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Speaker 1: Everybody who works on Dr. Pepper, from the brand managers

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Speaker 1: to the social team and everybody in between, they are

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Speaker 1: part of the one-of-a-kind community. They are Dr. Pepper fans.

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Speaker 1: The fact that we can say with conviction, with certainty,

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Speaker 1: that this means a lot to the community because we

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Speaker 1: are the community gave us a lot of gravitas when

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Speaker 1: we’re taking it to our executive team that this is

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Speaker 1: the right thing to do. And they had our back.

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Speaker 2: Brands that are willing to throw out their own brief.

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Speaker 3: Disrupt their own production cycle and really say, you know,

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Speaker 3: this is what our community and fans expect of us

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Speaker 3: in this moment.

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Speaker 2: If we don’t respond, they’re going to be disappointed.

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Speaker 1: Everybody felt so much pride that we were able to

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Speaker 1: capture this moment, celebrate one of our fans, and really

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Speaker 1: tell our story.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce.

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Speaker 5: I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 6: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

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Speaker 6: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Free of Commerce.

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Speaker 6: Sarah, have you made a television commercial in your career?

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Speaker 4: I have never made a commercial that was built directly

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Speaker 4: for television. I have built content that has ultimately landed

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Speaker 4: on television. But the brief was never make me a

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Speaker 4: 30-second spot. I’ve never received that brief.

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Speaker 7: Nor have I.

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Speaker 6: I’ve never worked in that part of the business. But

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Speaker 6: one of my dear friends is a creative director. And

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Speaker 6: what he does for a living is make television commercials,

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Speaker 6: especially for the Super Bowl. And what blows my mind

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Speaker 6: is that at these big moments, brands will not just

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Speaker 6: make one commercial, but they’ll actually spend money on two

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Speaker 6: to three and do a shit ton of testing and

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Speaker 6: then ultimately decide to go with a piece of creative.

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Speaker 6: I share all that because even though we’re living in

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Speaker 6: a 2026 time period where the cost per content has

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Speaker 6: become significantly lower when it comes to big television spots,

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Speaker 6: especially for live moments, I feel like brands still go

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Speaker 6: about it in very traditional ways.

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Speaker 4: It’s a tale of two cities because when it comes to,

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Speaker 4: like you say, you asked me if I made a

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Speaker 4: television commercial. I’ve made content that’s ended up on television,

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Speaker 4: but not through that whole process.

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Speaker 5: All of the.

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Speaker 4: Planning that goes into these massive investments. And I think

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Speaker 4: now that we’re sitting at the intersection of like World Cup, Wimbledon,

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Speaker 4: US Open.

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Speaker 5: You know, we just got done with the NBA finals.

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Speaker 6: Like, let’s go next.

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Speaker 5: Damn right. It’s about damn time.

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Speaker 4: But as we look at all of those things happening,

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Speaker 4: the importance of live television and capturing moments with big

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Speaker 4: fat ratings, you put the real effort and dollars into it.

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Speaker 4: And then on the other hand, you’ve got dynamic creative

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Speaker 4: optimization with personalization at scale. And it’s like all this

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Speaker 4: disposable content. So one process is like, carefully crafted, and

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Speaker 4: one is just pump and dump.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Which is why it still feels novel, even in the

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Speaker 6: year 2026, to see essentially social media content, creator content,

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Speaker 6: user-generated content appear on live TV. It’s funny that that’s

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Speaker 6: still so unusual in today’s environment.

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Speaker 5: Because that would require a lot more testing.

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Speaker 7: 100%.

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Speaker 1: So when.

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Speaker 5: I heard Dr.

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Speaker 6: Pepper earlier this year aired a spot that featured a

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Speaker 6: creator’s jingle that went viral on TikTok at the college

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Speaker 6: national championship football game, which is a huge moment for Dr.

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Speaker 1: Pepper.

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Speaker 6: We wondered, like, how did that come to be? And

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Speaker 6: so we will all get to hear the inside the

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Speaker 6: locker room story of essentially how a TikTok jingle ended

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Speaker 6: up on one of the biggest moments of live sports.

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Speaker 6: Let’s bring Ben and Mike onto the show. Today, we

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Speaker 6: are very excited to have two big brands onto the show.

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Speaker 6: We have Mike Westgate, who’s the sector lead of retail

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Speaker 6: and global business solutions at TikTok, and Ben Sylvan, the

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Speaker 6: senior vice president of connected media team at Keurig Dr.

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Speaker 5: Pepper.

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Speaker 6: Hello, Mike, and hello, Ben.

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Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me as well.

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Speaker 6: Well, excited to have both of you on the show.

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Speaker 6: I was reflecting, and it’s actually strange that we have

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Speaker 6: never had a advertiser and a platform on the show

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Speaker 6: together since we talk about that all day long. So

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Speaker 6: this is a Brave Commerce first. I think we should

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Speaker 6: probably give the audience a level set on why the

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Speaker 6: two of you are doing this interview together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So last December, there was a creator named Romeo

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Speaker 1: who created a Dr. Pepper jingle that essentially broke the internet.

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Speaker 1: And the jingle was premiered on TikTok. And we worked

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Speaker 1: very closely together across Dr. Pepper and TikTok to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we gave Romeo the moment in the sun

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Speaker 1: that they deserved. We worked together to identify that this

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Speaker 1: jingle was really just sweeping the the community of Dr.

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Speaker 1: Pepper fans. And we worked together to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we were able to amplify and leverage this moment to

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Speaker 1: celebrate our fans, to celebrate Romeo, and to celebrate our brand.

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Speaker 1: And so this is one of those stories that wouldn’t

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Speaker 1: have happened without the partnership. Dr. Pepper could not have

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Speaker 1: done this alone. TikTok gave us a forum. It gave

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Speaker 1: Romeo a forum to tell our story. We thought it

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Speaker 1: made a lot of sense to show the power of

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Speaker 1: a brand plus a platform plus a creator and how

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Speaker 1: it can help us grow.

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Speaker 4: But if we go behind the scenes, like how this

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Speaker 4: actually went down. I’m working at Dr.

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Speaker 5: Pepper. This TikTok breaks the internet.

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Speaker 4: What are all of the mechanisms that tend to happen?

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Speaker 4: Because workflow is so complicated that you could have missed

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Speaker 4: the moment altogether.

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Speaker 5: So how’d it go down?

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Speaker 1: So this one’s kind of funny. So usually we rely

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Speaker 1: on a buttoned up social listening process to identify trends

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Speaker 1: before they bubble up. We have a great team that’s

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Speaker 1: aided by all sorts of AI-fueled tools to get ahead

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Speaker 1: of trends. But honestly, with Romeo, we didn’t need it.

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Speaker 1: Romeo is an overnight sensation like we just couldn’t miss.

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Speaker 1: I think what’s really unique about Dr. Pepper is our

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Speaker 1: social team is truly part of the community. They are

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Speaker 1: raving fans of the brand. They were among the first

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Speaker 1: to celebrate Romeo. They went into Romeo’s comments probably the day,

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Speaker 1: day after Romeo released the jingle. But they didn’t need

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Speaker 1: social listening to find Romeo. It surfaced in a bubbled,

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Speaker 1: quickly and our team was able to identify it. I remember,

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Speaker 1: in fact, it was around the week of Christmas and

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Speaker 1: I was on vacation in Mexico and I woke up,

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Speaker 1: I don’t know, pretty early. I was behind time zones

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Speaker 1: for the rest of my team. And I got a

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Speaker 1: note from my team about how great this jingle was,

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Speaker 1: how it was an earworm they couldn’t get out of

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Speaker 1: their mind and how they think this is something that’s

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Speaker 1: going to be really important for the brand and how

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Speaker 1: it was something that as fans of Dr. Pepper and

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Speaker 1: as fans of the community, they loved. And so I

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Speaker 1: couldn’t get out of my mind the rest of the vacation.

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Speaker 1: But we all agreed that like, hey, let’s celebrate Romeo.

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Speaker 1: Let’s go into their comments. Let’s try to amplify this jingle.

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Speaker 1: But let’s track the consumer response during the holidays to

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Speaker 1: see if the rest of our community was excited as

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Speaker 1: we were. And they clearly were. By the time we

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Speaker 1: came back from the holidays, Romeo was truly a phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: Our community could stop singing her jingle. Our community members

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Speaker 1: are creating their own spots with the jingle. And they

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Speaker 1: were just celebrating Romeo like every hour across TikTok and

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Speaker 1: across some other channels. And at that point, our social

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Speaker 1: team felt validated. They felt heard, they felt seen, they

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Speaker 1: felt like they were part of the community, right? Because

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Speaker 1: they are. And so then we realized like, this is

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Speaker 1: pretty big. We need to do something that’s meaningful. And

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Speaker 1: so that’s where some of the complexity came in. It’s

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Speaker 1: hard to identify and hard to align on the plan

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Speaker 1: to really make sure that we were doing Romeo justice.

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Speaker 1: We knew it was a big moment for our brand.

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Speaker 1: We knew it made a lot of sense. We knew

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Speaker 1: that Romeo was a huge advocate for our brand. We

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Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that we gave Romeo their time.

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Speaker 1: And so that’s where we tried to move as quickly

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Speaker 1: as we could. We didn’t go through the standard briefing

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Speaker 1: process that you typically would because we realized we can’t

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Speaker 1: move as fast as culture if we try to go

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Speaker 1: through like an old school process. So we got all

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Speaker 1: of our key stakeholders on a call and we came

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Speaker 1: up with a lot of different ideas about how to

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Speaker 1: execute and how to really amplify this moment. And ultimately,

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Speaker 1: we landed on the idea that we want to do

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Speaker 1: something as big as we possibly can. This jingle had

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Speaker 1: essentially became something that had never really been seen in CPG.

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Speaker 1: And so we wanted to make sure that we were

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Speaker 1: doing it justice. And the standard playbook for recognizing a creator,

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Speaker 1: recognizing a moment like this, we didn’t feel like it

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Speaker 1: was big enough for Romeo. And so we decided that

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Speaker 1: we were going to land on our biggest day of

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Speaker 1: the year for Dr. Pepper, the College Football National Championship.

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Speaker 1: And we were going to create an entirely new commercial

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Speaker 1: spot with Romeo’s jingle as the centerpiece. What was really

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Speaker 1: difficult and challenging about that was, again, it was the

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Speaker 1: first week back from the holidays when we aligned that

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do something really big. The national championship

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Speaker 1: isn’t until the third Monday of January, MLK Day. And

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Speaker 1: so there was a window between when we decided we

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Speaker 1: want to do something really big and when we actually

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Speaker 1: did it and when our fans could see it. And

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Speaker 1: in that time, we were getting some criticism from our

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Speaker 1: fans saying we weren’t moving fast enough. Or that, are

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Speaker 1: you guys not going to do anything about this? Romeo

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Speaker 1: gave you tons and tons of attention. Are you going

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Speaker 1: to ignore them? And that is not at all what

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Speaker 1: we were doing, but we held firm. We realized that, Hey,

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Speaker 1: the payoff will be worth it. There’s no bigger day

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Speaker 1: for Dr. Pepper than the college football national championship. We

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, sat back, took some strays, which

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Speaker 1: were well warranted at the time because people didn’t know

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Speaker 1: what we had cooking and And then we decided to,

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Speaker 1: you know, use some of our airtime during the college

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Speaker 1: football national championship and show this commercial two different times.

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Speaker 1: And at that point, the internet just shut down. We

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Speaker 1: truly broke the internet. The responses from our community were amazing.

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Speaker 1: Like some of them are really touching. And I remember

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Speaker 1: there was one or two TikTok reels of people literally

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Speaker 1: crying because they felt so touched that Romeo had been seen,

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Speaker 1: Romeo had been given this moment in the sun, and

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Speaker 1: that we really recognized who our fans were and we

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Speaker 1: wanted to celebrate them. But from a process perspective, it

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Speaker 1: really was coming up with the idea and holding firm

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Speaker 1: and being really quick with what we wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: So we had the time to create the commercials to

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Speaker 1: run during the national championship. And then also kind of

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Speaker 1: being comfortable with the fact that we were going to

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Speaker 1: be hated for a few days, but it was the

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Speaker 1: right thing for the brand because we wanted to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we could create that tension and then celebrate

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Speaker 1: Romeo in the biggest way possible.

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Speaker 4: I can only imagine how those days were in between

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Speaker 4: when you were getting all the crap.

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Speaker 5: And you’re like, no, don’t worry. It’s all going to

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Speaker 5: pay off in the end. How many of those phone.

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Speaker 4: Calls or texts or slacks were you getting in that

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Speaker 4: period of time?

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Speaker 1: We were getting a lot.

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Speaker 5: I’m just saying internal. Just internal. Forget about the consumer sentiment. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we had a lot internally because you don’t

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Speaker 1: want to be hated for something that you shouldn’t be

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Speaker 1: hated for, right? Because you know you’re doing the right thing.

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Speaker 5: Don’t I know it, man.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. But sometimes… If you wait a little bit, stick

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Speaker 1: to what you believe in, you have conviction on, it’s

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Speaker 1: going to end up working out in the end. And

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Speaker 1: it did. So our fans definitely felt heard after the fact,

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Speaker 1: like once it ran on the championship and then all

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Speaker 1: the press that Romeo got in the aftermath of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, Romeo was on pretty much every morning show.

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Speaker 1: You couldn’t miss Romeo in the weeks after. And so

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Speaker 1: while there was some frustration, you have to have a

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Speaker 1: little bit of thick skin to deal with it. knowing

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Speaker 1: that ultimately you’re doing the right thing for your fans,

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Speaker 1: your partner in Romeo, and for the brand as well.

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Speaker 1: There were definitely moments internally where we were thinking like, man,

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Speaker 1: should we tell people what we’re doing just to kind

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Speaker 1: of get rid of some of the comments we’re seeing online?

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Speaker 1: And then ultimately we decided like, hey, we can take

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Speaker 1: a couple weeks of criticism knowing that it’s going to

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Speaker 1: pay off because we’re not going to ruin the moment.

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Speaker 1: Like the moment’s going to be really authentic, The moment’s

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Speaker 1: going to be touching because it’s going to be unexpected.

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Speaker 1: And so we didn’t want to do a big press release.

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Speaker 1: We didn’t want to tell people what we were doing beforehand.

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Speaker 1: We wanted it to be authentic. We wanted it to

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Speaker 1: feel really special. And so it was a tough couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks, but I’m glad we didn’t second guess ourselves.

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Speaker 6: You mentioned stakeholders. At what senior level did this have

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Speaker 6: to get approved? Did your CEO have to weigh in?

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Speaker 6: Do they have to bring it to the board of directors?

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Speaker 6: Or does the puck stop with you?

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Speaker 1: Great question. We worked very closely with our CEO and

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Speaker 1: my boss, our CMO, to make sure that we are

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Speaker 1: all aligned with this. Changing our spots during the College

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Speaker 1: Football National Championship is not a small task. Again, that

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Speaker 1: is the biggest day of the year for Dr.

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Speaker 3: Pepper, right?

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Speaker 1: We are synonymous with college football. We celebrate fans of

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Speaker 1: college football. That is at the center of our brand.

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Speaker 1: And so making that pivot from spots that we had

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Speaker 1: planned to run for half a year to doing a 180,

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Speaker 1: for a creator who obviously the TikTok community and the

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Speaker 1: social community knew, but there may not be a perfect

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Speaker 1: overlap with college football fans.

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Speaker 2: It’s a big decision.

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Speaker 1: So we wanted to make sure that our CEO, our CMO,

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Speaker 1: and my team, as well as the brand managers, were

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Speaker 1: all holding hands, and we all aligned that this was

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Speaker 1: the right thing to do. So we had a lot

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Speaker 1: of conversations. But again, ultimately, it all goes back to

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Speaker 1: the fact that Dr. Pepper, like everybody who works on Dr. Pepper,

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Speaker 1: from the brand managers to the social team and everybody

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Speaker 1: in between, They are part of the one of a

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Speaker 1: kind community. They are Dr. Pepper fans. The fact that

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Speaker 1: we can say with conviction, with certainty that this means

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Speaker 1: a lot to the community because we are the community

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Speaker 1: gave us a lot of gravitas when we’re taking it

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Speaker 1: to our executive team that this is the right thing

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Speaker 1: to do. And they had our back. I mean, they’re Dr.

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Speaker 1: Pepper fans as well. And they’re part of the community.

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Speaker 1: And so they understood where we were coming from and

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Speaker 1: they were fully supportive of it. And, you know, now

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Speaker 1: we want to figure out, like, can we replicate that?

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Speaker 1: Because it was such a powerful moment for our brand.

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Speaker 1: In our four walls, everybody felt so much pride that

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Speaker 1: we were able to capture this moment, celebrate one of

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Speaker 1: our fans, and really tell our story.

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Speaker 6: And Mike, from a TikTok perspective, when I think about this,

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Speaker 6: the only other brand that comes to mind is e.l.f.

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Speaker 6: Cosmetics in terms of how they took a TikTok jingle

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Speaker 6: and then brought it into their national advertising. With everything

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Speaker 6: that you see at TikTok and your colleagues see at TikTok,

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Speaker 6: was this a once in a lifetime opportunity? Is Ben

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Speaker 6: going to be able to do this again? Like, what’s

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Speaker 6: sort of your hot take?

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Speaker 3: Well, you can’t replicate Romeo, but I think you can

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Speaker 3: take advantage of the model that now is established at Keurig, Dr. Pepper,

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Speaker 3: and a few other brands have adopted as well, is

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Speaker 3: really leaning in and recognizing that culture starts on TikTok.

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Speaker 3: And if you don’t participate, then what does the brand

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Speaker 3: stand for to that community? So We’ve seen some examples,

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Speaker 3: probably the first example when I first started here in

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Speaker 3: 2020 was like Dreams and Ocean Spray.

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Speaker 2: I don’t know if you guys remember that.

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Speaker 3: Very spontaneous moment, but the key to it, probably what

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Speaker 3: is the common thread with Romeo’s jingle is it invites participation.

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Speaker 3: And participation is the strongest signal of demand. Brands that

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Speaker 3: are willing to throw out their own brief, disrupt their

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Speaker 3: own production cycle, and really say, you know, this is

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Speaker 3: what our community and fans expect of us in this moment.

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Speaker 3: If we don’t respond, they’re going to be disappointed. it

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Speaker 3: kind of came like full cycle. So there’s this moment

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Speaker 3: late December, and then the TikTok informed the brief that

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Speaker 3: became the major commercial campaign around the college football playoff championship,

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Speaker 3: which then gave it new life on TikTok again for

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Speaker 3: more participation, inversions, and community participation around this super cool, simple, repeatable,

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Speaker 3: inversionable jingle.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: When I came, I’ve only been here 14 months. When

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Speaker 1: I was talking about coming to KDP, One of the

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Speaker 1: things my boss, our CMO, and I talked about was

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Speaker 1: how do we change the culture a little bit to

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Speaker 1: move faster, right? To move at the speed of culture.

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Speaker 1: I come from a different background than your traditional media

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Speaker 1: leads at a CPG. I spent the first half of

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Speaker 1: my career in journalism. I was editor-in-chief of some platforms

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Speaker 1: at ESPN, worked in tech afterward. So I was used

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Speaker 1: to moving really, really fast, probably too fast at times.

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Speaker 1: But Drew, when we were talking about coming here, He said, like,

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Speaker 1: I want you to build a team that is set

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Speaker 1: up to move as fast as culture. I want you

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Speaker 1: to move and build things really, really fast and then

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Speaker 1: iterate and optimize and learn. And we need to move

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Speaker 1: away from the traditional, you know, like we’re going to

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Speaker 1: brief something. We’re going to take a quarter to align

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Speaker 1: on what we’re going to do and then we’re going

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Speaker 1: to move. And that’s really what sold me on coming

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Speaker 1: here was being able to bring that fast moving sort

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Speaker 1: of process and operating model into to a CPG brand

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Speaker 1: the way that Mike referenced so that we can react, right?

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Speaker 1: You can’t plan a Romeo. You never know when that’s

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Speaker 1: gonna happen. And hopefully we find another Romeo. We may not,

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Speaker 1: but you’re always gonna have like a micro moment around

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Speaker 1: your brand. And you need to be able to react

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Speaker 1: quickly and come up with a smart plan to capitalize

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Speaker 1: on it or else the moment’s gonna leave you and

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Speaker 1: it’s gonna move past you. And if you don’t have

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Speaker 1: the internal tools and internal processes to make fast decisions,

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Speaker 1: you’re never gonna be able to participate in culture.

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Speaker 6: So now that we’re six months away from the college

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Speaker 6: football moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: The big question is, did it move the needle in sales?

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Speaker 7: It did.

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Speaker 1: We did a lot of analysis. So I come from

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Speaker 1: a closed loop background. So I worked in ad tech

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Speaker 1: for a long time, worked on closed loop CPG measurements,

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Speaker 1: you know, taking impressions you serve across the internet, whether

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Speaker 1: it’s social platforms or the open internet, and then time

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Speaker 1: them in store sales. One of the things that I’ve

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Speaker 1: had to get a is that you don’t get the

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Speaker 1: impression data, right? Like we don’t know necessarily who saw

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Speaker 1: the Romeo jingle on TikTok because it’s not user level.

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Speaker 1: We can’t get that impression data. And so we’ve had

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Speaker 1: to come up with new ways to measure. And so

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Speaker 1: what we did here was the week of the college

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Speaker 1: football national championship in 2026, we compared to 2025, knowing

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Speaker 1: that most things were the same. We had a big

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Speaker 1: paid media buy on the linear game, as well as

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Speaker 1: all the social components surrounding it. We knew that we

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Speaker 1: had distribution gains during that season in store. So we

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Speaker 1: knew all the different things that were stable across the years.

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Speaker 1: We also knew what was different. And one of the

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Speaker 1: key things that was different was Romeo. There was no

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Speaker 1: Romeo equivalent during the 2025 College Football National Championship. And

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Speaker 1: so we were able to gauge the growth week over

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Speaker 1: week of pre-National Championship Week to National Championship Week and

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Speaker 1: the out weeks as well and see what our growth

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Speaker 1: should have been versus what it was. And so what

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Speaker 1: we found was in the week of college football national

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Speaker 1: championship in 2026, we grew 23% year over year in

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Speaker 1: dollar sales compared to 2025. Now, some of that has

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Speaker 1: to be attributed to incremental distribution that we got in retail.

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Speaker 1: So after we stripped that out, we still came to

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Speaker 1: the conclusion that we drove about 13% incremental sales that

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Speaker 1: week and in the out weeks because of the Romeo

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Speaker 1: boost that we got. So that was about 19 million

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Speaker 1: extra servings of Dr. Pepper sold in one week that

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Speaker 1: we could attribute to that campaign. So it was meaningful

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Speaker 1: for our brand. The lifetime value or the long-term value,

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Speaker 1: as well as the new raving fans that we were

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Speaker 1: able to bring into our brand because they recognized that

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Speaker 1: we are part of the community was something that we’re

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Speaker 1: still measuring. We’re still tracking, right? We’re trying to see

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Speaker 1: like of the people who we brought into the brand,

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Speaker 1: who is staying and who becomes another sort of like

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00:19:36,660 –> 00:19:39,540
Speaker 1: amplifier of our brand. Because we very much rely on

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Speaker 1: word of mouth. We employ what we call a raving

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00:19:41,820 –> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 1: fans model. where we want to make sure that we’re

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Speaker 1: amplifying and we’re celebrating our fans like Romeo, because they

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00:19:47,840 –> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: become our biggest advocates. So the more people we bring

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Speaker 1: into our brand, the more we can turn them into

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Speaker 1: raving fans who we then can count on to drive

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00:19:56,280 –> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: bigger word of mouth. So short term, we saw tremendous

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Speaker 1: incrementality as a result of Romeo. But really, what’s going

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Speaker 1: to be really exciting for our brand is the long

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Speaker 1: term value that we’re going to get from this partnership.

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Speaker 3: We’re building tools also to help make that discovery period much,

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Speaker 3: much shorter. We’ve got something called Content Engine that’s basically

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Speaker 3: going to flag to Ben and team and other brands.

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Speaker 2: There are emerging.

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Speaker 3: Viral, highly engageable videos that are happening in the moment

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Speaker 3: on TikTok. And here are ways that we’d recommend connecting

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Speaker 3: with those creators and users to be able to take

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Speaker 3: advantage of the moment and, as Ben said, give them

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Speaker 3: their spot in the sun as well.

423
00:20:31,690 –> 00:20:33,530
Speaker 2: So that is one way that we can.

424
00:20:33,470 –> 00:20:38,770
Speaker 3: Help brands and partners not just think about like, one

425
00:20:38,869 –> 00:20:41,750
Speaker 3: shining moment, but how do you sustain this true community

426
00:20:41,790 –> 00:20:42,910
Speaker 3: engagement and impact?

427
00:20:42,950 –> 00:20:45,730
Speaker 2: Because the comment section is becoming the new focus group.

428
00:20:45,859 –> 00:20:47,820
Speaker 5: I mean, that’s been the case for quite some time.

429
00:20:47,900 –> 00:20:50,419
Speaker 4: It’s how do you deal with that signal to noise?

430
00:20:50,500 –> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 4: And I love, Ben, what you said earlier about being

431
00:20:54,119 –> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 4: a former journalist, probably also because that’s.

432
00:20:56,460 –> 00:20:57,609
Speaker 5: How I started my career.

433
00:20:57,630 –> 00:21:01,250
Speaker 4: And so looking at the arc of both of your careers,

434
00:21:01,830 –> 00:21:05,410
Speaker 4: you both have platform and CPG experience in your professional backgrounds,

435
00:21:05,450 –> 00:21:09,909
Speaker 4: but you’ve been Almost like creating that special sauce of

436
00:21:09,960 –> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 4: trying to figure out how to be at that intersection

437
00:21:12,780 –> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 4: of all the goodness that you bring without any of

438
00:21:15,520 –> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 4: the yucky legacy. So how do you think that type

439
00:21:17,700 –> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 4: of empathy and chemistry impact the way the two of

440
00:21:20,460 –> 00:21:21,199
Speaker 4: you work together?

441
00:21:21,660 –> 00:21:24,300
Speaker 3: If you’re willing to go fast and nothing is truly

442
00:21:24,380 –> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 3: sacred and the consistent firm belief that the perfect brief

443
00:21:28,300 –> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 3: is not written in an ivory tower, it makes the

444
00:21:30,700 –> 00:21:34,050
Speaker 3: platform come to life for you. Because the creative community

445
00:21:34,109 –> 00:21:37,710
Speaker 3: is the lifeblood of TikTok and can be tremendous growth

446
00:21:37,730 –> 00:21:41,330
Speaker 3: partners in informants, even in not just campaigns and marketing,

447
00:21:41,369 –> 00:21:43,470
Speaker 3: but also innovation roadmap as well.

448
00:21:43,780 –> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. Having experience that Mike and I have that’s pretty similar,

449
00:21:48,500 –> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: inverse of one another, but we kind of know what

450
00:21:50,960 –> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: both of us are focused on. We know what each

451
00:21:53,720 –> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: of our incentives are in ways that maybe other vendor

452
00:21:58,330 –> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: client relationships don’t have. It’s funny, when I was at

453
00:22:01,660 –> 00:22:03,379
Speaker 1: the trade desk where I spent a big portion of

454
00:22:03,420 –> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: my career, I would actually try to hire former brand

455
00:22:06,740 –> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: managers or ad leads at CPGs because I thought it

456
00:22:10,510 –> 00:22:14,530
Speaker 1: was really important for people who are building products for

457
00:22:14,609 –> 00:22:17,150
Speaker 1: advertisers to have actually been on the brand side, kind

458
00:22:17,170 –> 00:22:20,050
Speaker 1: of like Mike has been. Because I think sometimes on

459
00:22:20,070 –> 00:22:22,210
Speaker 1: the platform side, you have a tendency to, and I’m

460
00:22:22,250 –> 00:22:24,250
Speaker 1: not saying you do it, TikTok Mike, but I think

461
00:22:24,369 –> 00:22:27,810
Speaker 1: at times there is a sort of ivory tower mentality

462
00:22:28,090 –> 00:22:31,750
Speaker 1: where you’re sort of building products that aren’t necessarily meeting

463
00:22:31,770 –> 00:22:35,109
Speaker 1: the needs of advertisers. Vice versa, now that I’m on

464
00:22:35,130 –> 00:22:38,990
Speaker 1: the brand side, I can have more empathy for why

465
00:22:39,050 –> 00:22:42,260
Speaker 1: products were built and I can do a better job,

466
00:22:42,280 –> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: I think maybe of others, of translating sort of the

467
00:22:45,240 –> 00:22:49,300
Speaker 1: intent of products to members of my team or find

468
00:22:49,340 –> 00:22:52,540
Speaker 1: ways to hack the system to use how products have

469
00:22:52,560 –> 00:22:55,690
Speaker 1: historically been built to our advantage, right? Or to kind

470
00:22:55,730 –> 00:22:57,330
Speaker 1: of like tweak them a little bit. Like a good

471
00:22:57,369 –> 00:23:00,149
Speaker 1: example of that is almost every tech platform builds a

472
00:23:00,170 –> 00:23:03,690
Speaker 1: conversion API, which works really well for direct response marketers.

473
00:23:04,010 –> 00:23:06,389
Speaker 1: It doesn’t always work great for CPGs because you can

474
00:23:06,450 –> 00:23:08,650
Speaker 1: end up in a situation where you’re just reaching people

475
00:23:08,670 –> 00:23:10,369
Speaker 1: who are going to buy your brand anyway, and it’s

476
00:23:10,390 –> 00:23:13,300
Speaker 1: just a dog chasing its tail. But we’ve been able to,

477
00:23:13,340 –> 00:23:15,780
Speaker 1: at Dr. Pepper, kind of understanding how the tech works,

478
00:23:16,240 –> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: having empathy for why it was built, who it was

479
00:23:18,440 –> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: built for. We’ve been able to kind of build some

480
00:23:21,640 –> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 1: somewhat proprietary ways that we use CAPIs. bringing new different

481
00:23:25,200 –> 00:23:28,980
Speaker 1: types of data into the APIs that then fuel our

482
00:23:29,040 –> 00:23:32,980
Speaker 1: optimizations toward KPIs that we care most about, like incrementality

483
00:23:33,510 –> 00:23:37,270
Speaker 1: or new households. We’re really focused on bringing new households,

484
00:23:37,350 –> 00:23:40,330
Speaker 1: new buyers into our brands. So we don’t want an

485
00:23:40,390 –> 00:23:43,670
Speaker 1: optimization engine that is just built for continuing to reach

486
00:23:43,730 –> 00:23:45,710
Speaker 1: buyers who are going to buy our brand anyway. So

487
00:23:46,090 –> 00:23:48,930
Speaker 1: understanding why things were built and how they were built,

488
00:23:49,430 –> 00:23:51,459
Speaker 1: and then being able to kind of tweak them to

489
00:23:51,500 –> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: our needs is has been really beneficial to the team.

490
00:23:54,660 –> 00:23:57,940
Speaker 1: And then again, Mike and I coming from similar backgrounds allows,

491
00:23:57,980 –> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: I think it just allows us to speak a common language.

492
00:24:00,680 –> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 6: Ben, it sounds like you have a new software product

493
00:24:03,440 –> 00:24:04,980
Speaker 6: in your hands to go sell to other brands.

494
00:24:05,200 –> 00:24:07,780
Speaker 1: I don’t know about that. It’s very much hacked.

495
00:24:07,980 –> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 6: I’m like, I’m ready to go sell that for you.

496
00:24:10,640 –> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 6: We have to ask both of you our famous last question.

497
00:24:13,840 –> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 6: And so the question is, what’s the bravest thing you’ve

498
00:24:16,220 –> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 6: ever done? Ben, I’ll start with you.

499
00:24:18,660 –> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: So like I said, I was a journalist earlier in

500
00:24:21,020 –> 00:24:23,790
Speaker 1: my career. I was a sports journalist. And so I

501
00:24:23,830 –> 00:24:27,510
Speaker 1: graduated college in the early 2000s when Boston was sort

502
00:24:27,530 –> 00:24:30,990
Speaker 1: of the center of all things sports journalism. And so

503
00:24:31,150 –> 00:24:33,340
Speaker 1: I don’t come from a family that takes a lot

504
00:24:33,380 –> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: of risks. I think you could refer to my mother

505
00:24:35,700 –> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: as being very risk adverse. I essentially like, Stumped my

506
00:24:39,619 –> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: family when I decided to move to Boston after undergrad

507
00:24:42,940 –> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: with no job and even less money with the prospect

508
00:24:46,840 –> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: of becoming a sports journalist where there wasn’t going to

509
00:24:48,960 –> 00:24:51,300
Speaker 1: be exactly much money waiting for me at the end

510
00:24:51,340 –> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: of the day anyway. But I think that was the

511
00:24:53,270 –> 00:24:56,170
Speaker 1: bravest thing was I moved from Colorado to Boston with

512
00:24:56,230 –> 00:24:59,270
Speaker 1: no job, less money, realizing that that was sort of

513
00:24:59,290 –> 00:25:01,570
Speaker 1: the epicenter of the industry at that time. And if

514
00:25:01,630 –> 00:25:04,230
Speaker 1: I wanted to be successful in sports media, I had

515
00:25:04,250 –> 00:25:06,830
Speaker 1: to be there. I know obviously 20 plus years later,

516
00:25:06,850 –> 00:25:09,090
Speaker 1: I’m no longer in sports media. I’m on the brand side.

517
00:25:09,550 –> 00:25:11,649
Speaker 1: I still think it worked out really well, but that

518
00:25:11,690 –> 00:25:14,909
Speaker 1: was scary at the time. And it was not necessarily

519
00:25:15,330 –> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: encouraged by, you know, with how I was raised.

520
00:25:20,900 –> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 7: Love it.

521
00:25:21,660 –> 00:25:22,060
Speaker 1: And Mike?

522
00:25:23,060 –> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 3: You guys may call this one too easy of a layout,

523
00:25:25,720 –> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 3: but back in 2020, TikTok was still untested. Two little

524
00:25:29,460 –> 00:25:32,570
Speaker 3: kids at home The world shut down for COVID, starting

525
00:25:32,590 –> 00:25:35,790
Speaker 3: a new job then at home with a, they were

526
00:25:35,869 –> 00:25:38,550
Speaker 3: seven and four at the time. And we didn’t have

527
00:25:38,570 –> 00:25:41,550
Speaker 3: a fully established platform of ad products at that time.

528
00:25:41,590 –> 00:25:43,860
Speaker 3: So joining TikTok was a leap for me. I’d always

529
00:25:43,880 –> 00:25:48,060
Speaker 3: been brand side before, but the learning and the working

530
00:25:48,400 –> 00:25:51,780
Speaker 3: incredibly brilliant people, incredibly exciting brands and creatives over the

531
00:25:51,820 –> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: last six years, adding things like TikTok shop to our

532
00:25:55,260 –> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 3: arsenal and figuring out the future of commerce has been

533
00:25:57,920 –> 00:26:00,729
Speaker 3: the most enlightening period of my career. So You know,

534
00:26:00,760 –> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: I say at the time it felt scary. Looking back now,

535
00:26:03,320 –> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: it makes perfect sense. But yeah, given all the other

536
00:26:06,060 –> 00:26:09,780
Speaker 3: circumstances around COVID in 2020, April 6th, it was a

537
00:26:09,800 –> 00:26:12,740
Speaker 3: bit of a leap and certainly enjoyed every minute of

538
00:26:12,780 –> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: it though.

539
00:26:13,600 –> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 6: Well, what ties both of you together in those stories

540
00:26:15,820 –> 00:26:18,770
Speaker 6: is your intuition. So keep listening to it. We’re so

541
00:26:18,810 –> 00:26:22,869
Speaker 6: appreciative for you sharing the story behind Dr. Pepper and TikTok.

542
00:26:24,050 –> 00:26:26,430
Speaker 6: Six more months, Ben, to see if you can comp

543
00:26:26,490 –> 00:26:27,090
Speaker 6: what you did.

544
00:26:27,109 –> 00:26:27,179
Speaker 1: Yes.

545
00:26:28,220 –> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 6: So we’ll be watching.

546
00:26:29,260 –> 00:26:31,980
Speaker 1: A lot of pressure to do so. So we’re trying

547
00:26:32,000 –> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: to figure it out.

548
00:26:33,340 –> 00:26:35,060
Speaker 6: Well, we can get you back into the show and

549
00:26:35,119 –> 00:26:37,939
Speaker 6: find out how you landed. But what an awesome story

550
00:26:38,050 –> 00:26:39,929
Speaker 6: and partnership. Thanks for joining us.

551
00:26:40,030 –> 00:26:40,390
Speaker 2: Thank you.

552
00:26:40,670 –> 00:26:42,130
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys. That was fun.

553
00:26:44,490 –> 00:26:46,909
Speaker 6: If you like what you heard and you want to

554
00:26:46,950 –> 00:26:51,210
Speaker 6: hear an episode from the CEO of Keurig Dr. Pepper,

555
00:26:51,310 –> 00:26:53,669
Speaker 6: but he was not the CEO when we interviewed him

556
00:26:53,710 –> 00:26:56,540
Speaker 6: on the show. He was the CEO… of Central Pet

557
00:26:56,600 –> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 6: and Garden, go check out an episode we did way

558
00:26:59,119 –> 00:27:02,220
Speaker 6: back when with Tim Kofer. If you like what you heard,

559
00:27:02,800 –> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 6: write a review. Thanks for listening.

560
00:27:28,220 –> 00:27:32,180
Speaker 7: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

561
00:27:32,220 –> 00:27:34,980
Speaker 7: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

562
00:27:35,040 –> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 7: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

563
00:27:38,500 –> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 7: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

564
00:27:42,240 –> 00:27:44,540
Speaker 7: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

565
00:27:44,619 –> 00:27:47,740
Speaker 7: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

566
00:27:47,940 –> 00:27:51,209
Speaker 7: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

567
00:27:51,250 –> 00:27:54,109
Speaker 7: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

568
00:27:54,130 –> 00:27:56,590
Speaker 7: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

569
00:27:56,650 –> 00:28:00,179
Speaker 7: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

570
00:28:00,380 –> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 7: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.