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Speaker 1: Well, it’s great because it’s actually the perfect combo of

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people because you have P & G people,

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Speaker 1: you have Cody.

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Speaker 2: People, and then actually now there’s quite a few L’Oreal people.

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Speaker 1: And then within the digital ecosystem of e-commerce, we have

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of the startup type of people

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: So I actually think it’s a really nice balance.

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Speaker 1: Somebody actually said this to me recently, like, you want

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Speaker 1: an employee that you have to pull back versus an

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Speaker 1: employee you have to push forward. And I think that

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Speaker 1: what L’Oreal does and they suss out in their way

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Speaker 1: of recruitment is that they find the people that you

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Speaker 1: don’t have to push forward.

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Speaker 2: And that’s really hard to pick up on a test.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to today’s episode of Great Commerce.

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Speaker 4: I’m Rachel Tippegraph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 3: And I’m Sarah Hofstetter, chairwoman of Profitero Plus.

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Speaker 4: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 4: in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah, when you

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Speaker 4: joined Profitero, at what point in your journey did you

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Speaker 4: start evaluating like hiring and onboarding?

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Speaker 3: That was one of the first things I did. It

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Speaker 3: was almost like reverse engineering. Like, how did these people

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Speaker 3: end up here? So when I met all of my

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Speaker 3: new employees, again, this was five and a half years ago.

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Speaker 3: The first thing was like, hey, why did you choose

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Speaker 3: to work here? Why do you stay working here? A

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Speaker 3: couple other questions, like, you know, what’s one thing you

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Speaker 3: would change, blah, blah, blah. But when I heard about like,

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Speaker 3: why did.

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Speaker 2: You come here?

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Speaker 3: There’s usually a question of, are you running from something

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Speaker 3: or are you running to something? I mean, you guys

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Speaker 3: are always growing.

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Speaker 2: So you’re always hiring.

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Speaker 3: What about you?

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Speaker 4: Well, we’ve gone through different evolutions. Like I once was

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Speaker 4: very involved, but now I really am only involved in

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Speaker 4: senior leadership team hiring. And based on the leaders that

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Speaker 4: you bring on, I think it changes some of the approach.

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Speaker 4: I think one of the things that I’ve experienced, though,

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Speaker 4: is the need for more consistency in the hiring approaches.

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Speaker 4: You can’t have one hiring culture for engineering and a

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Speaker 4: different hiring culture for commercial. But you also have to

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Speaker 4: balance the needs of each function because they’re different. But

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Speaker 4: I think what’s interesting is that you can tell a

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Speaker 4: lot about a company through the interview process.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: We are blessed to have a couple of fantastic people

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Speaker 3: on our team that bring the company values to the

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Speaker 3: interview process. And so before, whether it’s me or an

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Speaker 3: entry-level person is conducting an interview, they have already been

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Speaker 3: presented with the values and the ethos of the company

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Speaker 3: just through behaviors, just through behaviors. And think about the

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Speaker 3: people that we’ve had on the show and what their

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Speaker 3: pedigrees are. In some cases, you don’t even need to

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Speaker 3: look at their LinkedIn profile to know, oh, this one

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Speaker 3: came up through Pepsi, this one came up through P & G,

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Speaker 3: this one came up through Kraft, this one came up

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Speaker 3: through L’Oreal, this one’s ex-military, like, Yeah. It’s pervasive.

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Speaker 4: Well, we’re about to bring Bianca onto the show, who’s

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Speaker 4: at the Wella Company. Wella is a spinoff from Cody.

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Speaker 4: But if you go and look at Bianca’s LinkedIn, you

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Speaker 4: will see that she has a very deep L’Oreal discipline.

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Speaker 4: But she’s now working with people at Wella who come

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Speaker 4: from Cody and P & G as well as L’Oreal

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Speaker 4: and how all of that DNA is helping create the

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Speaker 4: new culture at Wella.

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Speaker 3: I think the alchemy is… really evident in the way

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Speaker 3: that she speaks. And it’s even more so in the

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Speaker 3: way that she leads. And so it’s exciting to hear

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Speaker 3: what it means to build your own culture by learning

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Speaker 3: from the building blocks of what you’ve come from.

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Speaker 4: We are very excited to have Bianca Bellori, Vice President

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Speaker 4: of Global E-Commerce at Wella Company onto the show. Hello.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for having me.

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Speaker 4: Very excited, especially because you are based in the West

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Speaker 4: Coast and you’re in a global role, which we don’t

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Speaker 4: often come across. So definitely interested to hear how you

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Speaker 4: manage your day. To kick it off, you and I

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Speaker 4: go way back because we met when you were at L’Oreal.

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Speaker 4: It’s interesting. We’ve had a bunch of guests on this

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Speaker 4: show that have either grown up at L’Oreal or Procter & Gamble.

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Speaker 4: And so what do you think it is about L’Oreal

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Speaker 4: that breeds so many leaders into the world?

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Speaker 2: That’s such a great question.

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Speaker 1: But I also want to start with saying it’s funny

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Speaker 1: because of the P & G and L’Oreal difference. I

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Speaker 1: remember specifically when I was graduating, both offices come to

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Speaker 1: your school.

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Speaker 2: I was graduating at McGill Business and they look to recruit.

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Speaker 1: And P & G’ s first thing you have to do

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Speaker 1: is a test, like a literal.

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Speaker 2: Sit down as a test. And I literally walked in

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Speaker 2: not realizing it was going to be a test.

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Speaker 1: And I walked out and I refused to complete it

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Speaker 1: because it was immediately kind of set the tone for

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Speaker 1: culture that I think is wildly different. And I think

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Speaker 1: that’s where I would start in terms of what L’Oreal is.

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Speaker 1: L’Oreal doesn’t give you a sandbox to work in.

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Speaker 2: They leave things very open to interpretation.

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Speaker 1: And so your ability to be able to step into

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Speaker 1: a role and kind of curate it to either what

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Speaker 1: your curiosity brings or to where you see growth is

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Speaker 1: probably one of the most interesting areas of the job.

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Speaker 1: But I think one of the reason why L’Oreal has

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Speaker 1: the ability to breed these great leaders is it’s.

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Speaker 2: Kind of like a pressure cooker in the best way.

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Speaker 1: Like you’re expected to think like a CMO, but execute

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Speaker 1: like a GM and deliver like an operator. And so

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Speaker 1: you have this really true end-to-end business ownership and P &

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Speaker 1: L ownership that you don’t get necessarily in old companies

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Speaker 1: versus roles that are a little bit more siloed. So

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Speaker 1: it’s not really all about the brand marketing, but it

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Speaker 1: kind of teaches you really early on to be super

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Speaker 1: obsessed with the business and the consumer so that you

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Speaker 1: have that marriage between the go-to-market and sort of how

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Speaker 1: you look at the business overall.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things I always say is that

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Speaker 2: it teaches you a.

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Speaker 1: Healthy level of paranoia So one of the things I

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Speaker 1: don’t know, and if this is maybe my interpretation of

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Speaker 1: the culture, but because the bar is so high, you’re

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Speaker 1: constantly wondering if you’ve missed something. And that could be

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Speaker 1: either in like a commercial strategy or in how you

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Speaker 1: build a brand or your innovation plan.

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Speaker 2: So you’re kind of always on your toes in a

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Speaker 2: weird way.

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Speaker 1: So you’re second guessing yourself in the most positive way

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Speaker 1: to make sure that you’re sort of adapting and learning.

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Speaker 2: And also like the way they build the org chart.

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Speaker 1: It’s like it teaches you about adaptability because they constantly

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Speaker 1: change the org. And so you’ll be in a role

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Speaker 1: for sometimes no longer than a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: And so that I think that skill kind of like

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Speaker 1: sharpens your instincts a little bit. But it’s only really

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Speaker 1: when you leave that you realize truly how rare it

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Speaker 1: is to be surrounded by people with such a high

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Speaker 1: level of.

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Speaker 2: Ambition and rigor.

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Speaker 1: If you live in the L’Oreal world and you can

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Speaker 1: be successful in it and you can appreciate for all

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Speaker 1: it’s worth, and when you leave, you know, it sets

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Speaker 1: you up for success because of all the things I mentioned.

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Speaker 2: But then you also, you miss things to a certain

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Speaker 2: extent as well.

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Speaker 4: And, you know, in environments like that, do you find

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Speaker 4: that you’re competitive with your colleagues?

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Speaker 2: Definitely.

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Speaker 4: Definitely.

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Speaker 2: It’s like the career Olympics, you know what I mean? Because.

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Speaker 1: first of all, like if you don’t want the job,

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Speaker 1: there’s a bunch of other people who do. And so

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Speaker 1: that’s like a healthy level of understanding that this is

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Speaker 1: a corporation and, you know, this isn’t a charity, but

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Speaker 1: then person next to you is just as ambitious as

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Speaker 1: you are. And so that rigor kind of like, it

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Speaker 1: promotes you. It’s like going to the gym with somebody

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Speaker 1: who really wants to work hard.

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Speaker 2: You’re going to lift heavy. You’re going to run further.

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Speaker 1: You’re going to do better, but it’s not, at least

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Speaker 1: in my experience, I never really had the negative connotation

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Speaker 1: that can sometimes come with competition because first we’re all

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Speaker 1: competitive against our literal competition in the market.

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Speaker 2: My husband and I both worked at L’Oreal. And so

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Speaker 2: we joke that like, this is actually not really a joke.

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Speaker 1: We used to go into people’s houses and if they

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Speaker 1: had like Pantene, we would empty it.

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Speaker 2: And bring them L’Oreal.

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Speaker 1: So there’s like a genuine competitive spirit. But first you

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Speaker 1: win against your competition in the market. And then you

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Speaker 1: win within L’Oreal, your brands versus the other brands. And

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Speaker 1: so it’s like this great motivator versus it being a negative.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, totally, totally it exists.

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Speaker 3: It’s fascinating because you talked about rigor and you also

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Speaker 3: talked about being on your toes and being flexible like that.

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Speaker 3: dynamic of like, you’ve got one job today, a different

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Speaker 3: job tomorrow. You’ve got a nice sandbox to play in,

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Speaker 3: which also includes other people’s sandboxes, as opposed to the

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Speaker 3: entrance exam for P & G. I was just talking

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Speaker 3: to a recent grad who got an interview at P &

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Speaker 3: G and she told me 23, 24, something like that.

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Speaker 3: And she said, I had to take a test. What

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Speaker 3: kind of crap is that? I don’t even need to

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Speaker 3: take a test to get into college anymore. And again,

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Speaker 3: we’ve had tremendous P & G alum on podcasts. And

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is just like, do

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Speaker 3: you have the right personality fit to work at either

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Speaker 3: of these? They both have their strengths, but what is yours?

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Speaker 3: And I think, I think, I don’t know if it

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Speaker 3: really unlocks because we don’t know each other very well yet,

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Speaker 3: yet being the operative word, the passion is that comes

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Speaker 3: from working at a L’Oreal, because you can’t just do

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Speaker 3: it on the fundamentals alone, right? Like you could bring

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Speaker 3: a high degree of velocity, passion, just more than the

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Speaker 3: stuff they taught you at McGill, right?

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Speaker 2: That’s right. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And somebody actually said this to me recently, like you

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Speaker 1: want an employee that you can, that you have to

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Speaker 1: pull back versus an employee you have to push forward.

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Speaker 1: And I think that What L’Oreal does and they suss

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Speaker 1: out in their way of recruitment is that they find

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Speaker 1: the people that you don’t have to push forward.

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Speaker 2: And that’s really hard to pick up on a test.

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Speaker 2: So I think that like actually the.

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Speaker 1: Marriage of like a P & G and a L’Oreal

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Speaker 1: person within an organization is really great because you do

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Speaker 1: need a certain level of like process and rigor that

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Speaker 1: comes with like expertise and ways of thinking and problem

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Speaker 1: solving mixed with somebody who has this sort of like

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Speaker 1: passion and drive. And I think the two combined are

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Speaker 1: actually quite lethal in the business world.

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Speaker 3: So how do you do that at Wella? Because this

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Speaker 3: is your playground, right? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, it’s great because it’s actually the perfect combo of

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people because you have P & G people,

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Speaker 1: you have Cody people.

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Speaker 2: And then actually now there’s quite a few L’Oreal people.

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Speaker 1: And then within the digital ecosystem of e-commerce, we have

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of the startup type of people

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Speaker 1: as well. So I actually think it’s a really nice

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Speaker 1: balance and how we approach things. When we have a

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Speaker 1: lot of L’Oreal people, I think you can see the

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Speaker 1: pace starts to pick up a little bit more. Since

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Speaker 1: I’ve started, when I’ve been surrounded by more L’Oreal people,

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Speaker 1: the pace is… We’re definitely shifting from less of like

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Speaker 1: discussion into like decisiveness and keeping things moving. More of

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Speaker 1: an appetite for failure, the fail fast type of vibe.

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Speaker 1: But it’s actually good to have both, especially within a

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Speaker 1: market like a pro market, because it’s not… The pro

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Speaker 1: business is not as dynamic as a consumer business. And

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Speaker 1: so you actually need a little bit more of that, like, tenure,

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Speaker 1: if you will, that experience, because it’s so rooted in

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Speaker 1: community and it’s so rooted in education and it’s rooted

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Speaker 1: in relationships.

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Speaker 2: And not that it’s not dynamic.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 1: It’s just it’s not as dynamic as, you know, the

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Speaker 1: fact that TikTok shop didn’t exist a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: And now it’s like a top three retailer in the U.S.,

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Speaker 1: That doesn’t happen in the pro business. So I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, that balance is really important and it’s good

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Speaker 1: because we challenge norms on the pro side, but we

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Speaker 1: also bring a lot of really great stability and strategic

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Speaker 1: ways of thinking on the other side.

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Speaker 4: Bianca, just for our listeners, can you define pro?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So pro is like, as this construct is a

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Speaker 2: B2B business. So who we serve.

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Speaker 1: So serving the consumers, the people that, well, one, all

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Speaker 1: of us are consumers. Probably most people who are listening

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Speaker 1: to this will be consumers. So it’s a self-selection versus

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Speaker 1: a pro is more of a B2B construct, meaning you know,

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Speaker 1: you are servicing the consumer. So the way we kind

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Speaker 1: of think about it is like the consumer is using

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Speaker 1: something on themselves versus the pro using something on a consumer.

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Speaker 2: So you are a licensed professional, you work.

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Speaker 1: In a salon or you work in, you know, like

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Speaker 1: a nail salon, you’re sort of classically trained, you have

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Speaker 1: a license and it’s either from a hair color perspective

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Speaker 1: or a nail perspective.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for that.

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Speaker 2: Of course.

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Speaker 4: So you just mentioned TikTok shop now in the consumer

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Speaker 4: world is essentially the number three retailer slash marketplace. When

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Speaker 4: you and I met at L’Oreal, a huge area of

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Speaker 4: your focus was direct-to-consumer. Fast forward, it’s the year 2025.

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Speaker 4: The ecosystem has evolved. Is D2C dead?

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: This is so funny because people keep asking me this,

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Speaker 1: and I don’t know when this ever became a part

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Speaker 1: of the conversation. No, I don’t think D2C is dead

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Speaker 1: by any means. I just think it’s no longer the

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Speaker 1: hero channel based on what we saw as explosive growth,

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Speaker 1: like 2016, 15, and onwards.

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Speaker 2: Especially like an indie beauty. I don’t think it’s dead.

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Speaker 1: It’s just not like the number one channel that we,

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Speaker 1: that most brands think that they have to do. It’s,

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Speaker 1: I think it’s evolved to like more of a brand

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Speaker 1: building lab than it is like purely an e-commerce channel.

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Speaker 1: So it’s like, I look at it more of a

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Speaker 1: loyalty engine versus an e-com storefront. And the reason why

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Speaker 1: I believe it’s actually more important now, but just how

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Speaker 1: you would measure it would be different is because Now

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Speaker 1: we have obviously the importance of first party data. It’s

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Speaker 1: also where you can, you know, test a lot of

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Speaker 1: your innovation. And I think what we’re seeing just with

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Speaker 1: the emergence of social in general is that direct consumer

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Speaker 1: feedback is something you’ll just never get elsewhere. It’s more

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Speaker 1: that like what I encourage everyone to do is to

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Speaker 1: think of it just. differently so like while the economics

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Speaker 1: are tough but the insights and the speed to market

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Speaker 1: that you get even the brand storytelling you can have

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Speaker 1: is just so invaluable so when we look to build

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Speaker 1: e-commerce like.

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Speaker 2: When we want to like define the channels.

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Speaker 1: You don’t look at your d2c as like the definition

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Speaker 1: of your revenue builder you know if you start that

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Speaker 1: way it can be but i think more legacy brands

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Speaker 1: still have a right to play within d2c but just

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Speaker 1: really honing in on what the role is of that

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Speaker 1: to your business is really important. When you conflate it

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Speaker 1: with thinking it’s going to be your next best revenue driver,

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Speaker 1: I think that’s where things get a little bit confusing.

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Speaker 4: To your question of when did this narrative come to life?

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Speaker 4: I think it was a handful of things, but one,

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Speaker 4: just investors believing that it was the promised land and

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Speaker 4: then not seeing the return in the last decade. And

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Speaker 4: then the Nike debacle.

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Speaker 2: That’s true.

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Speaker 4: I think led to this sort of new narrative.

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Speaker 2: Is D2C dead?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It’s true.

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Speaker 1: And I see it myself too. I’m still an advisor

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Speaker 1: for some D2C first brands. I mean, we saw this

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Speaker 1: kind of with Rode, right? Where they’re D2C, but they

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Speaker 1: have this deal already struck with Sephora.

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Speaker 2: And I think that’s where we’re so much.

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Speaker 1: More sophisticated now in our learnings of what D2C meant

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Speaker 1: then versus what it means now.

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Speaker 2: And I think it’s a proof of concept.

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Speaker 1: You can validate that there’s a consumer out there that

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Speaker 1: wants your product, and then you can validate that you

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Speaker 1: have ability to retain them. entertain them, edutain them and

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Speaker 1: do all the things that keeps them in your sort

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Speaker 1: of orbit. But then the real scale comes from leaving DTC.

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Speaker 1: I think outside of maybe like a neutrophil of the world,

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Speaker 1: the real big, big DTC players are few and far between,

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Speaker 1: but you see that magic happen when they find a

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Speaker 1: retail partner and that’s where the scale really hits. So

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Speaker 1: that’s why it’s interesting. And I don’t want the narrative

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Speaker 1: to die because I believe so much in DTC.

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Speaker 3: I want to kind of combine two different parts of

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Speaker 3: the conversation because you asked a question, Rachel asked a

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Speaker 3: question about whether or not DTC is dead. and you

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Speaker 3: started alluding to pro. Is there a D2P?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Because of the education that’s necessary for the technicians or

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Speaker 3: the people that work in the salons. What’s the role

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Speaker 3: of D2P there?

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Speaker 2: It’s actually pretty big. I mean, at least in our business,

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Speaker 2: and I know it to be true.

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Speaker 1: So the acquisition vehicle is very different on a B2B

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Speaker 1: side or like a you know, direct to pro on

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Speaker 1: a consumer side, you can likely acquire a new customer

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Speaker 1: with the right product message and content on the right channel.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: And like that testing and learning takes time and then

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Speaker 1: you get the magic land and then, you know, it’s

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Speaker 1: off to the races on the pro side. You have

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Speaker 1: to imagine that today, like if you’re talking about getting

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Speaker 1: pros that are stylists that are being trained out of

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Speaker 1: schools and even then what they’re already learning on a

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Speaker 1: hair color within that school, you have to get someone

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Speaker 1: to completely change everything that they’re using every single day.

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Speaker 2: So I don’t know if you, if you guys color.

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Speaker 1: Your hair, but walking into a salon and getting them

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Speaker 1: to change their color is not like an acquisition that

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Speaker 1: works off of just great content and a really nice

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Speaker 1: ad set. It requires a human being usually giving you

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Speaker 1: enough education and confidence that the change is going to

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Speaker 1: be valuable to your business as a salon owner and

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Speaker 1: and to the people you serve from a result. So

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Speaker 1: the acquisition vehicle is different, but the like retention and

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Speaker 1: nourishing portion, I think operates very similar to a DTC,

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Speaker 1: just like every consumer, whether you’re an independent stylist or

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Speaker 1: you own a salon, you know, you look at your

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Speaker 1: roster of appointments for the coming up weeks. You know,

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Speaker 1: you need to get your hair color and the things

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Speaker 1: that you need for those appointments. Obviously it’s a little

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Speaker 1: bit different in nail because it’s a bit more dynamic,

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Speaker 1: but in color, you usually have routine people that have

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Speaker 1: the same color. You want to get that as fast

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Speaker 1: as possible and as easy as possible and as quick

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Speaker 1: as possible.

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Speaker 2: So within that world, you have to have e-comm.

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Speaker 1: So we do, we have, Wella has a B2B platform

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Speaker 1: where independent stylists who find us can buy Wella, all

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Speaker 1: Wella brands off of there. And then also our, you know,

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Speaker 1: our field sales organization’s As we work to acquire new salons,

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Speaker 1: they can place orders directly on a B2B platform. So

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Speaker 1: it’s in that experience, you have the capability to book

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Speaker 1: your education. You have the capability to do so much more,

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Speaker 1: you know, get a menu, services menu, speak directly to agents.

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Speaker 1: Same thing that in the traditional e-com world, we have CRM,

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Speaker 1: which gives you great long form blog content, really exciting offers,

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Speaker 1: edutainment and things like that.

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Speaker 2: So it still exists the same way. It’s just how

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Speaker 2: you get them into the funnel that’s super different.

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Speaker 3: Do you find at all that they, especially with maybe

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Speaker 3: a smaller or newer salon or even a lot of

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Speaker 3: people who ended up going freelance and working out of

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Speaker 3: their basement doing color, especially post-COVID, do you find that

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Speaker 3: you have fluidity between the consumer business and the pro business?

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Speaker 3: Do people actually… Do stylists start on Amazon, test you

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Speaker 3: out there, and then become more of a pro customer?

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Speaker 3: Does that ever happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, you can’t buy any of our pro items as

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Speaker 2: a consumer. Got it.

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Speaker 1: So we look at it as like a, we have

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Speaker 1: to do two things at once as a company, which

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Speaker 1: is We have to build the brands within our consumers.

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Speaker 1: So from a mindset perspective, they’re thinking about our brand.

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Speaker 1: And so maybe they’re walking into the salon and saying like,

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Speaker 1: do you have this well of color? Or they’re coming

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Speaker 1: in with a look that they want. So there’s like

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Speaker 1: the demand push and then there’s the generation of the

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Speaker 1: salon itself carrying our items. And then You know, especially

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Speaker 1: using it from like a care perspective, because color, most

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Speaker 1: people go in pretty ignorantly.

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Speaker 2: No one’s asking specifically for that color. So I think

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Speaker 2: there’s a work to be done there.

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Speaker 1: But then topically, if you walk out with what you

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Speaker 1: know you walk out with, which is great hair, if

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Speaker 1: you can find that at home, which you can, you

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Speaker 1: have that push pull. So it’s not necessarily like the discoverability,

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Speaker 1: I think, comes more from the community, comes more from

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Speaker 1: the performance, comes from more who’s setting the trends and

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Speaker 1: who’s really helping the salons build their business.

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Speaker 4: So here you are in this global role. You can

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Speaker 4: see everything that’s happening across professional businesses as well as

424
00:18:49,820 –> 00:18:53,669
Speaker 4: consumer businesses. You also live in L.A., which at one

425
00:18:53,750 –> 00:18:57,170
Speaker 4: point was considered like the promised land of indie beauty.

426
00:18:57,210 –> 00:18:57,750
Speaker 2: The mega.

427
00:18:57,990 –> 00:19:00,330
Speaker 4: And I know there’s some debate whether that’s true or

428
00:19:00,369 –> 00:19:00,750
Speaker 4: not anymore.

429
00:19:00,770 –> 00:19:01,010
Speaker 3: Yeah.

430
00:19:01,109 –> 00:19:05,350
Speaker 4: We have found that beauty usually leads the trends. And

431
00:19:05,450 –> 00:19:08,690
Speaker 4: so since you’re on the front lines, what are some

432
00:19:08,710 –> 00:19:11,130
Speaker 4: of the global consumer trends that you think are gonna

433
00:19:11,290 –> 00:19:13,750
Speaker 4: impact other categories over the next three years?

434
00:19:14,430 –> 00:19:16,730
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what a question.

435
00:19:16,750 –> 00:19:20,790
Speaker 1: I mean, I think every time I see one category growing,

436
00:19:21,030 –> 00:19:22,730
Speaker 1: you just know that the next one’s gonna come.

437
00:19:22,750 –> 00:19:24,530
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we saw that a little bit with.

438
00:19:24,470 –> 00:19:27,129
Speaker 1: When makeup was just so big for so long that

439
00:19:27,170 –> 00:19:29,719
Speaker 1: skincare was the fast, what goes on must come off

440
00:19:29,780 –> 00:19:32,460
Speaker 1: eventually type of thing. And so I think we’re seeing

441
00:19:32,480 –> 00:19:35,609
Speaker 1: that now transition into all of beauty. And so that’s

442
00:19:35,630 –> 00:19:37,510
Speaker 1: why I think hair is having such a moment now.

443
00:19:37,590 –> 00:19:40,540
Speaker 1: But one of the things across everything that I’m noticing

444
00:19:40,820 –> 00:19:43,380
Speaker 1: is that there’s this like pro grade at home that

445
00:19:43,420 –> 00:19:46,230
Speaker 1: is seemingly like emerging more and more. So there’s like

446
00:19:46,270 –> 00:19:48,630
Speaker 1: consumers want that salon level. And again, I don’t just

447
00:19:48,670 –> 00:19:50,899
Speaker 1: mean like hair. I also mean what happens with the

448
00:19:50,920 –> 00:19:53,460
Speaker 1: nail salons and scalp and tools.

449
00:19:53,160 –> 00:19:54,020
Speaker 2: And everything like that.

450
00:19:54,080 –> 00:19:56,620
Speaker 1: So it’s like you’re wanting a little bit more salon performance,

451
00:19:56,640 –> 00:19:59,109
Speaker 1: but in your bathroom, I guess, which is why I

452
00:19:59,130 –> 00:20:01,889
Speaker 1: think indie skincare is going to be more challenged, but

453
00:20:01,910 –> 00:20:04,390
Speaker 1: you’re going to see more pro grade skincare becoming something

454
00:20:04,410 –> 00:20:05,030
Speaker 1: in the forefront.

455
00:20:05,410 –> 00:20:07,109
Speaker 2: And I think that’s going to translate to the scalp,

456
00:20:07,150 –> 00:20:10,300
Speaker 2: just like how everything goes across the body. as well.

457
00:20:10,320 –> 00:20:15,780
Speaker 1: I think also this is maybe less of a specific trend, but.

458
00:20:15,700 –> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 2: I think time is compressing.

459
00:20:17,580 –> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 1: So I feel like what used to be quarterly trends

460
00:20:21,119 –> 00:20:24,889
Speaker 1: are becoming now much faster. And so I’m interested to

461
00:20:24,950 –> 00:20:26,990
Speaker 1: see how that plays into beauty and what that does

462
00:20:27,030 –> 00:20:30,190
Speaker 1: to the speed to innovation and the speed to adaptability

463
00:20:30,230 –> 00:20:33,690
Speaker 1: for the brands. I also think that social is having

464
00:20:33,730 –> 00:20:38,020
Speaker 1: such an impact on brands that I think education is

465
00:20:38,040 –> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: going to become more of a vehicle.

466
00:20:41,270 –> 00:20:42,870
Speaker 2: For consumers because it’s a bit of both, right?

467
00:20:42,910 –> 00:20:46,890
Speaker 1: Like with AI emergence, people becoming smarter and they’re looking

468
00:20:46,910 –> 00:20:49,490
Speaker 1: to AI to help figure out what products they should buy.

469
00:20:49,550 –> 00:20:52,950
Speaker 1: So as a result, their lens of how they evaluate

470
00:20:52,970 –> 00:20:54,929
Speaker 1: now is no longer just like, oh, do I see

471
00:20:54,950 –> 00:20:57,130
Speaker 1: an influencer posting it? It’s everywhere, but it’s also like

472
00:20:57,430 –> 00:20:59,629
Speaker 1: they have the ability to analyze whether what you’re offering

473
00:20:59,670 –> 00:21:00,230
Speaker 1: is really good.

474
00:21:00,970 –> 00:21:02,450
Speaker 2: So I think that education is going to be a

475
00:21:02,510 –> 00:21:03,709
Speaker 2: huge portion of it.

476
00:21:03,859 –> 00:21:06,010
Speaker 1: And I guess it’s kind of linked, but I’m also

477
00:21:06,030 –> 00:21:08,460
Speaker 1: thinking that performance is going to be super important.

478
00:21:08,680 –> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 2: So cool packaging was a thing at one point.

479
00:21:12,880 –> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: I also think there was a point where, and it

480
00:21:14,420 –> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 1: still is like clean is still important, but now performance,

481
00:21:18,119 –> 00:21:20,420
Speaker 1: people want to see results. They’re going to do the analysis,

482
00:21:20,440 –> 00:21:23,209
Speaker 1: like I said beforehand. So it’s like results first, but

483
00:21:23,230 –> 00:21:25,989
Speaker 1: then they actually expect both at the same time, you know,

484
00:21:26,030 –> 00:21:27,650
Speaker 1: versus just the beginning was just clean.

485
00:21:28,630 –> 00:21:30,490
Speaker 4: I love that articulation. I thought where you’re going with

486
00:21:30,510 –> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 4: time being compressed with longevity, but I think that goes along.

487
00:21:34,720 –> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 4: with the theme of performance.

488
00:21:36,300 –> 00:21:37,020
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

489
00:21:37,040 –> 00:21:39,980
Speaker 1: I mean, coming from past three years in supplements, I

490
00:21:40,000 –> 00:21:43,500
Speaker 1: think longevity is definitely a part of everybody’s dialogue from

491
00:21:43,540 –> 00:21:46,300
Speaker 1: like why strength training has become so big, you know,

492
00:21:46,320 –> 00:21:49,270
Speaker 1: especially among women to like the boom in supplements. And

493
00:21:49,290 –> 00:21:52,030
Speaker 1: I think scalp care is probably the closest thing. I

494
00:21:52,290 –> 00:21:55,950
Speaker 1: think beauty is in a touch on for longevity, just

495
00:21:55,990 –> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: given how porous our scalp is and how important it

496
00:22:00,040 –> 00:22:03,899
Speaker 1: is to maintain a healthy mitochondria inside and outside. So

497
00:22:04,320 –> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: I think actually it’s probably the closest thing to longevity

498
00:22:06,440 –> 00:22:08,020
Speaker 1: is going to be what we do to treat our scalp.

499
00:22:08,160 –> 00:22:09,940
Speaker 4: You’re making me self-conscious about my scalp.

500
00:22:09,960 –> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 2: Oh my God, me too.

501
00:22:10,660 –> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 4: I gotta go get it checked.

502
00:22:11,740 –> 00:22:13,810
Speaker 2: Don’t worry, me too. I feel that way even though

503
00:22:13,830 –> 00:22:14,670
Speaker 2: I work in the industry.

504
00:22:15,390 –> 00:22:18,370
Speaker 4: Well, Bianca, we got to ask you our famous last question,

505
00:22:18,470 –> 00:22:20,650
Speaker 4: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

506
00:22:20,810 –> 00:22:21,990
Speaker 2: You mean outside of having kids?

507
00:22:23,310 –> 00:22:25,210
Speaker 1: I think the bravest thing I ever did was actually

508
00:22:25,270 –> 00:22:29,530
Speaker 1: leave L’Oreal. And I say that because, you know, it

509
00:22:29,609 –> 00:22:33,169
Speaker 1: creates scrappiness, but within a safety net. And then when

510
00:22:33,190 –> 00:22:35,770
Speaker 1: you leave something like that to go to a startup,

511
00:22:36,490 –> 00:22:39,490
Speaker 1: there is no safety net and you’re kind of forced

512
00:22:39,530 –> 00:22:43,470
Speaker 1: to start something from a blank page. And you don’t

513
00:22:43,490 –> 00:22:45,250
Speaker 1: really know what you don’t know when you leave a

514
00:22:45,270 –> 00:22:47,290
Speaker 1: big company to go to a startup. And it’s great when,

515
00:22:48,010 –> 00:22:50,670
Speaker 1: you know, P venture cap or founders take risks on

516
00:22:50,790 –> 00:22:52,330
Speaker 1: people that come from these big companies.

517
00:22:53,260 –> 00:22:54,859
Speaker 2: But you kind of have to fake it till you

518
00:22:54,900 –> 00:22:56,380
Speaker 2: make it. I remember when I started in my first

519
00:22:56,420 –> 00:22:58,699
Speaker 2: startup after I left L’Oreal, they were like, hey, we

520
00:22:58,720 –> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: need you.

521
00:22:59,080 –> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: To give us like our e-comm daily forecast. And I

522
00:23:02,300 –> 00:23:04,060
Speaker 1: didn’t even know what Google Analytics was at the time.

523
00:23:04,080 –> 00:23:06,659
Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, I’ll figure this out.

524
00:23:06,720 –> 00:23:07,220
Speaker 2: No worries.

525
00:23:07,740 –> 00:23:10,350
Speaker 1: So I remember being like pretty, pretty nervous at the time.

526
00:23:10,380 –> 00:23:11,730
Speaker 1: So it sort of forced me to let go of

527
00:23:11,810 –> 00:23:14,850
Speaker 1: perfection and sort of build in real time. So I

528
00:23:14,869 –> 00:23:17,250
Speaker 1: probably think that was the bravest thing I’ve ever done,

529
00:23:17,270 –> 00:23:17,609
Speaker 1: at least on.

530
00:23:17,590 –> 00:23:18,030
Speaker 2: The work front.

531
00:23:18,440 –> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 4: Love that as an answer. Great bookend to the episode.

532
00:23:21,160 –> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 4: That was not planned.

533
00:23:22,280 –> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 2: No, that was not planned. That’s true.

534
00:23:24,220 –> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 4: And Bianca, you’re a wealth of knowledge. So everyone, make

535
00:23:27,119 –> 00:23:29,859
Speaker 4: sure you go follow her on LinkedIn. See what is

536
00:23:29,920 –> 00:23:33,340
Speaker 4: happening at Wella because there are exciting changes ahead.

537
00:23:33,640 –> 00:23:35,970
Speaker 2: Amazing. Thank you both for having me. This was the

538
00:23:36,010 –> 00:23:37,409
Speaker 2: highlight of my week. There’s no question.

539
00:23:39,920 –> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 4: If you like what you heard and you want to

540
00:23:41,460 –> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 4: hear from another great leader at the Wella company, go

541
00:23:45,260 –> 00:23:48,220
Speaker 4: check out an episode we did with the chief digital officer,

542
00:23:48,300 –> 00:23:51,430
Speaker 4: Chris Chesborough. And if you want to hear from other

543
00:23:51,670 –> 00:23:55,590
Speaker 4: former L’Oreal execs, you can go check out an episode

544
00:23:55,630 –> 00:23:58,469
Speaker 4: we did earlier this year with Natalie when she was

545
00:23:58,490 –> 00:24:02,070
Speaker 4: the president of L’Oreal’s consumer products. And now she’s at Halion.

546
00:24:02,650 –> 00:24:04,730
Speaker 4: If you like what you heard, tell a friend, share

547
00:24:04,780 –> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 4: on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening.

548
00:24:23,450 –> 00:24:27,430
Speaker 3: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

549
00:24:27,450 –> 00:24:30,210
Speaker 3: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

550
00:24:30,270 –> 00:24:33,710
Speaker 3: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

551
00:24:33,750 –> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 3: this incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once. As

552
00:24:37,480 –> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 3: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

553
00:24:39,859 –> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 3: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

554
00:24:43,180 –> 00:24:46,449
Speaker 3: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

555
00:24:46,490 –> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 3: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

556
00:24:49,380 –> 00:24:50,940
Speaker 3: will challenge your way of thinking.

557
00:24:51,040 –> 00:24:53,979
Speaker 2: Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts.

558
00:24:54,330 –> 00:24:57,129
Speaker 3: New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to

559
00:24:57,190 –> 00:24:57,690
Speaker 3: see you there.