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Speaker 1: We told you that you needed to understand regions. You

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Speaker 1: needed to understand sub-regions. And, oh, do you know the

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Speaker 1: right food and wine pairings? I mean, this is an

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Speaker 1: insider code that you better know or you’re not invited

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Speaker 1: to the club. That’s a pretty hard way to have

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Speaker 1: to come into something. We need to get back in

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Speaker 1: the conversation of providing good value at different price points

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Speaker 1: for different budgets. Because we will fail if wine is

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Speaker 1: just for elite, college-educated, six-figure household income. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have to be able to ultimately create wines that

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Speaker 1: whatever price point you are drinking at, people feel good

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Speaker 1: about the value that they’re getting.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 3: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

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Speaker 3: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah,

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Speaker 3: if I look back at the themes that we’ve covered

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Speaker 3: off in Brave Commerce, just off the top of my head,

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Speaker 3: I feel like We covered retail media at length. We

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Speaker 3: probably spent a few years talking about that. And then

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Speaker 3: in the last two years, I think we’ve also been

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Speaker 3: talking about the decline in the BevAlc category because of

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Speaker 3: changing consumer taste preferences. Let’s see, organizational design, different career paths.

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Speaker 3: Any other themes come to mind?

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Speaker 2: I think you’ve covered on all of them. It’s interesting

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Speaker 2: what your point on BevAlc, just because I feel like

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Speaker 2: of our first 30 guests, like 10 of them were

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Speaker 2: BevAlloc and it was just at the onset of COVID

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Speaker 2: and everything was going up into the right. And now

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Speaker 2: we have some new guests that are coming up with

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Speaker 2: these ideas on how we’re going to turn from the

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Speaker 2: downward trends back into the upward trends. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: your point on BevAlloc is really well placed. We’ve talked

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Speaker 2: about inflation and the impact of inflation. We have had

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Speaker 2: lots of discussions about the role that AI plays.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: And we’ve had multiple conversations about the change in consumer behavior.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And it’s interesting.

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Speaker 3: You know, we get guests on the show. We start

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Speaker 3: to identify these themes. And not to say that our

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Speaker 3: guests don’t have distinct point of views, but we start

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Speaker 3: to hear the same thing over and over. What I

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Speaker 3: find interesting is that we’re about to get a alcohol

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Speaker 3: guest onto the show. We know we’ve had a lot

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Speaker 3: of those. But Britt is coming to the table with

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Speaker 3: a perspective we have not heard yet. on why he

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Speaker 3: feels the Bev Out category has fallen behind. I don’t

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Speaker 3: want to give too much away because I actually found

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Speaker 3: his perspective so refreshing and it’s his, so we should

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Speaker 3: let Britt speak to it. But without further ado, let’s

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Speaker 3: bring Britt onto the show.

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Speaker 2: Well, talking about commerce, I’m with the chief commercial officer,

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Speaker 2: of Galiwan and Spirits here today, Britt West. Britt, thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for joining us. We have been waiting

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Speaker 2: highly impatiently for this moment.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys. I think it was going both

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Speaker 1: ways too on the waiting.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I take plenty of accountability on this one. Scheduling

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Speaker 2: with busy people is always a hard thing to do.

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Speaker 1: I’m happy to be here and thank you guys for

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Speaker 1: inviting me.

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Speaker 2: I’d love to dig in specifically to, you know, obviously

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Speaker 2: your core area of expertise, which would be the wine category.

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Speaker 2: And as an aficionado, it hurts me when I see

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Speaker 2: that the category is hurting. You guys are the largest

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Speaker 2: wine supplier. You can’t fix it alone. You need partners.

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Speaker 2: You need distributors. You need retailers. You need restaurants. You

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Speaker 2: need consumers. Who are you looking to as like your

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Speaker 2: pillars to show up differently to get this training on

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Speaker 2: a better track?

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Speaker 1: It is a big challenge. There is no doubt. But

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Speaker 1: I would also say the reason I’ve been asked to

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Speaker 1: work on this challenge is that it wasn’t that long

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Speaker 1: ago in the mid-90s that spirits was in the exact

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Speaker 1: same situation, becoming increasingly irrelevant, an aging population. lack of

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Speaker 1: recruitment on down the line, right? And so there’s good

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Speaker 1: precedent to be optimistic. I’m a glass half full person. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, I kind of believe you wake up and

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Speaker 1: get going. Why sit around? You know, to your point,

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Speaker 1: and I think most of your listeners probably know that

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Speaker 1: beverage alcohol is a unique industry because of the high

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Speaker 1: regulation and how it’s segmented into the various tiers that

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Speaker 1: you talked about. But I think fundamentally at the heart

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Speaker 1: of it, there’s a consumer issue. And so I try

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Speaker 1: to work starting there and work my way backwards up

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Speaker 1: the tiers of the retail, the restaurants, the bars, the distributors,

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Speaker 1: and work all the way through it. But I think

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Speaker 1: if you were at 30,000 feet, summarize this, you would

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Speaker 1: say that the baby boomer generation was an unbelievably good

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Speaker 1: wine generation. And that as premiumization was occurring, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of starting in the late 90s, early 2000s, the

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Speaker 1: wine industry looked great, because everything was going up, the

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Speaker 1: dollars were just going up and up and up and up.

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Speaker 1: But people weren’t looking at the future And I don’t

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Speaker 1: think we’re as concerned about recruitment and making sure that

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Speaker 1: you are constantly filling the base with future consumers. And

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Speaker 1: I think that’s really the gap that we’re trying to

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Speaker 1: address right now is the gap that was created in

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Speaker 1: that period where premiumization made everything look good, but the

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Speaker 1: penetration and the lack of recruitment towards legal drinking age

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Speaker 1: younger people wasn’t there in wine. It was being filled

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Speaker 1: in craft beer. It was being filled in spirits and

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Speaker 1: the cocktail renaissance, et cetera. That’s not where wine was focused.

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Speaker 1: It’s so funny.

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Speaker 3: We’ve had so many different alcohol leaders onto the show,

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Speaker 3: and no one has articulated the paradigm shift in the

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Speaker 3: way that you have. Because what was absent from your

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Speaker 3: outlook were things like GLP-1 and just the pandemic and

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Speaker 3: people becoming more conscious of their health. You’re like, no, no,

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Speaker 3: this is just… Pretty simple. Since the 90s, we haven’t

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Speaker 3: been recruiting new people into the category.

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Speaker 1: Rachel, to your point, yes, those things are out there.

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Speaker 1: But I think in the grand scheme of things, they’re

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Speaker 1: small compared to recruitment. And I don’t think wine has

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Speaker 1: embraced and made itself relevant. We can talk about the

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Speaker 1: different consumer segments where I think they’ve missed out on.

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Speaker 1: But fundamentally, if we go and do our job against recruitment,

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Speaker 1: Those other things, you know, the World Health Organization, like

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Speaker 1: you said, GLP-1s or moderation, they will take care of themselves.

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Speaker 3: I love when assessments come back to basics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so that’s really what you articulated. Now, what do

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Speaker 3: you see as the playbook that’s needed for the turnaround?

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Speaker 1: It sits in a couple of areas. We can talk

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Speaker 1: about it. If I was to put it in three buckets,

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Speaker 1: I would say, approachability, affordability, and then I would say

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Speaker 1: cultural relevance. The approachability part of it to me, probably

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Speaker 1: many of your listeners at some point in their life

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Speaker 1: that they’re honest with themselves have been there in wine.

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Speaker 1: It is not great when you do consumer research on

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Speaker 1: wine and you say, if you’re a beverage alcohol consumer,

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Speaker 1: what’s the number one reason you don’t choose wine? And

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Speaker 1: people say fear of making a mistake. And that’s a

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Speaker 1: hard dose of reality in my mind. Because what we

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Speaker 1: did during that premiumization time was we told you that

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Speaker 1: you needed to understand regions. You needed to understand sub-regions.

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Speaker 1: You had to know varietals and countries and years and winemakers. And, oh,

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Speaker 1: do you know the right food and wine pairings? I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is an insider code that you better know or

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Speaker 1: you’re not invited to the club unless you’re Someone who

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Speaker 1: wants to really dig into it, that’s a pretty hard

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Speaker 1: way to have to come into something. And certainly I

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Speaker 1: don’t think it’s how younger millennials and Gen Z saw

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Speaker 1: wanting to appreciate beverage alcohol. So I think that’s a

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Speaker 1: big piece. The approachability piece, we’ve got to fix. And

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Speaker 1: there’s a lot of ways to try to go about that.

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Speaker 1: But I also don’t think that retailers, since on your

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Speaker 1: show we like to look at the full gamut here, retailers…

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Speaker 1: That wine aisle is intimidating. A thousand SKUs sitting on

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Speaker 1: a shelf in a grocery store, and you’ve got to

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Speaker 1: go as a consumer and decipher it all somehow. So

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Speaker 1: there’s a great deal of work, in my opinion, around

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Speaker 1: this approachability piece that needs to get done. And I

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Speaker 1: can talk to you about even just from a format perspective,

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Speaker 1: maybe how we’re trying to solve that as well.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about the formats? Because I’m totally with you.

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Speaker 2: So I only got into wine relatively recently. And then

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Speaker 2: I got like really into wine, maybe a little bit too,

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Speaker 2: but that’s a different conversation. But I do deeply believe

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Speaker 2: that there is a massive amount of insecurity of like,

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Speaker 2: am I picking the right wine? Am I going to

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Speaker 2: mess it up? And the barrier to entry could be,

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Speaker 2: you know, a price point because you don’t want to

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Speaker 2: buy a cheap bottle of wine. If you buy a

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Speaker 2: cheap bottle of wine, it’s not good. So then what

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Speaker 2: becomes my willingness to enter the category? And you have

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Speaker 2: challenge that sacred cow of the 750 milliliter which I

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Speaker 2: am big fan of big fan of challenging it because

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Speaker 2: I think it brings the education and it makes it

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Speaker 2: more approachable to your point but also it lets people

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Speaker 2: get to a point of trying without massive amounts of

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Speaker 2: fear of wastage or whatever it is. However, you found

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Speaker 2: the rest of your universe and the distributors and the

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Speaker 2: retailers reacting to that when they’re so reticent to change

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Speaker 2: in general.

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Speaker 1: It’s just now coming online, but the early results are excellent.

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Speaker 1: What we’re talking about here specifically, some of your listeners

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Speaker 1: may know whining camps. That’s not actually what we’re talking about.

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Speaker 1: What we’re talking about is the 200 ml Tetra format.

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Speaker 1: The boxes. Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 2: I just want to contextualize for our listeners. So Tetra

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Speaker 2: would be, let’s just explain what that is.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 1: Your soup comes in it, right? If you buy like

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Speaker 1: an organic soup or your.

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Speaker 2: Or almond milk or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Almond milk, exactly. Why is that format important? It’s important

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Speaker 1: from a trial perspective, as you said, because now, you know,

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Speaker 1: I always say, you know, A consumer wants one glass

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Speaker 1: of wine and we were trying to sell them four

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Speaker 1: and a half, right? And that was basically, right, just

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Speaker 1: a complete mismatch. And when you think about it compared

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Speaker 1: to other types of beverage, alcohol, distilled spirits, you could

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Speaker 1: buy a 50 ml. You can buy a smaller size,

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Speaker 1: see if you like it. Craft beer, you can buy

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Speaker 1: singles and see, oh, what kind of IPA do I

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Speaker 1: like actually, you know? So the 200 ml Tetra is

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Speaker 1: important because It actually, from a quality and freshness perspective,

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Speaker 1: is the single best innovation you can put wine in

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Speaker 1: as opposed to glass. It is better than the can format.

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Speaker 1: And so from that standpoint, we’re really believing that if

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Speaker 1: we want everyone’s first experience when they try one of

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Speaker 1: our wines to be a great experience, Tetra offers the

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Speaker 1: best possibility. It’s interesting because then you start going down

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Speaker 1: the rabbit hole on it. I mean, that’s maybe thinking

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Speaker 1: about it at retail, whether it’s a weeknight or whether

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Speaker 1: I’m just buying a warm meal at the grocery store.

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Speaker 1: There’s all kinds of applications for it. But there’s also

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Speaker 1: applications in restaurants and bars because not everything is a

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Speaker 1: fine dining, you know, nice white tablecloth restaurant, right? There

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Speaker 1: are bars and casual places all over that didn’t like

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Speaker 1: carrying wine because if a consumer walked in and asked, oh,

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Speaker 1: could I have a glass of Chardonnay? They were basically, again,

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Speaker 1: opening four glasses of Chardonnay and not knowing when they

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Speaker 1: might have the next consumer ask for one. And there

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Speaker 1: was a high perish rate. And so there was significant

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Speaker 1: amount of waste that was being passed on to the consumer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, most people don’t know, but a rule of

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Speaker 1: thumb from a restaurant and operator standpoint was I recouped

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Speaker 1: the entire cost of my bottle on glass one. That’s

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Speaker 1: a steep price to pay. I mean, if you’re a consumer,

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Speaker 1: you are paying for the next three people that may

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Speaker 1: or may not drink that product. And then when you

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Speaker 1: start to go down the rabbit hole, you see festivals.

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Speaker 1: There’s people that don’t drink beer at, you know, a

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Speaker 1: music festival and are really happy, but you can’t have

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Speaker 1: glass at a festival, right? And so, you know, resealability

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Speaker 1: is also a very interesting one because people, you know,

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Speaker 1: at music festivals or sporting events, right? It’s nice to

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Speaker 1: be able to reseal it, maybe put it in my

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Speaker 1: purse or put it in a pocket and like, I’ll

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Speaker 1: finish it when I’m ready to finish. It was just

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Speaker 1: a lot there in terms of that, of that format

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Speaker 1: to like. And then, you know, Rachel, as you said,

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Speaker 1: I mean, about, you know, GLP-1s, there are people that

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Speaker 1: are looking for portion control. I mean, right? You see

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Speaker 1: it across other CPG. And so, you know, this also

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Speaker 1: gives that opportunity to go down there.

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Speaker 3: So going with your framework, approachability and affordability feels like

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Speaker 3: we sort of checked at a high level. The last

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Speaker 3: one you said was cultural relevance.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: And so is that where the differentiation comes in? Because

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Speaker 3: everything prior, if Gallo’s leading the way and it works,

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Speaker 3: I assume all the other portfolios are going to follow.

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Speaker 1: Let me touch on one more thing on affordability, because

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Speaker 1: I think it is a job to be done. Sarah

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Speaker 1: said the words, afraid about buying a cheap wine. We

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Speaker 1: need to get back in the conversation of providing good

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Speaker 1: value at different price points for different budgets, because we

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Speaker 1: will fail if wine is just for elite, college-educated, six-figure

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Speaker 1: household income. So, I mean, we have to be able

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Speaker 1: to ultimately create wines that whatever price point you are

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Speaker 1: drinking at, people feel good about the value that they’re

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Speaker 1: getting there. And I do think that, yes, that size

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Speaker 1: then helps you in that regard because if you look

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Speaker 1: across other types of beverage alcohol, you often see it’s

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Speaker 1: about the $ 2 a drink where people are thinking in

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Speaker 1: their head. And so, if I’m buying a $ 7. 50 of vodka,

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Speaker 1: that equates to about $ 2. 50 a cocktail. If I’m buying

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Speaker 1: a beer, an imported beer, it equates to about $ 2

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Speaker 1: a beer. So there’s a magic number in that $ 1. 50

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Speaker 1: to $ 2 range. To your point about moving on to

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Speaker 1: cultural relevance, there’s so many places and spaces and consumer

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Speaker 1: groups where wine just hasn’t shown up to be relevant.

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Speaker 1: We all know the demographics of the Hispanic population. Growing

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Speaker 1: particularly Mexican and Mexican-American growing in the United States. And

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Speaker 1: I look at the back labels of a lot of

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Speaker 1: our wine brands that we’re trying to speak to them.

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Speaker 1: And then we say things like, great with a tomato-based

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Speaker 1: pasta sauce. And you kind of sit there and you say, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a second here. Like, is that really going to

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Speaker 1: be culturally relevant to them?

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: I’m sure a lot of Mexican-Americans do eat pasta. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, If we really want to talk about wine

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Speaker 1: and food together, we need to be talking about all

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Speaker 1: different kinds of food. And I just don’t think we’ve

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Speaker 1: done a very good job on the Hispanic consumer base

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Speaker 1: of really trying to bring wine into, because they’re great

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Speaker 1: beverage alcohol consumers, strong in beer, strong in distilled spirits,

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Speaker 1: but not wine. We have work to do there. You know,

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Speaker 1: this cultural attachment piece is a lot of something I’ve

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Speaker 1: challenged our brands and brand teams to really go after.

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Speaker 1: So you can think about Barefoot and the NFL. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people were scratching their heads and saying, what

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Speaker 1: does Barefoot have to do with the NFL? Well, we

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Speaker 1: needed to start somewhere, and that’s a pretty large audience

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Speaker 1: base to start to go after. And the success we

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Speaker 1: saw with the NFL, it was bringing about between two,

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Speaker 1: two and a half million new consumers into wine every year.

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Speaker 1: But it gave us the confidence that we could really

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Speaker 1: start to look elsewhere too. Just within the past week,

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Speaker 1: we’ve announced two deals. One, which was on Mark West,

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Speaker 1: which is America’s number one Pinot Noir. We announced the

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Speaker 1: Mark West deal with Major League Baseball. Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: is having a moment. It appeals to younger males. It

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Speaker 1: also touches on that Hispanic community. And then we also

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Speaker 1: announced a deal with a with Vibe, which was the

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Speaker 1: deal with the minor league baseball. So we’re trying to

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Speaker 1: do and lift things in ways where I would say

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Speaker 1: our other competitors in beverage alcohol, being beer and spirits,

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Speaker 1: have shown up, and wine just hasn’t shown up before,

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Speaker 1: to give it a fresh take on it.

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Speaker 2: So what do you think the role of digital is

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Speaker 2: in that regard? Because people could be searching for one,

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Speaker 2: you can serve up another. The digital shelf is a

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Speaker 2: great opportunity to do so. You’re talking about these more

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Speaker 2: marquee this where the fish are, it does digital play

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Speaker 2: a role here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. It’s interesting because wine is largely an

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Speaker 1: impulse purchase. And so matching the digital space into what

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Speaker 1: is largely an impulse purchase space is critical because, and

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Speaker 1: I think that’s when, once we can break down that

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Speaker 1: barrier to trial and fear, then we start to see

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Speaker 1: the role that brand plays and certainly that brand in

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Speaker 1: the digital space plays can really make a huge difference

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Speaker 1: because when I find something I like, now I’m that

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Speaker 1: much more apt to keep it in my basket and

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Speaker 1: refresh and become a repeat consumer of it. And we

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Speaker 1: see that the data supports that a lot, is that

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Speaker 1: if you can get into the basket with wine, you

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Speaker 1: have a great potential of creating strong lifetime value with

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Speaker 1: the consumer, which is terrific. But I think also, Amplifying

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Speaker 1: some of these culturally relevant moments, too, is part of

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Speaker 1: the digital space that we need to get better at.

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Speaker 1: If you close your eyes and think about what kind

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Speaker 1: of wine presence and branding you see in the digital space,

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Speaker 1: I don’t know how your dinner parties look, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: those are pretty fancy dinner parties. There’s a lot of stemware.

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Speaker 1: There’s a lot of meals that look like you must

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Speaker 1: have slaved over it all day long. And we’re trying to,

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Speaker 1: in the digital space, make wine feel a lot more like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is good on a Tuesday. And it doesn’t have

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Speaker 1: to be in stemware. And it doesn’t have to be with,

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Speaker 1: you know, your eight friends seated at the table, which

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Speaker 1: with the perfect flower arrangement and the perfect, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, the stereotypes I’m talking about.

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Speaker 3: Well, Britt, we could pick your brain all day around

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Speaker 3: cultural insights that are impacting business at large, but we

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Speaker 3: got to ask you our famous last question. What’s the

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Speaker 3: bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: I consulted my wife on this. I asked and she said,

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Speaker 1: by far, marry a Brazilian. And then she said, no, seriously,

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Speaker 1: you should think about it. But it was a good answer.

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Speaker 1: You can find this if you dig deep enough. I

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Speaker 1: left home at 14. And I had a career as

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Speaker 1: a childhood actor. I did two national tours, one of

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Speaker 1: Mame and one of Peter Pan. And then I was

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Speaker 1: in the Broadway revival of Peter Pan. But I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about your question. And I learned about all walks

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Speaker 1: of life. I visited 40 states in 18 months. I

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Speaker 1: saw different cities. I saw different kinds of people, how

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Speaker 1: they lived. I truly believe it is what makes me

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Speaker 1: so fascinated about consumers today, that kind of the passion

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Speaker 1: for that really began there. But my parents still kind

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Speaker 1: of scratch their heads and don’t really understand how they

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Speaker 1: agreed to this all, to let me walk out the

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Speaker 1: door at 14.

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Speaker 2: That’s pretty extraordinary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. What role were you in Peter Pan?

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Speaker 1: I played John Darling in Peter Pan and I played

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Speaker 1: young Patrick in Mame.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I am looking at the playbill right now. Oh,

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Speaker 2: my goodness. The question really becomes, do you let us

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Speaker 2: promote this when we release this episode?

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Speaker 1: Feel free to i took the question seriously i mean

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Speaker 1: so i really tried to think about it because i

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Speaker 1: you know i remember when i left and started my

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Speaker 1: own company when i left picardy and i was like

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Speaker 1: but a lot of people do that i mean like

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Speaker 1: yeah it was it was a little scary but i

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Speaker 1: mean like i don’t think it was the bravest.

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Speaker 3: Thing i’ve ever done wow that was so unexpected brett

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Speaker 3: and we really appreciate you sharing do you still sing

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Speaker 3: and dance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah i keep threatening to you Now, some would say

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Speaker 1: at our national sales meeting they have seen these kind

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Speaker 1: of performances, but I don’t know. I live in a

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Speaker 1: small place, and I always say that one day I’d

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Speaker 1: like to return to community theater and do community theater.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: This seems to be working out well for you. So

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Speaker 2: thank you for dropping your insights. But, you know, if

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Speaker 2: you ever do want to get back in there, it’s

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Speaker 2: always good to have a backup plan. So thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for joining us. It was worth the wait.

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Speaker 2: My apologies for the delay in getting this up and running,

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Speaker 2: but I know our listeners can be thrilled.

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Speaker 1: Well, that’s awesome. Thank you. And I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Happy to talk about this as a subject. I wake

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Speaker 1: up every morning and feel it never feels like work

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Speaker 1: because it’s a real challenge to try to go fix. Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: Fabulous.

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Speaker 3: If you like what you heard and you want to

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Speaker 3: continue thinking about cultures, meaning company cultures, that foster product innovation,

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Speaker 3: check out an episode we recorded last year with Proximo

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Speaker 3: Spirit’s Lander. And again, if you like what you heard,

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Speaker 3: write a review, tell a friend.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand

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Speaker 2: Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth,

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00:23:13,730 –> 00:23:17,340
Speaker 2: a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My

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00:23:17,380 –> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet

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00:23:20,640 –> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 2: everyone once. As a result, I’ve met some of the

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00:23:23,140 –> 00:23:25,780
Speaker 2: most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet.

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Speaker 1: Now on Touch of Truth, we’re coming centre stage and

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00:23:29,240 –> 00:23:32,570
Speaker 1: sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and

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00:23:32,609 –> 00:23:33,870
Speaker 1: visions for the future that.

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00:23:33,780 –> 00:23:35,340
Speaker 2: Will challenge your way of thinking.

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Speaker 1: Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to

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Speaker 2: see you there.