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Speaker 1: Netflix has always done stuff a little bit different. And

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Speaker 1: I think what we’re showing within the advertising business is

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Speaker 1: we’re sort of taking what our superpowers are, which are

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Speaker 1: things that are unique to us. So it’s like anything,

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Speaker 1: like you have to know what your partners are looking

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Speaker 1: for from you. And as you begin to solve your problems,

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Speaker 1: because there’s no magic wand in this industry, as we

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Speaker 1: all know, right? Like I always joke, like when people

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Speaker 1: are like, oh, when is your tech going to be done?

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Speaker 1: I’m like, never. Everybody’s talking about AI. What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: It means that we will actually have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: share data in a privacy compliant way that will actually

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Speaker 1: move dollars faster than humans can email each other or

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Speaker 1: somebody can look at a report and do something.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce.

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Speaker 1: I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 3: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

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Speaker 3: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah,

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Speaker 3: how many advertising channels do you think a marketer has

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Speaker 3: an opportunity to place their dollars on today?

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Speaker 2: That is an unfair question. I believe that the answer

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Speaker 2: is infinity times infinity. It’s not only how many places

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Speaker 2: you have, but how many ways you have to execute

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Speaker 2: said buys on said platforms.

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Speaker 1: That’s true. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In my new latest startup, one of the things we

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Speaker 2: do at 37Org is look at all of the different

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Speaker 2: ways that clients go to market, like how marketers go

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Speaker 2: to market. And I just did a project where it

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Speaker 2: was a smallish company that used 72 different platforms just

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Speaker 2: to manage their marketing.

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Speaker 1: I believe it’s cray-cray.

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Speaker 3: Well, to give you some data on my side, first

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Speaker 3: of all, we know that there’s so many places you

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Speaker 3: can place your dollars, as you said, infinite. But the

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Speaker 3: reality is there’s 150 media platforms that that do over $ 100.

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Speaker 1: Million in revenue today.

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Speaker 3: So really, there’s like 150 platforms that matter, and then

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Speaker 3: there’s a long tail of nonsense.

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Speaker 2: 150 is a lot to keep track of.

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Speaker 3: And then at Micmac, you know, obviously we are tracking

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Speaker 3: over $ 3 billion of global ad spend. We see that

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Speaker 3: a brand on average spends their dollars on 20 platforms.

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Speaker 3: So you take that 150, you now narrow it down

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Speaker 3: to 20. And in tough economic times, obviously that pie

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Speaker 3: can get smaller and smaller. Yet there’s all these new

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Speaker 3: entrants that continue to come to market.

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Speaker 2: The very only theory of following the money, does that

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Speaker 2: make sense for all these new entrants?

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Speaker 1: Is there enough to go around?

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Speaker 3: So the answer is, I think in some respects, no.

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Speaker 3: But then you see these outliers. So let’s take Netflix.

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Speaker 3: Their advertising business has been around for three years. In

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Speaker 3: their 2025 earnings, they ended the year they reported at

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Speaker 3: $ 1. 5 billion in global ad spend. They plan to double

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Speaker 3: it this year according to their earnings. So if they

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Speaker 3: do that, it’s a $ 3 billion ad business that was

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Speaker 3: created in four years. I mean, I would do that

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Speaker 3: all day long if there’s more opportunities like that.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: You also need the combination of brand recognition of Netflix

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Speaker 2: and not to mention the fact that Netflix knows more

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Speaker 2: about me than probably my kids do. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And, you know, Nicole, who leads the North America ad business,

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Speaker 3: she’s going to get into so many details on the show.

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Speaker 3: But I really hone in on something that I think

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Speaker 3: she articulates, which is for an advertising platform to win today,

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Speaker 3: they need scale data. They need tech that allows them

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Speaker 3: to act on it instantly. And then a strong differentiated

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Speaker 3: content value proposition for the end user. Otherwise, like, what

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Speaker 3: are you doing here? Why are people coming here to

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Speaker 3: gain their attention? And when you think about Netflix, they

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Speaker 3: really do have the opportunity to do it globally because

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Speaker 3: they’re already doing it in their subscription business. And there’s

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Speaker 3: really not that many other companies that you can name

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Speaker 3: that can do it on a global scale. So there’s

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Speaker 3: a reason why the short list keeps getting shorter and shorter,

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Speaker 3: because it’s really hard to pull this off.

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Speaker 2: Let’s hear more from Nicole. I mean, she’s seen it

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Speaker 2: from so many different angles, the ad tech side, the

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Speaker 2: agency side. She’s seen it from every angle and now

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Speaker 2: the Netflix one. I think we can find… Few brands

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Speaker 2: more recognized than Netflix. And today we are happy to

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Speaker 2: have Nicole Pangas, VP of UCAN Advertising at Netflix, joining us.

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Speaker 2: A longtime friend. Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: We’re excited to get your perspective.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It’s great to reconnect.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: It’s been a while, Sarah. I missed you.

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Speaker 2: Well, if it takes a podcast to bring us back

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Speaker 2: together again, then that’s what it’ll have to be. Our

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Speaker 2: paths have crossed so many times over the past, I

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Speaker 2: don’t know, let’s just call it many years because we

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Speaker 2: don’t need to date ourselves, but you’ve had these C-suite

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Speaker 2: roles going all the way back with 24-7 Media, Zaxxas, GroupM, Ampersand,

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Speaker 2: and now you’re leading North America for the Netflix ad business,

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Speaker 2: which is over a billion in revenue already. I could

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Speaker 2: ask what made you want to join Netflix, but there’s

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Speaker 2: a lot of obvious stuff. Tell me about what made.

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Speaker 1: You join in this particular capacity. Just the opportunity. You know,

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Speaker 1: when Netflix first announced that they were going into advertising,

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Speaker 1: I was just very intrigued as just a Netflix member

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Speaker 1: at the time. And while obviously, you know, there was

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Speaker 1: no ads footprint when they announced they were going into advertising,

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Speaker 1: I thought the opportunity for the company, based on all

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Speaker 1: of the sort of raw assets that’s out there, were

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Speaker 1: really pretty incredible. And so when I got the email

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Speaker 1: from my now boss, Amy, to have dinner with her

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Speaker 1: in New York the following week, It was obviously a

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Speaker 1: very welcome email. And it’s really about building something new.

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Speaker 1: I think of myself as a builder. A lot of

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Speaker 1: my career has been spent building new things within advertising.

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Speaker 1: And so coming in at sort of nearly the ground

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Speaker 1: up at a very well-established entertainment company with some really

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Speaker 1: tremendous assets and some tremendous talent within the organization was

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Speaker 1: something that I was really excited to join. So I’m

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Speaker 1: proud of all the progress that we’ve made so far.

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Speaker 1: And there’s still so much to tackle that we’re going

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Speaker 1: to be doing over the next several years.

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Speaker 2: Culturally, when joining a company like Netflix that was new

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Speaker 2: to this, did that come into your consideration as much

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Speaker 2: as the opportunity was there? You were walking into a

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Speaker 2: company that for many years had sworn this off.

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Speaker 1: It didn’t. It didn’t for me. At the time that

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Speaker 1: I joined, my first day in the office was the

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Speaker 1: two-year anniversary of the business. And so sort of early

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Speaker 1: indications were already that there was a lot of good

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Speaker 1: things happening and a lot more to come. So that

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Speaker 1: did not hit my radar at all. But honestly, even

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Speaker 1: if it had, I think I would have done it anyway.

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Speaker 1: I don’t think that it would have stopped me. There’s

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Speaker 1: risk in any opportunity you take. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: for me, the opportunity to build new things is really

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Speaker 1: the draw. And I think Netflix had and still has

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Speaker 1: a really incredible opportunity to build something different for the

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Speaker 1: advertising business than has existed before.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of the advertising business, you know this better than anyone.

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Speaker 3: There’s a lot of players in the space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Netflix definitely has an opportunity, but it’s a crowded space.

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Speaker 3: So what do you see as the unique entry points

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Speaker 3: for Netflix? And then I’m also just curious, like, who

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Speaker 3: is Netflix taking share from?

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Speaker 1: So I think the opportunity, based on sort of the

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Speaker 1: history of the company way before advertising, it’s sort of

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Speaker 1: the combination. What made Netflix successful was is a few things.

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Speaker 1: One is, is this combination of art and science. Really

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Speaker 1: incredible TV shows and movies combined with the best technology, right?

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Speaker 1: The joke is like Netflix knows what you want to

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Speaker 1: watch next before you want to watch next. Like that

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Speaker 1: recommendation engine is really incredibly powerful. That dichotomy or that

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Speaker 1: combination is powered by, you know, modern advertising with optimizations,

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Speaker 1: you know, based on the data, really great data insights

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Speaker 1: that sit based on the viewership that we have. And

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Speaker 1: then all these incredible movies and shows and events, that

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Speaker 1: are increasingly on platform that really drive attention and engagement.

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Speaker 1: So because we have all three of those things at

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Speaker 1: a global scale and our member engagement is so high,

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Speaker 1: like it is a very different, in my opinion, very

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Speaker 1: different looking entity than many or any in the world.

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Speaker 1: It is different. Netflix has always been different and it’s

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Speaker 1: different in advertising, just like it was different in television

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Speaker 1: and then CTV and sort of everything. So I think

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Speaker 1: People do get caught up in competition, et cetera, but

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Speaker 1: Netflix has always done stuff a little bit different. And

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Speaker 1: I think what we’re showing within the advertising business is

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Speaker 1: we’re doing, we’re sort of taking what our superpowers are,

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Speaker 1: which are the things that are unique to us and

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Speaker 1: leveraging them in this industry to do things a different

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Speaker 1: way for advertisers and the competitions doing, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think it makes all the sense in the world.

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Speaker 2: This podcast is about brave commerce, no question. that you

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Speaker 2: have been brave about so many steps in your career

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Speaker 2: that you’ve taken. Let’s talk about the connectivity to commerce.

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Speaker 2: How are you guys thinking about Netflix being a place

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Speaker 2: for the full final ad dollar investments?

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Speaker 1: So I love this question. It’s one that’s very near

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Speaker 1: and dear to my heart, which you didn’t know before

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Speaker 1: you asked it, but it is. It’s something that we

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Speaker 1: talk about a lot. And I personally talk about it

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Speaker 1: a lot. So if you think about the power of

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Speaker 1: television traditionally, the power of television, and I’m talking about

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Speaker 1: linear television before CTV came into play, the power was

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Speaker 1: in reaching a broad audience with your message as an advertiser.

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Speaker 1: There’s power. in that. There’s power in reaching audiences at scale.

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Speaker 1: I think within CTV specifically, and it wasn’t so much

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Speaker 1: the case earlier on, but CTV now brings scale the

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Speaker 1: way linear brought scale, right? For a while, CTV existed,

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Speaker 1: but it existed at smaller scale. So while you could

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Speaker 1: see more on a regular basis, more real time, the

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Speaker 1: performance or the outcomes, let’s say, not performance as far

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Speaker 1: as lower funnel, but whatever outcomes you’re looking for as

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Speaker 1: an advertiser, it took time to see that within linear.

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Speaker 1: It takes a lot less time in the digital world.

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Speaker 1: CTV brought the promise from the time that it started

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Speaker 1: at a much smaller scale to bring more dimensions to

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Speaker 1: measurement faster to advertisers, which is powerful. Now I think

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Speaker 1: the opportunity in CTV in a platform or a company

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Speaker 1: like Netflix is that we can bring global scale that

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Speaker 1: existed in linear and bring that dimension of CTV and

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Speaker 1: the measurement into the same place. And so whether you

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Speaker 1: want brand awareness, consideration, or sort of like foot traffic,

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Speaker 1: we just launched a conversion API that is lower funnel measurement.

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Speaker 1: Like that is… lowest funnel that you can sort of get.

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Speaker 1: And so I think these worlds are coming together and

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Speaker 1: brands really have a way to do all the things

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Speaker 1: in one place with a company like Netflix. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: to do it in a privacy compliant way, to be

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Speaker 1: able to reach a lot of people at once, then

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Speaker 1: to be able to sort of pull them through the

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Speaker 1: funnel appropriately using different data and different audiences and different messaging.

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Speaker 1: I think that to me, when you think of full

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Speaker 1: funnel and the promise of what linear and digital we’ve

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Speaker 1: talked about for a decade, the promise of what it

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Speaker 1: could be, it’s actually happening now and it’s happening at scale.

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Speaker 1: So to me, it’s like a very, it’s always a

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Speaker 1: very exciting time, I think, to be in advertising. But

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Speaker 1: I think it’s really exciting because I think the promise

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Speaker 1: of what a lot of us have been talking about

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Speaker 1: for a very long, long time is actually here now.

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Speaker 3: And do you think advertisers perceive Netflix in the way

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Speaker 3: that you just articulated? Like, do they see it as

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Speaker 3: a place for a full funnel or is that work

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Speaker 3: that you and your team are doing to help them

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Speaker 3: understand that?

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Speaker 1: I think some do because, you know, work that we’ve

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Speaker 1: done with certain advertisers have really proved out great return

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Speaker 1: on ad spend, more foot traffic than other players, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. So I think it’s starting to play out.

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Speaker 1: It’s definitely not where we started. Because again, when we started,

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Speaker 1: we had no ads members, right? And that was just

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Speaker 1: like three and change years ago. So we, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were obviously a later entrant. So we’re still building. We’re,

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Speaker 1: you know, we just moved over to our ad server.

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Speaker 1: It was our happy one-year anniversary to the Netflix ad

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Speaker 1: suite in the US on April 1st, which was not

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Speaker 1: that long ago. So I do think we have work there, Rachel,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I’m honest. But I think we’re moving

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Speaker 1: there very, very fast. And just like we’ve built… a

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Speaker 1: really big business in a short amount of time, it

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Speaker 1: doesn’t worry me that we’re not looked that way because

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, it’s our responsibility to bring all

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Speaker 1: of this to our advertisers as we see these, the

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Speaker 1: conversion API we just launched last month. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: there’s a lot that we’re bringing and we’re constantly bringing

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Speaker 1: things to market. So it’s just constantly going back and

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Speaker 1: making sure that our partners know what we have when

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Speaker 1: we have it. And it’s not, as you know, one

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Speaker 1: size fits all, like different advertisers, different, segments need different offerings.

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Speaker 1: You know, some rely on foot traffic, some are MMM models,

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Speaker 1: some are conversion APIs, some are a lot of DSP work.

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Speaker 1: And so all of these things are sort of ingredients

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Speaker 1: to the larger recipe of like the Netflix ads business.

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Speaker 1: So all a journey.

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Speaker 2: It’s interesting, obviously, when you’re dealing with different verticals and

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Speaker 2: the different things that they’re looking for, but you just

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Speaker 2: picked on something that we haven’t really discussed very much

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Speaker 2: on Brave Commerce, which is how do you make sure

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Speaker 2: that in a business that is fast changing as much

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Speaker 2: as it is, that you’re able to figure out how

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Speaker 2: to update the right people with the right message. It’s

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Speaker 2: very meta, if you will, in that you are a

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Speaker 2: marketer and you are trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: market to your buyers about all the new things that

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Speaker 2: you’re bringing because you are not an old school ad platform.

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Speaker 2: You are the newest of the new in so many ways.

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Speaker 2: How do you think about that in your particular job,

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Speaker 2: what it takes to… roll out something new and make

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Speaker 2: sure that you’re actually getting it in front of the

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Speaker 2: right potential buyers, whether that’s agency side or brand side

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Speaker 2: or partner side, so that they’re all up to speed

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Speaker 2: on the latest and greatest. I mean, other than obviously

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Speaker 2: promoting it on Brave Commerce, but beyond that.

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Speaker 1: Obviously. It’s a great question. I think there’s no company

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Speaker 1: that does this perfectly. When you talk about partnerships, we

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Speaker 1: are selling solutions to companies our partners, to our advertising

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Speaker 1: partners with agency or client directly, right? And so in

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Speaker 1: some cases, obviously clients have their own data clean rooms now.

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Speaker 1: So we work with them directly. In some cases, they

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Speaker 1: go through their agency. Just really understanding what different clients

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Speaker 1: within different segments need and making sure that like, if

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Speaker 1: we don’t have it yet, right? Like conversion API is

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Speaker 1: a great example that I mentioned just came out last week.

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Speaker 1: There was a number of clients that in conversations that

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Speaker 1: we’ve had over the past two years, we knew that

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Speaker 1: they needed from us, right? So just being really thoughtful,

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Speaker 1: sounds silly, but like I’m a pretty simple girl, like

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Speaker 1: who are those clients that we’ve spoken to over the

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Speaker 1: last years and making sure that we go back out

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Speaker 1: to them and make sure that we make them aware

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Speaker 1: that we have the conversion API. By the way, before

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Speaker 1: it comes out, right? Because we know it’s coming out

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Speaker 1: before it actually comes out. So starting to engage with

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Speaker 1: them early. So it’s like anything, like you have to

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Speaker 1: know what your partners are looking for from you And

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Speaker 1: as you begin to solve your problems, because there’s no

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Speaker 1: magic wand in this industry, as we all know, right?

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Speaker 1: Like I always joke, like when people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: when is your tech going to be done? I’m like, never.

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Speaker 1: I’ve been building tech for 25 years now, and it’s

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Speaker 1: never going to stop. And in fact, it’s just moving

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Speaker 1: faster and faster. So when you build tech, you’re always

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Speaker 1: inherently a little behind where you need to be because

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Speaker 1: you need to have a problem before you can build

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Speaker 1: the solution for it. So we’re just going to keep

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Speaker 1: at it. Thankfully, we have great relationships with our partners.

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Speaker 1: And I think we have a really sort of two-way

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Speaker 1: door on what they need and what we’re building. And

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Speaker 1: I think because we’re a later entrant, it gave us

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Speaker 1: the ability to really focus on the most important things.

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Speaker 1: Because as we also know, there’s a million solutions out there.

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Speaker 1: Which are the ones that are really going to move

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Speaker 1: the needle? Because I know in past lives, I’ve built

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Speaker 1: a thousand different things. And really, five of them mattered.

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Speaker 1: And so I think being a late entrant, has helped

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Speaker 1: us get really focused on what really matters to clients.

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Speaker 1: And that inherently has given us the opportunity to build

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Speaker 1: faster the more strategic things that matter for clients. And that,

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Speaker 1: I think, has been a great opportunity for us and

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Speaker 1: for our partners, obviously.

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Speaker 3: I mean, history goes to show that often the companies

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Speaker 3: that stand the test of time were not in the

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Speaker 3: first position.

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Speaker 1: It’s true.

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Speaker 3: On the topic of working with your advertisers and them

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Speaker 3: being a great voice to shape the roadmap, who’s killing

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Speaker 3: it right now in Netflix ads? Like if I’m a CMO,

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Speaker 3: who should I be paying attention to? It’s like a

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Speaker 3: great case study of how they’re maximizing the opportunity at Netflix.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of great examples. I’ll give just

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Speaker 1: for the sake of time, I’ll give maybe a couple.

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Speaker 1: One is Airbnb. So we partnered with them for season

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Speaker 1: two of Nobody Wants This. And it really drove like

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Speaker 1: full funnel when we’re talking about full funnel before brand

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Speaker 1: lift outcomes for them. So like industry benchmark beat it

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Speaker 1: by four times, for example. And so we have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to work with brands to get close to our IP,

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Speaker 1: you know, in this case, and also drive like really

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Speaker 1: great outcomes for those brands. So that’s one that I

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Speaker 1: thought was a great, and they’re obviously very happy. Another one,

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Speaker 1: which is a little bit of a tech geeky one,

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Speaker 1: but something that’s near and dear to my heart, we’ve

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Speaker 1: had some really great success partnering with Tenuity on data

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Speaker 1: cleanroom solutions that we’ve been building out. And to me,

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Speaker 1: I think in the world that we’re moving into, no surprise,

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Speaker 1: is data, data flow, and data collaboration is what’s going

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Speaker 1: to drive so much media dollars because technology can move

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Speaker 1: faster than humans. So to me, the work that we’re

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Speaker 1: doing on the data integrations, brand directly, agency directly, to me,

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Speaker 1: is going to drive so much around. Everybody’s talking about AI.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? It means that we will actually

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to share data in a privacy-compliant way

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Speaker 1: that will actually move dollars faster than humans can email

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Speaker 1: each other or somebody can look at a report and

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Speaker 1: do something. And so to me, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: most important work, the most strategic work, besides brands wanting

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Speaker 1: to be close to our titles, which is the fandom

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Speaker 1: part of the magic of what we do, is the

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Speaker 1: data part of what we do is going to mirror

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Speaker 1: that on the data side to really drive really tremendous outcomes,

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Speaker 1: you know, and take that fandom and make it into

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Speaker 1: something powerful for brands from a conversion perspective.

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Speaker 3: I love that you gave the tenuity example. You know,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people on the show are agency tech

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Speaker 3: partners who listen in too. What do you think that

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Speaker 3: they understand about how to work with platforms like Netflix

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Speaker 3: that maybe others don’t?

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Speaker 1: I don’t know if it’s others don’t, but just maybe

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Speaker 1: I’m a little biased because I was at an agency

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Speaker 1: for a long time myself, is when you work at

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Speaker 1: an agency, you see everything. You have a perspective. You

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Speaker 1: have a very broad… perspective of what’s going on in

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Speaker 1: the industry. It’s one of the things that I miss

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Speaker 1: most about not being on that side. You kind of

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Speaker 1: saw what was coming out. You were able to meet

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Speaker 1: with every piece of the industry and kind of piece

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Speaker 1: it in your mind together on how they all fit together.

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Speaker 1: And you sort of lose that when you, you lose

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Speaker 1: that a little bit, at least when you move to

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Speaker 1: the sell side, at least that’s my bit and my experience.

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Speaker 1: Because of that perspective, folks at agencies really understand how to, one,

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Speaker 1: put pieces together, all the pieces, right? Because as much

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Speaker 1: as I’d like to say Netflix is the only place

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Speaker 1: where buyers will buy, I know that not to be true, right?

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Speaker 1: So how do you connect the dots for brands? And two,

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Speaker 1: scale matters. And scale matters a lot in a technology-driven

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Speaker 1: world and a data-driven world. And so all of these

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Speaker 1: technical integrations that the agencies have, to me, like when

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Speaker 1: I walked in the door here a year and a

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Speaker 1: half ago, It’s like mission number one, data clean rooms,

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Speaker 1: agency tech integrations, because I know that the data collaboration

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Speaker 1: that happens between those infrastructures is where a lot of

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Speaker 1: decisions are made. And so to me, It has been critical.

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Speaker 1: It’s becoming more critical in the world of AI and

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Speaker 1: agentic that we’re moving into.

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Speaker 3: Another hot take that has not been said on the show.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, really?

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Speaker 1: Oh, wow.

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I’m surprised, actually. It’s a fresh perspective. Okay.

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Speaker 3: We have to ask you our famous last question, which is,

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Speaker 3: what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: Can I give two sub parts of the answer to

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Speaker 1: the question? One’s personal, one’s professional.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Go for it. So my personal one is a

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Speaker 1: few years ago, I climbed Mount Mulanji, which is the

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Speaker 1: tallest mountain in Malawi in Africa. And it’s not really

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Speaker 1: the height that should be impressive. What I didn’t know

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Speaker 1: when I started climbing the mountain is that you had

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Speaker 1: to like jump between boulders with like nothing underneath you

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Speaker 1: to get over certain parts. And if I was a

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Speaker 1: smarter person, I probably would have like turned around and

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Speaker 1: walked back down the mountain. But I didn’t. I got

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Speaker 1: to the top. So it was brave. It might have

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Speaker 1: been dumb too, if I’m honest, because without safety equipment

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Speaker 1: and no ability to get rescued in Malawi, that probably

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00:21:57,180 –> 00:21:59,830
Speaker 1: wasn’t the smartest thing I’ve ever done. But check the box,

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00:21:59,869 –> 00:22:01,810
Speaker 1: won’t do it again. And then I think the second

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00:22:02,130 –> 00:22:04,369
Speaker 1: thing on the professional side is that when I was

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00:22:04,390 –> 00:22:05,970
Speaker 1: at WP, I was there for a very long time.

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00:22:05,990 –> 00:22:09,390
Speaker 1: I was there for over 10 years and got along

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00:22:09,410 –> 00:22:12,649
Speaker 1: with everybody, did well, all the things. I was a

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00:22:12,850 –> 00:22:15,959
Speaker 1: global COO a couple of times and they offered me

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00:22:15,980 –> 00:22:22,020
Speaker 1: a global CEO position. role at WPP. And I declined

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00:22:22,060 –> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: the role and resigned from the company with no job

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00:22:25,640 –> 00:22:29,060
Speaker 1: lined up. And I just sort of made a personal

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00:22:29,140 –> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: decision to step away and kind of figure out what

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00:22:33,770 –> 00:22:35,830
Speaker 1: I wanted my next chapter to be without it being

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00:22:35,869 –> 00:22:38,370
Speaker 1: sort of like brought to me, right? Because I was

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00:22:39,150 –> 00:22:42,250
Speaker 1: doing well on paper with the roles that I was getting,

434
00:22:42,350 –> 00:22:44,370
Speaker 1: but it felt like it was sort of like, hey,

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00:22:44,430 –> 00:22:46,230
Speaker 1: do this and then do this and then do this.

436
00:22:46,950 –> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: And I said, I’m just going to step away, took

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00:22:49,040 –> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: some time off. And then a number of months later

438
00:22:52,560 –> 00:22:55,500
Speaker 1: is when I ended up at Ampersand for, you know,

439
00:22:55,540 –> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: which was a five and a half year stretch. So

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00:22:57,560 –> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: I think that was, in retrospect, pretty brave to do.

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00:23:01,380 –> 00:23:04,180
Speaker 1: Because I guess there was some risk in that, although

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00:23:04,200 –> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: I felt very resolute in my decision at the time.

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00:23:07,140 –> 00:23:11,930
Speaker 2: I think that’s tremendously brave. And not just in retrospect,

444
00:23:11,950 –> 00:23:14,770
Speaker 2: like just hearing it for the first time, but leaving

445
00:23:14,810 –> 00:23:18,149
Speaker 2: a job without having another Role in mind, A, is

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00:23:18,170 –> 00:23:22,139
Speaker 2: a testament to your confidence in yourself, which is extremely

447
00:23:22,340 –> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: important in the jobs that we have and in the

448
00:23:25,320 –> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: careers that we have. But yeah, it’s no man’s land.

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00:23:29,580 –> 00:23:31,550
Speaker 2: But people then jump and they’re not thinking about what

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00:23:31,570 –> 00:23:33,070
Speaker 2: they’re running from or what they’re running to.

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00:23:33,190 –> 00:23:33,430
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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00:23:33,530 –> 00:23:35,890
Speaker 2: Or they’re usually thinking of one but not the other

453
00:23:36,410 –> 00:23:40,030
Speaker 2: and being brave enough to say, I need that time

454
00:23:40,050 –> 00:23:42,090
Speaker 2: to actually think about what I want to run to,

455
00:23:42,109 –> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: I think is not just brave, but I wish more

456
00:23:46,240 –> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 2: people could do it. Not everybody can. And I don’t

457
00:23:49,720 –> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: mean that financially. I mean, not everybody is as multi-talented

458
00:23:52,740 –> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 2: as you to be able to, you know, say, you

459
00:23:55,700 –> 00:23:57,900
Speaker 2: know what, if this thing doesn’t work out, I’ve got

460
00:23:57,920 –> 00:23:59,580
Speaker 2: like 8,000 different backup options.

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00:23:59,640 –> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: So I don’t know that I really thought about it

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00:24:02,160 –> 00:24:04,340
Speaker 1: as strategically as like, you know, in retrospect, I would

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00:24:04,380 –> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: like to pretend I did. It was just, you know,

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00:24:07,300 –> 00:24:09,300
Speaker 1: you just have like a gut. I believe in trusting

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00:24:09,320 –> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: your gut. It was just my gut. I was like,

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00:24:11,320 –> 00:24:13,700
Speaker 1: my gut is I shouldn’t take this job, even though

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00:24:14,920 –> 00:24:17,050
Speaker 1: you know, it’s a good, good, you know, it’s 39

468
00:24:17,050 –> 00:24:18,950
Speaker 1: years old. It’s like a, you know, being a global

469
00:24:18,990 –> 00:24:23,889
Speaker 1: CEO is like pretty good. 39, like kind of something

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00:24:23,910 –> 00:24:26,350
Speaker 1: that in theory I worked for my whole career, right.

471
00:24:26,450 –> 00:24:28,790
Speaker 1: To get a job offer like that. But something in

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00:24:28,830 –> 00:24:31,930
Speaker 1: my gut was like not the right thing. And yeah.

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00:24:32,250 –> 00:24:33,310
Speaker 2: Your gut has served you well.

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00:24:33,750 –> 00:24:36,270
Speaker 1: I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. I believe in following your,

475
00:24:36,490 –> 00:24:38,330
Speaker 1: your body, right. If your body tells you something, you

476
00:24:38,350 –> 00:24:38,750
Speaker 1: should listen.

477
00:24:39,350 –> 00:24:42,770
Speaker 3: Well, we are excited to follow your journey at Netflix

478
00:24:42,910 –> 00:24:47,109
Speaker 3: and beyond. Really appreciate all your insights into CTV and

479
00:24:47,150 –> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: what’s happening at Netflix right now. And if folks want

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00:24:50,300 –> 00:24:52,620
Speaker 3: to follow you, I’m sure they will find you on LinkedIn.

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00:24:52,800 –> 00:24:55,060
Speaker 1: Great. Thank you so much for the opportunity to chat

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00:24:55,100 –> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: with you guys. Nice to see you both.

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00:24:58,480 –> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 3: If you like what you heard and you want to

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00:25:00,100 –> 00:25:04,780
Speaker 3: go deeper on the demand side, go check out an

485
00:25:04,859 –> 00:25:09,100
Speaker 3: episode we recently recorded with Toby, who leads the advertising

486
00:25:09,119 –> 00:25:12,100
Speaker 3: business for DoorDash, or go check out an episode we

487
00:25:12,140 –> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 3: did a few months ago with the president of NBCU,

488
00:25:15,600 –> 00:25:17,990
Speaker 3: Allison Levin. And if you like what you heard, tell

489
00:25:18,030 –> 00:25:20,050
Speaker 3: a friend, write a review. Thanks for listening.

490
00:25:35,820 –> 00:25:39,780
Speaker 2: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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00:25:39,820 –> 00:25:42,590
Speaker 2: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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00:25:42,650 –> 00:25:46,090
Speaker 2: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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00:25:46,109 –> 00:25:49,810
Speaker 2: this incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once. As

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00:25:49,850 –> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 2: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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00:25:52,240 –> 00:25:55,340
Speaker 2: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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00:25:55,540 –> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

497
00:25:58,840 –> 00:26:01,709
Speaker 2: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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00:26:01,730 –> 00:26:04,189
Speaker 2: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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00:26:04,250 –> 00:26:07,770
Speaker 2: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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00:26:07,970 –> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.