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Speaker 1: And if we can find that middle ground where it

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Speaker 1: drives their strategy and drives our strategy, it’s really easy.

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Speaker 1: We’re not some big, scary buyer that’s hidden behind a wall. Like,

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Speaker 1: let’s just sit down and collaborate and solve the consumer

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Speaker 1: problems together. I mean, that’s really what it boils down to.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like so many suppliers miss that. They

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Speaker 1: come in and they just push their agenda and their

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Speaker 1: ideas and what they.

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Speaker 2: Want to do.

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Speaker 1: And they don’t take the time to listen and hear

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Speaker 1: what total wine strategy is. And if they would listen

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Speaker 1: and pay attention first, and there are some amazing partners

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Speaker 1: that do this, then we can find that overlap and

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Speaker 1: that Venn diagram and we can sell more wine together.

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Speaker 1: It’s really not that complicated.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 4: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

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Speaker 4: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Free of Commerce.

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Speaker 4: Sarah, would you rather be an insider or an outsider?

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Speaker 3: You asked me the most inane questions to start with.

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Speaker 3: No context whatsoever. Can you build on this a little bit?

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Speaker 4: When it comes to working within business, would you rather

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Speaker 4: have deep expertise in a particular category or have breadth

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Speaker 4: of knowledge? in a wide range of categories. What do

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Speaker 4: you think makes you a better business person?

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Speaker 3: I think what makes me a better business person is

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Speaker 3: the fact that I’ve got the broad as kind of

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Speaker 3: more of like an expected, but I think what differentiates

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Speaker 3: is the deep, which is frankly why I agreed to

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Speaker 3: start this podcast with you. You know, I knew how

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Speaker 3: to lead in disruptive change. I’ve done that before, but

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Speaker 3: you can’t lead in disruptive change until you actually understand

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Speaker 3: what’s happening, whether it’s search or social commerce, Soon AI.

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Speaker 3: And if you don’t have that, then frankly, you don’t

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Speaker 3: really stand out. And I don’t really know what value

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Speaker 3: you’re bringing. What about yourself?

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Speaker 4: Well, I had my first experience with this recently. So,

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Speaker 4: I mean, we all know I’ve essentially done one thing

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Speaker 4: in my life, which is operate at the intersection of

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Speaker 4: media and commerce. But I now serve on a public

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Speaker 4: board of a restaurant group called First Watch. And I

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Speaker 4: attended my first board meeting last week. And I have

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Speaker 4: no experience in the restaurant industry. So they did not

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Speaker 4: bring me on for that. But I have deep experience

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Speaker 4: in obviously modern day brand building and customer acquisition. And

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Speaker 4: so it was the first time where I realized that

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Speaker 4: I could take my deep expertise in one arena and

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Speaker 4: bring it to adjacent categories and have quite an impact

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Speaker 4: by Only saying a handful of things.

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Speaker 3: Well, welcome to board membership. Conversation for another podcast. But

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Speaker 3: I do think that that’s a big part of this

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Speaker 3: is recognizing that the superpower that got you into one

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Speaker 3: job or that made you successful in one may not

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Speaker 3: be the superpower that you end up applying to other things.

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Speaker 3: It’s actually one of the things I love the most

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Speaker 3: about actually board work is, you know, when I’m sitting

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Speaker 3: in the Campbell’s board, nobody’s asking me questions about commerce

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Speaker 3: or social or marketing. It’s about disruption. It’s about when

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Speaker 3: do you know that something is actually worth paying attention to,

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Speaker 3: having that spidey sense on those kinds of things. It’s

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Speaker 3: asking questions as a former business owner. It’s pulling on

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Speaker 3: strengths that you accumulated, not necessarily intentionally, but certainly as

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Speaker 3: a byproduct of the things that you’re doing. And that’s

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Speaker 3: probably why it takes a while to become a board member,

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Speaker 3: because it is about the collective experiences. I’m so happy

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Speaker 3: you’re doing this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it was awesome. We’ll have to catch up

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Speaker 4: separately about it. But regardless, I think it’s interesting. I

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Speaker 4: was actually very surprised to hear this. But Total Wine,

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Speaker 4: which is arguably one of the largest players in Bev

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Speaker 4: Alk retail, is growing while a lot of the brands

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Speaker 4: that they sell are struggling. And so you have to

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Speaker 4: ask the question, what’s going on at Total Wine?

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Speaker 3: I think there’s a number of trends afoot, and we’re

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Speaker 3: going to hear a lot more from Brian about this.

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Speaker 3: But yes, having that conversation with Brian and hearing like basically,

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Speaker 3: you know, everything is rainbows and unicorns and then coming

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Speaker 3: out of Cagney, listening to a couple of the Bevel

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Speaker 3: guys citing the need to diversify, reduce, you know, outlook,

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Speaker 3: things like that. It does seem counterintuitive. But in the

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Speaker 3: same way that I think, you know, large CPGs are

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Speaker 3: getting disrupted by these startups who are just so narrowly

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Speaker 3: focused and not burdened by their scale. I think Total

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Speaker 3: Wine has a similar thing saying we’re going to stay

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Speaker 3: narrowly focused and figure out how to find our edge

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Speaker 3: and find our space. Brian unpacks it. But it’s also

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Speaker 3: interesting looking at who Brian is as an individual because

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Speaker 3: he also is not cut from the same cloth as

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Speaker 3: everybody else.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he didn’t grow up in this space. And I

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Speaker 4: think that’s what makes this conversation so fascinating. So let’s

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Speaker 4: bring Brian onto the show.

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Speaker 3: Today, we are happy to have Brian Gelb, Senior VP

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Speaker 3: of Wine and Concierge at Total Wine & More. Brian,

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Speaker 3: it’s been a while. I’ve been trying to get you on.

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Speaker 3: I’m so glad you agreed to come.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. It’s exciting to be here.

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Speaker 3: We go way back, but one thing I learned in

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Speaker 3: preparation for this episode is your military background, which is

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Speaker 3: very similar to a lot of our mutual friends and

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Speaker 3: many Brave Commerce alumni. So first of all, let me

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Speaker 3: start with thank you for your service, because gosh, that’s

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Speaker 3: pretty admirable to have done it. And that’s just incredibly special.

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Speaker 3: And I hope that others give you that appreciation whenever

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Speaker 3: they find out that you have that background. One of

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Speaker 3: the things that you talked about was how military officers

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Speaker 3: have an advantage in business. And what do you think

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Speaker 3: that you’ve gained that maybe others may never learn without

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Speaker 3: having had that experience?

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you for thanking me. I

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Speaker 1: never quite know how to respond to when people thank you.

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Speaker 5: Don’t say my pleasure.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don’t know.

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Speaker 5: My pleasure. Is that the right phrase?

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Speaker 1: You never know how to respond because when you serve,

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Speaker 1: you don’t really think of it as you’re doing it

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Speaker 1: on behalf of other people, you’re doing something, you know,

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Speaker 1: for like the greater good and for, you know, cause

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Speaker 1: you believe in the core values of our, you know,

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Speaker 1: our country and our constitution. So it’s always like a little,

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Speaker 1: you never quite know how to reply to that.

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Speaker 3: Should we say something else to you instead? Is that like,

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Speaker 3: should we create a new, a new thing?

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Speaker 5: No, no, I like it. I think it’s like, it’s

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Speaker 5: probably interesting to talk about. Cause it’s kind of like that.

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Speaker 1: Awkwardness is like every time someone says it to me,

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Speaker 1: it’s always like, I always feel that you never quite

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Speaker 1: know how to reply.

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Speaker 3: I once said that to somebody who was boarding in

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Speaker 3: front of me on, on an airline. I said, thank

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Speaker 3: you for your service. And it’s like, yeah, it was nothing.

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Speaker 5: It’s my job. You know, it’s what you do.

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Speaker 1: You show up, you do the military thing, but it’s

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Speaker 1: going back to your question on, you know, why military

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Speaker 1: officers and, you know, what they bring to business. I

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Speaker 1: think the thing that’s really interesting, and I don’t know

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Speaker 1: that you really appreciate it if you haven’t gone through

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Speaker 1: that background is, you know, here you are as a

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Speaker 1: young military officer, 22, 23 years old, and you’re just

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Speaker 1: put in charge of people, situations, you Thankfully, I was

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Speaker 1: never in direct combat fire, but a lot of military

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Speaker 1: officers are. And you’re just expected to lead from day one.

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Speaker 1: And when you come into the business world, I think

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Speaker 1: so many people are looking for direction, looking for guidance.

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Speaker 1: And with a military background, you’re never really given that

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Speaker 1: direction or guidance. You’re given a big picture and you’re said, hey,

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Speaker 1: go do this, make it happen. But you’re never given

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Speaker 1: any specific details on how to actually make it happen.

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Speaker 5: And you rely on your trainings.

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Speaker 1: And so it creates like an extreme sense of what

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Speaker 1: I would say is like ownership and initiative. I think that’s,

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Speaker 1: you know, what’s missing if you don’t come from the

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Speaker 1: military background is you may not have that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think there’s a lot of people that, you know,

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Speaker 1: or maybe serial entrepreneurs that really they have ownership and

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Speaker 1: that initiative and drive. But a lot of people that

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Speaker 1: just kind of grow up working for companies don’t really

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Speaker 1: have that. extreme sense of ownership. And I think there’s

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Speaker 1: actually a strong correlation between a lot of entrepreneurs and

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Speaker 1: people with military background because of it. And I think ultimately,

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Speaker 1: sometimes that can be the downfall of military officers when

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Speaker 1: they come into companies because they do have that ownership

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Speaker 1: and they’re really maybe perceived as being aggressive and a little.

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Speaker 5: Bit reckless at times. But the idea is.

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Speaker 1: That they want to charge that hill and make things

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Speaker 1: happen and move things forward and typically aren’t looking for

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Speaker 1: permission or guidance. They’re really just going to make things happen.

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Speaker 1: And the What they expect out of their leaders and

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Speaker 1: their managers is that if they’re getting out of line,

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Speaker 1: how do they get corrected and get put back in

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Speaker 1: line quickly? Otherwise, they’re going to keep going without really

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Speaker 1: any real guardrails. That can be the downside to hiring

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Speaker 1: military veterans.

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Speaker 4: How do you think you can manufacture that sense of accountability?

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Speaker 4: So as an entrepreneur, and I’ve been doing a lot

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Speaker 4: of reflection, my company was acquired essentially 45 days ago.

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Speaker 5: And the prize.

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Speaker 4: Is what drove you every single day, the potential opportunity

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Speaker 4: on the other side to build something that had significant

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Speaker 4: value for all shareholders. In the military, it’s life and death.

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Speaker 4: So if you grow up, for example, just working for

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Speaker 4: a company, how do you think you can manufacture that

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Speaker 4: sense of accountability?

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Speaker 5: That’s a great question.

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Speaker 1: I think it comes down to the values you embed

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Speaker 1: in the organization and then how you lead those people.

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Speaker 1: And I’m a big believer in And this is pretty

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Speaker 1: common actually in the submarine force where I came from,

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Speaker 1: what’s called like intent-based leadership. And so anytime somebody brings

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Speaker 1: me a problem, I’m always like, well, what do you

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Speaker 1: want to do? And then they kind of state some

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Speaker 1: facts or whatever.

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Speaker 5: And I say, well, why do you think that? What’s

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Speaker 5: your reason? Explain your logic to me. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now I understand why. Well, what will that accomplish? What

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Speaker 1: are the watchouts? What are the things that you’re concerned about?

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Speaker 1: And I just ask lots.

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Speaker 5: Of kind of probing questions.

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Speaker 1: And It forces people to answer all those questions and

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Speaker 1: think through their logic. Then we arrive at the end

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Speaker 1: and say, okay, I’m aligned with your decision.

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Speaker 5: Let’s go do it.

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Speaker 1: If I’m not aligned with their decision, that comes out

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Speaker 1: in the debate, right? We say, well, it’s interesting. You

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Speaker 1: think that’s the biggest risk. Whereas I think this is

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Speaker 1: the biggest risk. Let’s talk through that and we can

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Speaker 1: debate which is a bigger risk as an example. And,

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Speaker 1: you know, you do that once with someone, they, okay,

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Speaker 1: they get it. The second time they come back, maybe

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Speaker 1: you have to go through that again, but probably at

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Speaker 1: a lesser scale because they’re a And now when you

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Speaker 1: get to the point where you’ve been working with people

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Speaker 1: and you have direct reports that you work with for

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Speaker 1: six months a year, it becomes ingrained. They’re like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I know when I go in to see Brian, I

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Speaker 1: can’t just come in and state a problem. I need

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Speaker 1: to come in and say, what is the challenge? What

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Speaker 1: do I want to go do about it? What are

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Speaker 1: my reasons for doing it?

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Speaker 5: What’s my logic?

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Speaker 1: And it forces them to have that dialogue. And they

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Speaker 1: would say, okay, here’s the situation. Here are three choices.

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Speaker 1: Here’s all the risks involved. I believe this is the

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Speaker 1: best decision because of X, Y, and Z.

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Speaker 5: What do you think? And I’ll say, great.

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Speaker 1: Your logic is super sound. I’m 100% aligned with what

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Speaker 1: you want to do.

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Speaker 5: Go do it. And really what that.

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Speaker 1: Does, that logic forces the decision making down. And by

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Speaker 1: forcing the decision making down, it forces them to be

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Speaker 1: they recognize their owners of the decision. Now, if they

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Speaker 1: made the wrong decision, I was a part of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I supported them and I’m going to own

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Speaker 1: that wrong decision as much as them. But the reality is,

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Speaker 1: is that they arrived at that decision on their own

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Speaker 1: and they’ll want to see themselves be successful because they

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Speaker 1: felt like they were empowered to make that decision. They’re

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Speaker 1: not going to walk out of my office saying, well,

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Speaker 1: we’re doing this because Brian told us to do it.

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Speaker 1: They’re doing it because they walked through the logic and

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Speaker 1: they believe that that was the right decision for the

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Speaker 1: overall business. And so to me, I think that’s really

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Speaker 1: the approach I take as a leader and it forces

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Speaker 1: them to be bought into the decisions we’re making.

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Speaker 3: Sounds a lot like that. Actually, somebody that we know

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Speaker 3: that I feel like I’ve worked for, even though I

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Speaker 3: never worked for him, but your prior boss, Howard Friedman.

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Speaker 3: I feel like every day that I would have a

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Speaker 3: conversation with him, I would be forced to be prepared

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Speaker 3: to answer those questions. And I may as well not

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Speaker 3: show up in the room unless I’ve done so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: At first you become like, why is he asking me

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Speaker 1: so many questions? But then over time, you just get

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Speaker 1: used to it. I saw you had a tremendous earnings

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Speaker 1: call the other day.

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Speaker 3: He sure did.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like he’s doing unbelievably great things at us.

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Speaker 1: I haven’t talked with him in a while, but truly

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Speaker 1: impressive what he’s been doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Cagney presentation was pretty good too. As a Campbell’s board member, I, I,

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Speaker 3: I cheer on growth in the category and that is

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Speaker 3: all I will have to say about that. This takes

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Speaker 3: us back to, we met more than 15 years ago

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Speaker 3: when you were Kraft and I was agency side. Then

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Speaker 3: you went to Uber Eats.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then Total Wine. So just thinking about the craft

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Speaker 3: and Total Wine jobs, like what do you wish you

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Speaker 3: knew when you were on the supplier side in CPG

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Speaker 3: about how to work with partners on the retail side

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Speaker 3: that could help advise, especially a lot of our listeners

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Speaker 3: who fit on either end of that spectrum?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s a really funny question because I remember when

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Speaker 1: I made this transition, how like shocking and jarring it

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Speaker 1: was because I remember when I was at craft, we’d

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Speaker 1: go and we’d present to our biggest retail customer that

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Speaker 1: was Walmart. And here I was, this associate brand manager,

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Speaker 1: brand manager running the team. And we’d prepare for weeks

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Speaker 1: and weeks and weeks, the presentation. And we’d send it

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Speaker 1: to our sales guy that was living in Bentonville. And

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Speaker 1: then Howard, the BU president, would go down and present it.

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Speaker 1: And we, as the people who did all the work,

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Speaker 1: were not allowed to be present. And you knew the

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Speaker 1: day of the meeting, you’d be sitting on pins and

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Speaker 1: needles all day. You’d be so unproductive because you just

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Speaker 1: want to know the results. Like, oh, was Walmart aligned

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Speaker 1: with our idea? Are they going to buy in?

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Speaker 5: Are they going to do whatever?

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Speaker 1: Then you get the feedback from Howard and the sales team.

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Speaker 1: There was a guy named Jason at the time. And

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Speaker 1: then I switched to the, on the retail side. And

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Speaker 1: I remember sitting in a meeting with a really large

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Speaker 1: winery with the CEO of the winery. And I just

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Speaker 1: remember like laughing internally. I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I’m that guy on the other side that we were

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Speaker 1: always so nervous about.

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Speaker 5: Like I’m now that guy.

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Speaker 3: That’s great.

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Speaker 1: And I was thinking, I was like, the CEO of this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like a major, major brand. I was like,

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Speaker 1: the CEO, I know he didn’t make this deck. I

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Speaker 1: know there’s some brand manager sitting in somewhere that made

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Speaker 1: the deck in the presentation. And I just died laughing

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Speaker 1: at that transition. Because I always pictured the buyer, some

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Speaker 1: really old, distinguished person who had been buying their categories

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Speaker 1: for forever.

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Speaker 5: And when in reality, they.

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Speaker 1: Were really just like us on the supplier side. And

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Speaker 1: what it comes down to is The jobs and the

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Speaker 1: roles are not that dissimilar. The main thing is it

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Speaker 1: comes down to the consumer. Everything should be grounded in

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Speaker 1: the customer insights. And so if the, you know, the

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Speaker 1: brands are amazing at this because they invest like crazy.

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Speaker 1: That’s the one thing I really miss about being on

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Speaker 1: the supplier side is they really understand the consumer.

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Speaker 5: They understand the.

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Speaker 1: Insights, the data they have is unbelievable. When they bring

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Speaker 1: those insights to us and present it from a consumer

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Speaker 1: perspective and share that data with us, it really makes

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Speaker 1: the conversation go a lot further because while we’re very

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Speaker 1: consumer and customer obsessed from the retail side, we just

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Speaker 1: don’t have access to the same level of data that

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Speaker 1: they do, even though we’re so much closer to the customer.

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Speaker 1: And that’s because there’s a lot of protections on the data.

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Speaker 1: I can’t see a lot of competitive data. I know

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Speaker 1: what’s working in Total Wine. My data in Total Wine

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Speaker 1: is incredibly deep, incredibly rich, but I don’t know other

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Speaker 1: retailers what’s going on in their store. So I don’t

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Speaker 1: have like a broader view outside of our own four walls.

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Speaker 1: And so that’s where the suppliers can really bring a

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Speaker 1: lot of rich information. And what I always tell suppliers too,

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Speaker 1: is our goals are the same. They want to sell

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Speaker 1: more wine. I want to sell more wine. We want

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Speaker 1: to sell more wine together. Let’s figure this out. And

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Speaker 1: typically they have a strategy, right? They know who their

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Speaker 1: consumer is. They know what they’re trying to do. We

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Speaker 1: have our strategy and our consumer, what we’re trying to do.

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Speaker 1: It’s a Venn diagram. Like let’s put the two together.

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Speaker 1: And if we can find that middle ground where it

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Speaker 1: drives their strategy and drives our strategy, it’s really easy.

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Speaker 1: We’re not some big, scary buyer that’s hidden behind a wall.

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Speaker 1: Like let’s just sit down and collaborate and solve the

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Speaker 1: consumer problems together. I mean, that’s really what it boils

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Speaker 1: down to. And I feel like so many suppliers have

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Speaker 1: missed that. They come in and they just push their

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Speaker 1: agenda and their ideas and what they want to do.

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Speaker 1: And they don’t take the time to listen and hear

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Speaker 1: what total wine strategy is. And if they would listen

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Speaker 1: and pay attention first, and there are some amazing partners

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Speaker 1: that do this, then we can find that overlap and

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Speaker 1: that Venn diagram and we can sell more wine together.

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Speaker 5: It’s really not that complicated. I think you just.

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Speaker 4: Gave great advice as someone’s next JVP with you. You know,

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Speaker 4: it’s interesting. Total wine seems to be growing when the

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Speaker 4: alcohol and spirits category is struggling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So what’s going on and what are we missing?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there’s a few factors there.

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Speaker 1: I think for starters, I recognize that the world of

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Speaker 1: beverage alcohol, adult beverage alcohol is challenging at the moment.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of suppliers are really challenged and sales

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Speaker 1: are declining. We are really gaining, frankly, through market share

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Speaker 1: is where most of our growth is coming from.

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Speaker 5: We’re winning in the market. We’re winning through our customers.

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Speaker 5: How are we doing that?

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Speaker 1: We really just follow kind of the core principles of

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Speaker 1: who we are as a company, which is not, once again,

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Speaker 1: not that complicated. It comes down to, we believe in

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Speaker 1: providing unbelievable service. You know, you walk into a Total

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Speaker 1: Wine or any alcohol store, especially like if you don’t

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Speaker 1: know anything about wine, if most people don’t know a

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Speaker 1: lot about wine, it’s incredibly overwhelming. I mean, there’s hundreds,

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Speaker 1: if not thousands of bottles on the shelf. How do

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Speaker 1: you know what to go buy?

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Speaker 3: Where do you.

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Speaker 5: Get that advice?

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Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time and a lot of

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Speaker 1: energy training all of our associates so that they can

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Speaker 1: offer great advice and great guidance to customers. We bring

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Speaker 1: our store managers to Napa typically a couple times a

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Speaker 1: year to meet the wineries directly and talk with wineries

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Speaker 1: here from the winemakers. Every other year, we bring them

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Speaker 1: to Europe and tour them through Europe and getting to

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Speaker 1: meet European winemakers.

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Speaker 5: And this is what we do for our top performers.

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Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time on internal training. We

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Speaker 1: bring a lot of wineries to our stores, training our stores.

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Speaker 1: And so all of that’s really in the spirit of

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Speaker 1: Of teaching our store team members how to provide great

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Speaker 1: advice and insights. And typically they’re not trying to like

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Speaker 1: push certain things. They’re just pushing what they’re personally passionate

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Speaker 1: about based on what they hear from people. So that’s

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Speaker 1: like number one is like the service aspect. The second

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Speaker 1: thing is our selection. I think we are fortunate that

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Speaker 1: as the market has become more challenging, as a bigger player,

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Speaker 1: we have access to more capital.

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Speaker 5: And that’s allowed us to focus on expanding our assortment.

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Speaker 1: Our goal is to carry a broad range of products

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Speaker 1: from entry-level price points to ultra-rare, ultra-premium type wines and spirits.

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Speaker 1: And so we should be able to have something for everyone.

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Speaker 1: And that’s really expensive to do. It’s costly buying all

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Speaker 1: that product, but I think that’s one of the advantages

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Speaker 1: of when you’re the big players. We’ve made that a

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Speaker 1: real priority for us. The final pillar is really our pricing.

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Speaker 1: We just try to be really laser focused on having

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Speaker 1: sharp prices, sharp retails to allow us to be competitive

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Speaker 1: in the market. We don’t ever want to be undersold

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Speaker 1: versus competition. You know, that’s really what it comes down to.

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Speaker 1: And if we focus on the kind of those key

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Speaker 1: things and have nice, clean, modern stores, people are going

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Speaker 1: to have a great experience. And it’s kind of sad

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Speaker 1: to say, but the bar is not.

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Speaker 5: That high in beverage alcohol, in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Like, you know, when I think back to like, you know,

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Speaker 1: talk with the two brothers that co-founded Total Wine 30

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Speaker 1: some years ago, David and Robert, The reason they got

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Speaker 1: into this business is because they looked around and all

423
00:19:47,290 –> 00:19:49,570
Speaker 1: the liquor stores were like kind of dirty and sleazy

424
00:19:49,570 –> 00:19:51,010
Speaker 1: kind of. and they were like, oh, we can make

425
00:19:51,030 –> 00:19:53,130
Speaker 1: this a better experience. And that’s really what they’ve done.

426
00:19:53,150 –> 00:19:55,709
Speaker 1: Like I said, it’s not rocket science. I mean, we’re

427
00:19:55,750 –> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 1: buying and selling wine and spirits and beer, and it’s

428
00:19:59,910 –> 00:20:03,419
Speaker 1: making the experience compelling to the customer. I would be

429
00:20:03,480 –> 00:20:05,379
Speaker 1: remiss if I did not mention that some of the

430
00:20:05,400 –> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: growth as well is coming from new categories. We’ve seen

431
00:20:08,840 –> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 1: tremendous growth With THC-infused beverages, we’re in about 20 states

432
00:20:13,480 –> 00:20:16,340
Speaker 1: where that’s legal. We see that as a big growth opportunity.

433
00:20:16,359 –> 00:20:19,100
Speaker 1: We’re going to continue to invest in that area. As

434
00:20:19,140 –> 00:20:22,180
Speaker 1: well as non-alcoholic beverages, beer, wine, and spirits, that’s really

435
00:20:22,220 –> 00:20:24,750
Speaker 1: grown as well. You know, I think back to when

436
00:20:24,830 –> 00:20:27,790
Speaker 1: I was 25 years old, the idea of drinking like

437
00:20:27,830 –> 00:20:29,490
Speaker 1: an O’Doul’s or a non-alcoholic beer.

438
00:20:29,390 –> 00:20:30,770
Speaker 5: Was like something that wasn’t a thing.

439
00:20:31,270 –> 00:20:33,869
Speaker 1: And now it’s become so common for people to drink

440
00:20:34,250 –> 00:20:37,030
Speaker 1: non-alcoholic wine. It’s called like zebra striping, where you drink

441
00:20:37,130 –> 00:20:39,729
Speaker 1: one alcohol, one non-alcohol. Cause you to moderate a little

442
00:20:39,750 –> 00:20:41,929
Speaker 1: bit more. We’re seeing growth there. And now there’s this

443
00:20:41,990 –> 00:20:45,169
Speaker 1: new thing called functional beverages. It’s not, that name is

444
00:20:45,270 –> 00:20:47,830
Speaker 1: not super consumer friendly. It’s probably not, not the right

445
00:20:47,850 –> 00:20:50,730
Speaker 1: word to use, but this idea of beverages that are

446
00:20:50,750 –> 00:20:53,870
Speaker 1: made with like lion’s mane and ashwagandha, I would even

447
00:20:53,910 –> 00:20:57,750
Speaker 1: include is probably not right, but like poppy sodas where

448
00:20:58,070 –> 00:21:00,770
Speaker 1: you have these soft drinks that have an effect on

449
00:21:00,810 –> 00:21:01,830
Speaker 1: your body. Right.

450
00:21:01,850 –> 00:21:03,609
Speaker 5: And that’s what alcohol does. I’ve got some effect on

451
00:21:03,630 –> 00:21:04,450
Speaker 5: your body, right?

452
00:21:04,530 –> 00:21:09,209
Speaker 1: It changes your mood, your behavior, your social interactions. And

453
00:21:09,270 –> 00:21:12,669
Speaker 1: I believe functional beverages have, you know, have effects on

454
00:21:12,690 –> 00:21:15,650
Speaker 1: your body. It’s not the same effects that alcohol has. Poppy,

455
00:21:15,710 –> 00:21:17,770
Speaker 1: I think, has famously focused it on, I’ll call it

456
00:21:17,810 –> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 1: more digestion probiotics. But some of the things like the

457
00:21:21,020 –> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: lion’s mane and the ashwagandha can be more focus driven

458
00:21:24,740 –> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: or help you calm down at night. There’s beverages that

459
00:21:27,260 –> 00:21:30,659
Speaker 1: have magnesium and magnesium to help you sleep. When I

460
00:21:30,660 –> 00:21:33,419
Speaker 1: think about when I joined Total Wine, there were three categories.

461
00:21:33,440 –> 00:21:34,470
Speaker 5: There’s wine, beer, and spirits.

462
00:21:35,090 –> 00:21:37,550
Speaker 1: And now when you start to include THC beverages, you

463
00:21:37,570 –> 00:21:40,210
Speaker 1: start to include these functional things. You start to include non-alcoholic.

464
00:21:40,609 –> 00:21:43,270
Speaker 1: There’s only three categories. It’s like an infinite number of

465
00:21:43,330 –> 00:21:47,180
Speaker 1: categories along a continuum. And it’s just, it’s not easy

466
00:21:47,260 –> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: to shop the categories anymore because it’s highly confusing.

467
00:21:50,760 –> 00:21:52,460
Speaker 5: Like, you know, where does this fall?

468
00:21:52,500 –> 00:21:56,580
Speaker 1: But I think all of those things are compelling to

469
00:21:56,619 –> 00:21:59,020
Speaker 1: our customers. And so we just keep expanding our assortment

470
00:21:59,220 –> 00:22:02,220
Speaker 1: and making sure we have a great selection. And I

471
00:22:02,240 –> 00:22:04,780
Speaker 1: think that keeps bringing people into the stores.

472
00:22:05,550 –> 00:22:09,409
Speaker 4: It’s so interesting. You guys are playing offense while a

473
00:22:09,450 –> 00:22:11,929
Speaker 4: lot of other people are playing defense. And when I

474
00:22:12,090 –> 00:22:16,609
Speaker 4: talk about what’s going on in the sector from a

475
00:22:17,060 –> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 4: manufacturer side, the portfolios that are winning are the ones

476
00:22:21,560 –> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 4: that have an M & A or an innovation strategy,

477
00:22:24,119 –> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 4: very similar to what you just described, versus some of

478
00:22:27,660 –> 00:22:29,859
Speaker 4: the players that are just really trying to hold on

479
00:22:29,880 –> 00:22:32,220
Speaker 4: to the old way of doing things. So it’ll be

480
00:22:32,260 –> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 4: interesting if they start to copy the Total Wine strategy.

481
00:22:35,950 –> 00:22:36,450
Speaker 5: Absolutely.

482
00:22:36,830 –> 00:22:37,210
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

483
00:22:37,810 –> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: Well, Brian, we got to ask you our famous last question,

484
00:22:40,380 –> 00:22:42,700
Speaker 4: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

485
00:22:43,359 –> 00:22:46,740
Speaker 1: Oh man, I’ve been like dreading this question. I don’t

486
00:22:46,760 –> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: really think of myself as anyone that’s particularly brave. I

487
00:22:49,240 –> 00:22:53,010
Speaker 1: feel like I’ve made so many career leaps and moves.

488
00:22:53,050 –> 00:22:55,169
Speaker 1: I’ve lived in like four countries in my life. I’ve

489
00:22:55,190 –> 00:22:58,330
Speaker 1: changed career arc so many times. And at some point

490
00:22:58,369 –> 00:23:01,550
Speaker 1: it just becomes who you are as a person. So

491
00:23:01,570 –> 00:23:03,409
Speaker 1: I don’t think that anything I’ve particularly done is brave.

492
00:23:03,450 –> 00:23:04,820
Speaker 1: So I was trying to debate, I was going through

493
00:23:04,840 –> 00:23:07,060
Speaker 1: all my career stuff. I’ve been going through all my

494
00:23:07,119 –> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: personal stuff, looking for something brave. And I think the

495
00:23:09,540 –> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: one that I came up with, and this person might

496
00:23:12,119 –> 00:23:15,060
Speaker 1: kill me for telling the stories, I realized, and I

497
00:23:15,100 –> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: tell this story very rarely, is when I went on

498
00:23:18,080 –> 00:23:20,220
Speaker 1: my honeymoon with my wife, it was the longest amount

499
00:23:20,260 –> 00:23:21,300
Speaker 1: of time I’d ever.

500
00:23:21,160 –> 00:23:21,659
Speaker 5: Spent with her.

501
00:23:21,680 –> 00:23:24,500
Speaker 4: I gotta take myself off mute. That is really funny.

502
00:23:25,140 –> 00:23:26,220
Speaker 5: We dated, my wife and I.

503
00:23:26,140 –> 00:23:30,170
Speaker 1: Dated for like seven or eight years. And we lived

504
00:23:30,230 –> 00:23:33,950
Speaker 1: in different cities, different careers. And in fact, so we

505
00:23:33,970 –> 00:23:35,170
Speaker 1: went on our honeymoon, it was the longest amount of

506
00:23:35,190 –> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: time we had spent together. And then our first year

507
00:23:38,300 –> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: of marriage, we didn’t even live together. I was in

508
00:23:40,140 –> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: Philly in grad school and my wife was working in

509
00:23:42,280 –> 00:23:43,940
Speaker 1: DC on Capitol Hill.

510
00:23:44,260 –> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 5: So we only saw each other on weekends.

511
00:23:46,480 –> 00:23:49,379
Speaker 1: And so it wasn’t until a year after we got married,

512
00:23:49,480 –> 00:23:51,260
Speaker 1: when we moved to Chicago and that’s, and that’s where

513
00:23:51,300 –> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: I met Sarah when I was working for.

514
00:23:52,359 –> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 5: Kraft in Chicago.

515
00:23:53,800 –> 00:23:56,060
Speaker 1: But that was the first time my wife and I

516
00:23:56,280 –> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: ever spent more than like a week or two together.

517
00:23:58,850 –> 00:24:00,790
Speaker 1: was when we moved in after a year of marriage.

518
00:24:01,410 –> 00:24:04,390
Speaker 1: We’re still together 17 years later, a couple of kids

519
00:24:04,410 –> 00:24:08,590
Speaker 1: and multiple city moves. So I would say that was

520
00:24:08,630 –> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: probably the bravest thing, but a little bit outside.

521
00:24:11,600 –> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 3: Of the box.

522
00:24:12,430 –> 00:24:17,020
Speaker 4: That’s hysterical. I recently asked a mentor, how does she

523
00:24:18,060 –> 00:24:21,700
Speaker 4: make her marriage work? And she told me it’s because

524
00:24:21,720 –> 00:24:25,460
Speaker 4: they don’t really spend time together. So maybe that’s the secret.

525
00:24:25,520 –> 00:24:28,550
Speaker 5: Is there something to it? My wife travels quite a

526
00:24:28,550 –> 00:24:29,070
Speaker 5: bit for work.

527
00:24:29,130 –> 00:24:30,950
Speaker 1: And in my job, obviously, I travel quite a bit

528
00:24:30,990 –> 00:24:33,270
Speaker 1: going to different wine regions and meeting with wineries. And

529
00:24:33,310 –> 00:24:36,770
Speaker 1: so it feels like we’re apart more often than we’re together,

530
00:24:36,810 –> 00:24:39,570
Speaker 1: but it works out. It’s been 17 years later.

531
00:24:39,590 –> 00:24:40,449
Speaker 5: Like I said, it’s been great.

532
00:24:40,490 –> 00:24:43,260
Speaker 4: Well, we’ll find out if your wife listens to Brave Commerce,

533
00:24:43,580 –> 00:24:45,479
Speaker 4: if she brings this up at all.

534
00:24:45,760 –> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

535
00:24:46,619 –> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 4: And Brian, we’re so appreciative for all your insights, especially

536
00:24:49,160 –> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 4: your insights and leadership.

537
00:24:50,800 –> 00:24:52,340
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Thank you guys. Pleasure to be here.

538
00:24:53,880 –> 00:24:55,950
Speaker 4: If you like what you heard and you want to

539
00:24:55,990 –> 00:24:59,869
Speaker 4: go listen to an episode with another great military veteran

540
00:24:59,930 –> 00:25:02,530
Speaker 4: who has a lot of relevance to Brian and Sarah,

541
00:25:02,630 –> 00:25:05,810
Speaker 4: go check out an episode we did way back when

542
00:25:05,930 –> 00:25:09,410
Speaker 4: Howard Friedman was the CEO of Post. He’s now at Utz.

543
00:25:09,880 –> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 4: And Howard, this is a shout out that we’re going

544
00:25:11,859 –> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 4: to get you back on the show. And don’t forget

545
00:25:14,220 –> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 4: to write a review. Thanks for listening.

546
00:25:32,640 –> 00:25:36,620
Speaker 2: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

547
00:25:36,660 –> 00:25:39,419
Speaker 2: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

548
00:25:39,460 –> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

549
00:25:42,940 –> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: this incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once. As

550
00:25:46,680 –> 00:25:48,980
Speaker 2: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

551
00:25:49,040 –> 00:25:52,179
Speaker 2: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

552
00:25:52,380 –> 00:25:55,649
Speaker 2: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

553
00:25:55,690 –> 00:25:58,540
Speaker 2: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

554
00:25:58,580 –> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

555
00:26:01,100 –> 00:26:04,619
Speaker 2: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

556
00:26:04,830 –> 00:26:06,890
Speaker 2: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.