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Everybody is making more
money than they’ve ever
thought they could make off of

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one piece of content in their
life, right? They’re like,

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I posted a five second video and retired,
and everybody’s like, congratulations.

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Well, hello and welcome to another edition
of the E-Commerce Evolution podcast.

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I’m your host, Brett
Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce,

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and today we have a returning guest.
It’s going to be an amazing episode.

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I have Miss Liz Saunders back again

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with a new title and a lot of new
developments that I can’t wait to unpack,

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but she is now the president of
the creative division at Wayward.

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Talk about what that means and why
she’s doing that. But with that, Liz,

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welcome to the show and how’s it going?

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Thanks, Brett. It’s going so good.
I mean, it’s been, I guess a little,

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almost two years since we chatted,

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so this is a really fun
opportunity to reconnect.

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It’s so crazy when I first thought, man,
I should have Liz back on. I thought,

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well, it’s been just a few months.
And then I looked and yeah,

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it’s been almost two years, which that’s
just the way life and e-comm goes, man.

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It just goes by so stinking fast.

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It feels like yesterday and
seven years ago simultaneously.

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Right? 100%. That is
100% true. Yeah. Yeah.

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So you’ve had a really big year, Liz.

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We were both at Solar
Summit in Fort Lauderdale.

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You were the closing keynote of
that event, which is a major honor,

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so kudos to you for that. You
sold your company Fluencer Fruit,

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you sold to Wayward, which is where you
are now, so I can’t wait to unpack that.

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And now you get to be on this show twice
in a couple of years, so it is a big,

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big year for you, so congratulations.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Yeah. Yeah. Which by the way, what was
that, given the closing keynote, was that

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kind of a bucket list thing?

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Was it something you wanted to do or
something you’re really nervous about?

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Kind of walk us through that.

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Kind of all of those things,
honestly. Well, not Bucket List,

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that’s the one that I’ll say,
and this was part of my keynote,

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was when I started with
Seller Summit. I mean,

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it’s was my entryway into
e-comm, and when I started,

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I was running registration and
was just a new Amazon seller,

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and my whole life was kind of in flux.

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And so never did I ever think, oh, I
would like to be closing keynote, right?

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Go from run of the admission table years
and years ago to now doing the closing

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Genome.

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Checking Bunch badge. And now
it’s like, and here you’re as the,

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so I will say it definitely wasn’t
something that I initially was like,

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that’s what I want to do. And also
when we got closer, it was like,

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that would be really cool.

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And in talking to Tony,

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because they had a scheduling change
with the original closing keynote,

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and she was like, you’ve been traveling.
Who do you see? And I kind of was like,

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I’m going to pitch myself. I was like,

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I’m a rags Riches seller Summit
full circle moment. Heck.

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And she was like, I like
it. So they took it and.

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Amazing.

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It was nerve wracking,
but it was really fun.

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If you’re ever going to do
something that big, being in your,

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I would call it our home audience,
those are my people, is like.

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Yeah, everybody’s rooting for you.
Everybody was cheering for you.

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It was a perfect.

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Environment, so nerve wracking,
but also if you fall on your face,

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they’re still going to love you.
So it’s a little ambivalence.

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Takes some pressure off for
sure. So yeah, it was great.

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And your background is Jungle
Scout. You’re a successful seller.

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You’ve been doing Seller Summit
now, doing some really cool things.

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And then a few years ago you had
this idea, let’s build a platform.

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You called it Fluencer Fruit,
that’s the company you just exited,

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which I want to hear all about the exit
because I just know so many people we’re

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kind of in the m and a game
we’re looking to acquire.

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I know a lot of people
that are looking for exits,

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and so can’t wait to unpack that a
little bit. But for those who don’t know,

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what is flu fruit and then how
does that fit into the wayward

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ecosystem?

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Absolutely.

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So Fluencer Fruit is an extension
that helps content creators on or in

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the Amazon Influencer program
helps them do product research,

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and it helps them manage
their video library.

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So that’s the fastest way to explain it.

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It’s a Chrome extension that just helps
visualize all of the things that you

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care about for onsite content
in an easy to digest fashion.

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Nice. And so what are
you seeing right now,

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and we’ll talk about how
this fits in with Wayward,

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but what are you seeing right
now with Amazon Influencer?

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I know this has been an initiative
with Amazon for a while.

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Amazon’s always trying to
solve the problem of discovery.

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How do we get customers
to discover new products?

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They still mostly rely on search. They’re
looking for things to go beyond that.

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But what have you been seeing
with Amazon Influencer as of late?

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Yeah, so it’s interesting because I
think there’s two pieces to that coin,

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which is where it’s like they’re
trying to solve for discoverability,

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and they’re also trying to
solve for authentic feedback.

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So we have seen a lot of
change for written reviews,

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and I use it in quotes because are
they really reviews from customers?

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Amazon’s been fighting that.

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Battle. Is it a real person?
Is it someone overseas?

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Is.

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It just fake? It’s a
bot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It’s like a competitor being
paid to leave one star reviews.

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So they’ve been trying to simultaneously
solve both of these things.

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And so where I see the onsite content
being the biggest win for them

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is its authentic user
feedback for a product.

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And so in a way, it does battle
some of those paid for bad good,

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whatever reviews with really
authentic conversations in video.

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The other thing is from.

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A, so it’s not just a discovery thing,

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it’s also like a conversion
piece as well, right? Yes.

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And lending real feedback for a
specific product that should help with

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conversions or.

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Purchases.

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So the onsite piece up to this point
has been almost 100% on the conversion

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side.

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It’s like you’re paying all these other
places to drive traffic to the listing.

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This is the one thing that they let you
do that helps with your conversion rate.

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But something interesting that they’re
playing with in way of discoverability is

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surfacing these videos in search results.

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So every once in a while, and
they’re still, I think, testing,

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we don’t see this consistently,

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but every once in a while
you’ll be searching and
instead of a main Amazon image

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product picture,

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you’ll see a video that’s
obviously not a brand videoing.

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So I do think that they’re
trying to pull that in.

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So there’s no way at the moment
for a brand to influence that.

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But if you have those videos,

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perhaps Amazon’s going to grab that and
display that on a search results page?

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Yeah, correct.

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I call those miscellaneous placements
because we don’t have any insight into

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them. Amazon never tells
us when they’re doing them,

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but we see them and they’ll just
plug our content into all of these

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placements, just I think to
test conversion and see how
much they help or don’t.

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Got it. We do a lot on the
Amazon advertising side,

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huge fan of the ads ecosystem,
love sponsor brand video.

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You be called video and search.
What are you seeing, if anything,

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from your perspective on brands using
some of this influencer content,

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these influencer videos, and running
those ads, sponsor brand ads?

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So this is really interesting
that you asked about this.

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I do office hours with my
subscribers every Thursday,

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and we were talking about this
morning. So out of curiosity,

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are you seeing the ability to put
money on influencer content through

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the ads console?

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Well, I don’t run the campaigns
myself, so I’d have to ask my team.

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I’ve not heard anyone mention that yet.

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But is that maybe in a beta right now?

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So 18 months ago, they sent
us a bunch of questions,

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would you rather this for three months
to license your content to a brand or

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this for six months? And
they did this whole whatever.

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And now in the backend, on the
creator side of Creator Connections,

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we have a licensing tab, but it’s blank.

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So.

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Where I think they’re going is
to allow brands to kind of let

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run traffic to creator
content through the actual

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Amazon ads platform. So I was wondering
if you guys were seeing it in beta yet.

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And then pay a licensing fee potentially
to the creator is the way that might

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work?

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That’s what we’re guessing.

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Yeah.

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So either they would pay a licensing
fee or the way it works now is if I’m a

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creator, an influencer,
I post content about,

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let’s call it a coffee product on Amazon.

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If someone views my
video and then purchases,

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I get some kind of a commission
for that. Is that correct?

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Correct. Yep.

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Yeah. And what does that commission
look like? Are there ranges?

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Does it depend on me as an
influencer? How does that look?

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There are influencers who
have their own rate cards,

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but those are the super producers.

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So your average creator,

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it gets between one and 4%
for those onsite commissions,

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and it’s tagged by category.

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So however you as the
seller have decision trade.

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If your nursery bookshelf
goes in furniture or in

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kids, those are two different
commissions. For the onsite creator,

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it’s either 4% of furniture or two
and a quarter percent for baby stuff.

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Interesting. I wonder why,

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any insight into why those commissions
are different for different categories

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for influencers?

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I have no idea. I mean, I’m
assuming that Amazon has discovered.

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Margin profile for those categories,
maybe something like that.

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I kind assume that they tag it based
on the difficulty to sell and drive

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traffic. So baby stuff
sells all day every day.

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They don’t need to incentivize people.

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To that’s.

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Sell that stuff. Whereas furniture, how
many people are selling bookshelves?

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Right?

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That’s my guess.

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Yeah, makes sense. So what
have you seen change then?

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So you started Influencer Fruit, what
is it, a little over two years ago?

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Is that right? And so what have you
seen shift, what have you seen improve?

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What have you seen change in terms
of the Amazon influencer program?

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Yeah, I think it’s in the influencer
program as well as just in product focused

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content in general.

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Right now we’re kind of seeing this
moment of what I call infrastructure

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stabilization. So we’ve
been in Blue Ocean,

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everybody is making more
money than they’ve ever
thought they could make off of

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one piece of content in their
life, right? They’re like,

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I posted a five second video and retired.
And everybody’s like, congratulations.

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So now we’re in between TikTok shop
affiliate and Amazon Influencer.

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We’re seeing a little bit
of, it’s not a slowdown,

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but they’re pulling back to create the
infrastructure that will build the long

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term of the programs.
And so we’re seeing people having to

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adapt to how they’re making money.
So what we’re seeing working is,

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I call it commission stacking, where
from the same piece of content,

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I want to optimize how many
ways I can make money off of it.

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Will the brand pay me for it?
Will they send me a product?

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Do they have additional commissions
available through Creator connections or

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Wayward? What are their sales?

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Just trying to think through as opposed
to just picking a product and creating

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content for it, thinking
through the big picture.

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Are they on TikTok and Amazon? Can I
create cross-platform content for them?

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Yeah. So what about from the brand
side? So if I’m a seller on Amazon,

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how should I be thinking
about Amazon influencers?

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Should I be going out pursuing recruiting
influencers? What should I be doing?

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So if you’re on the brand side,

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the first thing you want to do is make
sure your brand registered and that you

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have uploaded at least one product
video or brand video to every listing,

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because that unlocks that
upper video carousel placement,

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which is the number one converting thing,

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thinking about the fact that
video converts better than text,

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and UGC converts better than brand videos.

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Totally.

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So getting that above the fold close to
the buying decision is always positive.

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00:12:18,550 –> 00:12:21,580
The next piece that just
opens the real estate,

219
00:12:22,450 –> 00:12:26,680
the next piece is actively
working with Amazon influencers

220
00:12:28,180 –> 00:12:32,710
is really a cool opportunity
where TOS compliant and we’re FTC

221
00:12:32,710 –> 00:12:36,760
compliant and we’re not a black box. So
it’s not like the Vine Review program,

222
00:12:36,760 –> 00:12:38,620
which I understand
holds a necessary place,

223
00:12:38,620 –> 00:12:40,960
but you can’t talk to Vine
reviewers. You can talk to us.

224
00:12:41,320 –> 00:12:42,550
So if you have something,

225
00:12:43,450 –> 00:12:47,560
people keep returning this coffee product
because they don’t understand that you

226
00:12:47,560 –> 00:12:52,180
have to clean the filter this many
times a week or the coffee tastes bad.

227
00:12:52,450 –> 00:12:55,420
It’s like, well, as a content creator,
I can go in and be like, you guys,

228
00:12:55,420 –> 00:12:59,200
number one mistake that I’ve made with
this is I didn’t clean the filter and it

229
00:12:59,200 –> 00:13:01,660
hits different when I say
it than when the brand does.

230
00:13:01,660 –> 00:13:04,300
It. It does, it does. But then
you can also say, Hey, it was.

231
00:13:04,840 –> 00:13:05,110
Really.

232
00:13:05,110 –> 00:13:08,140
Easy to clean, and man, now I get
the perfect cup of coffee every.

233
00:13:08,350 –> 00:13:10,430
Time, user error type of thing, error.
That’s on me. You know what I mean?

234
00:13:12,500 –> 00:13:15,220
Much more acceptable coming from
a user where you’re like, oh,

235
00:13:15,220 –> 00:13:19,090
it’s normal to do this rather than
the brand is making me do extra work.

236
00:13:19,300 –> 00:13:22,750
Exactly. Totally makes sense. Yeah,

237
00:13:22,750 –> 00:13:24,940
and we’ve leaned into this
for some of our brands.

238
00:13:24,940 –> 00:13:29,080
It’s something that we can help with
where we go out and find influencers.

239
00:13:30,010 –> 00:13:32,110
And so I know for a
particular betting client,

240
00:13:32,110 –> 00:13:36,490
it’s been really effective
for ’em. Good. But yeah.

241
00:13:37,300 –> 00:13:41,890
Any other things you’ve seen
change or shift from a brand’s

242
00:13:41,890 –> 00:13:46,420
perspective, or actually, I may have
cut you off. You said open up videos,

243
00:13:46,810 –> 00:13:50,890
open up the carousel, brand registered,
get brand, open up that carousel.

244
00:13:50,890 –> 00:13:52,480
Then what else should brands do?

245
00:13:53,380 –> 00:13:58,300
Well, I think the brands finding a
way all watching everybody trying.

246
00:13:58,330 –> 00:14:01,480
Everybody’s always trying to be more
efficient with their spend and how they

247
00:14:02,050 –> 00:14:04,330
fixing their margins,
whether it’s tariffs,

248
00:14:04,330 –> 00:14:06,190
whether it’s changes in terms of service,

249
00:14:06,340 –> 00:14:08,890
whatever the current
challenge is around margins.

250
00:14:09,760 –> 00:14:14,560
So some of the things that we’re seeing
brands do in way of new opportunities,

251
00:14:14,560 –> 00:14:18,670
creative problem solving around this
is working with creators directly.

252
00:14:19,150 –> 00:14:23,230
So you have more control
over those conversations.

253
00:14:23,290 –> 00:14:28,240
And sometimes that means pulling
the actual transactions so that

254
00:14:28,240 –> 00:14:29,470
they’re outside of Amazon,

255
00:14:29,470 –> 00:14:33,640
meaning I’m paying you a flat fee
for this as opposed to whatever,

256
00:14:33,640 –> 00:14:35,440
but then I can use your content or.

257
00:14:35,890 –> 00:14:36,190
Working.

258
00:14:36,190 –> 00:14:41,110
With a company like Wayward where
you can use brand attribution

259
00:14:41,110 –> 00:14:46,060
links to get the referral bonus to
offset the commissions you’re paying to

260
00:14:46,060 –> 00:14:47,680
the creators. It’s like a win-win win.

261
00:14:47,680 –> 00:14:48,513
So explain that a little bit.

262
00:14:48,790 –> 00:14:51,200
I know hardcore Amazon sellers know
exactly what you’re talking about,

263
00:14:51,200 –> 00:14:52,520
but for those that are less familiar.

264
00:14:52,730 –> 00:14:53,150
For sure.

265
00:14:53,150 –> 00:14:54,320
What is that referral bonus?

266
00:14:54,410 –> 00:14:54,950
Absolutely.

267
00:14:54,950 –> 00:14:59,720
So the brand attribution link is basically
a brand’s version of an affiliate

268
00:14:59,720 –> 00:15:03,710
link. Amazon wants you to drive
traffic when you drive traffic.

269
00:15:03,710 –> 00:15:07,310
They’ve done something where they’ll
give you a brand referral bonus.

270
00:15:07,880 –> 00:15:09,140
They’re not cutting you a check,

271
00:15:09,140 –> 00:15:12,680
but they’re cutting back on the amount
you’re paying them for the referral fee,

272
00:15:13,550 –> 00:15:17,630
and it’s usually around 10%. That’s
not standard or that’s not global,

273
00:15:17,630 –> 00:15:18,830
but that’s approximate.

274
00:15:19,730 –> 00:15:23,120
And so what happened in this
conversation was brands were like,

275
00:15:23,120 –> 00:15:26,000
if we drive traffic, we don’t want
to pay for you to drive traffic.

276
00:15:26,000 –> 00:15:29,780
And Amazon was like, you’re right.
Here’s how we’ll solve that.

277
00:15:30,470 –> 00:15:34,130
But then it was like this other
piece entered the chat and was like,

278
00:15:34,580 –> 00:15:39,410
brands would be happy
to pay creators almost a

279
00:15:39,410 –> 00:15:43,820
hundred percent of their margin
for that first sale to get a new

280
00:15:43,820 –> 00:15:44,653
customer.

281
00:15:44,870 –> 00:15:49,820
And so this allows people wayward
will take your brand attribution

282
00:15:49,820 –> 00:15:53,030
link, then what the creator is using,

283
00:15:53,030 –> 00:15:55,250
you are getting the brand referral bonus,

284
00:15:55,610 –> 00:15:59,510
and then you can pay the creator a higher
percentage than if they’re just going

285
00:15:59,510 –> 00:16:00,710
through Amazon affiliates.

286
00:16:01,010 –> 00:16:02,930
Because why not? That’s free
money you’re getting from Amazon.

287
00:16:02,930 –> 00:16:06,320
Why not pay that to a creator?
Give them more incentives,

288
00:16:06,410 –> 00:16:11,090
fuel your growth there
through influencers. So yeah,
it makes a ton of sense.

289
00:16:11,270 –> 00:16:15,140
Yeah, I mean, it’s such
a cool opportunity.

290
00:16:16,070 –> 00:16:19,250
It incentivizes. It’s a
literal, everyone wins, right?

291
00:16:20,600 –> 00:16:23,450
Yeah. Yeah. Super cool. Good.

292
00:16:23,870 –> 00:16:27,950
Have you seen more and more
brands adopting Amazon influencer?

293
00:16:27,950 –> 00:16:30,980
Is it still kind of slow to pick
up? How has that been going?

294
00:16:31,460 –> 00:16:35,180
It’s a lot of education conversations.

295
00:16:35,210 –> 00:16:36,710
It’s interesting because

296
00:16:38,570 –> 00:16:41,240
I think this is not uncommon,

297
00:16:41,450 –> 00:16:46,010
but Amazon will launch a program and then
it kind of takes on its own side life

298
00:16:46,010 –> 00:16:49,730
from what they initially intended
it to be, which is great, right?

299
00:16:49,730 –> 00:16:53,450
Because it is its own
living organism, right?

300
00:16:53,450 –> 00:16:54,283
Sure.

301
00:16:54,470 –> 00:16:56,660
Because of that, though, I think,

302
00:16:56,720 –> 00:16:59,060
and I don’t have anybody at
Amazon that’s told me this,

303
00:16:59,060 –> 00:17:03,440
but I think the way they initially
designed this program was to be a much

304
00:17:03,500 –> 00:17:07,400
tighter sister to the affiliate program.

305
00:17:07,400 –> 00:17:09,800
So affiliate being the
people driving the traffic,

306
00:17:09,800 –> 00:17:12,560
influencer being the people who
are helping convert the traffic.

307
00:17:13,430 –> 00:17:17,060
And I think they initially thought that
this was going to be like a one for one

308
00:17:17,150 –> 00:17:20,690
people. Were going to be doing
both, but it’s become a very,

309
00:17:20,690 –> 00:17:25,130
there are people that do both, but
it’s become a very separate skillset.

310
00:17:25,700 –> 00:17:29,060
The difference between if you’re on a
product listing and me helping you make

311
00:17:29,060 –> 00:17:32,630
that buying decision is much different
than me on my Instagram being like,

312
00:17:33,110 –> 00:17:35,900
these are my favorite
wrist wraps when I lift,

313
00:17:36,800 –> 00:17:38,450
you should go check out their stuff.

314
00:17:38,660 –> 00:17:41,030
It’s almost like a
different selling motion.

315
00:17:41,240 –> 00:17:43,520
Totally, totally. Yeah.

316
00:17:44,090 –> 00:17:47,960
You’re more demonstrating the product
on that product detail page and showing

317
00:17:48,290 –> 00:17:51,150
how it works. It’s a little
more education type of thing.

318
00:17:51,630 –> 00:17:54,180
Someone’s already in the store,
they’re already talking to you,

319
00:17:54,570 –> 00:17:56,910
where if someone’s on TikTok or elsewhere,

320
00:17:56,910 –> 00:17:59,940
you got to convince them to go to the
store to check it out. Exactly. So yeah,

321
00:18:00,360 –> 00:18:01,193
different feel.

322
00:18:01,440 –> 00:18:04,200
And so what you’re finding when Amazon
is finding is that’s often a different

323
00:18:04,200 –> 00:18:04,530
person.

324
00:18:04,530 –> 00:18:08,040
So the person running TikTok influencer
content is maybe different than the

325
00:18:08,040 –> 00:18:11,760
person who’s doing Amazon Influencer
or it’s maybe the same person,

326
00:18:11,760 –> 00:18:13,680
they’re just creating different
content for different places.

327
00:18:13,680 –> 00:18:17,610
Yeah, it’s a combination of those
two things. But yeah, it is.

328
00:18:17,610 –> 00:18:22,260
It’s like if I’m on TikTok, I’m trying
to get you moving and to click on a link.

329
00:18:23,220 –> 00:18:26,970
If I’m on an Amazon influencer or if I’m
on an Amazon product listing, I’m like,

330
00:18:27,360 –> 00:18:29,730
check out how I can
push up this shade tent.

331
00:18:30,060 –> 00:18:32,910
It just clicks right into place on my
TikTok. People don’t care about that.

332
00:18:32,910 –> 00:18:34,080
But on the product listing,

333
00:18:34,080 –> 00:18:37,710
if you’re five four and you don’t know
how you’re going to set up this tent by

334
00:18:37,710 –> 00:18:41,700
yourself, you want to see how I can
do it. And so it has more educational,

335
00:18:41,700 –> 00:18:44,400
more faq, more like feature based, then.

336
00:18:44,400 –> 00:18:49,200
It’s more feature rich where the
content to get someone to go to the

337
00:18:49,200 –> 00:18:52,020
store that’s got to be more benefit
oriented, more action oriented.

338
00:18:52,020 –> 00:18:53,040
You’re moving someone,

339
00:18:53,760 –> 00:18:57,780
and then on the page there’s
kind of overcoming objections,
answering questions,

340
00:18:57,900 –> 00:19:02,160
talking about features, helping them
decide between this product, your product,

341
00:19:02,160 –> 00:19:06,030
versus a competitive product.
So yeah, makes a ton of sense.

342
00:19:06,780 –> 00:19:10,080
How then are you seeing this pair? And
we’ve sort of just talked about it,

343
00:19:10,080 –> 00:19:13,050
but TikTok shops obviously it’s huge.

344
00:19:13,050 –> 00:19:16,350
We have some clients that have
exploded with TikTok shops.

345
00:19:16,350 –> 00:19:20,640
It’s also not for everybody. Amazon’s
got their own affiliate program.

346
00:19:20,700 –> 00:19:23,910
I’m really excited about
YouTube’s affiliate program.

347
00:19:23,910 –> 00:19:25,920
It’s basically their
answer to TikTok shops.

348
00:19:25,920 –> 00:19:27,840
We’re doing some early testing here.

349
00:19:28,290 –> 00:19:28,380
It’s.

350
00:19:28,380 –> 00:19:30,720
Been very favorable, but it’s early days.

351
00:19:31,620 –> 00:19:35,820
So how do you see these things
working together and how would you

352
00:19:36,270 –> 00:19:39,990
advise brands to consider
how they work together?

353
00:19:40,950 –> 00:19:41,850
It’s a good question.

354
00:19:41,850 –> 00:19:46,830
So I think one of the current struggles
that everybody in this product focused

355
00:19:46,890 –> 00:19:49,920
content seller space is struggling with is

356
00:19:51,510 –> 00:19:56,310
the interpreted need to be
everything to all people and to be on

357
00:19:56,310 –> 00:19:58,050
every single platform.

358
00:19:58,800 –> 00:20:03,270
And while I think there is a
space for yes, be on TikTok,

359
00:20:03,270 –> 00:20:06,030
be on Amazon, sell ’em,
Walmart, all those things,

360
00:20:07,020 –> 00:20:10,200
I do think there’s a little bit of,
depending on how big your team is,

361
00:20:10,200 –> 00:20:12,420
how early you are in your company phase,

362
00:20:13,350 –> 00:20:17,370
you can’t personally probably
simultaneously run all
of those sales channels.

363
00:20:18,030 –> 00:20:22,530
So I think making peace with, if you
took off on TikTok, double down, right?

364
00:20:22,540 –> 00:20:23,420
Yeah. If.

365
00:20:23,420 –> 00:20:25,860
You took off on Amazon, double down.

366
00:20:26,640 –> 00:20:26,910
In.

367
00:20:26,910 –> 00:20:30,180
Time, you can add all of those
from a content piece though,

368
00:20:30,870 –> 00:20:35,550
if you’re a brand who is selling on all
of those, when you’re vetting creators,

369
00:20:35,760 –> 00:20:40,440
check and see where they’re
posting specifically if
you’re on TikTok and Amazon

370
00:20:40,440 –> 00:20:42,660
and you find a creator on TikTok,

371
00:20:42,720 –> 00:20:45,330
because that’s the more
likely direction this goes.

372
00:20:46,140 –> 00:20:46,590
Ask.

373
00:20:46,590 –> 00:20:51,100
Them if they’re Amazon influencer and if
they would post an influencer video in

374
00:20:51,100 –> 00:20:54,580
addition to what they’re
doing on TikTok, because

375
00:20:56,320 –> 00:20:57,153
it’s much harder.

376
00:20:57,160 –> 00:21:02,020
You can reach out to influencers from
Amazon through their storefront to their

377
00:21:02,020 –> 00:21:06,160
socials and to their, but if you’re
interacting with them on TikTok,

378
00:21:06,160 –> 00:21:08,380
you’ve already got a little
bit of conversation going,

379
00:21:08,500 –> 00:21:10,720
that’s where I would the best direction.

380
00:21:11,800 –> 00:21:12,550
Yeah, totally makes sense.

381
00:21:12,550 –> 00:21:15,670
So start that conversation with someone
on TikTok and do an influencers working

382
00:21:15,670 –> 00:21:19,900
with you there. See if they’ll create
some content on Amazon as well.

383
00:21:19,900 –> 00:21:23,410
And that kind of goes back to the
earlier discussion where same person,

384
00:21:23,680 –> 00:21:25,460
different flavors of content.

385
00:21:26,150 –> 00:21:26,530
Based.

386
00:21:26,530 –> 00:21:30,010
On where someone is in the buying
journey. And it makes just a ton of sense.

387
00:21:30,130 –> 00:21:30,963
Yeah.

388
00:21:31,150 –> 00:21:33,760
So very, very cool. Well, awesome. Well,

389
00:21:34,600 –> 00:21:37,330
let’s kind of go back to what we
alluded to at the beginning of the show.

390
00:21:37,480 –> 00:21:42,430
So you built Fluencer Fruit,
amazing site, amazing product.

391
00:21:42,640 –> 00:21:44,170
Kudos to you. It really, really great.

392
00:21:44,470 –> 00:21:44,770
Thank you.

393
00:21:44,770 –> 00:21:48,880
Why did you decide to sell, and
actually when did you decide to sell?

394
00:21:48,880 –> 00:21:53,350
So did you build it in order to sell
it or did you build it just for fun and

395
00:21:53,350 –> 00:21:55,990
you’re like, wait a minute, there’s
something here. This is valuable.

396
00:21:56,500 –> 00:21:57,333
I’m going to sell it.

397
00:21:57,880 –> 00:22:02,350
So I built it to sell it. I went into it
knowing that I wouldn’t run it forever.

398
00:22:05,380 –> 00:22:08,620
I know that my skillset
falls between zero and two,

399
00:22:08,860 –> 00:22:13,390
right of the stage of the company.
I do really well with ambiguity,

400
00:22:13,510 –> 00:22:14,410
chaos,

401
00:22:14,740 –> 00:22:18,850
and pulling it all into one place with
enough of a structure to start handing

402
00:22:18,850 –> 00:22:22,120
things off to specialists. So over time,

403
00:22:22,120 –> 00:22:24,280
I’ve realized that that is my skillset.

404
00:22:24,280 –> 00:22:28,900
So I knew that I was probably not going
to be the person that took it past stage

405
00:22:28,900 –> 00:22:30,370
two or whatever that turns out to be.

406
00:22:30,970 –> 00:22:35,710
And I read Exit Preneur by our
mutual friend, Joe Val, as I was.

407
00:22:35,710 –> 00:22:38,620
Joe Val, shout out to Joe.
Great book. Great book.

408
00:22:39,730 –> 00:22:42,430
I mean, if you are even thinking
about Ever in the Future,

409
00:22:42,850 –> 00:22:47,800
I just devoured that book and I had
legitimately been waiting to read it until

410
00:22:47,800 –> 00:22:50,020
I knew I was getting ready.
I wanted it to be so fresh.

411
00:22:50,020 –> 00:22:51,130
I should have read it twice, but.

412
00:22:52,570 –> 00:22:55,390
Yeah. Yeah. Well, one thing
I’ve noticed there is,

413
00:22:55,510 –> 00:22:57,070
so we started going through
this journey and like I said,

414
00:22:57,070 –> 00:22:58,780
we’re looking at acquiring, we’re trying,

415
00:22:59,350 –> 00:23:01,930
we’re an agency right now trying to get
it across the finish line and looking at

416
00:23:01,930 –> 00:23:02,763
another deal as well.

417
00:23:03,730 –> 00:23:06,400
But one thing I noticed is once
we started thinking about m and a,

418
00:23:06,400 –> 00:23:10,240
and we’d even explored do we want to sell
to an investor? What do we want to do?

419
00:23:11,680 –> 00:23:13,330
If you go through the process,

420
00:23:13,330 –> 00:23:17,890
if you read Joe’s book and there are
some other great books, buy, then Build,

421
00:23:17,890 –> 00:23:22,870
buy Walker, and there’s several
others just going through the process,

422
00:23:23,110 –> 00:23:24,250
you’ll run your business better.

423
00:23:24,310 –> 00:23:29,050
Because if you start to look at your
business like an investor or a buyer looks

424
00:23:29,050 –> 00:23:33,520
at your business, you are just going to
run it better. And then you may decide,

425
00:23:33,910 –> 00:23:35,860
wow, I’m more profitable
running it this way.

426
00:23:35,860 –> 00:23:38,110
I’m just going to keep
the business. So anyway,

427
00:23:38,110 –> 00:23:41,020
I think even if you think you’re
not going to sell for a while,

428
00:23:41,020 –> 00:23:43,720
read those books and run your
business, you’re going sell it,

429
00:23:43,720 –> 00:23:45,650
it be a better business.

430
00:23:46,640 –> 00:23:50,600
I think the best thing that I
took out of the book was my books.

431
00:23:50,870 –> 00:23:52,880
I’m not a bookkeeper anyways.

432
00:23:52,880 –> 00:23:57,590
And so as I set up the
LLCs hired a bookkeeper

433
00:23:57,650 –> 00:23:59,150
because I just wanted,

434
00:24:00,200 –> 00:24:03,740
because when I was at
Jungle Scout Chief of Staff,

435
00:24:04,010 –> 00:24:08,480
I did a lot of coordinating around m
and a conversations and when we acquired

436
00:24:08,480 –> 00:24:09,800
Downstream and those sorts of things.

437
00:24:10,490 –> 00:24:15,380
And so I’ve seen the process
of when people’s books

438
00:24:15,380 –> 00:24:17,570
aren’t clean and what that
looks like. And I was like,

439
00:24:17,570 –> 00:24:22,430
so my number one thing was to make
sure that my books were always

440
00:24:23,840 –> 00:24:27,320
whatever. Anybody could come in
if they didn’t like the books,

441
00:24:27,320 –> 00:24:27,990
that was one thing. Yeah.

442
00:24:27,990 –> 00:24:31,160
Compliance super clean. Correct. Someone
looks at it, they trust it. Yeah.

443
00:24:31,160 –> 00:24:31,760
End of story.

444
00:24:31,760 –> 00:24:36,680
Exactly. So that was my favorite
thing, but I knew all along,

445
00:24:36,680 –> 00:24:39,560
so I read the book and
then I was building,

446
00:24:39,560 –> 00:24:43,040
I did think that I was going to run
the company for three to five years.

447
00:24:43,670 –> 00:24:43,940
I.

448
00:24:43,940 –> 00:24:46,850
Figured it would take me about
that long to be interesting.

449
00:24:48,620 –> 00:24:53,420
The risks that I took that I knew
were risks was my brand was and is

450
00:24:53,420 –> 00:24:56,570
still very attached to me as a person.

451
00:24:56,930 –> 00:24:59,780
And so when people talk about flu fruit,

452
00:24:59,780 –> 00:25:04,340
they talk about you should buy flu fruit
so that you get with it Liz’s office

453
00:25:04,340 –> 00:25:04,760
hours or.

454
00:25:04,760 –> 00:25:05,593
Those sorts of things.

455
00:25:06,230 –> 00:25:08,060
So I did know that that was a little bit,

456
00:25:08,060 –> 00:25:12,530
but I also assumed because I
very specifically picked a pretty

457
00:25:12,530 –> 00:25:17,270
niche community that I was going to be
a strategic acquisition for somebody

458
00:25:18,710 –> 00:25:23,210
filling a gap that nobody else
has that fits a bigger picture,

459
00:25:23,210 –> 00:25:25,070
whether it was an ads play or those.

460
00:25:25,190 –> 00:25:28,520
You likely weren’t going to be a platform
you were going to be more bolted on or

461
00:25:28,520 –> 00:25:30,590
tucked into a platform most likely.

462
00:25:30,650 –> 00:25:35,450
Yeah, my I was like, nobody else
is doing anything in this space.

463
00:25:37,010 –> 00:25:41,060
I can fill that hole for whoever thinks
that it’s the most valuable to them at

464
00:25:41,060 –> 00:25:41,893
the time.

465
00:25:42,470 –> 00:25:46,520
Yeah, that makes a ton
of sense. And really

466
00:25:48,080 –> 00:25:51,830
building a brand that is a little bit
dependent on your personality. I mean,

467
00:25:51,830 –> 00:25:55,580
that’s what done here at OMGA,
public facing, I’m speaking,

468
00:25:55,580 –> 00:25:59,240
I’m doing all kinds of things.
And so certainly my brand and OMG,

469
00:25:59,240 –> 00:26:01,490
they’re intertwined, which is fine.

470
00:26:01,880 –> 00:26:04,400
I think part of that though is you got
to lean into your strengths, right?

471
00:26:04,400 –> 00:26:07,580
Absolutely. You’re good at
building community. People
know you, they trust you,

472
00:26:07,580 –> 00:26:08,413
they like you,

473
00:26:08,780 –> 00:26:13,280
so don’t shy away from that
just so that a future exit is.

474
00:26:13,610 –> 00:26:14,300
Agree.

475
00:26:14,300 –> 00:26:16,700
Easier, whatever, lean into it a strength,

476
00:26:16,970 –> 00:26:19,220
you’re going to build a business faster,
it’s going to be more profitable,

477
00:26:19,520 –> 00:26:22,700
and that’s going to make the
business more valuable. Absolutely.

478
00:26:22,700 –> 00:26:24,560
And they kept you on as well,

479
00:26:24,740 –> 00:26:29,270
which I’m sure was part of that was
related to your personal brand being

480
00:26:29,270 –> 00:26:30,103
attacked.

481
00:26:32,270 –> 00:26:37,040
So I was planning on being
around a lot longer solo,

482
00:26:37,040 –> 00:26:37,873
and then

483
00:26:39,740 –> 00:26:43,740
we’ve talked a lot about building your
network and being open to conversations

484
00:26:43,740 –> 00:26:46,950
is really critical in
whatever realm you operate in.

485
00:26:47,820 –> 00:26:51,750
And the wayward thing came out
of a LinkedIn conversation.

486
00:26:52,140 –> 00:26:52,973
No way.

487
00:26:54,840 –> 00:26:55,650
So.

488
00:26:55,650 –> 00:26:59,550
Like a post you made on LinkedIn, someone
commented on it, or just a connection?

489
00:27:00,790 –> 00:27:02,580
I made a comment on another post,

490
00:27:02,970 –> 00:27:06,000
and the head of growth from Wayward
reached out to me and was like,

491
00:27:06,030 –> 00:27:07,920
I’d love to get on a call
and just kind of chat.

492
00:27:07,980 –> 00:27:11,430
And so I take a lot of those just
because interesting in our space.

493
00:27:11,730 –> 00:27:12,563
And learn something.

494
00:27:13,010 –> 00:27:15,090
And then he was like, Hey,
you should meet our CEO.

495
00:27:15,090 –> 00:27:17,550
So I met Allie and then
she and I had lunch,

496
00:27:17,550 –> 00:27:21,180
and then I did some consulting for them.
And as we worked together, it was like,

497
00:27:21,270 –> 00:27:25,920
oh, this is actually a really good
fit. We have a whole offering together.

498
00:27:27,000 –> 00:27:30,810
By the way, what a brilliant
strategy from wayward part,

499
00:27:30,810 –> 00:27:34,260
I’m assuming this was part of
the strategy. Hey, here’s Liz.

500
00:27:34,560 –> 00:27:38,040
Cool product, cool tech,

501
00:27:38,640 –> 00:27:42,480
let’s hire her as a consultant and let’s
see what it’s like to work with her.

502
00:27:43,230 –> 00:27:46,350
That’s actually something we’ve done
several times as we looked at acquisitions

503
00:27:46,350 –> 00:27:49,230
is, Hey, let’s run some projects
together. So we’re looking,

504
00:27:49,320 –> 00:27:51,630
we’re talking m and a, we’re talking
about joining forces, whatever.

505
00:27:51,630 –> 00:27:55,590
Let’s run projects together. Let’s
just see how this goes. I mean,

506
00:27:55,600 –> 00:27:58,710
that’s the best due
diligence you could ever do,

507
00:27:59,520 –> 00:28:03,930
or the best addition to due
diligence you could ever do. So cool.

508
00:28:03,930 –> 00:28:07,500
So what was it like going
through the sales process?

509
00:28:08,430 –> 00:28:13,020
Any tips, suggestions for
someone who’s considering it,

510
00:28:13,020 –> 00:28:16,530
about to get into the sales process,
the selling of their business,

511
00:28:16,530 –> 00:28:19,470
that process? What was it
like? What tips do you have?

512
00:28:20,250 –> 00:28:24,060
So I think probably the two best
decisions I made were I had a broker.

513
00:28:25,650 –> 00:28:29,850
So even though I had kind
of sourced or whatever,

514
00:28:30,120 –> 00:28:31,680
I was working with Wayward,

515
00:28:31,680 –> 00:28:36,510
I worked with a broker to help
me put together my valuation,

516
00:28:37,200 –> 00:28:40,290
my kit, just some of those things.

517
00:28:40,290 –> 00:28:45,000
So even though technically the
sale happened outside of the broker

518
00:28:45,000 –> 00:28:45,690
situation,

519
00:28:45,690 –> 00:28:49,440
there were so many things that putting
together specifically around the

520
00:28:49,440 –> 00:28:54,360
valuation that was really valuable to
have his input around what’s currently

521
00:28:54,360 –> 00:28:55,800
going, what the multiples are.

522
00:28:57,300 –> 00:28:59,760
And then the next best
thing I did was an attorney.

523
00:28:59,790 –> 00:29:00,960
Because initially I was like.

524
00:29:01,950 –> 00:29:02,400
Got to.

525
00:29:02,400 –> 00:29:05,370
Got, I was like, I can do this
with chat GPT, and then I was like,

526
00:29:05,910 –> 00:29:10,170
will I regret that if I do it wrong?
I was like, yes, I will. So you.

527
00:29:10,470 –> 00:29:14,160
Will. I mean, I love chat GPT or
Claude or other tools for legal.

528
00:29:14,850 –> 00:29:15,390
Help.

529
00:29:15,390 –> 00:29:18,690
Structuring advice in the early
days. It can help guide you,

530
00:29:18,690 –> 00:29:21,570
and those tools can really
show you some things, but man,

531
00:29:21,570 –> 00:29:22,710
if you’re doing a big deal,

532
00:29:22,890 –> 00:29:25,410
this may be one of the biggest
transactions of your life.

533
00:29:25,560 –> 00:29:29,550
If you’re looking to acquire or sell or
whatever, hire a good m and a attorney.

534
00:29:29,700 –> 00:29:30,810
It’s so worth.

535
00:29:30,810 –> 00:29:32,220
It. Yep, exactly. So

536
00:29:34,170 –> 00:29:36,840
those are the things I wouldn’t do
differently, you know what I mean?

537
00:29:37,080 –> 00:29:40,850
Those are the decisions that I’m
really glad I made those two decisions.

538
00:29:41,830 –> 00:29:44,110
For sure, for sure. Anything
you would’ve done differently?

539
00:29:46,570 –> 00:29:50,860
It’s a good question. I’ve been trying
to think about that. And honestly,

540
00:29:50,920 –> 00:29:55,870
at the moment, I don’t have
anything. I think probably because

541
00:29:57,940 –> 00:30:02,140
I’m a big believer in if you feel like
you’re trying to kick the door down that

542
00:30:02,140 –> 00:30:03,850
maybe that’s not the direction.

543
00:30:03,850 –> 00:30:08,080
And it just felt like every door in
this situation just kind of opened,

544
00:30:08,830 –> 00:30:13,150
and so I just kind of walked
down the path, right? The CEO,

545
00:30:13,150 –> 00:30:17,500
Allie and I have a very open
relationship, and so if I had a concern,

546
00:30:18,130 –> 00:30:20,500
I would just go to her and
there was nothing major.

547
00:30:20,500 –> 00:30:24,880
But anytime you have these types
of big detailed conversations.

548
00:30:25,510 –> 00:30:25,840
Making.

549
00:30:25,840 –> 00:30:29,590
Sure that you’re clear on things
is super important, obviously.

550
00:30:29,590 –> 00:30:32,620
And so I don’t currently
have anything where I’m like,

551
00:30:32,740 –> 00:30:35,380
I wish I had done that part differently.

552
00:30:35,800 –> 00:30:39,640
It’s so great. Well, and one thing,
and because of the way this unfolded,

553
00:30:40,330 –> 00:30:44,050
got to know them by meeting in person
and then working as a consultant with

554
00:30:44,050 –> 00:30:48,370
them, you really got a feel for their
character and the way they operate.

555
00:30:48,550 –> 00:30:53,110
And because even though
this isn’t a forever thing,

556
00:30:53,350 –> 00:30:57,460
it’s kind of getting married,
especially if you merge companies,

557
00:30:57,460 –> 00:30:59,620
that’s like a marriage. So
you got to really make sure,

558
00:30:59,770 –> 00:31:03,670
is this someone I want to be married
to for the next X number of years?

559
00:31:04,070 –> 00:31:04,903
Yeah, exactly.

560
00:31:05,530 –> 00:31:09,790
Yeah. And that’s where I love
being tenacious and if I get a no,

561
00:31:10,090 –> 00:31:11,740
I’m going to figure out a way to
get a yes and things like that,

562
00:31:12,190 –> 00:31:16,780
but you don’t want to have to, Hey,
this is going to be a partnership.

563
00:31:16,780 –> 00:31:18,790
I don’t want to have to
fight for everything.

564
00:31:19,630 –> 00:31:23,110
It should feel somewhat
seamless or effortless,

565
00:31:23,110 –> 00:31:27,730
at least in parts of it,
like the communication and
the openness and the, Hey,

566
00:31:27,730 –> 00:31:30,940
are we collaborative? And
stuff like that. Yeah,

567
00:31:30,940 –> 00:31:35,320
it sounds like you definitely
took the right path there

568
00:31:36,070 –> 00:31:36,903
and it paid off. It paid off.

569
00:31:37,330 –> 00:31:40,210
I’m really pleased with the
outcome. I love being on the team,

570
00:31:40,210 –> 00:31:43,540
and that was part of the reason that when
we started having those conversations,

571
00:31:43,660 –> 00:31:47,890
I had been solo for two years,
which pretty extroverted.

572
00:31:48,580 –> 00:31:52,400
So being able to join a team that’s moving
in the right direction has been like,

573
00:31:52,570 –> 00:31:53,740
oh, good. I have people again.

574
00:31:54,310 –> 00:31:58,300
Dude, I thrive in a team
environment. I can do okay on my own.

575
00:31:58,300 –> 00:32:01,270
I don’t mind to sit and write or
crunch numbers for a little bit.

576
00:32:01,270 –> 00:32:04,840
But doing that for a long period of
time, no, that’s not where I want to be.

577
00:32:06,220 –> 00:32:09,100
That’s amazing. So now
kind of foreseeable future,

578
00:32:09,100 –> 00:32:12,610
you’re going to be helping build this
out, or is this a short-term thing?

579
00:32:12,610 –> 00:32:17,530
Are you allowed to say what does
the future hold for Liz and for

580
00:32:17,530 –> 00:32:18,363
flu fruit?

581
00:32:18,460 –> 00:32:18,880
Yeah. Well,

582
00:32:18,880 –> 00:32:22,600
I have this really cool opportunity
with Wayward to build their creator

583
00:32:22,600 –> 00:32:24,700
division. That’s awesome. So I

584
00:32:26,320 –> 00:32:31,090
get to visualize, strategize, scope
and help execute on this in a way,

585
00:32:32,140 –> 00:32:34,300
to your earlier point,
know your strengths.

586
00:32:34,840 –> 00:32:38,980
I get to build a community that’s
rooted in education and tools and

587
00:32:39,410 –> 00:32:41,780
straight knowledge sharing
around a lot of this.

588
00:32:42,830 –> 00:32:44,600
So I’m really excited about that.

589
00:32:44,600 –> 00:32:48,590
So I don’t know how long that
takes or where that takes me,

590
00:32:48,590 –> 00:32:49,730
but for right now,

591
00:32:51,860 –> 00:32:56,450
we’re natural builders that appeals to
me is I get to go build something cool

592
00:32:56,450 –> 00:32:59,960
with additional resources and helping
the community that I’m bringing along.

593
00:33:00,470 –> 00:33:03,920
With a team with capital,
with a structure.

594
00:33:03,980 –> 00:33:06,710
But you get a little bit
of the best of both worlds.

595
00:33:06,710 –> 00:33:08,510
You can still be
entrepreneurial and build,

596
00:33:08,900 –> 00:33:13,790
but with some resources at your
disposal. So that is awesome. Well,

597
00:33:13,790 –> 00:33:18,200
Liz, kudos to you, man. Great job.
This was your goal at the outset.

598
00:33:18,200 –> 00:33:22,490
Let me build something that is valuable
enough that someone wants to buy it.

599
00:33:22,550 –> 00:33:24,560
You did it yet a successful exit.

600
00:33:24,950 –> 00:33:25,100
Thank.

601
00:33:25,100 –> 00:33:27,860
Now you guys are building
together, which is super great.

602
00:33:27,860 –> 00:33:29,900
So if people are listening to
this and they’re like, man,

603
00:33:29,900 –> 00:33:32,840
I want to know more about
wayward or about flu fruit.

604
00:33:33,230 –> 00:33:36,590
I want to tap into Amazon,

605
00:33:36,650 –> 00:33:40,220
the Amazon influencer ecosystem,
either as an influencer,

606
00:33:40,220 –> 00:33:41,630
I probably just got brands listening,

607
00:33:41,630 –> 00:33:43,430
but I could have some people
who want to do an influencer,

608
00:33:43,970 –> 00:33:45,140
but how can people find more?

609
00:33:45,650 –> 00:33:46,520
Yeah, absolutely.

610
00:33:46,520 –> 00:33:51,410
So wayward.com is like if you
just want a general whatever,

611
00:33:51,410 –> 00:33:54,430
I also do calls with brands. So
if you’re like, you know what?

612
00:33:54,440 –> 00:33:58,550
I just have questions, I’m Liz at, at
wayward.com, just shoot me an email.

613
00:33:58,550 –> 00:34:00,470
We’ll set up a time.
I’ll walk you through.

614
00:34:02,060 –> 00:34:06,440
I’ll do an audit of your listings and
tell you organically what you can be doing

615
00:34:06,440 –> 00:34:10,130
to attract those influencers and or
how we can help you push more traffic,

616
00:34:10,130 –> 00:34:12,680
kind of figuring, solving for
the problem you’re having.

617
00:34:13,340 –> 00:34:15,320
Yeah, yeah, it’s amazing.

618
00:34:15,320 –> 00:34:19,510
And then it’s Fluencer fruit.com
as well, is that’s the.

619
00:34:19,880 –> 00:34:23,300
Yep. If you’re looking for the
extension, it’s Fluencer fruit.com.

620
00:34:24,080 –> 00:34:27,470
Amazing. And then Liz, what about
on the socials? Are you active?

621
00:34:27,470 –> 00:34:28,360
Are you active on LinkedIn,

622
00:34:28,360 –> 00:34:31,700
or was just the onetime
comment that changed your life?

623
00:34:31,820 –> 00:34:36,470
Yeah, yeah. I know, right?
It’s like random comment. I’m,

624
00:34:37,010 –> 00:34:39,230
I’m active on LinkedIn,

625
00:34:39,230 –> 00:34:43,460
so I think my profile is like Liz
Saunders, but if you look up Liz Saunders,

626
00:34:43,460 –> 00:34:44,300
you should find me.

627
00:34:45,260 –> 00:34:47,660
Awesome. I’ll link to everything
in the show notes as well.

628
00:34:47,660 –> 00:34:52,040
So check out what Liz is up to. Liz,
thank you so much. It’s been a ton of fun,

629
00:34:52,040 –> 00:34:54,200
super valuable. And man,

630
00:34:54,470 –> 00:34:58,910
I’m excited to watch you guys build and
make the Amazon influencer space even

631
00:34:58,910 –> 00:34:59,420
better.

632
00:34:59,420 –> 00:35:00,800
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

633
00:35:01,670 –> 00:35:05,270
Awesome. And as always, thank you for
tuning in. We’d love to hear from you.

634
00:35:05,270 –> 00:35:08,660
What would you like to hear more of on
the show? And if you’ve not done so,

635
00:35:08,660 –> 00:35:11,840
we’d love that review on iTunes,
helps other people discover the show.

636
00:35:12,260 –> 00:35:14,630
And with that, until next
time, thank you for listening.