEAKER_02]: So, when I see it in our business, it’s also kind of when I talk to other friends or experience other businesses, I really hate that kind of inefficiency side of things.

04:28.501 –> 04:34.692
[SPEAKER_02]: So, kind of, I think the IT and my kind of systematic brain loves the kind of stimulation that gives me, if you like.

04:34.942 –> 04:59.531
[SPEAKER_01]: that makes so much sense and then the second question I have to ask is, working with your wife and starting working with your wife clearly it’s going well because you’ve stayed there for ten years and any tips for anyone else doing that family business things like I’ve spoken to people who’ve been like yeah we talk about it 24-7 and it’s brilliant and others who go we leave it at the office but what’s your your kind of recipe for success or any tips you can share?

05:00.111 –> 05:01.573
[SPEAKER_02]: We do talk about it

05:02.397 –> 05:10.409
[SPEAKER_02]: in work, hands are outside of work, but also I think having that ability to discuss it out of work means we can leave it alone a lot more easily.

05:10.509 –> 05:12.352
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve got four dogs.

05:12.372 –> 05:14.716
[SPEAKER_02]: So every morning, we’re up at 6 o’clock at with the dogs.

05:14.776 –> 05:19.022
[SPEAKER_02]: We have lots of really great conversations at that point in the morning because we’re very, very

05:19.002 –> 05:31.191
[SPEAKER_02]: Things are on your mind over night, they come to in the morning, so that half an adult walking in the morning, and they would she kind of get them off the chest, set the scene for the day, and also having someone else who’s as invested in it as you are.

05:31.231 –> 05:35.982
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s I think the key to success of any business, whoever you’re working with,

05:35.962 –> 05:39.925
[SPEAKER_02]: whether that’s your wife, your friend, just another associated director.

05:39.945 –> 05:41.667
[SPEAKER_02]: You’ve got to have that common goal in mind.

05:41.787 –> 05:45.190
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and also understanding are different strengths.

05:45.350 –> 05:52.256
[SPEAKER_02]: So, like I said, Joe looks after very much to brand vision and the marketing, and I look after the technical side of it.

05:52.717 –> 05:57.020
[SPEAKER_02]: It means we’re not stepping on each other’s toes, but we both work together really well.

05:57.040 –> 06:04.467
[SPEAKER_02]: In communication, you know, I’ll be three big things in the business and in any relationship is honesty, trust, and communication.

06:04.447 –> 06:19.877
[SPEAKER_02]: if you don’t have one of those other two are going to fall down so we push that quite hard in the business I think it’s something that people say a lot but unless you actually do it you went to the benefit of it and we definitely do and I think we can not talk about it as much as we can talk about it.

06:19.917 –> 06:22.742
[SPEAKER_02]: We just come back off for weeks holiday, we didn’t talk about work.

06:22.722 –> 06:33.138
[SPEAKER_02]: really that much, but maybe a little bit, but only because you can relax into things and then just have that little five-minute conversation rather than sitting there spoiling on it and not talking about it.

06:33.819 –> 06:39.467
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it’s not a nine-to-five job anymore, but then the same token is not a nine-to-five job.

06:39.487 –> 06:39.948
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s great.

06:40.068 –> 06:41.090
[SPEAKER_02]: I really love that aspect.

06:41.170 –> 06:49.422
[SPEAKER_02]: It gives me the flexibility or sustainability to do what we need to do as a family and then individuals, but also at the same time have a really successful business.

06:50.178 –> 06:51.200
[SPEAKER_01]: love those tips.

06:51.240 –> 06:52.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for that one Ben.

06:52.542 –> 06:54.967
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, let’s let’s deviate back to the business proper.

06:54.987 –> 07:02.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I’ve explained the product ludicrously simply as herbal pet care.

07:03.784 –> 07:07.090
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us a bit more about the product that you’re selling, please.

07:07.323 –> 07:20.438
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so, obviously we’re doing with Dol West, we’re from the 1948-based in Poundbury, and Dolchester was actually where it all started in 1948, was a little shed in it, I think, I can’t, one of the roads, not far from where we are now.

07:21.099 –> 07:26.966
[SPEAKER_02]: Our products are natural mainly herbal supplements and plus topical products for dogs.

07:27.546 –> 07:35.035
[SPEAKER_02]: Some cats mainly dogs, they were dog kind of people, so they are tablets, capsules, powders, liquids, oils, bombs,

07:35.015 –> 07:53.648
[SPEAKER_02]: around about 125 skews across 50 product lines, we cover a range of conditions, so kind of joint support, digestive support, calming and behavior, there are biggest, there’s our biggest kind of sector if you like, and then things like shampoo, bombs,

07:53.628 –> 08:14.202
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything I call, along those lines really, so traditionally we’re a very much kind of condition-based, so we’ve previously had revolutionary herbal medicines, we’re now just purely supplements due to the ease of producing supplements, and actually we can make a better call if you product for being a supplement rather than a medicine, which is something that sounds crazy as a whole other discussion.

08:14.300 –> 08:41.117
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it was a small business, I’d say 20 people, and to end we do everything in-house except for manufacturing, so we don’t physically make for the product in-house, but we do all marketing, customer services, technical quality and production and dispatch, so our production unit does assembly from bulk, so we buy our tablets from our manufacturer by the million,

08:41.097 –> 09:06.987
[SPEAKER_02]: and then we assemble those into the sayable unit you’ll find on our website so hundreds, 200, 500 same with powders that comes in in bulk and we package that on site into the sayable unit and by having that hands-on control of all processes from assembly to dispatch we can ensure the quality of that all the way through and I think in any commerce where we’re always approach

09:06.967 –> 09:07.828
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we’ll take that.

09:07.848 –> 09:11.293
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ll put a price on that for you and we’ll do all that aside of it for you in that.

09:12.114 –> 09:13.456
[SPEAKER_02]: That for us is disingenuous.

09:13.496 –> 09:24.250
[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn’t want that because we like having that quality from the first person someone might speak to on the phone because there’s a lot of our customers will phone us up to talk about their dogs and they’re talking about their issues.

09:24.791 –> 09:26.233
[SPEAKER_02]: So our customers service him will talk them.

09:26.253 –> 09:27.215
[SPEAKER_02]: They’ll process the order.

09:27.255 –> 09:28.897
[SPEAKER_02]: They’ll go downstairs while dispatched him.

09:29.337 –> 09:30.879
[SPEAKER_02]: They’ll pick it, pack it.

09:31.540 –> 09:34.965
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, put everything in the envelope, put the

09:34.945 –> 09:36.368
[SPEAKER_02]: on the envelope and then send that out.

09:36.388 –> 09:37.971
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve got to control that from end to end.

09:38.032 –> 09:40.818
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s very much where our technical quality comes in as well.

09:41.760 –> 09:51.300
[SPEAKER_02]: We can ensure that if there’s any kind lost in post or incorrect products, damage products, we know where we particularly busy, who was working on the specs that day.

09:52.242 –> 09:54.486
[SPEAKER_02]: do we have a different batch of packing material?

09:54.566 –> 10:09.489
[SPEAKER_02]: All those kind of things we can see at end to end and everything, it probably makes a sound a little by like control, fruits, but we just care about the quality of the advice that’s given to our customers, the quality of the marketing that we do and also how we dispatch our products out to our customers.

10:10.171 –> 10:14.217
[SPEAKER_02]: So we do, although I said we do everything else, we’re all selected.

10:14.399 –> 10:16.723
[SPEAKER_02]: things that we do with trusted third parties.

10:17.384 –> 10:40.103
[SPEAKER_02]: As well as wanting to do as much as we can ourselves, we recognise the need for trusted experts, if you like, so things that we can’t do to the quality or the standard we’d want, so things like digital and design, design digital marketing, if you like, say SEO, it’s a dark heart to me, and kind of like any kind of the digital

10:40.083 –> 10:47.173
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re very fortunate to work with a really good design agency who’ve been with us since we did our rebrand over 10 years ago.

10:47.288 –> 10:55.721
[SPEAKER_02]: So we went from being like a cartoon little hand-drawn dog to the pestle and water, logo in three to the kind of the arch logo you’ll find on our products now.

10:55.781 –> 11:01.691
[SPEAKER_02]: We work with a relatively local husband and wife design team who are kind of like our brand guardians with us.

11:02.392 –> 11:05.296
[SPEAKER_02]: So they understand everything about how our brand should look and feel.

11:05.336 –> 11:09.122
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we want to do a new product or a new campaign, we can go to them.

11:09.162 –> 11:12.047
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don’t have to explain as much.

11:12.027 –> 11:15.690
[SPEAKER_02]: because they know it, they wrote our brand guidelines with us, they did all of our color palettes.

11:16.071 –> 11:23.477
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’re at a people like that, and then product experts who kind of vets for product development will work with those to make sure we get the best possible advice.

11:23.918 –> 11:30.523
[SPEAKER_02]: So we manufacture, we use contract manufacturing, who just manufacture our products for us, they’re not white labelled, we don’t white labelled anyone else.

11:31.044 –> 11:33.546
[SPEAKER_02]: And technical partners, so that’s really kind of my side of things.

11:33.586 –> 11:41.393
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we did our Shopify migration product project last year, it was really important to find the right companies,

11:41.643 –> 11:42.985
[SPEAKER_02]: to do that job for us.

11:43.086 –> 11:54.506
[SPEAKER_02]: So, as well as it being the product, so Shopify, it was about finding the right agency and we’ve done a podcast together before about this, you know, Cubics of Heath, we worked with then, we’re so good.

11:54.526 –> 11:56.530
[SPEAKER_02]: They were just the people who just,

11:56.746 –> 12:16.712
[SPEAKER_02]: literally spoke the same way that we did and I understood what they were trying to say so we worked with people like that and we also have a cyber security partner who ensures the kind of the safety and security of our systems and digital security who is like that but again they’re people that I have to be able to talk to and understand what they’re asking of us and they have to understand what we’re asking of them.

12:16.692 –> 12:17.554
[SPEAKER_02]: to be can work together.

12:17.855 –> 12:29.200
[SPEAKER_02]: We really try to select people to work with who are like us, so that means what’s often the people we work with are cooperatively small businesses as well, but I think together it gives us that impact.

12:29.602 –> 12:47.779
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that bit about finding people you can talk to is so critical because back in the day I used to do a lot of website tendering projects and the last one I did was an exclusively Shopify tendering project for an e-commerce business and

12:47.759 –> 12:54.829
[SPEAKER_01]: If the massive difference between those two, which, you know, previously, it was all, but can they create the right check out for us?

12:54.889 –> 12:57.253
[SPEAKER_01]: And do they understand our Zoom requirements?

12:57.273 –> 13:00.898
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, all that kind of kind of techy stuff was how we chose between different people.

13:01.339 –> 13:11.674
[SPEAKER_01]: When it came to the Shopify-tendering process, it was who gets us, who gets the values, who do the people sitting to my right, who are the client, who do they like?

13:11.654 –> 13:15.579
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s such a different experience when finding, finding your supplier.

13:15.599 –> 13:18.222
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love the fact you’ve got that up, but question for you.

13:18.262 –> 13:23.308
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned that you’ve recently or 12 months ago, you moved over to Shopify.

13:24.850 –> 13:33.621
[SPEAKER_01]: And before we hit record, do you say do you take, you’re taking, quite, I would take quite an enlightened approach to your migration to Shopify in terms of what happens after it went live.

13:34.001 –> 13:38.607
[SPEAKER_01]: So how have you approached post-live making the most of Shopify?

13:38.924 –> 13:42.271
[SPEAKER_02]: think what we’ve done is we’ve tried to take our time.

13:42.932 –> 13:58.924
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s probably the biggest thing I’ve tried to encourage the teams to do and obviously Shopify is and the app store it’s basically it’s full of lots of wonderful things or change your life and I’m sure they would but I’m always kind of very conscious of kind of a requirements creep.

13:58.904 –> 14:15.090
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of just trying to do too much and not doing anything particularly well so one of our kind of next projects for the Shopify site is our loyalty club but now there are 101 or more loyalty based apps and everyone will do amazing things and

14:15.425 –> 14:34.362
[SPEAKER_02]: Our loyalty club is probably one of the oldest things about our business and you know when we did our rebrand, we went back through the archives, it’s very fortunate in my second generation of the business, I’m the first generation of the business, so Joe’s grandfather and her parents kept everything, all the archive material, and there’s letters written by her grandfather and

14:34.342 –> 14:58.307
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of ideas he’d written down like he wanted to write he’s you know he’s I outlined for a loyalty club of ensuring that you know loyal customers after the second order got a 10% off for life and that’s something that we continue to do to we move to Shopify and those all of our old loyalty club customers still get 10% off but we’re now looking to relaunch that in a modern way but we’ve taken our time it was in the original scope

14:58.287 –> 15:02.311
[SPEAKER_02]: but we didn’t feel we could deliver it at the time, the way we wanted to deliver it.

15:02.731 –> 15:04.072
[SPEAKER_02]: So we waited.

15:04.132 –> 15:05.754
[SPEAKER_02]: And the same, we also looked at subscription.

15:06.574 –> 15:07.996
[SPEAKER_02]: Because subscription is massive.

15:08.496 –> 15:12.300
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s very simple to implement from Shopify.

15:13.180 –> 15:23.650
[SPEAKER_02]: But it didn’t feel right for us on our customers because as customers of other sites that you subscription, it frustrates me so much if I can’t tell the public subscription this week, because a communication is so bad.

15:24.551 –> 15:28.294
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t want that for our customers.

15:28.274 –> 15:36.706
[SPEAKER_02]: we wanted the best possible experience for our customers, we wanted them to be able to order the products they wanted as simply as possible.

15:36.947 –> 15:45.619
[SPEAKER_02]: So whether that’s the website’s performing well, they can pay really easily, they can update their details, the password list, the entry with shop codes.

15:46.140 –> 15:49.425
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s really how our whole Shopify migration started.

15:49.445 –> 15:51.167
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s like, okay, well that’s what we want first.

15:51.187 –> 15:53.691
[SPEAKER_02]: We want the Shopify experience for our customers,

15:53.671 –> 16:00.777
[SPEAKER_02]: what does it mean, what needs to happen behind it that the customers don’t really care about, and I wouldn’t want them to, or I want them just to have that great experience.

16:00.797 –> 16:16.131
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve gone very slowly, we’ve done we’ve added little things along the way that customers probably wouldn’t notice hopefully because we just may dare experience better whether that’s adding the right leaf for it when they buy a new product or it’s given them kind of marketing communications during a promotion period.

16:16.612 –> 16:23.678
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve done con really kind of slowly, we’ve kind of replicated what we did previously

16:23.658 –> 16:24.680
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that’s it really.

16:24.720 –> 16:26.744
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s kind of my role.

16:26.764 –> 16:33.496
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of my role is to kind of geek keep that and stop it running away because I’m sure it would run away.

16:33.916 –> 16:35.179
[SPEAKER_02]: But I shop for my partner.

16:35.780 –> 16:37.062
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m very pragmatic as well.

16:37.082 –> 16:41.430
[SPEAKER_02]: They understand what we’re trying to achieve and what we’re trying to experience is trying to give to our customers.

16:41.883 –> 16:44.627
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it’s such a wise way of approaching it.

16:44.647 –> 16:47.652
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause you mentioned subscription to you mentioned loyalty there.

16:48.253 –> 16:55.565
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s like, it’s so easy for someone like me or a consultant or whatever’s coming along and get, oh my god, door Western have subscription.

16:55.605 –> 16:57.768
[SPEAKER_01]: You should slap that on the site right away.

16:58.409 –> 17:07.463
[SPEAKER_01]: But as with the loyalty piece, it’s the make or break is in the strategy behind it and the way you implement it.

17:08.245 –> 17:10.388
[SPEAKER_01]: And turning an app on today,

17:10.368 –> 17:21.244
[SPEAKER_01]: He’s neither strategic nor well-implemented as it’s a taking the time to work it out and how you could actually work that out when you’ve just changed your entire systems.

17:21.845 –> 17:25.971
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don’t have the knowledge to be able to buy well to add another thing and obviously.

17:26.452 –> 17:32.781
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there’s been a, I think really the kind of the implementation on the switching on

17:32.761 –> 17:41.679
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, less than 10% of the whole project for us is about, you know, respecting the history of our loyal customers, how do we want to reward them moving forward?

17:42.160 –> 17:44.425
[SPEAKER_02]: How do what do we want to do to modernize it?

17:44.465 –> 17:48.333
[SPEAKER_02]: Because just giving 10% of life is fantastic for our loyal customers.

17:48.814 –> 17:54.145
[SPEAKER_02]: But we now have the ability to do more, but what does more look like because of it, you know, whether.

17:54.125 –> 18:01.958
[SPEAKER_02]: You look at every loyalty, but it comes a system out there, because the website is dropping different things.

18:02.058 –> 18:04.402
[SPEAKER_02]: It might be free shipping at a certain level.

18:05.043 –> 18:06.926
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, are we going to introduce like a merch line?

18:06.946 –> 18:11.192
[SPEAKER_02]: Because people go mad for us at crafts when we’re wearing our branded t-shirts and all bubble hats.

18:11.753 –> 18:14.338
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we could probably sell as many of them as we do our most popular products.

18:14.358 –> 18:16.160
[SPEAKER_02]: So do we, is that something we look at?

18:16.361 –> 18:17.523
[SPEAKER_02]: But how do we deliver that?

18:17.843 –> 18:19.626
[SPEAKER_02]: What has to come behind it?

18:19.606 –> 18:25.916
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it’s not just a matter because I just don’t like it when you have to switch things off because they’re not right and they’re ill-thought out.

18:26.236 –> 18:28.399
[SPEAKER_02]: I really, I don’t enjoy that.

18:28.419 –> 18:29.281
[SPEAKER_02]: And it does have a failure.

18:30.002 –> 18:38.174
[SPEAKER_01]: It is about as far from efficiency as you can get, you know, and you’ve mentioned multiple times that you are hugely focused on efficiency.

18:38.234 –> 18:45.225
[SPEAKER_01]: So are there any key ways you’ve gone about, are you’re particularly pleased with how you’ve built efficiency into the business?

18:46.167 –> 18:53.777
[SPEAKER_02]: Being systemed engineering for the kind of sector I worked in, we were all about the documentation and we’ll kind of come on to this later in my top tips.

18:54.438 –> 19:07.795
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s like we document everything, every process, every way of working, maintenance, task, cleaning, task in our production facility, especially our man of assembly and dispatch has all documented.

19:08.356 –> 19:09.137
[SPEAKER_02]: Because

19:09.117 –> 19:14.683
[SPEAKER_02]: The only way we can ensure quality is to do things the same way over and over again.

19:14.723 –> 19:18.507
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we do things the same way over and over again, we should get the quality.

19:18.527 –> 19:21.931
[SPEAKER_02]: If there’s a quality issue, we can then go and look, is the process wrong?

19:21.951 –> 19:23.152
[SPEAKER_02]: Was the process not followed up?

19:23.172 –> 19:24.273
[SPEAKER_02]: People not train correctly?

19:24.914 –> 19:27.277
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the accessibility of documentation not correct?

19:27.937 –> 19:30.720
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s kind of one of the ways we’ve done it.

19:30.740 –> 19:33.083
[SPEAKER_02]: And that has meant, you know,

19:33.215 –> 19:55.898
[SPEAKER_02]: in our production and dispatch team, pretty much everyone who works in those areas can do any job because the documentation is there and you can train people that’s training the matrices, there’s, you know, GNP audits on how they do everything, it’s really nice to be able to see and it makes everyone super proud because they get audited by our technical quality manager on a monthly basis and have a follow procedure.

19:55.878 –> 20:03.868
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and is everything running right, and I think there is a danger when you introduce kind of a program to document everything.

20:03.908 –> 20:04.449
[SPEAKER_02]: People do it.

20:04.789 –> 20:06.952
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you’re doing it because you don’t think they can do the job properly.

20:07.533 –> 20:10.016
[SPEAKER_02]: You’re actually doing it because you want everyone to do it right.

20:10.036 –> 20:15.503
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we don’t use temporary work because you don’t have any kind of, we’ve got very long-term loyal staff.

20:15.543 –> 20:16.604
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s great.

20:16.624 –> 20:18.186
[SPEAKER_02]: And you could just go, well, that’s where we’ve always done it.

20:18.727 –> 20:21.130
[SPEAKER_02]: But actually, by having documented, you can go back and review.

20:21.550 –> 20:22.832
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that the right way to do it still?

20:22.992 –> 20:25.395
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, just because that’s the way you’ve always did it.

20:25.375 –> 20:26.496
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn’t mean it’s the right way now.

20:27.017 –> 20:33.664
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you don’t have things doctor-oriented, you can’t really kind of determine whether there is a problem in the system or a problem in a process.

20:36.127 –> 20:40.892
[SPEAKER_00]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

20:41.072 –> 20:49.041
[SPEAKER_00]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

20:49.061 –> 20:51.484
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s time for the top six round.

20:53.692 –> 20:59.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love this section, because it gives me and our listeners some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

20:59.102 –> 21:00.725
[SPEAKER_01]: Ben, are you ready for the top tips?

21:01.286 –> 21:01.867
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, let’s go.

21:02.167 –> 21:03.530
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the book top tip.

21:03.550 –> 21:10.823
[SPEAKER_01]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

21:11.377 –> 21:13.321
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I do love to read.

21:13.341 –> 21:16.447
[SPEAKER_02]: I can’t sleep at night without reading and I do try and vary what I read.

21:16.467 –> 21:18.210
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t read business books before I go to sleep.

21:18.310 –> 21:18.911
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m not that bad.

21:19.693 –> 21:23.400
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do try and kind of get into my cycle of reading business books.

21:23.420 –> 21:31.495
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of my books that really spoke to me, even the title to spoke to me, which may be on a read it, is the 12 week work year.

21:31.475 –> 21:39.404
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there is a danger when you’re in a position like Joe and I are where the kind of the train set is out is we can do what we want with the business and run it out.

21:39.425 –> 21:41.787
[SPEAKER_02]: We want is to try and do everything.

21:42.468 –> 21:50.157
[SPEAKER_02]: You can’t and when we’ve got a relatively young family so we kind of almost beholden to that five to six weeks cycle of school half-terms.

21:50.898 –> 21:59.068
[SPEAKER_02]: The 12-week work year meant we could bring a bit more focus to what we’re trying to do rather than thinking, oh we’re going to get us done by the end of our financial year.

21:59.048 –> 22:05.077
[SPEAKER_02]: And before you know it, we’ve had our busiest time of year, which is the autumn, which is our the fireworks season for our common product.

22:05.097 –> 22:07.080
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you’ve got black Friday, then you’re going to Christmas.

22:07.881 –> 22:17.435
[SPEAKER_02]: Then we’ve got a crust in the spring, and all of a sudden before you know it, we’ve kind of got the last quarter of our year, and we haven’t achieved what we wanted to do, and it’ll go, we’ll do it next year.

22:17.495 –> 22:19.538
[SPEAKER_02]: But the 12 week work year,

22:19.518 –> 22:25.064
[SPEAKER_02]: The main thing does encourage you to do more simple tasks and project tracking.

22:25.164 –> 22:31.772
[SPEAKER_02]: So, do fewer things in a short run out of time rather than everything over the course of year because you’ll get nothing done or little done.

22:32.853 –> 22:37.899
[SPEAKER_02]: When we did our Shopify migration project, we did that in a relatively short period of time.

22:37.939 –> 22:39.560
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know how other people feel about it.

22:39.580 –> 22:40.902
[SPEAKER_02]: We did it in 1990 days.

22:41.643 –> 22:45.407
[SPEAKER_02]: I think from start to finish, which actually,

22:45.387 –> 22:49.073
[SPEAKER_02]: looking back was quite aggressive, but it worked really well.

22:49.133 –> 22:51.196
[SPEAKER_02]: So I’m a big fan of the 12-week work.

22:51.376 –> 22:58.668
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of helps me keep focus and as you know, running a business with Joe helps us kind of remain at focus between us.

22:59.649 –> 23:05.779
[SPEAKER_02]: And also means that kind of we don’t end up in that position with our staff or we say we’re going to do all these wonderful things and don’t get them done.

23:05.819 –> 23:08.844
[SPEAKER_02]: If we do it on a short time frame, things happen.

23:09.285 –> 23:11.428
[SPEAKER_02]: And you’ve got more

23:11.864 –> 23:16.329
[SPEAKER_01]: It is one of my favorite business books, like top three business books.

23:16.410 –> 23:20.274
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I’ve just had to resist the urge to jump out the way.

23:20.294 –> 23:26.001
[SPEAKER_01]: So because we’ve got video on right now, me and Ben, I’ve had to resist the urge to jump out the way and point out it on the bookshelf behind me.

23:26.462 –> 23:29.686
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m now going to resist the urge to geek out in how you implement it.

23:30.507 –> 23:32.329
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, I’m going to ask you and keep us on track.

23:32.369 –> 23:38.817
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m going to ask you the traffic top tip, which is which marketing method do you the prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

23:39.370 –> 23:45.556
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I wasn’t really sure how to answer this one because I’m not, I’m not a traditionally kind of a market here.

23:45.576 –> 23:51.763
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m not directly involved in marketing, but obviously hopefully from what we’ve already discussed during the standard kind of a very tech-based.

23:51.863 –> 24:07.639
[SPEAKER_02]: So my biggest tip for people is to kind of not be afraid of asking there’s all good questions of your tech providers, because we don’t, you know, hopefully not implementing or designing building, maintaining your own tech stack if you’re buying in products or

24:08.699 –> 24:11.683
[SPEAKER_02]: don’t be afraid to ask those all questions if you don’t understand something.

24:11.723 –> 24:18.473
[SPEAKER_02]: So like when we went to Shopify, that was our single biggest thing that improved our traffic.

24:19.174 –> 24:27.025
[SPEAKER_02]: We were warned by people close to us relatively close to us that we would should expect a 40% drop in traffic first month.

24:27.606 –> 24:31.451
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously we built that into our budgets to try and put more money into the SEO.

24:31.952 –> 24:35.517
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we saw a 25% increase in traffic first month.

24:35.497 –> 24:42.951
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m not saying everyone’s going to get that, but it just goes to show you that don’t be afraid of doing big things the right way to make a big change.

24:42.991 –> 24:45.677
[SPEAKER_02]: You can’t continue to do the same team expected a different outcome.

24:46.318 –> 24:47.520
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m sure there’s a better way of putting that.

24:47.580 –> 24:52.029
[SPEAKER_02]: But for us, you know, that was our big headline for us.

24:52.069 –> 24:57.960
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was really positive because all of a sudden, we know, I don’t think we necessarily spent any more on SEO,

24:57.940 –> 25:00.824
[SPEAKER_02]: on when we were on Shopify then we did previously.

25:00.864 –> 25:01.885
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just more effective.

25:02.145 –> 25:06.911
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously Google loves to read Shopify that it’s everything’s just written better for it to read.

25:07.372 –> 25:17.485
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s kind of my traffic top tip is to find the right platform and system for you, because Shopify’s not for everyone, I’m sure, but for us it was just the best thing we could have done.

25:18.190 –> 25:20.936
[SPEAKER_01]: I will take that as a very good traffic top tip.

25:20.956 –> 25:21.798
[SPEAKER_01]: That is acceptable.

25:22.199 –> 25:23.482
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the tool top tip.

25:23.522 –> 25:27.851
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug in, a phone app, or just a way of working.

25:28.232 –> 25:32.622
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a call little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day?

25:33.175 –> 25:37.300
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I’ve got two here, kind of ones like an efficiency thing.

25:37.320 –> 25:50.117
[SPEAKER_02]: So we use with most companies, I guess we have tried different tools to make us work better as a team, but the more we’ve kind of settled on at the moment, I’m not saying it’s for every Monday.

25:50.177 –> 25:54.402
[SPEAKER_02]: So we use Monday because it’s kind of cross-department.

25:54.563 –> 25:58.828
[SPEAKER_02]: We don’t use it throughout the business because I think the danger of trying to force

25:58.808 –> 26:02.676
[SPEAKER_02]: someone who is in assembly and production to use Monday.

26:02.716 –> 26:03.618
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s not right.

26:03.939 –> 26:08.849
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn’t fit for them, but for marketing and Joe and myself, it’s really good.

26:09.390 –> 26:10.292
[SPEAKER_02]: Really good tool.

26:10.352 –> 26:17.948
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of goes across everything and we’re doing the marketing for kind of planning, marketing campaigns, product launches,

26:17.928 –> 26:26.424
[SPEAKER_02]: Research projects, you know, even Joe and I have private boards for home stuff where the kids are uniform purchases, school trips.

26:26.925 –> 26:27.827
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s just so useful.

26:27.867 –> 26:33.859
[SPEAKER_02]: And this across everything you can use it on any web browser, but use it at applications on our on our laptop, then it’s on my phone.

26:33.979 –> 26:39.109
[SPEAKER_02]: I try not to have notifications which sound of my phone, but it’s always there if I need to take a note, put something on.

26:39.089 –> 26:45.298
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other one, I really love kind of comes back to what we talked about, our document, everything kind of mantra is scribe.

26:46.019 –> 26:55.474
[SPEAKER_02]: With so many digital systems that we are trying to document ways of how to do things, scribe is just brilliant, it’s just so easy to use.

26:56.055 –> 27:06.210
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know what would have previously been like a 35 page, how to document all of certain becomes like a five minute exercise to do your job, it would document it and you go in

27:06.190 –> 27:10.877
[SPEAKER_02]: how it kind of lays it out and then kind of integrate that into our QMS in the business.

27:10.957 –> 27:12.719
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that has been really good for us.

27:13.560 –> 27:15.603
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is QMS quality management system?

27:15.824 –> 27:16.344
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is.

27:16.364 –> 27:17.045
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so, sorry.

27:17.085 –> 27:28.421
[SPEAKER_02]: QMS is where we keep all the SOPs for our standard operating procedures, standard working procedures for our production side, which is now kind of backflowing to the rest of the business.

27:28.702 –> 27:29.142
[SPEAKER_01]: Got you.

27:29.162 –> 27:34.510
[SPEAKER_02]: So, whatever, it would be the fact, for us it’s the fact that a place you go to find out how to do something.

27:34.675 –> 27:38.063
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, and scribe is spelled SCRIBE?

27:38.364 –> 27:39.146
[SPEAKER_02]: That’s it, yeah.

27:39.166 –> 27:39.446
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.

27:39.627 –> 27:39.847
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

27:40.128 –> 27:42.474
[SPEAKER_01]: On usual, an app that’s actually spelled how it sounds.

27:44.338 –> 27:46.243
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay, the carbon top tip.

27:46.283 –> 27:50.473
[SPEAKER_01]: But to your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store.

27:50.572 –> 27:59.912
[SPEAKER_02]: Well for us, obviously all of our products are packed in plastic, which on the face of it doesn’t look great in a world where you’re trying to reduce plastic use.

28:00.674 –> 28:04.562
[SPEAKER_02]: But we are production team and particular production managers very focused on that.

28:04.602 –> 28:11.196
[SPEAKER_02]: So actually we now use plastic, which is partly sugarcane based, so it’s not all version plastic.

28:11.176 –> 28:12.438
[SPEAKER_02]: but that’s not my top tip.

28:12.478 –> 28:20.027
[SPEAKER_02]: My top tip for us of the thing that we’ve done is we reduce the use of plastic and our dispatched apartment by 98%.

28:20.628 –> 28:20.928
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

28:20.948 –> 28:29.419
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there we’ve got to a point, probably about five years ago, where we couldn’t shut the recycling bin on a Tuesday night before it got emptied.

28:29.459 –> 28:30.380
[SPEAKER_02]: And I’m like, well, what’s in here?

28:30.400 –> 28:31.682
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there’s lots of cardboard boxes.

28:32.143 –> 28:35.767
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and so we’re buying in bubble wrap and we’re throwing away cardboard.

28:36.388 –> 28:39.512
[SPEAKER_02]: So we bought a 2,000 pound

28:39.492 –> 28:44.479
[SPEAKER_02]: cardboard shredder that turns old cardboard boxes into packaging material.

28:45.100 –> 28:48.145
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s the one we use that for ones that we can’t reuse.

28:49.086 –> 28:51.089
[SPEAKER_02]: Once we can reuse, we do.

28:51.169 –> 28:53.873
[SPEAKER_02]: So we don’t buy in as many cardboard boxes.

28:53.893 –> 28:59.882
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we still have a line of branded cardboard boxes which go to specific customers because that’s not luxury.

28:59.922 –> 29:07.373
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I spoke with, you know, the volume is bored as we’re sending

29:07.353 –> 29:08.676
[SPEAKER_02]: So we don’t buy in boxes for that.

29:08.696 –> 29:11.943
[SPEAKER_02]: And they’re all filled with shredded cardboard.

29:11.963 –> 29:14.829
[SPEAKER_02]: So that, you know, we don’t use bubble bags anymore.

29:14.909 –> 29:16.914
[SPEAKER_02]: We don’t use bubble wrap.

29:16.954 –> 29:18.417
[SPEAKER_02]: We don’t use any kind of bags like that.

29:18.437 –> 29:24.450
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s all wrapped in either box or it’s just like kind of craft paper style.

29:24.430 –> 29:34.799
[SPEAKER_02]: and also alongside that, one of the biggest things that I didn’t think some people understand is that what stops cardboard often being recycled is to take that you put on it to make it stick.

29:35.140 –> 29:39.452
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have water based adhesive on all of our tape

29:39.432 –> 29:40.593
[SPEAKER_02]: now I’m getting really geeky again.

29:40.633 –> 29:55.629
[SPEAKER_02]: All of our tape is on that we use for packaging comes off like an automated machine where you can set the link to you want, whip to a little water bath and activate the CDs if so then that is just craft tape with perfectly recyclable glue on it.

29:56.430 –> 29:56.911
[SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

29:56.931 –> 30:00.074
[SPEAKER_02]: So we try and send that stuff that is easily recyclable.

30:00.475 –> 30:03.718
[SPEAKER_02]: And all of our product packaging is household recyclable anyway.

30:04.289 –> 30:14.029
[SPEAKER_01]: What I love about your answer there is the focus on what happens to the materials after they leave the fulfillment center.

30:14.670 –> 30:23.007
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s like, yeah, we found this amazing stuff that’s 90% recyclable and we can send it to the customers, but the customers can’t do anything with it.

30:22.987 –> 30:40.219
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they were as, you know, even talking about that tape, it enables more of the cardboard at the consumer end to be recycled and I think cardboard is probably the easiest thing for a consumer to recycle out of all the packaging materials that come through.

30:40.199 –> 30:45.070
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that kind of full life cycle thought you’ve got going on their Ben, right?

30:45.330 –> 30:47.595
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we say goodbyes, we’re very nearly at the end.

30:48.056 –> 30:53.668
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you please let the listeners know whether they can find you and or west on the web and social if they want to get in contact?

30:53.918 –> 30:54.439
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of course.

30:54.799 –> 30:58.523
[SPEAKER_02]: So our website is nice and easy to find, www.dorbest.com.

30:59.244 –> 31:02.007
[SPEAKER_02]: We also have a trade site as well, which is trade.dorbest.com.

31:02.027 –> 31:05.931
[SPEAKER_02]: If anyone out there is interested to be coming, the stock is to learning more about taking our products.

31:06.312 –> 31:11.397
[SPEAKER_02]: I’m also from Network, so we’re on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok, but we are just door west.

31:12.018 –> 31:18.065
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you shop on our website, we’ve got an exclusive code just for the master plan listeners for a 10% off your order.

31:18.425 –> 31:19.306
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is master plan.

31:19.486 –> 31:20.247
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice and easy.

31:20.682 –> 31:22.206
[SPEAKER_01]: Marvers lovely offer.

31:22.267 –> 31:24.754
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much Ben and thanks being such an awesome guest.

31:24.874 –> 31:29.387
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s been a pleasure at geeking out on ops with you So thanks so much for sharing so much.

31:29.868 –> 31:30.229
[SPEAKER_02]: No problem.

31:30.249 –> 31:31.553
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you Chloe’s great speed team

31:37.203 –> 32:07.210
[SPEAKER_01]: fascinating to get to just chat ops there with Ben and I think you can really see in the conversation with him how they are, you know, doing great on the growth front and keeping things super efficient but super effective with the focus on giving the customers a great experience, giving them a great product, really ringing true there, particularly liked, obviously I love

32:07.190 –> 32:16.664
[SPEAKER_01]: Just brings so much clarity to life, it really does, and it’s a fascinating read because it’s all based on what sports teams do and stuff, so I obviously thoroughly recommend that one as well.

32:17.485 –> 32:25.958
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like the cardboard top tip, and I say, just saying to Ben about ops, I almost want to go off and find a new career as an ops director rather than a marketing director.

32:25.938 –> 32:31.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it’s just me, but yeah, ops, ops and efficiency, love a bit of ops and efficiency.

32:31.624 –> 32:42.274
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, before I waffle on about that for even longer, you can get your hands on the notes from this episode, including the top tips and links to what we’ve mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterpland.com.

32:42.714 –> 32:55.827
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also use our direct episode short links, just put ECMP dot info forward slash the number of this episode into the URL bar and you’ll be redirected straight to the right page

32:55.807 –> 32:56.308
[SPEAKER_01]: Why not?

32:56.588 –> 32:57.309
[SPEAKER_01]: To go on, do it.

32:57.349 –> 32:58.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Get the newsletter.

32:58.691 –> 33:13.434
[SPEAKER_01]: If you like this episode then check out episode 280 quite a long way back up the feed with Brian Larson from US Business Restorer Pet, which is another pet supplements brand and he’s talking about how he grew that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that will give you another angle on pet supplements.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you can hear all our episodes with big brands at ECMP.info

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in to this and every episode that you do of the e-commerce mask plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We love it to have you out there listening.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new interview every week so I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including becoming ever closer to carbon neutral.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimising.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.