WEBVTT

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[SPEAKER_00]: Good SEO is good GEO.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The core principles are still exactly the same.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If your brand is on Reddit and if your consumers are on Reddit and you focus on that, then you will just naturally, if you do good work and you have good brand authority, you will just naturally be a chat GPT top contender.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All of these large language models are data consumers

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It has to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s great to have you here.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

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[SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we’re tackling another WWID.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it’s a what would you do episode.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This time, we are drilling deep into one marketing challenge that I expect all of you are thinking about right now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: A.I.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Search slash GEO, call it what you will.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We call it geo, but it’s a big question mark at the moment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What do you need to do?

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[SPEAKER_02]: What do you need to care about?

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[SPEAKER_02]: How do you track it?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Quack sort of results?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Can you expect what you do with your team to make it to deliver on it?

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[SPEAKER_02]: All this kind of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We are going to be discussing with

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[SPEAKER_02]: Today’s brilliant guest, she has a scary level of knowledge about the world of SEO, digital marketing, customer experience and so on and so forth.

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[SPEAKER_02]: She’s currently working for a very large UK retailer and she has taken some time out to help explain how she is tackling this challenge in the coming year and letting you know what you need to do, what you don’t need to do and various other bits and pieces.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I promise you by the end of this, she will feel more at ease with the GEO idea.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So do enjoy this episode and make sure you listen right to the end because she’s got some great top tips as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And now to introduce our special guest, Miracle in a Metty Archabong is an online marketer who’s been deep in SEO since 2010.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Now working at a very large UK retailer after stints in other verticals and agency side.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Mira.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Chloe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome to have you on the show to cover a topic that I know a lot of our audience are

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[SPEAKER_02]: struggling with.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Let’s say, confused, getting pressure from above, all this kind of good stuff at the moment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it’s really great to have you with your vast experience on to help us with it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But first of all, my intro was unfairly short.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I feel with all your experience.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So how did you get into this world of e-commerce and SEO?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it’s very, it’s a very, I don’t know, it was a straight road, very zigzaggy way into it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I came to the UK in 2007, and I came to do like a digital marketing course.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And at that time, I was very interested in video-readed channels.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I’m going to learn how to do all these things for the web.

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[SPEAKER_00]: as we call it then and then you know I did an internship and I got into the page of marketing and digital marketing and then someone said oh there’s this other side where you can then get things into the organic site like we didn’t really call it SEO then it was just

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know web optimization and then that’s just how I got into it and then somehow you know the market started to grow you had this thing on your CV that everyone was getting to know about and wanted to do so and that’s how I just started on that part and I thought it really interesting because I have a kind of forensic brain where I like to don’t I get bored if and that’s why

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[SPEAKER_00]: No offense to the BPCP experts in the room.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was like, oh, I’ve said, add done rinse repeat isn’t it 16 characters.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Google is no more you spend more help and information to give you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I like the whole forensic side of SEO, where you’re like trying to understand what’s happening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You’re testing things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody quiet knows this watch for me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This didn’t work.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, Google’s tank.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This whole method.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is, it’s so I think I like the highs and the lows of the industry.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A big too much for my own good.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But I think you have to, you know, to be a successful SEO person, especially as you work in bigger companies and with larger teams.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That first for knowledge and trying to, you know, reverse engineer things is, and testing is just so essential.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I’m guessing then that you have loved the addition of the world of geo to the world, you know, geo.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I search, pull it what we will to the world of SEO because it gives you a whole other thing to get for us.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, it’s so exciting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s so exciting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s making SEO great again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s so exciting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If I can use, I think it’s a great opportunity for search because

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we’ll get to a whole conversation about strategy and what people should do or what people should not do, but it’s making, you know, where SEO is always that they’re on song hero of where we don’t quite understand your tactics and how x-wise it equals to money.

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[SPEAKER_00]: because of how big AI is in general, not just like large language models, everyone’s now paying attention, and overall it’s a really great thing for the industry.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But then again, it’s yet another thing that we can, we have to discover ourselves, we have to investigate, we have to understand, and that’s it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Any new form of learning is always looks like it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: isn’t it just but then hopefully in this episode we’re going to fast track everybody’s learning a bit and give them a bit more reassurance about what is quite a discombobulating topic I think for many at the moment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So let’s where to where to start with how do we how do we deal with all of this?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think

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[SPEAKER_02]: First off, where are we trying to get seen?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because sometimes it’s about being seen in chatGBT, A and other agents, answers, and discussions.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So people discover you via that and then you get, you know, links through to the website.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Other times it’s product microendation engines.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then other times it’s trying to get to that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: bit at the top of Google, the AI snippet piece.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So how do you, how are you, or how would you advise a retailer to be focusing on where it is they’re trying to appear with all this opportunity of Geo because I mean like when it comes to search engines we’ve been

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[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve been treated quite nicely.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I will stop and let you answer in a second, I promise.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But we’ve been, it’s been quite easy here in the West, because Google’s 80% of the market.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve just had one thing to worry about.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The goal is to be high up on Google.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Now, part of the GEO goal is to be high up on Google, or it might be to be ranking well on chatGBT, or it might be you to be doing well on co-pilot.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There’s all these,

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[SPEAKER_02]: different.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There’s no winner yet.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There’s no one place we want to be.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So where would you where are you advising retailers to focus?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Where would you focus?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing to say is that good SEO is good geo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that’s the most important thing that everyone needs to take away from this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, Godesio is good Gio.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The core principles are still exactly the same.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s where everyone should be starting from.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s still, I think the key thing is, all of these large language models are data consumers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in order to be able to get data, you still need technical SEO.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in that way, where your site has to be accessible, they need to be able to crawl it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They need to be able to download the data.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They need to be able to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you still need to be fast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And those are still all principles of technical SEO.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You need to structure your page in the way that they can access this data, understand it because they can’t read English, isn’t it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: They’re converting things to numbers, understanding structures.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So using schema, so all of the core principles of

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[SPEAKER_00]: General SEO still exists like they’re looking for good content.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They’re looking for trustworthy content and that’s where we’re now You see a lot of people are not talking about brand and people tend to brand because imagine like the amount of content that’s in the world now It’s like I think when Google was sued They last of so many lawsuits.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They said they had over 400 billion websites in their index

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, for all of these large language models, the key is, how do we understand these data, how do we even pass in, how do we then suffice the most trustworthy data?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because right now, they’re acting as answer engines, we’re at, before they could indicate the responsibility and be like, well, this recommendation is from the guidance.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s, you know, this recommendation is from this, but now they’re pulling the guidance recommendation x-waysers recommendation, and then mixing it up and giving you their own answers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so they want to be right every time, and that’s now brand-dissented.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is where brands will win, because they’re like, okay, we trust this brand, we will rely on that information.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the core principles

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, of SEO still wealthy, like Google just had their recent search central subject.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They said that again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it depends on where you stand and like trusting Google or not trusting Google.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, looking at it from a common sense level, you know, standing behind all the noise, the core principle still exists.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like GemNye gets most of his information from

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[SPEAKER_00]: the web.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like most of these websites, most of this large language models get most of the information from the web.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It just depends on what training data they’re using on what their focus is on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like Gemly focuses on like the web, which I mean Google has the largest index or why wouldn’t it use that ready of available information.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Chat GPT focuses on the heavily rely on like social media ready.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So again, when you’re thinking of where should I focus?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would say,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Rather than doing what we did in the past and making that whole mistake in the when the digital era came and people stopped focusing on brand and also at chasing search engines, focus on your brand, focus on where your audience is, and then let the large language model.

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[SPEAKER_00]: kind of re-engineer themselves so in the way that if your brand is on Reddit and if your consumers are on Reddit and you focus on that then you will just naturally if you if you do good work and you have good brand authority you will just naturally be a chat GPT top contender

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you were always a Google your audience go to search and do that and then you you have great rankings there then you will just naturally be featured in Gemni.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that’s where you know saying good SEO is good geo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now I wouldn’t stop there and be like there’s nothing else to do because there is definitely something else to do and that’s now like looking at

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[SPEAKER_00]: how you then restructure your strategy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s where I’m kind of focusing on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So where as before, you know, brands will go after, or business is more go after, every generic keyword, you know, on the surface of the yet, anything that is almost like a, a TED step from their audience to cover all grounds.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Don’t strategies, don’t, you’re just the waste of your time, isn’t it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: information queries, more and more and more being pulled, being answered directly by your AI overviews and all of these airlines and things like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you’re not going to get, you know, if you’re not the right authority for that, that query or that content,

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[SPEAKER_00]: why you wasting your time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s where to put your efforts isn’t it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You now have to be hyper focused on putting your efforts or what will give you results because a lot of people are are reporting this and we’re seeing this as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Where you have loads of impressions for different content.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But no clicks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So why would I want to focus my time?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then feeding the data log with loads of content that offers me no value.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you’re doing stuff, make sure stuff they’ll offer you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I’m not saying you can’t do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: content anymore, but make sure that it’s content that is offering additional value to your user, not just for the sake of general visibility, because how many people like you see with the LLMs, they’re putting like a link symbol, how many people actually click on the

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like once I have my information, why would I want to do this at it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The greatest example I use is baking a cake.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Usually I have like, I’m like, I’m going to bake the cake on Saturday.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have, you know, a top of butter which is 250g and I’m like, oh, this is the cake I’m going to make.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I come downstairs, my sons used to have to make cookies, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to make a cake.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just go to, you know, whatever LLM and say, hey, I now have 50g of butter, give me a recipe, blah, blah, blah, blah, that, you know, and it gives me that recipe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I’m not going to click to see who provided the alternative recipe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I’m just going to take that content and go away with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s like, you just really have to be high before costing your strategy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: in creating things like, before you would see, you know, the brand or the product team we usually come to the SEO team and be like, oh, we have this new product and there’s like this feature, that feature and the SEO team will be like, well, nobody’s searching for that, that’s a brand thing we don’t care about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All of that’s changed now because

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[SPEAKER_00]: so many long-tail queries, so many the way user searches are evolving, now you should be jumping on all of those niche details and everything, and flesh and those are because that’s what you’re user wants to know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that in the way that you approach your content creation and your strategy creation, all of that’s changed, rather that, but again, you don’t do all of this but to the

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[SPEAKER_02]: It is such a look at, I have about 20 follow-up questions for you on that one, but I’m going to break it down a little bit and do a bit of summary and then I will give you another question.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So what I’m taking if you’re answering, we don’t need to get over worried about where we’re trying to appear.

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[SPEAKER_02]: If we’re following the technical

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[SPEAKER_02]: requirements that we would do for SEO around schema, around page, readability and all this kind of stuff, then we’re going to be delivering the right things to the right engines and it will happen.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it’s not like we have one team working on Google SEO and one team working on Gemini and one team working on chatty BT and one team working on Copilot is all the same activity.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We’ve just got to make sure we’ve actually done it, which I think is where a lot of people are having

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then the rest of it, the building trust and the content strategy, that side of things has changed quite massively.

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[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of it now, I love the way you sum it up as a brand focus.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s not about creating a big old list of keywords.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s about going,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Where are we strong?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Where should we be talking about?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Where should we be creating content about?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Where do our customers want to hear us creating content?

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, your example of Reddit.

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[SPEAKER_02]: If anyone’s is picked up and go, oh, we need to go and get big on Reddit.

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[SPEAKER_02]: If your customers weren’t already, I mean, go and double check.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is anyone already talking about you and your topic over there?

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[SPEAKER_02]: If they’re not, don’t do it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s not going to work because you need that you need that validity and that kind of almost ecosystem of content.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, you’re one lone voice in the wind, which is not going to get picked up.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think as we go into 2026 and beyond, we’re going to more and more be talking about the cohesive content system of an entity and how well that all matches up together.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is that what you’re saying?

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[SPEAKER_02]: The brand, we got outlier random stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We shouldn’t be talking

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it’s that week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we’ve always said this for a long time and never done it isn’t it like no services are silo.

16:27.020 –> 16:38.865
[SPEAKER_00]: Like no services are silo, you can’t and now even more, but people that had always treated like digital as the silo brand of the silo peer as a silo and all of these things work together.

16:38.845 –> 16:55.842
[SPEAKER_00]: a key thing about PR, you know, and why it’s, you would hear so many people in the SEO industry saying it’s making a resurgence because at some point it got like a really bad rap because of all the, the Google penalties is that, you know, with the way that LLMs.

16:55.822 –> 17:02.868
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of interpret language is that, you know, they’ve been turning into numbers and numbers then look at frequency and all of these things.

17:02.908 –> 17:07.632
[SPEAKER_00]: So reputation and consistency really matters for LLMs.

17:08.113 –> 17:18.041
[SPEAKER_00]: If you’re trying to be known for something, that replication to build up the frequency and to know that this is the next best thing, you know, because when you say like, no crane of a spilled milk.

17:18.061 –> 17:25.828
[SPEAKER_00]: So they know, for example, if you’re a confner of the cells, you know, unique

17:25.808 –> 17:38.163
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn’t that doesn’t make sense from just say they want to see each like in ten places saying unique close for ecosystems unique and then they know once they mentioned that brand what does these do they know exactly unique?

17:38.183 –> 17:40.349
[SPEAKER_00]: Ten, close for ecosystems.

17:40.389 –> 17:41.151
[SPEAKER_00]: So

17:41.131 –> 17:47.662
[SPEAKER_00]: that’s where all of this so your PR agency or your PR can’t just go ahead and keep doing something else.

17:47.742 –> 17:52.571
[SPEAKER_00]: When you know that we’re trying to be recognized as the brand for ecosystems, you see what I mean?

17:52.611 –> 17:59.022
[SPEAKER_00]: So it’s that everyone needs to be singing the same song with the same heap, you know, so that

17:59.002 –> 18:21.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, when the seller learns when they get the data, when they map it out, when they understand the frequency, that reputation is there, that consistency is there, that reinforcement of languages there and so that the models and under data sets understand that this is exactly what you’re trying to say and this is who you are and what they should be teaching you for.

18:21.867 –> 18:35.021
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, in the e-commerce space, we’re already seeing almost a revival of SEO core principles because everyone seems to care more about AI than they do about SEO despite the traffic in a qualities of those two things at the moment.

18:35.542 –> 18:38.465
[SPEAKER_02]: But is at least getting people to do what they should have done all along?

18:39.266 –> 18:45.893
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the other thing we’re going to be seeing is almost a revival of not link building.

18:46.574 –> 18:51.840
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess I mean, high quality link building, offsite content.

18:51.820 –> 19:09.643
[SPEAKER_02]: in terms of higher quality social media activity, higher quality PR activity to get that repetition of our core message in more places in order to feed a clear review to the LLMs of what our business is but also to build that trust and that authority.

19:10.064 –> 19:12.647
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that something you see being a part of this?

19:12.779 –> 19:19.974
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so it’s not really about links anymore, more about citations, is getting those citations in everywhere.

19:20.094 –> 19:25.084
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love what you said about like higher quality social media is doing less.

19:25.823 –> 19:45.857
[SPEAKER_00]: doing you know you do less but you do the less really well because before it was all about what quantity is mass and mass and mass and mass and so much information overload that you know which is kind of really mean to it and nobody understood you know what do we who do I trust is like top list of laptops

19:45.837 –> 19:47.019
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this paid?

19:47.039 –> 19:49.263
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this, you know, it’s a affiliate site.

19:49.303 –> 19:50.185
[SPEAKER_00]: What am I doing?

19:50.205 –> 19:51.808
[SPEAKER_00]: And then people run to socials.

19:52.328 –> 19:55.214
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there’s all of the influence of culture.

19:55.554 –> 19:59.301
[SPEAKER_00]: And it’s, everyone’s just looking for where is the source that I can trust.

19:59.341 –> 20:07.896
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s why you see LLM’s, like, tattoo, PT, Lening, Torsept, more Torsept because they’re like, Oh, maybe the social lag, Goridins are the ones to trust in.

20:07.876 –> 20:20.755
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s all of these things where, and that’s where, you know, you have systems like fraud, that’s more research-based, everyone’s like, what’s the key thing that I can trust now, and that’s going to be really interesting.

20:21.393 –> 20:31.084
[SPEAKER_02]: So for someone listening, who is that head of e-commerce head of marketing, who’s trying to work out what, where they should be focusing in 2026.

20:31.104 –> 20:35.209
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there’s a couple of key things we should cover off.

20:35.710 –> 20:42.377
[SPEAKER_02]: So relatively quick answers to these, I think, but if they’re really complicated ones, feel to feel free to go long.

20:43.819 –> 20:45.561
[SPEAKER_02]: Team wise,

20:45.541 –> 20:50.129
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we need to separate, you know, create a new team for Geo?

20:50.249 –> 20:52.172
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we do it with the existing SEO team?

20:52.193 –> 20:53.395
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it about refocusing?

20:53.435 –> 20:55.618
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it about paying attention to some new services?

20:55.659 –> 21:00.006
[SPEAKER_02]: What should the team, any team changes we should be doing to do with this?

21:00.593 –> 21:06.546
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn’t create my, my recommendation, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t create a separate team full for geo.

21:06.826 –> 21:15.565
[SPEAKER_00]: I will have the team looking at and getting educated in the core principles, optimization, that kind of stuff, I wouldn’t create a new team.

21:15.899 –> 21:27.803
[SPEAKER_00]: I will create a technical team that is looking at LLMs for different ways, how we can improve efficiency, how we can build tiny tools and gems and all of those kind of things.

21:28.565 –> 21:34.397
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s where I will create a separate team, but for GL, I will let the SEO team.

21:34.715 –> 21:36.697
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, grow that album.

21:36.717 –> 21:37.077
[SPEAKER_02]: Got you.

21:37.298 –> 21:46.447
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mentioned, you know, that with traffic wise, the reports we’re seeing so far, because obviously, e-commerce brands we want traffic, it’s about driving those sales.

21:47.448 –> 22:00.081
[SPEAKER_02]: It’s the amount of traffic that’s coming from AI in its various forms is still pretty low in the grand scheme of things compared to the volume of

22:00.061 –> 22:06.227
[SPEAKER_02]: change, would you be making how much more budget would you be putting in place to do all of this?

22:06.427 –> 22:11.311
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if it was equal to SEO right now, it would be like, whoa, double the budget.

22:11.572 –> 22:12.853
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to double down on this.

22:12.973 –> 22:14.955
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, you know, this is our big one for 2026.

22:15.075 –> 22:17.317
[SPEAKER_02]: And it’s getting a lot of noise.

22:17.357 –> 22:19.319
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think people are thinking they need to do loads about it.

22:19.339 –> 22:28.127
[SPEAKER_02]: But how, how big a focus shift is this causing in terms of actually looking at the amount of traffic it’s driving to websites at the moment?

22:28.107 –> 22:30.072
[SPEAKER_00]: That’s an interesting question.

22:30.092 –> 22:36.207
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean you have to keep on top of trends and you have to be where large retailers struggle.

22:36.287 –> 22:37.530
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s been an early adaptor.

22:38.152 –> 22:43.264
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say for Re-commerce brands, what’s it imagine now is we can see that all of these, um,

22:43.565 –> 23:04.999
[SPEAKER_00]: large language models, all of them are looking at how they can monetize this thing and Google recently launched in the US, they launched their agentic AI4 holiday shopping and what they’ve done is that they’ve they’ve used their Google feeds in much in center and because that’s the biggest place they like it’s quick and easy they know

23:04.979 –> 23:08.082
[SPEAKER_00]: the data, the feeds are already said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

23:08.102 –> 23:12.866
[SPEAKER_00]: But that will be something I would say that, you know, you need to start discussing with your engineering team.

23:13.266 –> 23:15.228
[SPEAKER_00]: So that’s more like a technical solution.

23:15.268 –> 23:24.417
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to start preparing for a Gentic AI because, you know, the free models can’t work for very long, data is so expensive and they have to monetize this.

23:24.477 –> 23:30.962
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s where with the role of a Gentic AI, you know, I knew, um, chat Jupiter was talking about a payment model.

23:31.083 –> 23:34.986
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that’s something that you meet your engineers need to be focused

23:34.966 –> 23:55.050
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we build, you know, text only HTML one that they can quickly crawl and index all do we expose our APIs these are not these are more like these are very security Conscious decisions that you know need the deaf team that knows and engineers and know what they’re doing with API calls and all of that so that’s

23:55.030 –> 24:01.002
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, that’s a key place to focus, you know, a lot of extra budget on doing those research.

24:01.082 –> 24:09.359
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, if that world, you know, when that world comes not if you’re prepared, you’re ready, you have a solution for people to use a Gentic AI on your side.

24:09.379 –> 24:14.389
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I was looking at one of the demos of a Gentic AI and, um,

24:14.369 –> 24:19.156
[SPEAKER_00]: The AI was actually access in the side like a human being, well, I don’t know what I was expecting.

24:19.176 –> 24:22.522
[SPEAKER_00]: I was expecting it to be fast and quick, but no, it was a quick thing.

24:22.542 –> 24:25.326
[SPEAKER_00]: All the links he was getting stuck like a human being will.

24:25.346 –> 24:31.956
[SPEAKER_00]: So are the USR team can also focus on accessibility, you know, crawling the side like, you know.

24:31.936 –> 24:39.488
[SPEAKER_00]: and someone’s accessibility needs will be used in screen readers making sure that they can access all the links or the jumps in all of those things.

24:39.568 –> 24:45.298
[SPEAKER_00]: But give your SEO to I’m sure the most SEO teams are underfunded even for normal SEO.

24:45.378 –> 24:50.046
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know, renew that focus and give them the budget to do normal SEO well.

24:50.526 –> 24:51.548
[SPEAKER_00]: And then

24:51.528 –> 25:04.862
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, invest in AI for efficiency, how can we use AI to automate a lot of tasks, make things efficient for the team, and then speak to your engineers about the development work in exposing to its agenda key.

25:05.467 –> 25:12.941
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of kind of prep work and foundation laying and content activity across the technical and the trust stuff this year.

25:13.502 –> 25:24.724
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we will all keep an eye on what’s happening with those traffic levels as we go through the year, which brings us on to the other key question I want to ask, which is metrics and monitoring.

25:24.704 –> 25:32.907
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there, you know, we all know what we should be tracking an SEO in geo, are there key key stats people are tracking right now to see if it’s working or not?

25:32.927 –> 25:35.695
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I’m guessing ranking reports throughout the window.

25:37.700 –> 25:39.726
[SPEAKER_02]: But what are you looking at?

25:39.706 –> 25:41.670
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m so undecided about on this.

25:41.750 –> 25:42.312
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know.

25:42.372 –> 25:48.285
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I thought I had swung to one way and then I read a bunch of things and I’m swung to another way.

25:48.305 –> 25:55.420
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, you know, we all have key stakeholders that we need to report to without.

25:55.400 –> 26:00.826
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ll probably act in loads of questions about, you know, visibility and all of that.

26:00.846 –> 26:03.028
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s a lot of prom tracking tools.

26:03.309 –> 26:07.673
[SPEAKER_00]: I’ve, you know, my team and I, we’ve, you know, tested, I’ve tested some of them.

26:07.693 –> 26:09.355
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like profound.

26:09.375 –> 26:10.477
[SPEAKER_00]: I like Pekey, I.

26:10.877 –> 26:15.422
[SPEAKER_00]: However, there is some diffusion in the industry about prom tracking.

26:15.542 –> 26:20.968
[SPEAKER_00]: And it’s to say, it’s the similar things with round tracking, since there’s a lot of personalization on AI.

26:20.948 –> 26:28.236
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the queries are very, very long-tailed, you know, that how many times is someone going to type that again.

26:28.716 –> 26:40.329
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, any AI model, the more you search it blends, what you want, and so it increasingly narrows this so much potential for buyers, but that’s another ethics topic to create for another day.

26:40.349 –> 26:44.053
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s increasingly narrows, so with all of those things,

26:44.033 –> 27:13.602
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there is some, you know, there is some division around from tracking, so, and but people, you know, some people in the street believe that you should focus more on topic, you know, topic tracking, not not tracking per se, but that cluster understanding where you sit in the topic cluster, how much visibility you have in topic clusters.

27:13.582 –> 27:26.780
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s a correlation and it’s wishy-washy and that’s where, you know, I see a good reputation for not just being trackable or being a dark heart or something like you, you want to metric that people can easily understand.

27:26.800 –> 27:31.046
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say if you can do both, if you have the money to do both, do both.

27:31.687 –> 27:42.542
[SPEAKER_00]: If you probably have one to do one, then topic clusters will be where the market’s currently leaning,

27:42.978 –> 27:48.187
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, indeed, it sounds like an undefined space at the moment.

27:48.267 –> 27:49.609
[SPEAKER_02]: So we’ll keep an eye out on that one.

27:49.629 –> 28:00.767
[SPEAKER_02]: And then a big question before we head towards the top tips, which is if more answers are being surfaced in AI, of one sort or another,

28:00.747 –> 28:07.556
[SPEAKER_02]: Should we be expecting site traffic to drop, but conversion rate to increase?

28:08.077 –> 28:10.360
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, your example of the cake recipe.

28:10.940 –> 28:16.427
[SPEAKER_02]: You’ve not gone to the original originator of that recipe or the three originated of that recipes.

28:17.008 –> 28:20.933
[SPEAKER_02]: Websites, you’ve got the answer there and then, but you weren’t going to buy anything anyway.

28:21.454 –> 28:24.578
[SPEAKER_02]: So for an e-commerce brand, potentially that’s a good thing.

28:24.558 –> 28:28.965
[SPEAKER_02]: But should we expect to see over time a lowering of traffic volume?

28:29.626 –> 28:34.873
[SPEAKER_02]: But potentially also an increase in conversion rate, she says.

28:35.615 –> 28:39.741
[SPEAKER_00]: Before I answer that question, I just also want to mention another tool story.

28:39.841 –> 28:45.189
[SPEAKER_00]: I did mention the tool for pond cracking and I did mention the one foot and topic clusters, which is YK.

28:45.650 –> 28:48.314
[SPEAKER_00]: So check out those tools if you’re comparison.

28:48.694 –> 28:49.896
[SPEAKER_00]: If you’re comparing, sorry.

28:50.217 –> 28:52.540
[SPEAKER_00]: Now back to the question you asked.

28:52.520 –> 28:58.027
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean we will see we we have seen already massive massive drop in clicks.

28:58.588 –> 29:20.957
[SPEAKER_00]: We’ve seen an increase in impressions which is like what I typically what I’ve done which is I’ve looked at the thing I’ve gone away I haven’t clicked on anything we’ve seen that across the board and that would just that would just continue to grow you know the more AI search grows the more we’ll see you know the ex-continent of trend downwards and I think in terms of e-commerce you have to

29:21.072 –> 29:28.264
[SPEAKER_00]: that’s always a win and that’s where it becomes even more important to focus on the less fluffy stuff if it’s not important to your brand.

29:28.284 –> 29:38.982
[SPEAKER_00]: If it’s not educating your customers, if it’s not influencing them to make a buying decision, if it’s not, you know, I mean, but we will still sense that C adverts in LLM’s anyway.

29:39.062 –> 29:40.144
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

29:40.124 –> 29:52.079
[SPEAKER_00]: There is that and, you know, increasingly people will be asking questions or if people are not clicking on this links, how do we make, you know, brands more prominent in the organic space of this LLM.

29:52.099 –> 30:06.317
[SPEAKER_00]: So I won’t be surprised if they start to do something like Google, did with Fabicons and logos and stuff to say, or you can optimize for us because we drive brand awareness in some kind of way, you know, say, but with a gigantic AI,

30:06.297 –> 30:16.408
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, that I don’t know how that will be measured, but if, you know, the agent is calling your side, making a decision on vinyl and you’ll be have, then surely that’s, that’s a click.

30:16.428 –> 30:25.218
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it’ll be interesting to see when they fully roll out the commerce aspect of it, but yes, if you, you know, it’s a win for you, isn’t it?

30:25.238 –> 30:29.082
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s a win for you, if only a commerce, if people have to turn to buy.

30:29.062 –> 30:38.933
[SPEAKER_00]: The sites that would really struggle are all of, you know, as we already see our feelings, sites are struggling, information and insights where your data can quickly be augmented and there’s no action to take.

30:39.634 –> 30:44.279
[SPEAKER_00]: Those, I mean, recipe sites are really, really struggling and over and part of the problem.

30:44.319 –> 30:51.607
[SPEAKER_01]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

30:51.767 –> 30:53.449
[SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

30:59.588 –> 31:01.891
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s time for the top tips round.

31:04.534 –> 31:09.780
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me an all listeners some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

31:09.860 –> 31:11.382
[SPEAKER_02]: Merit are you ready for the top tips?

31:11.682 –> 31:11.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

31:12.704 –> 31:13.925
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the book top tip.

31:13.945 –> 31:18.671
[SPEAKER_02]: If everyone is listening to this podcast, I agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make the business better.

31:18.731 –> 31:20.533
[SPEAKER_02]: Which book would you recommend?

31:20.699 –> 31:35.867
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is a, I don’t know if this is a business book, but say, but this is my favorite book when I became like a senior leader, because I left around and I saw like the so many people who are coctorate and I was like, oh, am I going to make it in this environment?

31:35.887 –> 31:38.151
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a space for people like me?

31:38.131 –> 31:52.312
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I read Adam Grants, give and take and I really love it because it proves that you don’t have to be quadrote, generosity is actually a competitive advantage and that’s, you know, that’s, that’s why I love that book if you, yeah.

31:52.332 –> 31:57.760
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you’re like nearing you think, do I need to be, you know, quadrote or can I?

31:58.634 –> 32:01.838
[SPEAKER_02]: that definitely counts as a great book recommendation.

32:01.858 –> 32:05.523
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can see it on one of my bookshelves, very close by me.

32:05.584 –> 32:13.695
[SPEAKER_02]: So I will second that recommendation, traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either prize above all others, or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

32:14.676 –> 32:18.241
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think everything’s being talked to that.

32:18.261 –> 32:23.608
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know if anything doesn’t really get the press.

32:23.628 –> 32:24.690
[SPEAKER_00]: That it deserves.

32:24.710 –> 32:27.173
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wouldn’t say there is, say,

32:27.153 –> 32:39.068
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, back to basics of brand and community building, that being a helpful, a help for business above trying to sell is making a massive, massive resurgence.

32:39.129 –> 32:42.393
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say, you know, try and build a community future.

32:42.453 –> 32:47.439
[SPEAKER_00]: Proveal your brand against all of these trends by making people come to you.

32:47.499 –> 32:54.088
[SPEAKER_00]: So if there is a way you can build a community and engage community that you’re helping do that.

32:54.777 –> 33:01.693
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that one, and yeah, it’s such a hard thing to do, but definitely super, a super power for the coming years.

33:02.134 –> 33:12.499
[SPEAKER_02]: A tall top tip, then maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone up or just a way of working, is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day.

33:12.952 –> 33:19.838
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I would poke and I don’t know loads of people use chat to PT instead and I don’t really for many of what but ecosystem is.

33:19.899 –> 33:35.613
[SPEAKER_00]: But within Gem Nye there is a great ecosystem where you can act like your emails, your calendar, you know, YouTube, like anything in the Google ecosystem and be like, at this can you give me a summary, can you summarize my emails the other day I did a fun thing well.

33:35.633 –> 33:42.840
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s like summarized my personal emails tell me how many emails are from school, how

33:42.820 –> 33:46.486
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I need to ignore, and do I need to do anything with this, who needs us there?

33:46.766 –> 33:52.135
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, add this to my calendar, so that’s really good for being like a personal assistant.

33:53.016 –> 33:53.377
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

33:53.397 –> 33:55.360
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, people don’t talk about Gemini enough.

33:55.740 –> 33:57.864
[SPEAKER_02]: I don’t believe as a Google fan.

33:58.925 –> 33:59.627
[SPEAKER_02]: So, love that one.

34:00.127 –> 34:05.476
[SPEAKER_02]: Carbon top tip, finally, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

34:06.578 –> 34:09.402
[SPEAKER_00]: I switch everything off from the sucker.

34:09.382 –> 34:14.226
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that’s probably not, I mean there must be regulations and things like you can’t switch off.

34:14.246 –> 34:19.271
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think once people shot something down and it’s not running, they just never switch it off from the socket.

34:19.291 –> 34:22.694
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m like, no switch it off because that’s still electricity.

34:23.074 –> 34:26.877
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the light on the microwave, the say zero zero is consuming electricity.

34:26.917 –> 34:29.279
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s not a thing that needs regulation.

34:29.299 –> 34:30.801
[SPEAKER_00]: You can just switch that off.

34:30.921 –> 34:39.388
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there needs to be a habit of anything that is not regulatory equipment being switched off from the socket.

34:39.368 –> 34:48.566
[SPEAKER_02]: I totally get where you’re coming from with this one, and for, you know, computer health, to have a well-performing computer, you need to turn it off every now and then, people.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Leave it all the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when we were working in New York, it’s like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: just switch up the light and log the office, but everyone’s going to be still plugged, like you can see the light and the money to like, this is like consuming a necessary electricity overnight.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love I love that tip.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So easy for like you say no regulation, nothing required just easy to do it, but as you said, make sure it’s something you’re allowed to turn on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You’re definitely allowed to turn on.

35:19.970 –> 35:26.640
[SPEAKER_02]: Mirra, before we say goodbye, how can the listeners get in contact if they want to get in contact with you?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, I’m on LinkedIn this day, that’s where I hang out on LinkedIn so you can find me there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have a website I offer mentoring, one to one mentoring for new managers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I love, you know, I love being impactful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have a level four counselling certificate from the British Association of counselling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have, I have some experience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I do love working with new managers, building confidence and things like that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, look, everyone, you can find out and get in contact with Mary, if I had linked in.

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[SPEAKER_02]: If you interested in any of that, I’ll go question about what we’ve been chatting about.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Mary, thank you so much being on the show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I hope we have reloaded the blood pressure of many senior e-commerce team members when it comes to the world of geo with this episode.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I’m sure we have.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much for being up for doing it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you for having me, your hand and lovely time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Loads of clarity that from Mira on how to handle the GO AI search thing in the coming year and it’s

36:33.545 –> 36:46.159
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess it is about setting those foundations so making sure you’ve got all your technical SEO in place and then starting the process of building those trust citations, consolidating the brand view across everything.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But we say building the foundations, but you never know when the traffic volumes are going to go up and what the AI companies are going to do next.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we’ve recorded this in December and you never know, it might be a half of date by the time you guys hear it in January, because things are evolving so fast.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The good thing I think is that so much of this is just building on good SEO because as Mirror said, the principles remain the same.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s trying to give someone the right answer.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that’s all the AI is trying to do.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It’s all that Google’s been trying to do for the last few decades.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it may kind of make sense that it fits with the whole SEO story as well.

37:21.497 –> 37:27.322
[SPEAKER_02]: And some great recommendations for tools to test out and tracking to test out and various other bits and pieces in there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So huge thanks to Mirror for being up for doing this for us.

37:30.025 –> 37:37.917
[SPEAKER_02]: you can get your hands on the notes from this episode, including those top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.

37:37.937 –> 37:40.540
[SPEAKER_02]: You can use our direct episode short link to get there as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Let’s ECMP.info forward slash the number of this episode.

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[SPEAKER_02]: When you get to the website, please do add yourself to our email news letter because we’ve got some really exciting stuff going on on there at the moment.

37:51.777 –> 37:58.645
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you liked this episode, then you can catch up with our other what would you do episodes.

37:59.426 –> 38:12.963
[SPEAKER_02]: You can find them all at ECMP.info-4s-w-w-y-d. And we are, I think this is our fourth, and we’ve been getting some really cool senior brand-side people on to tackle big questions for you.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, do you go and have a listen to the others because they will really help you with your planning for 2026?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including becoming more sustainable.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

38:38.146 –> 38:38.908
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you have a great week.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Don’t forget to keep optimizing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.