1
00:00:00,000 –> 00:00:03,690
Every one of us that starts a
business, we have this vision,

2
00:00:03,900 –> 00:00:08,340
this creative vision of
doing something important and

3
00:00:08,340 –> 00:00:11,910
providing a service or providing meaning.

4
00:00:11,910 –> 00:00:15,600
And sometimes as companies
grow, they lose sight of that.

5
00:00:27,810 –> 00:00:31,920
Well, hello and welcome to another edition
of the E-Commerce Evolution podcast.

6
00:00:32,190 –> 00:00:35,130
I’m your host, Brett
Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce.

7
00:00:35,130 –> 00:00:39,990
And today I have two very special guests.

8
00:00:40,200 –> 00:00:43,650
We got female co-founders of Ascend.

9
00:00:44,040 –> 00:00:48,690
And when I say that these two are
legends in the e-comm and D two C

10
00:00:48,690 –> 00:00:51,930
space, I’m not exaggerating,
they’ve done some amazing things,

11
00:00:51,930 –> 00:00:55,140
worked with some amazing brands you’re
going to hear about in just a minute.

12
00:00:55,140 –> 00:00:58,860
But we’ve got Mickey
Winter, the CEO of Ascend,

13
00:00:59,280 –> 00:01:02,550
and Carrie Weidenbach, the COO of Ascend,

14
00:01:02,550 –> 00:01:06,960
and they focus on working
with purpose-driven

15
00:01:07,050 –> 00:01:10,920
e-com brands and creating
solutions for them.

16
00:01:10,920 –> 00:01:13,710
And so we’re talking about today is one,

17
00:01:13,710 –> 00:01:16,680
how can you remain purpose-driven
in a time of uncertainty?

18
00:01:16,680 –> 00:01:17,970
So when there’s margin pressure,

19
00:01:17,970 –> 00:01:21,840
which there has been in our space for
some time at the time of this recording,

20
00:01:21,840 –> 00:01:26,700
there’s tariff chaos in the industry
that no one knows exactly what to

21
00:01:26,700 –> 00:01:30,120
do with. And so when there’s times
of uncertainty or change or chaos,

22
00:01:30,330 –> 00:01:33,420
how do you stay purpose-driven in that?

23
00:01:33,480 –> 00:01:38,460
And then we’re going to look at what they
call the maturity matrix and see where

24
00:01:38,460 –> 00:01:42,540
you are as a brand on that matrix and
how you can get to the next level.

25
00:01:42,540 –> 00:01:45,840
And so with that, Mickey, Carrie,

26
00:01:45,840 –> 00:01:47,760
welcome to the show and how’s it going?

27
00:01:48,600 –> 00:01:49,530
Thanks for having us, Brett.

28
00:01:49,980 –> 00:01:54,480
We really appreciate taking this
time to talk with you today.

29
00:01:55,380 –> 00:01:57,060
Absolutely, absolutely.

30
00:01:57,060 –> 00:02:00,090
And it’s one of those things we connected
because Carrie, you and I go way back,

31
00:02:00,090 –> 00:02:04,800
Mickey, we’ve met more recently, but
Carrie and I go way, way back. In fact,

32
00:02:04,800 –> 00:02:06,510
I think it’d be interesting
to note, Carrie,

33
00:02:06,510 –> 00:02:08,580
when did we first start working
together through Classical Lama?

34
00:02:08,580 –> 00:02:12,330
That was like 2011 or
something like that, maybe 12.

35
00:02:12,370 –> 00:02:13,690
I dunno this forever ago.

36
00:02:13,790 –> 00:02:17,650
It’s definitely over 10
years ago, over a decade.

37
00:02:17,820 –> 00:02:21,360
And we’ve done a ton of
exciting projects together.

38
00:02:21,840 –> 00:02:25,170
But let’s dive into this
tariff conversation.

39
00:02:25,170 –> 00:02:26,003
Because.

40
00:02:27,060 –> 00:02:31,980
People have to be nimble and
quick and adjust to this.

41
00:02:31,980 –> 00:02:36,780
And what we’re seeing across
the board is if you have

42
00:02:36,840 –> 00:02:40,950
a strong foundation in your
values, in your purpose,

43
00:02:41,460 –> 00:02:45,930
you can really weather
this storm of tariffs.

44
00:02:46,290 –> 00:02:49,920
So we look at brands like Allbirds,

45
00:02:52,410 –> 00:02:57,210
they build sustainably for
their shoes and they have

46
00:02:57,210 –> 00:03:00,910
their resourcing based on that,
their suppliers based on that.

47
00:03:00,910 –> 00:03:05,320
They have a diverse supply chain
based on the sustainability. And so

48
00:03:07,090 –> 00:03:11,860
they can adjust and
refocus their supply base.

49
00:03:11,860 –> 00:03:16,390
So I would say that’s your
number one strategy is having a

50
00:03:16,420 –> 00:03:18,880
diversified supply base divers.

51
00:03:18,940 –> 00:03:21,760
So you’re not just dependent on China.

52
00:03:22,960 –> 00:03:26,230
Brazil is a really appealing
country to do work with.

53
00:03:26,590 –> 00:03:29,830
That’s what All Birds
has as an alternative.

54
00:03:29,830 –> 00:03:34,660
And so they’re just shifting more
of their supply base to Brazil.

55
00:03:36,040 –> 00:03:36,430
Yeah,

56
00:03:36,430 –> 00:03:39,940
we’re hearing that from a number of
brands and the brands that are in better

57
00:03:39,940 –> 00:03:44,320
shape now than others are those that
have been working on diversifying the

58
00:03:44,320 –> 00:03:45,190
supply chain,

59
00:03:45,520 –> 00:03:49,120
not something you can just kind of snap
the fingers and get a new factory or a

60
00:03:49,120 –> 00:03:52,450
new group making your
stuff in another country.

61
00:03:52,510 –> 00:03:55,600
So those that had the foresight and
we’re like, Hey, see this coming.

62
00:03:55,600 –> 00:03:59,560
We’ve heard of some that
have pre-purchased inventory
for the year that was a

63
00:03:59,560 –> 00:04:01,810
winner. I’ve talked to a
brand today that did that.

64
00:04:01,810 –> 00:04:05,350
So they’ve locked in their pricing,
gather, got everything imported.

65
00:04:05,350 –> 00:04:06,183
Not everybody can do that.

66
00:04:07,300 –> 00:04:10,300
But then others have worked
to diversify the supply chain,

67
00:04:10,300 –> 00:04:13,420
which makes a ton of sense.
Do you think there’s,

68
00:04:13,840 –> 00:04:16,360
and we would love if you have a
point on that as well, Mickey,

69
00:04:16,360 –> 00:04:19,150
but is there something
also about being, well,

70
00:04:19,150 –> 00:04:23,560
let’s maybe step back and define what
does it mean to be purpose driven or

71
00:04:23,560 –> 00:04:27,070
mission driven and give some examples.
You want to tackle that one, Mickey?

72
00:04:27,070 –> 00:04:27,490
Sure.

73
00:04:27,490 –> 00:04:28,323
Sure.

74
00:04:29,110 –> 00:04:33,760
So it’s taking your values
as a brand and using that as

75
00:04:33,760 –> 00:04:37,600
your north star when it
comes to making decisions.

76
00:04:38,620 –> 00:04:43,450
It helps to create this pathway that

77
00:04:44,670 –> 00:04:48,910
you can balance and take
trade-offs on when you’re

78
00:04:48,910 –> 00:04:52,360
consistently looking at what
your ultimate purpose is,

79
00:04:52,360 –> 00:04:57,280
be it being a sustainable
brand. Being a brand who,

80
00:04:58,870 –> 00:05:02,260
one of the brands that I’ve worked
with in the past Garden of Life is

81
00:05:02,380 –> 00:05:05,590
supplements. So thinking about them,

82
00:05:06,070 –> 00:05:10,300
they focus on creating
supplements that are fully

83
00:05:10,300 –> 00:05:15,040
organic made with Whole
Foods and sticking to that

84
00:05:15,040 –> 00:05:18,100
as their base mission
and not veering from it.

85
00:05:18,100 –> 00:05:22,120
Because ultimately what it’s
going to do is create this

86
00:05:22,300 –> 00:05:25,750
strong connection with
their customer base.

87
00:05:26,410 –> 00:05:29,410
And the customer base can trust
that they will consistently

88
00:05:31,090 –> 00:05:35,020
follow their mission and use
that as the driving strategy,

89
00:05:35,230 –> 00:05:37,780
but then making the decisions based

90
00:05:39,990 –> 00:05:44,470
off of your mission. So it’s
really whatever your purpose is,

91
00:05:45,190 –> 00:05:47,620
it’s really using that
as your guiding light.

92
00:05:49,060 –> 00:05:49,930
Yeah, I love that.

93
00:05:49,930 –> 00:05:54,070
And in some ways that can really
help with messaging during this time.

94
00:05:54,400 –> 00:05:59,210
So you are Garden of Life and maybe you
are about to have to raise your prices.

95
00:05:59,210 –> 00:06:01,670
You communicate to your customers, Hey,

96
00:06:01,670 –> 00:06:06,560
here’s why we will never
compromise on these ingredients

97
00:06:06,560 –> 00:06:10,370
or this approach to our product.
We’re going to be sustainable.

98
00:06:10,970 –> 00:06:11,930
Come hell or high water,

99
00:06:12,260 –> 00:06:15,710
we’re going to deliver good ingredients
for you because we believe this is why

100
00:06:15,710 –> 00:06:16,543
we’re here.

101
00:06:17,120 –> 00:06:20,990
So to do that and to not
to keep the doors open,

102
00:06:21,800 –> 00:06:24,560
you think of an elegant way to say that
we’ve got to raise prices a little bit,

103
00:06:24,890 –> 00:06:29,510
and I think your core audience
will likely understand that piece.

104
00:06:29,990 –> 00:06:33,110
And when it comes to the
prices and the price increase,

105
00:06:33,350 –> 00:06:37,790
you want to be as transparent
as possible with your customers.

106
00:06:38,030 –> 00:06:41,660
So we’ve even seen
examples where brands are,

107
00:06:41,810 –> 00:06:46,220
you’re in the checkout flow, you didn’t
even enter the checkout flow, actually,

108
00:06:46,700 –> 00:06:50,780
you’re in the cart and within the
cart you see your estimated tax,

109
00:06:50,780 –> 00:06:55,550
your estimated shipping,
and the estimate on tariffs,

110
00:06:55,940 –> 00:06:59,480
the additional charge for tariffs.
So it’s not something that’s hidden,

111
00:07:00,020 –> 00:07:01,400
it’s not something you’re burying.

112
00:07:01,670 –> 00:07:06,050
And we’ve always found that e-commerce
brands who are very transparent about

113
00:07:06,650 –> 00:07:10,580
the total cost of ownership and the total
expense that their customers are going

114
00:07:10,580 –> 00:07:14,780
to have to spend, then they’re
more likely to convert in the end.

115
00:07:14,780 –> 00:07:17,840
Otherwise you’re going to get a lot of
abandoned carts and people are going to

116
00:07:17,840 –> 00:07:22,760
be confused as to why is everything
so high once I’m ready to

117
00:07:22,760 –> 00:07:22,910
pull.

118
00:07:22,910 –> 00:07:24,230
The trigger. Interesting. So yeah,

119
00:07:24,740 –> 00:07:28,640
I’ve heard a few people talk about
that and I would love to hear your

120
00:07:28,640 –> 00:07:31,430
perspectives and make you
sort of laid it out there,

121
00:07:31,430 –> 00:07:33,800
but would love to hear how this has gone.

122
00:07:33,800 –> 00:07:36,470
So I know that there’s one
camp of people that say,

123
00:07:36,470 –> 00:07:39,230
just raise the price and
for certain categories,

124
00:07:39,230 –> 00:07:42,770
the consumer will just deal with it,
other competitors are raising prices,

125
00:07:42,770 –> 00:07:44,120
it’s just going to be the new normal.

126
00:07:44,630 –> 00:07:47,270
Others say some of what
you just said where hey,

127
00:07:47,390 –> 00:07:51,500
keep the price the same in the cart,
we’re adding a line for tariff,

128
00:07:51,950 –> 00:07:55,400
obviously then customers will see that
that’s going to change the total things

129
00:07:55,400 –> 00:07:56,233
like that.

130
00:07:56,390 –> 00:08:00,800
Does that cause a spike
in abandoned carts or

131
00:08:01,550 –> 00:08:04,850
have we not seen that have that
impact? Is it too early to tell?

132
00:08:04,850 –> 00:08:06,020
What’s your perspective on that?

133
00:08:06,170 –> 00:08:06,500
Yeah,

134
00:08:06,500 –> 00:08:11,300
so Mickey and I are always proponents
of testing things with your customers

135
00:08:12,800 –> 00:08:17,720
using test strategies to
determine the tolerance

136
00:08:18,620 –> 00:08:20,270
for pricing changes.

137
00:08:20,630 –> 00:08:25,100
So there’s a lot of tools out there
that are dynamic pricing tools where you

138
00:08:25,670 –> 00:08:29,270
can test this also with customers to see.

139
00:08:29,810 –> 00:08:30,050
What.

140
00:08:30,050 –> 00:08:35,030
Their level of tolerance is for just
tacking on this tariffs surcharge.

141
00:08:36,200 –> 00:08:40,310
In some industries, it’s very
dependent on the industry,

142
00:08:40,520 –> 00:08:45,140
how price sensitive your product is
for what your strategy’s going to be.

143
00:08:45,140 –> 00:08:47,090
There is no one size fits all.

144
00:08:47,540 –> 00:08:51,830
So we recommend being transparent,

145
00:08:52,340 –> 00:08:53,570
testing this,

146
00:08:53,630 –> 00:08:57,960
seeing what the reaction is
for what people will tolerate.

147
00:08:59,490 –> 00:09:04,200
And it really is a matter of
running tests on at what price

148
00:09:04,200 –> 00:09:07,770
point does, how does that impact
conversion rate. And then you.

149
00:09:07,770 –> 00:09:08,610
Can absolutely.

150
00:09:08,760 –> 00:09:11,310
Chart that out and see what that’s
going to do to your business.

151
00:09:12,450 –> 00:09:16,860
But this is significant in a lot of cases.
I listened to the Operators podcast,

152
00:09:16,860 –> 00:09:20,010
which is one I highly
recommend Mike Beckham,

153
00:09:20,100 –> 00:09:23,880
who’s the CEO and
co-founder of Simple Modern,

154
00:09:23,880 –> 00:09:25,230
their drinkware brand.

155
00:09:26,250 –> 00:09:29,220
And they import everything from China
is what it sounds like from the podcast.

156
00:09:29,280 –> 00:09:33,210
He said that they would
have to raise prices 25%

157
00:09:34,740 –> 00:09:39,150
and sell the same amount of
volume to stay profit neutral.

158
00:09:39,330 –> 00:09:41,520
So to keep profits where they are,

159
00:09:41,820 –> 00:09:45,840
25% increase in price and
keep the same sales velocity,

160
00:09:46,440 –> 00:09:48,900
not super likely that
they’d be able to do that.

161
00:09:48,900 –> 00:09:50,820
But that’s one of those
things where to me,

162
00:09:51,870 –> 00:09:55,950
maybe there’s a limit here to what
that tariff add-on at the end can be.

163
00:09:55,950 –> 00:09:59,850
If it’s 25%, I think people are going to
be like, what is this? I’m out of here.

164
00:10:00,660 –> 00:10:02,940
In that case you want to
add it upfront I think,

165
00:10:02,940 –> 00:10:07,530
but it probably is worth testing doing
it both ways depending on how much of a

166
00:10:07,530 –> 00:10:08,760
tariff upcharge there is.

167
00:10:09,390 –> 00:10:13,050
And it’s not always, the solution
doesn’t always have to be raising prices.

168
00:10:13,230 –> 00:10:17,910
It could be a little bit more
creative in even what you’re offering.

169
00:10:17,910 –> 00:10:22,470
So one of the brands that I
always look to as a leader in the

170
00:10:22,470 –> 00:10:24,570
space is Patagonia.

171
00:10:25,410 –> 00:10:29,640
And I don’t know if you’re familiar
with their worn wear collection,

172
00:10:30,480 –> 00:10:32,970
but it’s pre-warn items and they also,

173
00:10:33,480 –> 00:10:36,360
you have the ability
to refurbish products.

174
00:10:36,720 –> 00:10:40,740
So instead of buying a whole new jacket,

175
00:10:40,740 –> 00:10:45,720
you can get your zipper
repaired or maybe you

176
00:10:45,720 –> 00:10:50,610
snagged it on a tree hiking or
climbing a rock or something. But

177
00:10:52,320 –> 00:10:53,460
in those cases,

178
00:10:54,090 –> 00:10:58,560
they were creative in
staying within their mission,

179
00:10:58,560 –> 00:11:03,000
but also creating a whole nother
less expensive way to purchase their

180
00:11:03,000 –> 00:11:05,970
products. And now you’re refurbishing,

181
00:11:05,970 –> 00:11:09,210
so you’re not having to bring
in from the manufacturers.

182
00:11:10,350 –> 00:11:15,060
Super interesting. And that requires
a build out of services or build,

183
00:11:15,570 –> 00:11:19,320
but way easier than spinning up a
factory or getting out of manufacturing

184
00:11:19,320 –> 00:11:24,000
relationship. And so that’s an interesting
spin as well. I really like that.

185
00:11:24,900 –> 00:11:28,620
What else are you hearing
brands do right now?

186
00:11:28,620 –> 00:11:32,760
And also I wonder if you
are purpose-driven or

187
00:11:32,760 –> 00:11:33,630
mission-driven,

188
00:11:34,290 –> 00:11:38,850
you can probably protect the
margins a little bit better.

189
00:11:38,850 –> 00:11:41,040
You may have had better margins anyway,

190
00:11:42,060 –> 00:11:44,010
but are you hearing anything else?

191
00:11:44,010 –> 00:11:48,780
What are purpose-driven brands doing
right now to protect margins and to keep

192
00:11:48,780 –> 00:11:49,613
their mission?

193
00:11:51,840 –> 00:11:56,830
So I think doing broader
communication of that mission and

194
00:11:56,830 –> 00:12:01,480
developing that
relationship with the brand,

195
00:12:01,480 –> 00:12:06,190
the more that you can
increase loyalty and talk

196
00:12:06,190 –> 00:12:10,150
about other value that
you provide as a company,

197
00:12:10,150 –> 00:12:14,590
your culture focusing on that, taking

198
00:12:17,020 –> 00:12:21,010
the focus off of price, I
think is really helping brands.

199
00:12:22,060 –> 00:12:24,670
Yeah. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

200
00:12:26,140 –> 00:12:29,470
I realized a few minutes ago, but we were
in the flow so I didn’t want to stop,

201
00:12:29,470 –> 00:12:33,220
but we just got right after
delivering value to the people,

202
00:12:33,280 –> 00:12:35,140
telling people what they need
to think about and do right now,

203
00:12:35,560 –> 00:12:38,020
we didn’t talk about your backgrounds.
I said, you guys were legends. I said,

204
00:12:38,020 –> 00:12:41,050
we known each other for a long
time and we got right into tariffs.

205
00:12:41,050 –> 00:12:44,320
What do mean? They dunno who we
are. Come on now. Nobody knows.

206
00:12:44,950 –> 00:12:47,980
Who. For the audience that doesn’t
know your names immediately,

207
00:12:48,400 –> 00:12:53,380
let’s give the 32nd
background because Mickey,

208
00:12:53,380 –> 00:12:54,940
you’ve done a lot of amazing things.

209
00:12:55,390 –> 00:12:58,870
What have you done in the industry
and why did I call you a legend?

210
00:12:59,170 –> 00:13:00,003
Yeah,

211
00:13:00,340 –> 00:13:04,270
so I’ve been in the space for a
little over 20 years probably.

212
00:13:05,140 –> 00:13:08,980
My longest stint was actually as the
chief creative officer of something

213
00:13:08,980 –> 00:13:13,180
digital, was an e-commerce
based solutions provider,

214
00:13:13,180 –> 00:13:14,320
digital agency,

215
00:13:15,070 –> 00:13:18,970
and worked with a number
of brands back then.

216
00:13:18,970 –> 00:13:21,850
I come from the creative
side obviously. So

217
00:13:23,590 –> 00:13:28,090
I am always looking at creating
customer experiences that are based on

218
00:13:28,090 –> 00:13:32,650
data. Like Carrie said,
I’m a huge advocate of

219
00:13:34,360 –> 00:13:38,080
creating a culture of
experimentation, not only internally,

220
00:13:38,080 –> 00:13:39,820
but with our clients as well.

221
00:13:40,900 –> 00:13:45,520
And aside from being in
the e-commerce space,

222
00:13:45,520 –> 00:13:49,000
I am also a painter, fine artist.

223
00:13:49,810 –> 00:13:53,500
And my first career,
actually, I was an educator,

224
00:13:53,500 –> 00:13:57,880
so I taught high school nice art
back in the day, way back in the day.

225
00:13:57,940 –> 00:14:01,600
That’s pretty the 20 years in this space

226
00:14:03,070 –> 00:14:06,490
and also at the college level. So for me,

227
00:14:06,820 –> 00:14:11,170
it’s always important to
have that educational element
in everything that I do,

228
00:14:11,290 –> 00:14:13,960
be it with our internal
team or with our clients.

229
00:14:14,920 –> 00:14:18,220
Love that. And some of the cool brands
you’ve worked with over the years.

230
00:14:18,430 –> 00:14:18,970
Oh yeah.

231
00:14:18,970 –> 00:14:23,560
So some pretty big brands like Nestle and

232
00:14:23,560 –> 00:14:24,340
L’Oreal,

233
00:14:24,340 –> 00:14:28,900
but then everything from
high fashion and boutique

234
00:14:29,230 –> 00:14:34,150
fashion brands like Love Shack, fancy,
more mission-based brands like Bur Bees,

235
00:14:34,810 –> 00:14:38,290
burs B’s Baby was one of our
clients for quite a long time

236
00:14:39,490 –> 00:14:42,910
as well as Bake by Melissa

237
00:14:44,320 –> 00:14:46,930
really. So it runs the gamut.

238
00:14:47,800 –> 00:14:49,750
And even pre e-commerce,

239
00:14:49,930 –> 00:14:53,330
a lot of nonprofit organizations
we are focusing on.

240
00:14:53,330 –> 00:14:56,900
So in the creation of Ascend
with Carrie, my goal was to go

241
00:14:59,680 –> 00:15:04,610
back to the heart of things and
working with brands who are,

242
00:15:04,790 –> 00:15:07,700
we don’t care if you’re just
starting out or you’ve been in,

243
00:15:08,330 –> 00:15:10,610
you’re a successful leader in the space,

244
00:15:11,720 –> 00:15:13,370
we want to work with you regardless.

245
00:15:14,180 –> 00:15:18,140
And we want to be able to
provide value to our clients

246
00:15:19,160 –> 00:15:23,960
and helping them excel and lift their
mission and their impact make their impact

247
00:15:24,170 –> 00:15:25,003
greater.

248
00:15:25,820 –> 00:15:27,460
So good, so good. And then
Carrie, what about you?

249
00:15:27,460 –> 00:15:28,940
You’ve been A-C-O-O-A long time,

250
00:15:28,940 –> 00:15:32,060
you’ve been running ops
at some amazing agencies.

251
00:15:32,060 –> 00:15:34,430
You’ve worked with some
amazing brands and companies,

252
00:15:34,430 –> 00:15:37,160
but give the quick
background for you as well.

253
00:15:37,310 –> 00:15:40,160
Yeah, for sure. Brett,
when you and I first met,

254
00:15:40,160 –> 00:15:44,480
I was COO at Classy
Lama and then eventually

255
00:15:45,140 –> 00:15:47,300
became president of that agency.

256
00:15:47,300 –> 00:15:51,770
I was a COO of another B2B
e-commerce agency called E seven

257
00:15:51,770 –> 00:15:52,790
Solutions.

258
00:15:53,300 –> 00:15:58,280
And then I was vice president of programs
at something digital in Wright Point,

259
00:15:58,280 –> 00:16:00,770
where Mickey and I got a
chance to work together.

260
00:16:01,370 –> 00:16:06,260
And my superpower all along
in this space has been

261
00:16:06,560 –> 00:16:10,700
creating value by delivering e-commerce

262
00:16:10,700 –> 00:16:11,690
websites,

263
00:16:12,410 –> 00:16:17,240
the software development
on time and on budget with

264
00:16:17,240 –> 00:16:18,050
quality.

265
00:16:18,050 –> 00:16:22,310
And you would think that that
would be the norm in our industry.

266
00:16:23,240 –> 00:16:27,800
But for everybody who’s ever
done a build out of a new site,

267
00:16:28,460 –> 00:16:31,490
I can tell you it’s not the norm.

268
00:16:31,490 –> 00:16:34,040
It’s not the norm at all. It’s
like construction always late,

269
00:16:34,100 –> 00:16:37,610
always over budget, just the way it goes.
But yeah, I got to see that firsthand.

270
00:16:37,820 –> 00:16:42,680
You guys deliver real solutions
that work and on budget and on

271
00:16:42,680 –> 00:16:46,190
time, which is very impressive. Okay,
awesome. Now that people are like, Hey,

272
00:16:46,190 –> 00:16:48,590
I got great tariff insights and
now I know who you guys are,

273
00:16:48,590 –> 00:16:49,880
so let’s get after a little bit.

274
00:16:49,880 –> 00:16:53,660
So let’s talk about this maturity matrix,

275
00:16:53,690 –> 00:16:58,580
five levels to the matrix. I’m not sure
who’s doing which level, but level one,

276
00:16:58,580 –> 00:16:59,350
what is it?

277
00:16:59,350 –> 00:17:04,040
And give us some examples and then where
do people get stuck in level one and

278
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:04,940
how do they move to the next?

279
00:17:05,030 –> 00:17:08,540
Yeah, sure. I can kick us off. So overall,

280
00:17:09,800 –> 00:17:13,160
we call it the conscious commerce
maturity matrix. I know it’s a mouthful.

281
00:17:13,160 –> 00:17:17,600
Anyone has better ideas and
what to call it, we are open,

282
00:17:18,350 –> 00:17:23,270
but basically it’s a framework that
helps us evaluate in e-commerce

283
00:17:23,480 –> 00:17:23,990
business,

284
00:17:23,990 –> 00:17:28,220
digital maturity and then balance that
with their purpose and their impact.

285
00:17:28,220 –> 00:17:33,200
So each level outlines like
key marketing strategies,

286
00:17:33,320 –> 00:17:36,260
e-commerce capabilities and functionality,

287
00:17:36,530 –> 00:17:40,640
and then brand positioning to help
that business scale effectively.

288
00:17:40,880 –> 00:17:44,060
So the first one is we call it emerging.

289
00:17:44,510 –> 00:17:47,060
So this is a brand that’s in its infancy.

290
00:17:47,270 –> 00:17:51,630
They’re establishing like
a e-commerce experience,

291
00:17:51,630 –> 00:17:56,130
and they’re beginning to explore
purpose-driven initiatives.

292
00:17:57,180 –> 00:18:01,530
So basically they have
a basic online presence,

293
00:18:01,530 –> 00:18:05,160
minimal optimization, they’re
reactive in their marketing.

294
00:18:05,160 –> 00:18:08,820
They have very limited, if
any customer segmentation,

295
00:18:08,940 –> 00:18:13,920
and we’re really focusing on
helping them define their why and

296
00:18:13,920 –> 00:18:16,350
then piloting their first initiative.

297
00:18:16,770 –> 00:18:20,250
So there’s a brand that we
work with today called chena.

298
00:18:20,250 –> 00:18:23,730
They’re a new gym in community
center in Brooklyn in New York,

299
00:18:24,360 –> 00:18:25,650
founded by on Acosta.

300
00:18:25,680 –> 00:18:30,390
And we work with them to create on our

301
00:18:30,390 –> 00:18:32,670
offering that we call our
minimum lovable brand,

302
00:18:33,030 –> 00:18:36,180
which is very similar to
a minimum viable product,

303
00:18:36,270 –> 00:18:38,190
but from a branding purpose.

304
00:18:38,190 –> 00:18:43,170
So you’re focusing on the foundational
elements and you are focusing on

305
00:18:43,200 –> 00:18:46,470
making those foundational
elements lovable, right?

306
00:18:46,470 –> 00:18:50,880
Because you want people to have an
emotion as soon as they interact with your

307
00:18:50,880 –> 00:18:52,800
brand, a good, a positive emotion,

308
00:18:55,830 –> 00:18:56,160
not.

309
00:18:56,160 –> 00:18:57,030
Repulsion or.

310
00:18:57,030 –> 00:19:01,010
Right, exactly. A affinity,
some love goodbyes.

311
00:19:03,480 –> 00:19:07,050
So in working with them, because
they’re a brand new brand,

312
00:19:07,680 –> 00:19:12,240
it’s really about establishing the base

313
00:19:12,570 –> 00:19:16,530
visual identity and then
what that brand strategy is.

314
00:19:16,530 –> 00:19:21,180
So we ended up building their site
on Squarespace and integrating with

315
00:19:21,330 –> 00:19:23,700
mindbody. I’m not sure if
you’re familiar with that,

316
00:19:23,700 –> 00:19:28,260
but all of the e-commerce
engine is run by mindbody.

317
00:19:28,260 –> 00:19:32,970
It’s very much a platform
for businesses who are in

318
00:19:32,970 –> 00:19:37,890
the wellness space, spa
salons, gyms obviously.

319
00:19:38,700 –> 00:19:43,440
And so right now we’re
just speaking with her

320
00:19:44,310 –> 00:19:45,420
just yesterday actually,

321
00:19:45,420 –> 00:19:50,280
I was speaking with Anna about
how are they going to react to all

322
00:19:50,370 –> 00:19:53,490
the tariffs and the chaos and everything
that people are feeling, right?

323
00:19:53,490 –> 00:19:58,170
Everybody’s uneasy and is it time
to buy a new gym membership or

324
00:19:59,040 –> 00:20:01,140
do you have any extra money to spend here?

325
00:20:01,440 –> 00:20:06,000
So we’re looking to develop
community pricing model

326
00:20:06,270 –> 00:20:10,440
where you can pay as you a
lower priced model interesting

327
00:20:11,190 –> 00:20:12,420
for customers.

328
00:20:12,450 –> 00:20:16,830
And it’s really about the messaging
there because if you can afford it

329
00:20:17,460 –> 00:20:20,340
and pay the standard fee,

330
00:20:20,340 –> 00:20:23,550
you are helping to support other
people in the community that can’t

331
00:20:26,190 –> 00:20:30,090
and creating a balance there.

332
00:20:30,150 –> 00:20:34,950
And that’s part of the mission
of isch is to really create

333
00:20:34,950 –> 00:20:39,510
this open inclusive community in that

334
00:20:39,510 –> 00:20:43,770
area and fostering wellness and joy.

335
00:20:44,940 –> 00:20:48,730
And I think during times of
uncertainty, change and stress,

336
00:20:49,270 –> 00:20:52,930
never a more important
time to work out than now.

337
00:20:52,930 –> 00:20:57,820
And so the last thing you want
to skimp on or cut out of your

338
00:20:57,820 –> 00:21:00,970
budget is something that’s going to
improve your health and your wellbeing.

339
00:21:01,360 –> 00:21:04,450
But I love that where you can kind
of present the message of, hey,

340
00:21:04,450 –> 00:21:05,770
if you can’t pay full price, great,

341
00:21:05,770 –> 00:21:08,200
because what you’re doing is
you’re supporting Those that can,

342
00:21:08,200 –> 00:21:10,420
and we got this community pricing,
and so then it kind feels like, Hey,

343
00:21:11,050 –> 00:21:14,110
I’m doing my part. I don’t like
the tariff, but I’ve got money.

344
00:21:14,110 –> 00:21:17,110
I’m just going to pay the full price
that can allow someone else to get in

345
00:21:17,110 –> 00:21:20,710
there. And so that’s an
interesting angle. I love that.

346
00:21:20,710 –> 00:21:22,930
So at this emerging level,

347
00:21:22,930 –> 00:21:25,990
we’re building the foundation
of a minimum lovable brand.

348
00:21:26,770 –> 00:21:28,360
We’re creating all the branding
and all the foundation,

349
00:21:28,360 –> 00:21:32,230
the messaging and things like that.
Anything else to add to level one?

350
00:21:32,230 –> 00:21:36,430
And then what are the things we have
to solve for to get to level two.

351
00:21:36,880 –> 00:21:37,713
Right?

352
00:21:37,960 –> 00:21:42,700
It’s basically working through the list of

353
00:21:42,700 –> 00:21:43,480
strategies.

354
00:21:43,480 –> 00:21:48,310
So getting to a place where you have

355
00:21:48,310 –> 00:21:52,480
an email subscriber list that
you can consistently market to

356
00:21:52,990 –> 00:21:56,680
and start segmenting if you
have less than 500 emails,

357
00:21:57,640 –> 00:21:58,750
does it even make sense?

358
00:21:59,350 –> 00:22:03,880
So it’s not just from an
e-commerce experience perspective,

359
00:22:03,880 –> 00:22:07,810
but also the marketing and
the brand strategy behind it.

360
00:22:08,830 –> 00:22:12,880
Blockers could just be as
a new brand is just getting

361
00:22:13,270 –> 00:22:16,420
awareness, making people
aware of the brand,

362
00:22:17,170 –> 00:22:21,910
and so increasing membership
at this particular

363
00:22:21,910 –> 00:22:26,140
gym so that you can start
putting money back into

364
00:22:26,230 –> 00:22:27,910
evolving the business.

365
00:22:28,490 –> 00:22:30,670
Great. Great. So then
what about level two?

366
00:22:30,670 –> 00:22:33,040
What is level two and give us an example.

367
00:22:33,850 –> 00:22:37,030
So level two is when we want
to start to scale the business,

368
00:22:37,030 –> 00:22:41,590
we feel that we have a solid
foundation and we’re ready to

369
00:22:41,590 –> 00:22:42,423
grow.

370
00:22:43,300 –> 00:22:46,720
So that starts with a
structured marketing plan,

371
00:22:46,720 –> 00:22:51,100
and that’s often where teams like yours
come into the picture after we’ve built

372
00:22:51,100 –> 00:22:55,630
the site and we have
that foundation stable.

373
00:22:55,630 –> 00:23:00,580
But what we see a lot of
times is we start with the

374
00:23:00,580 –> 00:23:05,410
roadblocks and the misalignments. So I
don’t know if you remember this, Brett,

375
00:23:05,410 –> 00:23:10,270
but years ago you and I worked with a
brand that was up and coming that nobody

376
00:23:10,270 –> 00:23:12,280
had ever heard of called Johnny O.

377
00:23:13,060 –> 00:23:17,260
Right now everybody knows Johnny O,
but when you and I worked with them,

378
00:23:18,100 –> 00:23:22,540
I was working on the marketing strategy
with you and we were sending traffic to

379
00:23:22,540 –> 00:23:26,200
their site, but it wasn’t converting,

380
00:23:28,330 –> 00:23:33,040
the message wasn’t out there, the brand
couldn’t sell it. And so John O’Donnell,

381
00:23:33,040 –> 00:23:35,110
when he created that brand,

382
00:23:35,230 –> 00:23:40,210
he had this vision of
taking East Coast Prep

383
00:23:40,210 –> 00:23:44,950
Ralph Lauren and combining it with
Southern California grunge and

384
00:23:44,960 –> 00:23:47,630
relaxed where,

385
00:23:48,560 –> 00:23:53,510
and we were sending great traffic
to them, but it wasn’t converting.

386
00:23:53,510 –> 00:23:58,370
So we really had to focus on
improving the CX and improving

387
00:23:58,730 –> 00:24:00,050
the story there.

388
00:24:00,500 –> 00:24:05,120
And so what level two is in scaling
is you try something and you

389
00:24:05,120 –> 00:24:05,810
tweak,

390
00:24:05,810 –> 00:24:10,760
you try something and you tweak
and you’re really learning on how

391
00:24:10,760 –> 00:24:11,600
to get there.

392
00:24:11,690 –> 00:24:16,370
And I just love to see the
transformation of the Brandon Geno

393
00:24:17,390 –> 00:24:21,980
and now they give back
by giving away clothes

394
00:24:22,400 –> 00:24:23,930
to disaster relief areas is.

395
00:24:24,170 –> 00:24:27,680
It’s amazing. It’s amazing. And it’s
one of those things where first of all,

396
00:24:27,680 –> 00:24:31,610
love Johnny O. Love their style, love
the way they approach things. But yeah,

397
00:24:32,030 –> 00:24:33,260
when you start to see, hey,

398
00:24:33,260 –> 00:24:35,360
we’re driving traffic or we’re
getting people to the site,

399
00:24:35,720 –> 00:24:38,660
they’re not converting it, what is
it? Is it the shopping experience?

400
00:24:39,110 –> 00:24:43,820
Is it the promise or the message isn’t
the same as what they’re seeing on the

401
00:24:43,820 –> 00:24:47,540
sites? There’s lack of congruency. Are
we just pulling in the wrong people?

402
00:24:47,690 –> 00:24:49,490
What is it that’s not working?

403
00:24:50,270 –> 00:24:54,890
But that’s really what takes a little
bit of time to figure out time and data.

404
00:24:55,280 –> 00:24:58,220
But then when you do get it right and
it is the right message to the right

405
00:24:58,220 –> 00:25:00,890
person at the right time and
then a good shopping experience,

406
00:25:01,280 –> 00:25:06,230
it can create some magic as is the
case with Johnny O. So that’s awesome.

407
00:25:07,640 –> 00:25:11,420
Good. So what then are
some of the blockers?

408
00:25:11,420 –> 00:25:13,940
What are some of the things we’ve got
to solve in level two before we get to

409
00:25:13,940 –> 00:25:14,773
level three?

410
00:25:15,800 –> 00:25:19,970
So misalignment, inconsistent messaging,

411
00:25:21,290 –> 00:25:26,270
not evoking that emotion and that
feeling that you’re trying to convey

412
00:25:26,270 –> 00:25:30,800
with your brand. We see all kinds of stuff

413
00:25:33,320 –> 00:25:37,880
sometimes. And so we watch that
conversion funnel all the time.

414
00:25:38,510 –> 00:25:43,340
Where are people not getting it? Where
are they bouncing? What’s happening?

415
00:25:43,340 –> 00:25:45,680
And like we talked about and then we test,

416
00:25:47,600 –> 00:25:49,910
we do that conversion rate optimization.

417
00:25:50,270 –> 00:25:54,770
It’s so much less expensive for our

418
00:25:54,770 –> 00:25:59,630
clients to do a test on the
front end to change something

419
00:25:59,690 –> 00:26:03,260
before changing code, right?
Code’s expensive to change,

420
00:26:03,260 –> 00:26:04,760
you’ve got to do a deployment,

421
00:26:05,930 –> 00:26:09,950
but we start tweaking with testing.

422
00:26:10,770 –> 00:26:12,290
Yeah, yeah, I love that.

423
00:26:12,290 –> 00:26:15,680
And it’s one of those things where it’s
both on the messaging side up front but

424
00:26:15,680 –> 00:26:20,330
then also on the site and some things
you think are going to work, don’t. Boom,

425
00:26:20,600 –> 00:26:21,740
beauty longtime climb.

426
00:26:21,740 –> 00:26:26,540
My buddy Ezra Firestone runs the
company and there’s always been skincare

427
00:26:26,810 –> 00:26:28,490
for women like boomer women and older,

428
00:26:28,970 –> 00:26:33,920
and they thought most women view
themselves as so young and whatever.

429
00:26:33,920 –> 00:26:37,640
So for a while they always had the age
appropriate models in their ads and they

430
00:26:37,640 –> 00:26:41,660
thought, well, let’s just try women
in their late forties or whatever.

431
00:26:41,660 –> 00:26:45,870
And there was almost a
coup, there was a protest,

432
00:26:45,870 –> 00:26:48,690
the people reached out and
they’re like, that is not me.

433
00:26:48,930 –> 00:26:51,270
What are you doing in these
at? And you’re like, oh, sorry,

434
00:26:51,990 –> 00:26:54,810
we’ll go back to the core.
No problem. But yeah,

435
00:26:54,810 –> 00:26:58,650
you got to test stuff like that because
sometimes little things like age of the

436
00:26:58,650 –> 00:27:00,720
model or how we’re displaying this thing,

437
00:27:00,720 –> 00:27:03,330
you wouldn’t think it would would’ve a
big impact. It could have a big impact.

438
00:27:03,480 –> 00:27:05,940
So really, really important. Good.

439
00:27:06,600 –> 00:27:09,360
What about then what
level are we ready for? I.

440
00:27:09,360 –> 00:27:09,810
Said.

441
00:27:09,810 –> 00:27:09,970
Three.

442
00:27:09,970 –> 00:27:11,130
We level three. Yeah, level three. So.

443
00:27:12,660 –> 00:27:13,290
Go for it. Does that back to you?

444
00:27:13,290 –> 00:27:17,220
What is level three? So level three
is optimizing, talking about testing.

445
00:27:17,850 –> 00:27:21,960
So level, level two, you start
dipping your toe into that.

446
00:27:22,260 –> 00:27:26,550
But now level three is
taking that data and then

447
00:27:26,700 –> 00:27:30,360
using it to make the actual change.

448
00:27:30,870 –> 00:27:32,280
So you’re testing,

449
00:27:32,280 –> 00:27:36,540
but now you are implementing those
tests that have proved successful.

450
00:27:36,810 –> 00:27:40,230
You’re leveraging automation
and personalization.

451
00:27:40,230 –> 00:27:43,920
So now you know more about
your customer, who they are,

452
00:27:44,040 –> 00:27:45,390
what they’re looking for.

453
00:27:46,020 –> 00:27:50,280
You had mentioned with Johnny
O and sending possibly maybe

454
00:27:50,280 –> 00:27:54,150
unqualified traffic to the site
and people were converting.

455
00:27:54,630 –> 00:27:57,510
We know who the audience is at this level.

456
00:27:57,720 –> 00:28:02,430
And there’s also from an impact
perspective or purpose perspective,

457
00:28:03,800 –> 00:28:07,140
there’s a structured
impact strategy in place.

458
00:28:07,440 –> 00:28:09,300
You know what you’re trying to convey,

459
00:28:10,320 –> 00:28:12,360
what the values are
within the organization,

460
00:28:12,360 –> 00:28:16,050
and you’re putting that
first as you execute.

461
00:28:16,650 –> 00:28:21,030
So you’re looking at holistic
marketing strategies,

462
00:28:21,720 –> 00:28:26,670
data-driven marketing automation, like
I said, even ai predictive search,

463
00:28:27,180 –> 00:28:31,230
if you’re thinking about the
customer experience on the website,

464
00:28:31,470 –> 00:28:33,420
loyalty and rewards programs.

465
00:28:33,690 –> 00:28:37,740
But you always ask also
what might be a roadblock,

466
00:28:37,770 –> 00:28:40,170
what’s stopping them from
moving to the next? Right.

467
00:28:41,850 –> 00:28:42,840
At level three,

468
00:28:42,840 –> 00:28:47,700
one of the blocks that we see is a
lack of cross-departmental alignment.

469
00:28:48,270 –> 00:28:52,950
So the marketing team might be
misaligned with the technology

470
00:28:52,950 –> 00:28:53,783
team

471
00:28:55,980 –> 00:28:58,620
while the purpose and
the mission is there,

472
00:28:58,800 –> 00:29:00,960
not everyone’s bought into it internally,

473
00:29:01,440 –> 00:29:04,320
everyone has their own
initiatives going on.

474
00:29:04,560 –> 00:29:09,480
And so that can really prohibit
the overall brand from successfully

475
00:29:09,480 –> 00:29:13,260
moving forward. It’s not always
what’s happening with the customer,

476
00:29:13,770 –> 00:29:15,210
you got to look inside as well.

477
00:29:16,110 –> 00:29:19,680
Yeah, it’s such a good
point. What tips do you have?

478
00:29:19,740 –> 00:29:21,600
What examples do you have?

479
00:29:21,600 –> 00:29:24,960
And then do you have any suggestions
on tools or other things that are

480
00:29:24,960 –> 00:29:25,920
appropriate for this level?

481
00:29:27,330 –> 00:29:29,070
So specific tools,

482
00:29:29,580 –> 00:29:33,900
there’s so many tools out there from if
we’re thinking about functionality and

483
00:29:34,380 –> 00:29:39,300
everything from Algolia search and
VU and things like that to help with

484
00:29:39,540 –> 00:29:41,800
AI driven search,

485
00:29:43,060 –> 00:29:46,990
but tools in thinking
about how do you mend

486
00:29:48,340 –> 00:29:50,260
that disconnect internally,

487
00:29:52,210 –> 00:29:56,380
think about maybe there’s
leadership training that

488
00:29:57,070 –> 00:30:00,250
you’re giving to the leaders
within your organization.

489
00:30:00,250 –> 00:30:04,690
Carrie and I are actually in the process
of taking this really great conscious

490
00:30:04,690 –> 00:30:08,740
leadership training
this month and I’m like,

491
00:30:08,740 –> 00:30:13,510
everybody should take
this course because it’s

492
00:30:13,510 –> 00:30:18,400
been very eyeopening and also doing things

493
00:30:18,400 –> 00:30:20,470
internally to get other people aligned.

494
00:30:20,710 –> 00:30:25,270
If you’re more friendly with the
people within your organization,

495
00:30:25,390 –> 00:30:29,770
you respect them and it’s really
working together to do that.

496
00:30:29,770 –> 00:30:34,600
And you need that leadership from the
top to help encourage the teams to

497
00:30:34,600 –> 00:30:37,420
really get along and to
get on the same page.

498
00:30:38,440 –> 00:30:42,550
Yeah, I love it. I really believe
businesses only really has two things,

499
00:30:42,910 –> 00:30:46,810
brand and culture. Brand
is the outside perception.

500
00:30:46,810 –> 00:30:49,330
It’s what the marketplace
believes about you,

501
00:30:49,330 –> 00:30:52,030
thinks about you when they see your
logo or your product, what do they feel?

502
00:30:52,030 –> 00:30:53,770
What are those emotions
like we talked about before?

503
00:30:53,770 –> 00:30:57,940
But brand and then culture and
culture is who you are on the inside.

504
00:30:57,940 –> 00:30:59,860
How are those departments
communicating with each other?

505
00:31:00,190 –> 00:31:01,150
How are you actually operating?

506
00:31:01,150 –> 00:31:04,570
Are you actually mission-driven or is
that just something you say and it’s not

507
00:31:04,570 –> 00:31:06,040
real? What is the culture?

508
00:31:06,310 –> 00:31:11,230
Because ultimately the culture will
influence the brand and it will

509
00:31:11,260 –> 00:31:14,020
shine through and people will
see that. So both are important.

510
00:31:14,020 –> 00:31:17,440
So I love that you brought that up.
Sometimes it’s not just a tech solution,

511
00:31:17,830 –> 00:31:20,140
sometimes it’s an internal
department solution.

512
00:31:20,140 –> 00:31:24,940
Maybe that’s part of the blocker
that’s keeping you stuck where you are.

513
00:31:25,480 –> 00:31:29,020
It’s the need to get more alignment
and better communication and better

514
00:31:29,050 –> 00:31:33,100
leadership inside your team, which
impacts culture overall. It’s great,

515
00:31:33,280 –> 00:31:34,000
great insight.

516
00:31:34,000 –> 00:31:38,350
Just a very visual
example that you can see

517
00:31:38,830 –> 00:31:43,390
where there might be misalignment
in a brand is just the

518
00:31:43,390 –> 00:31:48,040
carousel that they might have
on the homepage. There’s five,

519
00:31:48,040 –> 00:31:52,720
six slides of different,
maybe it’s products,

520
00:31:52,720 –> 00:31:56,500
maybe it’s mission-based
branding and messaging.

521
00:31:56,500 –> 00:32:01,060
But when there’s so many different slides

522
00:32:01,060 –> 00:32:02,110
within a carousel,

523
00:32:02,110 –> 00:32:05,380
it’s because everyone in the organization
is fighting for the top spot.

524
00:32:05,890 –> 00:32:06,310
You can’t.

525
00:32:06,310 –> 00:32:09,040
Choose it’s decision by
committee or everyone.

526
00:32:09,040 –> 00:32:09,410
Gets a choice.

527
00:32:09,410 –> 00:32:14,410
Everybody fighting internally of they
want their thing to be upfront and

528
00:32:14,410 –> 00:32:17,410
center. So the carousel
kind of in my opinion,

529
00:32:17,590 –> 00:32:22,210
developed because of internal
struggle and less about trying to

530
00:32:22,780 –> 00:32:24,610
assist the customer in their experience.

531
00:32:25,330 –> 00:32:25,720
Yeah,

532
00:32:25,720 –> 00:32:29,170
it’s a really good call out when something
looks kind of Frankenstein together

533
00:32:29,170 –> 00:32:30,940
or where are we going here?

534
00:32:30,940 –> 00:32:34,540
This is a committee decision thing or
everyone fighting internally or whatever.

535
00:32:34,540 –> 00:32:38,890
Yeah, that’s a really great example.
Okay, cool. So level four ready for that.

536
00:32:39,260 –> 00:32:41,060
Back to you. What is
level four? I’m going to.

537
00:32:41,060 –> 00:32:45,710
Take this one. Oh, sorry. Just to
mix it up, make things up for you.

538
00:32:46,910 –> 00:32:50,060
But I wanted to take this one because

539
00:32:51,980 –> 00:32:56,660
the name of this level is called
Leading. And like I mentioned before,

540
00:32:58,850 –> 00:33:03,290
Patagonia is one of the
leaders in this space. And so

541
00:33:05,570 –> 00:33:06,920
if you’re at level four,

542
00:33:06,950 –> 00:33:11,840
you’re recognized as a leader in the
e-commerce space and as well as the impact

543
00:33:11,840 –> 00:33:15,380
you’re integrating
sustainability, employee wellness,

544
00:33:15,380 –> 00:33:18,050
customer experience at every touch point.

545
00:33:18,440 –> 00:33:20,750
And they are a great case study for that.

546
00:33:21,530 –> 00:33:26,060
They’re strong brand loyalty
driven by values and innovation.

547
00:33:27,590 –> 00:33:31,460
Their purpose is what differentiates
them from their competitors.

548
00:33:31,850 –> 00:33:36,440
Deep personalization happening on
the site. There’s very high loyalty.

549
00:33:38,240 –> 00:33:42,260
What I mentioned earlier about
the wear as a solution to

550
00:33:43,340 –> 00:33:48,230
a different perspective on how
to deal with increasing costs.

551
00:33:49,940 –> 00:33:54,710
One of the things that could be
a blocker though is losing your

552
00:33:54,710 –> 00:33:57,050
authenticity as you continue to scale,

553
00:33:58,490 –> 00:34:03,290
as you continue to grow. That would
be one area that you’d really need to

554
00:34:03,290 –> 00:34:07,580
keep an eye on because you
don’t want to lose that mission.

555
00:34:07,580 –> 00:34:09,230
I’m not saying Patagonia is doing that,

556
00:34:09,230 –> 00:34:11,960
I’m just saying for an
organization in this space,

557
00:34:11,960 –> 00:34:15,860
that’s one area you definitely
want to pay close attention to.

558
00:34:16,940 –> 00:34:21,740
But outside of the warm wear collection,
I don’t know if you’re familiar in,

559
00:34:21,740 –> 00:34:25,190
I think it was 2010 or 2011,

560
00:34:25,460 –> 00:34:28,640
they created this campaign
called Don’t Buy This Jacket.

561
00:34:30,140 –> 00:34:35,060
And it was a Black Friday
ad that ran in the New York

562
00:34:35,060 –> 00:34:39,770
Times and it was like featuring
their bestselling product

563
00:34:40,550 –> 00:34:44,060
at the time, I think it was a fleece
or something. And it wasn’t about,

564
00:34:44,120 –> 00:34:47,420
they were saying don’t buy this jacket
because what they’re saying is they want

565
00:34:47,420 –> 00:34:51,890
customers to buy less and repair more
and they were really encouraging them to

566
00:34:52,610 –> 00:34:57,380
go through the process of using
their wear collection or their

567
00:34:57,380 –> 00:34:59,180
refurbished products.

568
00:34:59,180 –> 00:35:02,810
So you can just send in your products
that are Patagonia and then have them

569
00:35:02,810 –> 00:35:04,040
repaired by the brand.

570
00:35:05,540 –> 00:35:07,340
Super interesting and a bit risky.

571
00:35:07,520 –> 00:35:07,670
So.

572
00:35:07,670 –> 00:35:10,880
Don’t buy this. But the cool thing
about that is everybody’s like,

573
00:35:10,880 –> 00:35:15,110
wait a minute, what? Definitely a pattern
interrupt, not what you’re expecting.

574
00:35:15,110 –> 00:35:18,470
So then you lean in potentially a little
bit more, which is super interesting.

575
00:35:19,340 –> 00:35:24,260
And their sales that year increased
I think by 30% after that.

576
00:35:24,710 –> 00:35:29,270
And so their purpose and
profit can coexist, right?

577
00:35:29,270 –> 00:35:30,080
It’s not one or the.

578
00:35:30,080 –> 00:35:30,913
Other.

579
00:35:32,000 –> 00:35:35,300
And it’s also one of those things too
where that resonates with their customer.

580
00:35:35,360 –> 00:35:39,450
So people that are active that
are climbing and affluent,

581
00:35:39,450 –> 00:35:44,280
they’re also conscious about the
earth and environment climbing,

582
00:35:44,280 –> 00:35:46,710
things like that. So that feels
good. Just say, wait a minute, yeah,

583
00:35:46,710 –> 00:35:48,990
I do have this awesome coat, I’m
just going to get that repaired.

584
00:35:49,470 –> 00:35:51,570
But you know what, we all
like to buy stuff too.

585
00:35:51,570 –> 00:35:53,880
So there’s also a lot of this
people that are like, yeah,

586
00:35:53,880 –> 00:35:56,040
but I’m going to buy this
pair of pants as well.

587
00:35:56,040 –> 00:35:58,740
I’m going to buy this new
thing for sure. Just I want to.

588
00:35:58,740 –> 00:36:01,410
And now I feel like I’m giving back
sort of even though I’m just buying

589
00:36:01,410 –> 00:36:03,420
something. So yeah, it just all.

590
00:36:03,420 –> 00:36:04,930
Works money. So now maybe I.

591
00:36:04,930 –> 00:36:05,763
Save money.

592
00:36:07,400 –> 00:36:07,400
Yeah.

593
00:36:07,400 –> 00:36:11,790
We’re always looking for the justification
of how can I justify this purchase

594
00:36:13,050 –> 00:36:15,570
with logic? I already made it
emotionally. Yeah, absolutely. Really.

595
00:36:15,570 –> 00:36:16,050
Great.

596
00:36:16,050 –> 00:36:19,650
Absolutely. So that’s level four.
So then level five, bring us home.

597
00:36:20,010 –> 00:36:21,060
So back to you, Carrie. Yeah.

598
00:36:21,420 –> 00:36:24,240
Yeah. Level five, pioneering.

599
00:36:24,810 –> 00:36:29,490
So I have spent the
last five years working

600
00:36:29,490 –> 00:36:33,750
with a very pioneering
brand in the e-commerce

601
00:36:33,750 –> 00:36:36,450
space, AB InBev,

602
00:36:36,450 –> 00:36:39,390
the parent company of Anheuser-Busch.

603
00:36:39,990 –> 00:36:44,100
I worked with them on their
digital sales transformation,

604
00:36:44,160 –> 00:36:45,570
B2B globally.

605
00:36:46,170 –> 00:36:50,490
And they really went from an
in-person sales strategy to

606
00:36:50,490 –> 00:36:55,320
transition to online
selling in a space where you

607
00:36:55,320 –> 00:36:56,460
wouldn’t expect it,

608
00:36:57,240 –> 00:37:00,840
where you’re selling to bars and
restaurants and corner stores,

609
00:37:01,800 –> 00:37:02,633
beer.

610
00:37:03,120 –> 00:37:07,830
But they have done some incredibly
pioneering things in this space.

611
00:37:08,310 –> 00:37:12,690
They custom built and
algorithmic sales predictive

612
00:37:12,690 –> 00:37:17,460
engine using AI and using
historical data of what

613
00:37:17,460 –> 00:37:20,790
customers were purchasing to say, okay,

614
00:37:20,790 –> 00:37:23,760
now we think this is what your
next order is going to look like.

615
00:37:23,760 –> 00:37:27,510
And so they would build up the entire
next order for the customer and present

616
00:37:27,510 –> 00:37:31,710
that to them so they could put the entire
thing in the cart and just check out.

617
00:37:32,340 –> 00:37:35,370
And that increased sales significantly.

618
00:37:36,030 –> 00:37:40,800
And after they built this
infrastructure and we launched it

619
00:37:40,800 –> 00:37:44,010
in 24 countries in four years,
they said, you know what?

620
00:37:44,010 –> 00:37:47,340
We’re going to take this a step further
and we’re going to become more like an

621
00:37:47,340 –> 00:37:48,750
Amazon for B2B.

622
00:37:49,920 –> 00:37:54,510
Now they’ve taken their e-commerce
platform and they’re using it

623
00:37:55,200 –> 00:37:59,310
as a marketplace for other
consumer goods companies.

624
00:37:59,490 –> 00:38:04,260
They’ve onboarded Nestle and Mondelez
in a bunch of countries around the

625
00:38:04,260 –> 00:38:05,700
globe into this platform.

626
00:38:05,700 –> 00:38:09,330
So that’s when you’re
transforming business,

627
00:38:10,200 –> 00:38:12,720
then you’re a pioneer in this space.

628
00:38:12,720 –> 00:38:13,553
Really interesting.

629
00:38:13,690 –> 00:38:18,540
So what is their primary
objective with this marketplace or

630
00:38:18,540 –> 00:38:22,530
creating the Amazon for B2B?
What’s their objective with that?

631
00:38:23,610 –> 00:38:25,290
They were really smart about it.

632
00:38:26,160 –> 00:38:30,660
They have 2.5 million customers that
they’re selling beer to around the globe,

633
00:38:30,660 –> 00:38:33,240
and they have the infrastructure already.

634
00:38:34,230 –> 00:38:38,200
They’re shipping weekly to all of these
locations. And they said, wait a minute,

635
00:38:38,200 –> 00:38:40,970
why don’t we share this
infrastructure? Love.

636
00:38:40,970 –> 00:38:41,803
It. I love it. It’s.

637
00:38:41,970 –> 00:38:45,940
Brilliant with other companies
that are selling to our clients,

638
00:38:47,200 –> 00:38:49,870
we’ve done all the
work. Let’s expand this.

639
00:38:51,010 –> 00:38:55,900
Yeah, it’s really what a great idea.
We’ve already got the distribution system,

640
00:38:55,930 –> 00:38:58,780
the relationships, the system customer.

641
00:38:58,780 –> 00:39:02,500
Our stuff, customers using our app or
our website to purchase every week, what.

642
00:39:02,500 –> 00:39:03,333
Other products there.

643
00:39:03,370 –> 00:39:08,170
For their store. If you
have a grocery store, a bar,

644
00:39:08,620 –> 00:39:11,170
a restaurant, a corner kiosk,

645
00:39:11,680 –> 00:39:16,000
you’re replenishing the beer every
week, you’re in there ordering.

646
00:39:18,130 –> 00:39:22,150
So how can we create new revenue lines
and new opportunities here through what

647
00:39:22,150 –> 00:39:27,100
we already have? I think that’s just such
an important business skill of how can

648
00:39:27,100 –> 00:39:30,490
I leverage existing
assets, existing tools,

649
00:39:30,490 –> 00:39:34,450
existing relationships to
open up new opportunities and

650
00:39:35,470 –> 00:39:37,210
really create a solution. I love that.

651
00:39:38,140 –> 00:39:42,160
What are some of the things that
you’re hearing right now from

652
00:39:42,670 –> 00:39:47,020
your clients? Are they
doubling down on mission?

653
00:39:47,320 –> 00:39:51,460
Are they a little bit fearful
because they’re mission driven?

654
00:39:52,630 –> 00:39:57,610
Because to me it seems like this is not
the time just to start slashing prices.

655
00:39:57,610 –> 00:39:58,570
Nobody’s slashing prices, I guess,

656
00:39:58,570 –> 00:40:02,860
but it’s not the time to go cheap
or to just go into survival mode

657
00:40:02,860 –> 00:40:03,693
necessarily.

658
00:40:04,000 –> 00:40:08,140
This is the time probably to lean into
whatever your purpose is or whatever your

659
00:40:08,140 –> 00:40:11,500
mission is. And there may be a
little bit of riding the storm,

660
00:40:11,500 –> 00:40:12,280
weathering the storm,

661
00:40:12,280 –> 00:40:16,960
but I think you can use this
to your advantage and to your

662
00:40:17,950 –> 00:40:21,670
customer’s advantage by
leaning into your mission.

663
00:40:22,150 –> 00:40:24,430
So what else are you hearing or
seeing from your clients right now?

664
00:40:26,320 –> 00:40:29,230
I think you’re exactly
right. I think leaning

665
00:40:30,740 –> 00:40:34,690
into the mission and why you’re
in business in the first place,

666
00:40:35,470 –> 00:40:39,520
every one of us that starts a
business, we have this vision,

667
00:40:39,700 –> 00:40:44,140
this creative vision of
doing something important and

668
00:40:44,140 –> 00:40:47,680
providing a service or providing meaning.

669
00:40:47,680 –> 00:40:51,520
And sometimes as companies
grow, they lose sight of that.

670
00:40:52,090 –> 00:40:53,320
And we focus on

671
00:40:56,230 –> 00:41:00,040
all the nuances of our
business. The bottom line this,

672
00:41:00,040 –> 00:41:02,290
the how are we going to change this?

673
00:41:02,290 –> 00:41:05,710
And sometimes we forget
that original purpose.

674
00:41:05,710 –> 00:41:10,240
And what we see time
and time again is every

675
00:41:10,240 –> 00:41:13,570
company who focuses on that culture piece,

676
00:41:13,630 –> 00:41:15,340
on that purpose piece,

677
00:41:17,440 –> 00:41:19,120
they really start to thrive.

678
00:41:21,430 –> 00:41:24,220
It’s more of a sustainable
model in multiple ways.

679
00:41:24,340 –> 00:41:28,570
It’s more of a sustainable brand when
you have a real reason for existing,

680
00:41:28,570 –> 00:41:31,180
that’s not just selling a widget,

681
00:41:31,180 –> 00:41:34,760
which we’re always all here to sell
stuff and make money and make profits.

682
00:41:34,760 –> 00:41:38,540
Obviously we can’t exist without
that. But if there’s more to it,

683
00:41:38,660 –> 00:41:43,490
usually you’re a little more
insulated and a little more stable in

684
00:41:43,490 –> 00:41:44,420
times of uncertainty.

685
00:41:44,930 –> 00:41:49,610
Right? And what all the studies show
also is your team is more engaged,

686
00:41:50,180 –> 00:41:54,950
they’re more motivated to help
you pursue that purpose. So.

687
00:41:56,090 –> 00:41:58,940
I like it. I like it. Well, as we wrap up,

688
00:41:59,600 –> 00:42:03,650
who should be reaching out to you? So
if people are listening and thinking,

689
00:42:03,650 –> 00:42:05,810
I’m liking these tips and suggestions,

690
00:42:05,810 –> 00:42:08,150
and I maybe I’m a level three and want
to go level four or wherever they may

691
00:42:08,150 –> 00:42:11,930
find themselves on the maturity matrix,

692
00:42:12,410 –> 00:42:17,360
who are you guys really best
equipped to help and how can you help

693
00:42:17,630 –> 00:42:19,670
who should reach out to you and why?

694
00:42:20,030 –> 00:42:21,140
Like I said earlier,

695
00:42:22,100 –> 00:42:26,270
it is not a specific type of brand.

696
00:42:26,840 –> 00:42:29,210
It is anyone who

697
00:42:31,010 –> 00:42:34,490
is maybe struggling to define
a mission for their brand,

698
00:42:36,320 –> 00:42:39,410
a brand who might just be
starting up in the space,

699
00:42:39,740 –> 00:42:44,180
but also brands who are just looking to

700
00:42:45,290 –> 00:42:47,780
engage with their customers
in a different way.

701
00:42:48,050 –> 00:42:51,020
So we provide everything from,

702
00:42:51,770 –> 00:42:55,220
like I talked earlier about the
minimum level of brand offering.

703
00:42:55,790 –> 00:42:59,300
We can help you establish
a brand from the start.

704
00:42:59,360 –> 00:43:03,050
Or if, I don’t know, say for instance,

705
00:43:03,050 –> 00:43:06,380
you’re looking to do a refresh of a brand,

706
00:43:07,400 –> 00:43:11,690
really start focusing on a
mission. We are here to assist you.

707
00:43:13,160 –> 00:43:18,020
There’s other ways in dealing with
the tariffs too and the uncertainty

708
00:43:18,320 –> 00:43:22,010
thinking about testing and

709
00:43:23,570 –> 00:43:26,360
really increasing the
conversions that you have.

710
00:43:26,720 –> 00:43:29,420
You still have the same
traffic that you had yesterday,

711
00:43:30,170 –> 00:43:33,860
but how are we going to get
those people to convert more?

712
00:43:34,250 –> 00:43:38,270
We can assist with AB
testing, conversion rate,

713
00:43:38,270 –> 00:43:40,040
optimization testing,

714
00:43:41,090 –> 00:43:44,330
and even if you’re looking
to maybe switch platforms,

715
00:43:45,140 –> 00:43:47,030
we are a shop wear partner

716
00:43:49,570 –> 00:43:51,290
and we work with Shopify as well.

717
00:43:51,290 –> 00:43:55,550
So anyone who might be out there
looking to make a little bit of a

718
00:43:55,550 –> 00:44:00,320
change and start thinking
more about their mission both

719
00:44:00,380 –> 00:44:04,640
internally in the organization as
well as externally to their customers.

720
00:44:05,810 –> 00:44:08,960
So from the branding piece
to the technology piece,

721
00:44:08,960 –> 00:44:12,950
you guys have really built and been
involved with some very complex

722
00:44:13,850 –> 00:44:14,900
technology deployments.

723
00:44:14,900 –> 00:44:19,520
You talk about the AB InBev
app and some of these things.

724
00:44:19,520 –> 00:44:24,110
You guys have really executed
and delivered some very complex

725
00:44:25,070 –> 00:44:26,090
technical solutions,

726
00:44:26,090 –> 00:44:29,180
but you’re also good at the branding
piece and tying that in with mission.

727
00:44:29,180 –> 00:44:32,250
And so really, really good.
So how can people find you?

728
00:44:32,250 –> 00:44:33,540
So if someone’s listening
to this and like, Hey,

729
00:44:33,540 –> 00:44:37,170
I want to talk to Mickey and Carrie
Edison, how can they find you?

730
00:44:37,500 –> 00:44:41,550
Yeah, so we are as send a

731
00:44:41,550 –> 00:44:44,790
YSN d.com,

732
00:44:45,090 –> 00:44:47,520
our Y is you.

733
00:44:47,520 –> 00:44:51,900
It’s all our clients that we serve
so they can reach out at hello at

734
00:44:51,900 –> 00:44:54,060
Ascend and talk to us.

735
00:44:54,060 –> 00:44:58,800
And we wanted to offer all of your
listeners a chance to connect with us

736
00:44:58,830 –> 00:45:03,540
and let’s test out this
conscious commerce maturity

737
00:45:03,540 –> 00:45:04,373
model.

738
00:45:04,440 –> 00:45:08,970
We’d be happy to do an assessment for
where they’re at and share their level

739
00:45:08,970 –> 00:45:10,770
with them and

740
00:45:13,470 –> 00:45:15,900
how they can level up in their business.

741
00:45:17,010 –> 00:45:21,990
We can help look for those
gaps and opportunities for
them if they’re just maybe

742
00:45:21,990 –> 00:45:24,690
even feeling a little bit stuck
and not even sure where to look.

743
00:45:25,470 –> 00:45:26,280
Yeah.

744
00:45:26,280 –> 00:45:31,140
And you guys have such a keen eye for
what’s actually going to move the needle

745
00:45:31,140 –> 00:45:35,100
with a business, and here’s what
you’re trying to do with your brand,

746
00:45:35,100 –> 00:45:37,590
but I don’t think it’s resonating.
And so here’s how we need to pivot.

747
00:45:38,280 –> 00:45:41,940
You have a breadth of experience and
technical knowledge and brand knowledge

748
00:45:41,940 –> 00:45:44,160
that tied together is
a really unique thing,

749
00:45:44,490 –> 00:45:46,470
really unique offering
and unique skillset.

750
00:45:46,470 –> 00:45:51,360
And so A YSN

751
00:45:51,360 –> 00:45:54,870
d.com, check it out. And are you
guys on the socials as well? Sorry,

752
00:45:54,870 –> 00:45:57,630
I butchered that. But are you guys,
you’re on LinkedIn as well? Both of you?

753
00:45:58,530 –> 00:46:02,340
Absolutely. Instagram,
LinkedIn, even Facebook,

754
00:46:02,340 –> 00:46:06,060
you can find us. And
we’re always putting out

755
00:46:07,680 –> 00:46:11,700
value and advice for people,
so definitely follow.

756
00:46:11,700 –> 00:46:16,170
Us. Cool. So reach out, get
that maturity matrix assessment,

757
00:46:16,170 –> 00:46:18,660
see where you fall on that. And hey,

758
00:46:18,690 –> 00:46:22,260
now is the time to stay mission driven.

759
00:46:22,650 –> 00:46:27,000
Stay the course. Look for ways
to pivot and stay profitable.

760
00:46:27,000 –> 00:46:31,050
Reach out to good partners
like Ascend or like OMG.

761
00:46:31,440 –> 00:46:33,690
And with that, ladies, thank you.

762
00:46:33,690 –> 00:46:37,590
Thank you for bringing your knowledge
and your experience and for your time and

763
00:46:37,590 –> 00:46:38,730
keep up the good work.

764
00:46:39,630 –> 00:46:42,150
Thank you, Brett, thank you
so much for this time. Yeah,

765
00:46:42,300 –> 00:46:44,550
thank you for having us today,
Brett. We appreciate it.

766
00:46:45,240 –> 00:46:49,020
Awesome. Absolutely. And as
always, thank you for tuning in.

767
00:46:49,440 –> 00:46:52,350
We’d love to hear from you. What would
you like to hear more of on the show?

768
00:46:52,350 –> 00:46:56,430
And if you’ve not done it, please leave
us a review. That always makes our day.

769
00:46:56,700 –> 00:46:58,890
And with that, until next
time, thank you for listening.