00:00.537 –> 00:07.989
[SPEAKER_01]: part of the thing of being a startup and, you know, not having a massive budget, everything needs to work a lot harder for us.

00:08.449 –> 00:16.241
[SPEAKER_01]: So the packaging needs to do a job, you know, the product needs to do a job, our experience of unboxing needs to do a job and provide us that UGC.

00:16.302 –> 00:23.693
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess everything is kind of been designed to reduce down the need for that aid acquisition.

00:26.052 –> 00:29.097
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

00:29.117 –> 00:33.183
[SPEAKER_00]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

00:33.704 –> 00:41.817
[SPEAKER_00]: Cutting through the hinder to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

00:44.750 –> 00:45.973
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome.

00:45.993 –> 00:47.235
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s great to have you here.

00:47.335 –> 00:51.083
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

00:51.684 –> 00:53.929
[SPEAKER_02]: We are a show funded by our sponsors.

00:53.989 –> 00:55.873
[SPEAKER_02]: They really do make all this possible.

00:55.913 –> 01:01.324
[SPEAKER_02]: So brands, excuse me for a second or two whilst I speak to our supplier side listeners.

01:01.304 –> 01:12.965
[SPEAKER_02]: Our sponsorship calendar for the second half of 2026 is now open with some cool, whole-back catalog of episodes options that really get your campaign in front of the maximum ears fast.

01:13.486 –> 01:21.000
[SPEAKER_02]: So please do get in touch with me via ECMP.info for such sponsor if you’re interested in finding out more about that.

01:20.980 –> 01:45.975
[SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we’re talking to a smaller business than usual, but one that’s doing some really cool stuff really well that we can all listen, listen from, learn from, they are, have created a product that’s kind of secondary to the mission of the business, but as you’ll get about to hear, they’ve created that product so in harmony with the mission.

01:45.955 –> 01:53.063
[SPEAKER_02]: There’s not another angle I think they could have thought of and then even the packaging goes into that as well and then that impacts on how they do the marketing.

01:53.764 –> 02:01.332
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s both delivering on the mission perfectly whilst also delivering maximum impact for the e-commerce business as well as super fascinating.

02:01.712 –> 02:02.393
[SPEAKER_02]: Great guest.

02:02.493 –> 02:13.245
[SPEAKER_02]: I know you’re going to like it and make sure you listen to the end of the episode because you don’t want to miss out on his top tips together with our discussion about the pros and cons of AI note takers.

02:19.030 –> 02:21.354
[SPEAKER_02]: And now to introduce our special guest.

02:21.374 –> 02:27.403
[SPEAKER_02]: Steve Willacott is the founder at Uncle Matt’s Hats, selling baseball caps and supporting men’s mental health.

02:27.824 –> 02:33.693
[SPEAKER_02]: Founded in 2024, they sell via their Shopify store and are about to launch their second product range.

02:34.114 –> 02:34.815
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Steve.

02:35.356 –> 02:36.137
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you for having me.

02:36.738 –> 02:39.402
[SPEAKER_02]: Very cool to have you on the show.

02:39.562 –> 02:41.325
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love the…

02:41.643 –> 02:43.926
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of the all encompassing thing of your business.

02:43.946 –> 02:50.153
[SPEAKER_02]: So very, very cool to get into that shortly, I’m sure, but first off Steve, how did you end up in the marvelous world of e-commerce?

02:51.074 –> 03:01.306
[SPEAKER_01]: Not without planning actually, but um, so I was eat the CEO of a pure play e-com business for 11 years in online sports business selling rugby and football gear.

03:01.946 –> 03:07.853
[SPEAKER_01]: So joining that more from an operational point of view and then obviously going into more of the digital and

03:07.833 –> 03:15.404
[SPEAKER_01]: e-commerce based functions left that business in 2016, exited and set up a consultancy.

03:16.145 –> 03:24.197
[SPEAKER_01]: So I advise businesses that many brands that have a e-commerce function that also have bricks and mortar or third-party wholesale.

03:24.237 –> 03:27.683
[SPEAKER_01]: That sort of thing helped them with their e-commerce function.

03:28.223 –> 03:33.992
[SPEAKER_01]: And then more recently set up a Puply DTC brand, which is that brand.

03:34.698 –> 03:35.320
[SPEAKER_02]: Very cool.

03:35.440 –> 03:39.794
[SPEAKER_02]: And you said you come in, came in to e-commerce from the ops side of things.

03:39.874 –> 03:42.582
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that was a good way in?

03:42.703 –> 03:48.420
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, is it easier if you know the logistics to learn the marketing or vice versa?

03:48.923 –> 03:49.784
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

03:49.804 –> 04:04.162
[SPEAKER_01]: I think because then you know the limitations, you know, I think there’s sometimes going to be a disconnect between marketing, digital and then the actual very basic function of getting something out of the door and getting to the customer and the service.

04:04.222 –> 04:13.093
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think so I think it does help that because you sort of think and decide what is practicable and what isn’t practicable in terms of what you can actually push through marketing.

04:13.914 –> 04:17.158
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s so easy for

04:18.691 –> 04:23.821
[SPEAKER_02]: sit in our offices and forget, especially if we’re nowhere near our own fulfilment and forget the physical reality.

04:23.841 –> 04:31.675
[SPEAKER_02]: I was, I think if you, yes, if you’ve come in from that angle, it’s so, so much harder to forget actually there’s customers.

04:31.936 –> 04:42.235
[SPEAKER_02]: They’re not numbers on a sheet, actually there’s physical product, there’s boxes, there’s all of this going on which is so important if we’re going to run a business business well to understand all of it.

04:42.670 –> 04:50.799
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, we all sort of say, oh, you know, we put the customer first and we do what the customer wants, but it’s quite easy to be distance from that quite quickly.

04:51.039 –> 04:54.903
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it’s always good to have a check in and sort of go, you know, what can we physically do?

04:54.943 –> 04:56.244
[SPEAKER_01]: What can’t we physically do?

04:56.785 –> 04:59.448
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, and then we will market appropriately.

05:00.509 –> 05:01.110
[SPEAKER_02]: Very true.

05:01.170 –> 05:05.975
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, let’s talk about Uncle Matt’s hats, your hat brand.

05:06.896 –> 05:08.998
[SPEAKER_02]: Where in the world are you and where do you sell to?

05:09.721 –> 05:15.327
[SPEAKER_01]: We are, as I say, we’re pure play D to C so we only sell online.

05:16.008 –> 05:23.696
[SPEAKER_01]: We do run some of our own events where we retail in person, but the majority is E com D to C. So throughout our website.

05:25.358 –> 05:25.558
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

05:26.479 –> 05:28.902
[SPEAKER_02]: And do you sell globally or are you purely UK?

05:29.383 –> 05:38.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Not globally globally, so obviously the predominant sales at the moment is UK, but yes, we do.

05:39.505 –> 05:44.640
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don’t think we can talk about the product without talking about why you started the business.

05:44.680 –> 05:49.313
[SPEAKER_02]: So let’s start with why you started the business then we can get into the product itself.

05:49.850 –> 05:50.531
[SPEAKER_01]: You’re okay.

05:50.551 –> 05:52.473
[SPEAKER_01]: So the business is called Uncle Matt’s hats.

05:53.034 –> 05:57.179
[SPEAKER_01]: Matt was my brother who we sadly lost in 2020 to suicide.

05:57.480 –> 06:07.192
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things he would do was he was who were baseball caps and he would always buy my kids baseball caps and they became known to them as their Uncle Matt’s hats because he was their uncle and he was called Matt.

06:07.693 –> 06:14.642
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I then wanted to set up the business and do some, you know, almost sort of social good at a business for social good.

06:15.027 –> 06:19.393
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we thought about naming it, of course it just made sense to use that same term that Uncle Matt’s hat.

06:19.474 –> 06:22.658
[SPEAKER_01]: So whilst it’s not about him, per se, that’s why his name is on it.

06:23.179 –> 06:31.211
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this quite a nice link of hat and your head and protecting your head, you know, in terms of a metaphor for looking after yourself.

06:31.231 –> 06:32.212
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that’s where it came from.

06:32.793 –> 06:38.301
[SPEAKER_02]: And do you think of the product of the business as the hat or the impact that you have?

06:38.585 –> 06:54.045
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely the impact, definitely the impact in fact that the hat is almost secondary to what we’re trying to do and you know we always thought this but we have proved it since launch people don’t come to us because they need a hat, you know they’re not going on holiday and going.

06:54.025 –> 07:20.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it’s going to be said I need a hat or you know those sorts of things they’re coming to us because of the mission because of the purpose because of because of what it’s all about and what we’re trying to do and then obviously they buy into it because they think oh yeah, I could I can wear a hat or you know some people buy the hats and and and sort of you know stick it on a shelf is a kind of an ornament some people have every color that we that we have put out there so whilst it is a hat brand it’s not necessarily about hats.

07:20.755 –> 07:23.118
[SPEAKER_02]: which makes so much sense, but so little sense.

07:24.119 –> 07:25.921
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s right, yes.

07:25.941 –> 07:30.786
[SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, we’re not trying to solve a gap in the market in terms of hats.

07:31.027 –> 07:33.890
[SPEAKER_01]: We’re not trying to make a hat that doesn’t currently exist.

07:33.930 –> 07:34.871
[SPEAKER_01]: It does.

07:35.151 –> 07:36.633
[SPEAKER_01]: And they’re very good hats.

07:36.993 –> 07:37.774
[SPEAKER_01]: They’re very premium.

07:38.175 –> 07:39.096
[SPEAKER_01]: They’re made of good materials.

07:39.116 –> 07:41.218
[SPEAKER_01]: They’re in 95% recycled materials.

07:41.859 –> 07:46.644
[SPEAKER_01]: So they’re a decent hat, but we’re not trying to solve a problem that hasn’t already been solved.

07:46.664 –> 07:50.188
[SPEAKER_01]: What we’re trying to do is help with a mission

07:50.725 –> 07:56.151
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it would have been so easy with the mission that you’ve got to just go and take a.n.

07:56.171 –> 08:15.633
[SPEAKER_02]: other baseball cap off the shelf and slap a logo on it, but you’ve got a lot more into the creation of the product and creating something that’s really worthwhile, not just, you know, going on to Ali Barbar by being some units, which I think you know, it would have been perfectly reasonable for you to do given the mission.

08:15.653 –> 08:18.977
[SPEAKER_02]: So why did you want to make sure the hat was really good as

08:19.261 –> 08:21.925
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, God, I wish we could have just stuck a logo on that.

08:22.366 –> 08:25.131
[SPEAKER_01]: On that, we could buy it in zero to be in a lot, a lot easier.

08:25.652 –> 08:39.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, the reason comes out of the proposition of the brand and that, you know, if we launch a hat and say, I was about men, well, if you really strip it back and say, right, we’re going to launch a hat, okay, why would anybody buy our hat?

08:39.515 –> 08:40.917
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don’t we, you know, the answer to that?

08:41.017 –> 08:45.184
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it because it’s got a cool logo, one ball, some people might not like that logo, some people might.

08:45.164 –> 08:51.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Let’s layer on, we want to have a, you know, a social effect and do some good in the mental health world.

08:51.715 –> 08:53.117
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let’s layer that on there.

08:53.137 –> 08:54.559
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that mean people would buy that hat?

08:54.579 –> 08:58.385
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they might buy into it a little bit more because of the purpose and the mission.

08:58.986 –> 09:00.148
[SPEAKER_01]: But it’s still just a hat.

09:00.288 –> 09:01.611
[SPEAKER_01]: So what can we do?

09:01.631 –> 09:06.639
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we kind of stripped everything back, layer by layer and go, does it still work without this, without this part of it?

09:06.719 –> 09:08.742
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it doesn’t, then we can’t do it.

09:08.722 –> 09:15.789
[SPEAKER_01]: So to explain that the hats are very clean and simple on the outside, very, you know, classic and kind of uncluttered.

09:15.809 –> 09:22.235
[SPEAKER_01]: But on the inside, we have a graphic, a pattern, and is what we call the brain freeze graphic.

09:22.275 –> 09:25.399
[SPEAKER_01]: But it’s representing that moment where just stuff becomes too much.

09:25.419 –> 09:27.120
[SPEAKER_01]: You’ve got too much going on inside your head.

09:27.961 –> 09:33.987
[SPEAKER_01]: And that came from the idea that when I was speaking to people after I lost my brother, a lot of people said that when they’re struggling,

09:33.967 –> 09:38.054
[SPEAKER_01]: they would look at other people and say, you know, why am I feeling like this?

09:38.214 –> 09:39.236
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone else is fine.

09:39.596 –> 09:40.778
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone else has got their life sorted.

09:40.878 –> 09:41.840
[SPEAKER_01]: Why am I feeling like this?

09:42.261 –> 09:47.369
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what we did to to to that, you know, a step further is said, well, on the inside is where all this stuff is going on.

09:47.389 –> 09:48.611
[SPEAKER_01]: So let’s put that on the inside.

09:48.631 –> 09:53.118
[SPEAKER_01]: So in fact, we spent more time designing the inside of the hat that people don’t see them designing the outside of the hat.

09:53.800 –> 10:00.210
[SPEAKER_01]: So without that kind of layer of storytelling, it doesn’t work as a as a proposition.

10:00.190 –> 10:05.018
[SPEAKER_01]: that then means is you cannot take an off-the-shelf hat and apply a pattern very well.

10:05.118 –> 10:08.564
[SPEAKER_01]: You can try and do it but very well to the inside of a hat equally.

10:08.604 –> 10:17.078
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn’t want to take a cheap hat that probably has a, you know, I don’t know has not been made particularly ethically or isn’t using very sort of sustainable materials or sorts of things.

10:17.338 –> 10:19.241
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had to go more bespoke for that.

10:19.301 –> 10:24.510
[SPEAKER_01]: So actually the hat itself is completely built from the ground up just to

10:25.216 –> 10:33.515
[SPEAKER_02]: make so much sense and it really just shows that that whole there’s no bit of your business that isn’t untouched by the mission.

10:33.936 –> 10:34.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

10:34.398 –> 10:40.592
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you mentioned to me before I said in the intro, you’re about to launch that your second product range.

10:40.572 –> 10:49.989
[SPEAKER_02]: Given you have this clear mission with the business, and as you’ve already said, it’s more important than the product that the physical product is, what’s the rationale for creating a second product?

10:50.009 –> 10:55.520
[SPEAKER_02]: Because presumably you could have, you don’t necessarily need a second product from the outside as perspective.

10:55.540 –> 10:58.706
[SPEAKER_02]: You’ve got the mission, we’ve got the hat, we don’t need anything else.

10:58.726 –> 11:03.795
[SPEAKER_02]: So why go, or tell us what the second product is, and then what the strategy behind it is.

11:04.501 –> 11:14.157
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, very, very simple really in that we’ve had lots of people and this is interesting when we sort of talking about the fact that the product isn’t necessary, the proposition.

11:14.737 –> 11:21.308
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of people saying, love what you’re doing really, really like the whole, you know, the whole story, the whole purpose.

11:21.368 –> 11:26.997
[SPEAKER_01]: We love the, I’m sure we’re talking about the packaging and I’m able to level the packaging that we do and the kind of the unboxing experience.

11:27.478 –> 11:28.720
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don’t wear hats.

11:28.700 –> 11:36.590
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’ve got a bet, sorry, that we’re baseball caps and I’ve got a, or I’ve got an overly large head or a small head of never found a hat that fits me all these sorts of things.

11:37.291 –> 11:44.701
[SPEAKER_01]: So that’s one aspect and other people who said, I always wear beany hats and everywhere baseball caps, baseball hats don’t look any good on me.

11:44.741 –> 11:46.863
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that’s the second range.

11:46.903 –> 11:54.353
[SPEAKER_01]: We’ve, we’ve launched into a, into beany hats just to sort of solve that thing where if somebody doesn’t want to wear a baseball cap, they always wear a beany hat.

11:54.333 –> 11:56.116
[SPEAKER_01]: then you know we can fulfill that.

11:56.517 –> 12:04.572
[SPEAKER_01]: What comes next as well is again to plug that gap is whilst we are a hat brand and we don’t want to go away from the fact that we are a hat brand that’s our primary message.

12:05.113 –> 12:14.771
[SPEAKER_01]: We ran one of our events last year and had some t-shirts for the staff to wear and everybody’s asking where they could buy the t-shirt and I say we don’t wear a hat brand and we don’t sell t-shirts and it’s what I would wear that.

12:14.791 –> 12:15.092
[SPEAKER_01]: So

12:15.072 –> 12:25.465
[SPEAKER_01]: we’re also launching a very simple range of t-shirts just so that people can buy into that if they don’t want to wear a hat but they still sort of want to be part of the brand and I guess represent the brand.

12:25.907 –> 12:28.896
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that’s the reasoning behind launching into other areas.

12:29.382 –> 12:32.327
[SPEAKER_02]: make so much sense when now you’ve explained it to me.

12:32.367 –> 12:39.841
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s like it’s it’s the only if we want to fill the mission we need to make make it available to everybody and not everybody who has baseball caps.

12:40.322 –> 12:41.123
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that’s right.

12:41.143 –> 12:44.770
[SPEAKER_01]: Sadly, I wish everybody did, but yes, that’s exactly it.

12:44.790 –> 12:47.494
[SPEAKER_02]: I I giggle as I am someone who doesn’t wear baseball caps.

12:47.595 –> 12:51.241
[SPEAKER_02]: Baseball caps plus fringe, terrible, terrible combination.

12:51.782 –> 12:54.006
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I interest you in a beanie?

12:54.509 –> 12:55.571
[SPEAKER_02]: We’ll talk after.

12:55.632 –> 13:03.470
[SPEAKER_02]: So you mentioned about the unboxing, which for me is a core part of the product as well.

13:03.570 –> 13:07.179
[SPEAKER_02]: So please explain to the audience what you’re doing with the unboxing.

13:07.199 –> 13:08.181
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think this is brilliant.

13:08.819 –> 13:21.216
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so as I said, when we built out the actual hat design and the story of the hat and we called that graphic or something inside of the hat, the brain free graphic because it represents that moment where your brain goes, just can’t take it anymore.

13:21.236 –> 13:22.538
[SPEAKER_01]: That this something’s got to change.

13:22.598 –> 13:25.502
[SPEAKER_01]: I’ve got to get it help or I’ve got to change my lifestyle.

13:25.522 –> 13:27.064
[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever it is,

13:27.044 –> 13:43.467
[SPEAKER_01]: And we kept referring to this thing as brain freeze and we were trying to look think of a way of getting, you know, unboxing videos, UGC on social channels, things that that social proof obviously is going to be massive in this because it then becomes part of the tribe and you know, you feel like you’re doing good by talking about the product.

13:43.447 –> 13:50.958
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, in the various brands and businesses I’ve helped over the years, we do a lot on unboxing.

13:51.138 –> 13:57.086
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s very hard to get brands to think about it other than a very functional thing.

13:57.467 –> 14:05.218
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to get that product about customers’ door, and it needs to be safe, and it needs to be kept dry or warm or cold or hot or whatever the product is.

14:05.198 –> 14:09.469
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think why isn’t that part of the proposition, it just tends to be very functional.

14:09.529 –> 14:15.224
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we thought was, well, if we’re talking about this brain freeze moment, what would really make people sort of go, wow, that’s that’s different.

14:15.244 –> 14:15.705
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s weird.

14:15.725 –> 14:18.412
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s quirky what, you know, and want to find out more about it.

14:18.753 –> 14:22.482
[SPEAKER_01]: So we created these massive oversized ice cream tubs.

14:22.462 –> 14:28.651
[SPEAKER_01]: and what we did is we designed them as though they were a separate brand, a separate product, so it was called Uncle Matt’s Brain Free’s Ice Cream.

14:29.372 –> 14:38.645
[SPEAKER_01]: And from a functional point of view, it is a hat box, so if you’re a sneak ahead that keeps their shoes in the boxes and keeps them more nice, then you can use it for that.

14:39.085 –> 14:42.170
[SPEAKER_01]: Other people use it for keep dog treats in or, you know, those things.

14:42.210 –> 14:52.384
[SPEAKER_01]: But the key thing for me was making something too good to throw away, so people wouldn’t actually sort of stick it in a bit, it becomes part of the part of the experience.

14:52.364 –> 15:05.380
[SPEAKER_01]: As I say, they’re branded up with an uncommatched brain free size screen, but what we’ve got on the back where you would normally have the things like the nutritional info, instead of having, you know, fats and carbohydrates, we’ve got things like confusion and stress and frustration and things of that.

15:05.400 –> 15:12.909
[SPEAKER_01]: How it all adds up, and, you know, it becomes to a total of too much almost like, you know, if you’re having something that’s really bad for you, that’s not good for you.

15:13.389 –> 15:21.679
[SPEAKER_01]: So it enables us to do all these sort of storytelling moments and little Easter eggs that people find as they go along the way, what we’ve then found is that that

15:21.659 –> 15:31.377
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where is, you know, in multiple businesses I’ve worked with, you know, we’re paying people for UGC because we want that content to post online or to pump into paid ads or whatever it may be.

15:31.897 –> 15:35.464
[SPEAKER_01]: We’re finding that we’re getting that organically without actually having to pay for that.

15:35.484 –> 15:46.063
[SPEAKER_01]: So somebody’s buying this using their own money and then doing us a very, very good piece of UGC unboxing the product, which we then sort of obviously gives us organics reach.

15:46.043 –> 15:55.297
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, we then talk to them and say, can we use that content on our website, which nine times out of 10 they say yes, can we pump that into more meta-rads?

15:55.417 –> 15:56.278
[SPEAKER_01]: They normally say yes.

15:56.899 –> 16:08.136
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it almost becomes this cyclical piece where your customers are creating the content for our acquisition piece, and which then obviously helps us acquire, it becomes repetitive.

16:08.116 –> 16:12.844
[SPEAKER_01]: The packaging also aids us with retention because it becomes quite highly giftable.

16:13.165 –> 16:24.966
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you’ve bought it and you’ve had a nice experience, you thought it was good and you know, something that’s, I really just want to buy it as a gift or somebody that’s going through a tricky time, or will it send them a giant ice cream top of the hat and it, and hopefully you know, make them a smile just for a few minutes.

16:25.447 –> 16:33.060
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we’ve got other ideas for other types of hats, where we stick them in other strange packaging, which then hopefully it becomes a bit collectible.

16:33.040 –> 16:49.530
[SPEAKER_01]: As you say, every part of what we’ve done has been for a reason, whether it’s to A or A, or acquisition to fuel our retention, whether it’s our gifting piece, whether it’s our content piece, we also then get, we put these tubs in an outer box, because obviously we don’t want the tubs to be damaged in transit.

16:49.510 –> 16:52.313
[SPEAKER_01]: And on the outside of the box, it says, keep chill.

16:52.353 –> 16:57.639
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s got lots of ice cream and keep refrigerated type wording on there.

16:57.659 –> 17:05.768
[SPEAKER_01]: And what we found is that it gives us some brilliant content and really good stories where people have panic because they’ve signed for an order for somebody and they’ve gone, oh my God, it’s ice cream and eat to freeze this.

17:06.309 –> 17:12.816
[SPEAKER_01]: And we’ve had pictures of it appearing of freezes in co-working spaces, stuff like that, whereas the customer couldn’t find.

17:12.856 –> 17:17.762
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s sort of again, it gives us good content, good storytelling, and all of that helps to fuel the mission.

17:18.248 –> 17:27.999
[SPEAKER_02]: I find it so fascinating the way in which in your business you have managed to take the product and the mission and the needs of an e-commerce business, i.e.

17:28.099 –> 17:37.970
[SPEAKER_02]: sales and repeat purchases and customer love and all of this and combine them into one strategy that delivers on all fronts.

17:38.450 –> 17:41.033
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it’s such a lesson for

17:41.013 –> 18:07.307
[SPEAKER_02]: for all of us on if you actually have that clear vision and mission in the business and you actually think about these different points in the customer journey you can do so much with so little you know in terms of it’s a it’s a it’s a brand box around the ice cream tub box around a baseball cap but yet it takes so many boxes both for your mission and for the customer journey and for the need for UGC content for marketing and and and and and and and and and and

18:08.418 –> 18:09.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, that’s it.

18:09.559 –> 18:15.284
[SPEAKER_01]: And we tend to think about, you know, scrutinize everything where, is there an opportunity in this thing?

18:15.445 –> 18:18.708
[SPEAKER_01]: So for example, on the outside of the box, it says, keep chillers, I’ve said.

18:19.388 –> 18:35.083
[SPEAKER_01]: But then there’s a little note underneath it that talks to the delivery driver that says, don’t worry, you don’t really need to keep this refrigerated, but what we’re doing is that it’s very short paragraph of of text, but actually explains the mission to the delivery driver because, you know, we thought, well, actually,

18:35.063 –> 18:44.558
[SPEAKER_01]: being pure, pure play and D to C, every one of our purchases will be handled by multiple people when it leaves us to land with the customer.

18:44.578 –> 18:46.541
[SPEAKER_01]: So let’s use that as an opportunity.

18:46.581 –> 18:48.183
[SPEAKER_01]: Let’s try and tell the story to them as well.

18:48.284 –> 18:49.986
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know, they might think, what the hell is this thing?

18:50.026 –> 18:52.029
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn’t feel like ice cream is quite light.

18:52.089 –> 18:56.456
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know, all that sort of intrigue and storytelling, where can you apply storytelling?

18:56.637 –> 18:57.578
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we can, we do.

18:58.351 –> 19:02.316
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned earlier that you have an event program.

19:03.217 –> 19:06.140
[SPEAKER_02]: We’re not talking a pop-up shop while you’re selling some hats away.

19:06.300 –> 19:09.564
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s more of a seminar, but that’d be a fair word.

19:09.864 –> 19:10.905
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, exactly that.

19:10.985 –> 19:11.506
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly that.

19:11.546 –> 19:16.712
[SPEAKER_01]: So as part of our mission, we’ve said, we’re very much in terms of the mental health space.

19:16.812 –> 19:27.244
[SPEAKER_01]: We’re trying to sit at the kind of the prevention and of the scale, normalizing enough, getting enough people to talk about it, that if and when you do have an issue

19:27.224 –> 19:30.307
[SPEAKER_01]: sorts, you don’t go on a god what the hell is wrong with me?

19:30.967 –> 19:35.632
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m the only person that’s ever felt like this, I need to take drastic action, which obviously is what happened with my brother.

19:36.272 –> 19:37.733
[SPEAKER_01]: So normalizing all those things.

19:37.773 –> 19:44.139
[SPEAKER_01]: So the way we do that is obviously, you know, taking a bit of an irrelevant approach to the subjects.

19:44.159 –> 19:51.106
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, sticking a giant ice cream tub, but also these events that we put on are basically gathering people.

19:51.166 –> 19:57.231
[SPEAKER_01]: So gathering people, much like you would do in the marketing e-com space where we all turn up to, you know, seminars

19:57.211 –> 20:18.240
[SPEAKER_01]: conferences and things like that and learn about what people are doing in our world, it’s exactly that, but for the mental health world, so we have speakers on that may be podcasters in the mental health space or people that run community groups, or even just people talking about their own experiences, we had a collaboration with Barclays where we ran one in there.

20:18.220 –> 20:20.905
[SPEAKER_01]: in their sort of flagship story and in more gate.

20:20.925 –> 20:27.338
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had one of their vice presidents just talking about his experiences and his issues that he’s experienced in the past, you know.

20:27.379 –> 20:31.026
[SPEAKER_01]: So becomes just a way of sort of telling the story without being too heavy.

20:31.046 –> 20:34.052
[SPEAKER_01]: What we didn’t want to be do is being too prescriptive and saying,

20:34.032 –> 20:47.142
[SPEAKER_01]: To improve your mental health, you must do this, this, this, this, this, this, you know, we don’t know, we’re all in the same boat, you know, and what what works for you might not work for for someone else, but it allows us to start having those conversations and that is a massive part of our give back.

20:47.864 –> 20:51.552
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other part is with a part of charity, which is much more at the

20:51.532 –> 20:54.697
[SPEAKER_01]: intervention end of the scale where, you know, people need help.

20:54.757 –> 21:01.206
[SPEAKER_01]: So we, we support a charity court chasing this stigma that has a directory of all mental health services where people can get help online.

21:01.266 –> 21:10.419
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so, yes, it is whilst, obviously, you know, we do sell hats there and we encourage people to buy hats there, that’s not the purpose of the event.

21:10.439 –> 21:20.914
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way it will comes together, but I must ask you about the marketing decisions in the business

21:21.046 –> 21:30.422
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s especially hard when you have a mission driven business when you’re, you know, contributing to charities and doing or this good is how much do you spend on marketing, which channels do you go down?

21:30.442 –> 21:32.505
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if someone came to you said, I’m not seeing a hat brand.

21:32.525 –> 21:34.669
[SPEAKER_02]: I go right into the X, Y, and Z to grow it.

21:34.709 –> 21:40.318
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think I feel like I’d be making different decisions if I was running a vision mission business.

21:40.699 –> 21:47.290
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you found, you know, with all your experience working for, you know, advising many, many businesses and running a much bigger business in the past?

21:47.270 –> 21:55.710
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you found you’ve made different decisions about the marketing because of the mission of the business or is it still the same playbook?

21:56.180 –> 22:03.992
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think there’s a couple of things that I think, you know, obviously on this, I’ve been able to do it’s actually what I feel is right.

22:04.012 –> 22:11.543
[SPEAKER_01]: You obviously, you know, advising businesses as always, there’s always other, I guess, forces that, you know, allow or prevent you to do certain things.

22:11.604 –> 22:15.489
[SPEAKER_01]: So I’ve kind of had free reigns, so I’ve ever, maybe overindulged myself.

22:15.910 –> 22:22.440
[SPEAKER_01]: But equally, I think part of the thing of being a startup and, you know, not having a massive budget,

22:22.420 –> 22:27.065
[SPEAKER_01]: For some other businesses, we may have solved an issue by saying, OK, we’ve got that budget.

22:27.105 –> 22:33.312
[SPEAKER_01]: We can flood the market with that particular messaging, or we can utilize budget to solve that problem.

22:34.153 –> 22:37.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Not necessarily just throwing money at it, but doing it in a considered way.

22:37.898 –> 22:39.059
[SPEAKER_01]: We don’t have that budget.

22:39.079 –> 22:41.922
[SPEAKER_01]: So everything needs to work a lot harder for us.

22:42.383 –> 22:44.285
[SPEAKER_01]: So the packaging needs to do a job.

22:44.866 –> 22:48.630
[SPEAKER_01]: The product needs to do a job.

22:48.610 –> 22:51.896
[SPEAKER_01]: experience of unboxing needs to do a job and provide us that UGC.

22:51.956 –> 22:59.670
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess everything is kind of been designed to reduce down the need for that aid acquisition.

23:00.271 –> 23:07.665
[SPEAKER_01]: So whilst we obviously do support that with a small budget, if we tell these stories and we create this kind of a hook,

23:07.949 –> 23:14.199
[SPEAKER_01]: We in theory don’t need to spend as much on acquiring a customer as another brand would do.

23:14.639 –> 23:18.946
[SPEAKER_01]: Particularly if there are another me too, Brad, you know, it’s very hard competitive space where you say, what’s different about this product?

23:19.066 –> 23:21.470
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it’s the same as that other product over there.

23:21.931 –> 23:24.975
[SPEAKER_01]: So we’re going to trade on price, so we’re going to pay more in terms of advertising.

23:25.236 –> 23:34.530
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, all the things we’ve got in our arsenal, the more different we make our brand, the easier it is to cut through, and therefore the less we have to pay to acquire a customer.

23:37.227 –> 23:42.094
[SPEAKER_00]: E-commerce master plan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.

23:42.234 –> 23:50.526
[SPEAKER_00]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

23:50.546 –> 23:52.409
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s time for the top tips round.

23:55.233 –> 23:59.940
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this section because me and our listeners are really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

24:00.000 –> 24:01.803
[SPEAKER_02]: Steve are you ready for the top tips?

24:02.403 –> 24:03.505
[SPEAKER_01]: It was born ready.

24:04.345 –> 24:04.806
[SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.

24:04.887 –> 24:11.848
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, the book top tip if everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better.

24:12.169 –> 24:13.714
[SPEAKER_02]: Which book would you recommend?

24:14.167 –> 24:32.509
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I’m not a massive fan of business growth book, so I think they can all be a bit kind of convoluted, but one of the ones that has always stuck with me, and I’m sure many people have seen it, many listeners have seen it, is the start with why, so the Simonsonic book, which is all around, why, why are you doing that thing?

24:32.589 –> 24:33.871
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you making that product?

24:34.231 –> 24:43.482
[SPEAKER_01]: So not the what you’re doing, not the how you’re doing, but the why, and I think that’s always stuck with me, one with the work I do with other brands, and how is that product or service different,

24:43.462 –> 24:46.066
[SPEAKER_01]: definitely with this, you know, what why are we doing this?

24:46.467 –> 24:49.651
[SPEAKER_01]: We’re not doing this to actually enable people to put some hats on their heads.

24:49.712 –> 24:50.533
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s not the purpose.

24:51.474 –> 24:52.456
[SPEAKER_02]: Great recommendation.

24:53.057 –> 24:59.867
[SPEAKER_02]: The traffic top tip even, which marketing method do we either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves.

25:00.657 –> 25:08.025
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I’m still very heavily, you know, email focused, you know, you’re here still a lot of things saying how emails, dead and things like that.

25:08.066 –> 25:13.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, any number of the businesses I work with and even in my business, that’s simply not true.

25:13.652 –> 25:22.822
[SPEAKER_01]: So in terms of traffic driver, I think, you know, you tend to sometimes have to rely on the paid channels, so meta Google, those sorts of things, to drive traffic.

25:22.863 –> 25:24.184
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the biggest

25:24.164 –> 25:32.232
[SPEAKER_01]: thing that people don’t do is they look as a primary conversion goal of getting an order, getting a purchase, which obviously everybody’s going to want to do.

25:32.613 –> 25:38.259
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think what people don’t do is look at a secondary conversion goal and say, well, if they don’t purchase, what else can I get?

25:38.579 –> 25:40.321
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully that’s an email address.

25:40.701 –> 25:48.810
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I can get an email address, I can then start talking to these people in explaining why, why we’re different, you know, how well, why we, that they should buy into our, our brand.

25:48.850 –> 25:49.210
[SPEAKER_01]: So,

25:49.190 –> 25:54.960
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you know, definitely need to rely on those page channels for traffic, but definitely second conversion for email.

25:54.980 –> 25:55.822
[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully agree with you.

25:56.503 –> 25:57.244
[SPEAKER_02]: Tooltop tip.

25:57.304 –> 26:06.220
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone-up or just a way of working, is there a call-it-all tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day-to-day.

26:06.757 –> 26:23.435
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this probably says more about me than anything else, but I’ve fallen in love with AI note takers simply because I’ve gotten to the point where I was writing so many notes and all these things and I come back in the guy, I don’t know, there’s just me that I’m bad at writing notes, but I do not know what my notes mean.

26:23.755 –> 26:36.409
[SPEAKER_01]: They do not make any sense to me, so actually be the able to rely on AI note takers and then be able to almost prompt them to give me the information I need out of all the meetings and things that I’ve attended.

26:37.182 –> 26:39.845
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a I have a love hate relationship with them.

26:39.865 –> 26:52.537
[SPEAKER_02]: I think yeah I think if I was still a consultant doing lots of client calls and catch ups or if I was still running the marketing agency you know with lots of client calls and in depth new business calls.

26:52.577 –> 26:56.121
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I’d use them just to have a black and white record.

26:56.561 –> 27:03.088
[SPEAKER_02]: What have been said and I probably would be using them in the way you

27:03.068 –> 27:05.652
[SPEAKER_02]: I keep being there again, I’m not letting you in today.

27:06.193 –> 27:14.266
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t think I’ve looked back at the notes it’s taken once, so I’m loving it and people rave about it and just like you did, but I’m not, I can’t find a way to make it useful.

27:14.827 –> 27:24.963
[SPEAKER_01]: But the only problem I have is that I then go into, I rely on the too much, I go into face-to-face meetings, forget to take notes, and then come out and try and find the AI notes, obviously wasn’t there.

27:25.484 –> 27:27.928
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, oh, what was that thing we said?

27:28.313 –> 27:34.522
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I have a tip for that, which is, um, record the meeting on your mobile phone, obviously ask permission first.

27:34.562 –> 27:34.762
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

27:35.223 –> 27:36.044
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

27:36.064 –> 27:40.591
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s weird because people are happy to be recorded on a video call, but they’re not happy to be recorded in person.

27:40.871 –> 27:41.332
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?

27:41.392 –> 27:41.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

27:42.053 –> 27:42.654
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s really strange.

27:42.674 –> 27:43.755
[SPEAKER_01]: There’s a psychological thing there.

27:43.775 –> 27:44.376
[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t know what it is.

27:45.017 –> 27:45.838
[SPEAKER_02]: How fascinating.

27:45.898 –> 27:47.360
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we should, we’re in the top tips.

27:47.421 –> 27:48.923
[SPEAKER_02]: We should be, we should be in the next one.

27:49.003 –> 27:50.485
[SPEAKER_02]: But I love, thank you for the tips.

27:51.126 –> 27:51.326
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

27:51.346 –> 27:52.428
[SPEAKER_02]: The carbon top tip.

27:52.448 –> 27:56.093
[SPEAKER_02]: What’s your favorite way to

27:56.596 –> 28:11.132
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, fairly kind of basic, you know, I encourage people not to use single use plastic to, you know, use cardboard, we’re a little bit guilty because we do send a, you know, quite a lot of air with our, with our parcels because of the whole ice cream type of things like that.

28:11.212 –> 28:19.921
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think just keeping it as minimal as possible, you know, when producing what sustain what’s it materials can you use as to say, I had said, 95% recycled plastic.

28:20.421 –> 28:23.785
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it’s just not using materials when you don’t need to.

28:24.575 –> 28:25.877
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally agree with you.

28:25.937 –> 28:31.006
[SPEAKER_02]: And personally, I think the amount of air you’re shipping is justified by the goals.

28:31.607 –> 28:32.068
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thank you.

28:32.188 –> 28:32.428
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

28:32.448 –> 28:36.836
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you’ve got my tick in the shipping too much air box.

28:37.517 –> 28:37.617
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

28:37.697 –> 28:38.158
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

28:38.178 –> 28:39.200
[SPEAKER_02]: The good side of that anyway.

28:39.580 –> 28:46.532
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, Steve, before we say goodbye, could you please at the list as now when they can find out more about you and on call Matt Tats.

28:46.765 –> 28:50.409
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so on Comments Hats is exactly that, on Comments Hats on all the social channels.

28:50.449 –> 28:55.374
[SPEAKER_01]: So on Instagram, TikTok, on Facebook, we’re all just at Uncomments Hats.

28:56.074 –> 28:57.776
[SPEAKER_01]: The website is on CommentsHats.com.

28:58.297 –> 29:00.559
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, just Google Uncomments Hats and you’ll find us.

29:01.159 –> 29:01.860
[SPEAKER_02]: Simple as that.

29:01.880 –> 29:08.407
[SPEAKER_02]: And Steve, you also work and help with other e-commerce brands with their challenges and problems.

29:08.427 –> 29:14.713
[SPEAKER_02]: So could you please tell the audience a little bit about what you get up to and how they can get in contact if they want your help.

29:15.048 –> 29:23.195
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I tend to work with businesses mainly between kind of five and 10 million some larger than that in terms of turnover.

29:23.675 –> 29:33.464
[SPEAKER_01]: But it’s kind of, because I’ve been on all aspects of e-commerce, I normally say what do you need help with and nine times out of 10, I can help.

29:33.984 –> 29:38.588
[SPEAKER_01]: If I can’t help, I normally know somebody that can because I’ve had to seek them out in the past.

29:38.628 –> 29:40.810
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a good network of people that can help on those fronts.

29:40.830 –> 29:44.093
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I guess you’ll find me on LinkedIn.

29:44.579 –> 29:49.293
[SPEAKER_02]: Always linked in, or as I’m Steve, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

29:49.313 –> 29:54.068
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s been fascinating learning about what you’re up to with Uncle Matt’s hat, so thank you so much for being here.

29:54.810 –> 29:55.332
[SPEAKER_01]: No, thank you.

29:55.372 –> 29:55.693
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

29:55.733 –> 29:56.395
[SPEAKER_01]: Appreciate it.

30:01.859 –> 30:30.246
[SPEAKER_02]: assinating stuff there from Steve, and I think he may be running a relatively small business at the moment, but there’s so much we can all take away from that in terms of how thought through each element of it is, you know, just that the ice cream tub packaging, how that delivers on mission, on value, on literally exciting the people who are handling it as it gets to the person who receives it and bringing that little part of joy, and then how they bring the

30:30.226 –> 30:35.634
[SPEAKER_02]: but also to build community and to build conversations, super fascinating business.

30:36.215 –> 30:38.598
[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope you had some good takeaways from that one too.

30:39.039 –> 30:53.179
[SPEAKER_02]: You can get your hands on our notes from this episode including the top tips and links to what we’ve mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterplan.com or you can use our directed episode short links that’s ECMP.info forward slash the episode number.

30:53.159 –> 30:57.824
[SPEAKER_02]: When you get to the website, you can also add yourself to the Chloe Thomas newsletter list.

30:57.844 –> 31:01.608
[SPEAKER_02]: So you don’t miss out on any of the stuff I’m sharing to help you improve your business.

31:02.710 –> 31:06.133
[SPEAKER_02]: If you liked this episode, then I’ve got a recommendation for you.

31:06.394 –> 31:08.456
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not have a listen to episode 457, 457?

31:08.476 –> 31:13.662
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I’m chatting with another fashion brand on a mission.

31:14.062 –> 31:15.664
[SPEAKER_02]: Canada’s Frank and Oak.

31:16.044 –> 31:18.627
[SPEAKER_02]: So that’s episode 457.

31:18.607 –> 31:27.480
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you want more episodes about fashion than head to ECMP.info forward-sash fashion to find all the fashion episodes on the website.

31:28.161 –> 31:32.167
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

31:32.668 –> 31:44.445
[SPEAKER_02]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

31:44.425 –> 31:49.593
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

31:49.894 –> 32:04.797
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.