1
00:00:01,780 –> 00:00:05,519
Speaker 1: I make decisions based on the information and the context

2
00:00:05,540 –> 00:00:07,620
Speaker 1: that’s in front of me. I think your ability to

3
00:00:07,680 –> 00:00:11,660
Speaker 1: say 180 days from now or a year from now,

4
00:00:11,960 –> 00:00:14,950
Speaker 1: the world or the context has changed. I’ve changed my mind.

5
00:00:15,090 –> 00:00:17,530
Speaker 1: I think that’s such an important part of leaders today

6
00:00:18,130 –> 00:00:20,669
Speaker 1: as we live in this kind of rapidly changing consumer

7
00:00:20,690 –> 00:00:21,750
Speaker 1: and market landscape.

8
00:00:24,200 –> 00:00:28,110
Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

9
00:00:28,230 –> 00:00:30,910
Speaker 3: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

10
00:00:30,970 –> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 3: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah,

11
00:00:43,740 –> 00:00:47,870
Speaker 3: I’m constantly thinking about the next generation of talent. Like,

12
00:00:48,220 –> 00:00:51,680
Speaker 3: kids who are in college right now or recently graduated.

13
00:00:52,140 –> 00:00:55,000
Speaker 3: And I feel for them because we all know there’s

14
00:00:55,120 –> 00:00:59,779
Speaker 3: far less entry-level jobs given the market conditions. And I’m

15
00:00:59,800 –> 00:01:02,430
Speaker 3: just curious, like if you have any insight, especially with

16
00:01:02,450 –> 00:01:07,410
Speaker 3: your new company, 37Arc, on what jobs young people are

17
00:01:07,430 –> 00:01:08,030
Speaker 3: getting today.

18
00:01:08,510 –> 00:01:11,050
Speaker 2: Yeah, it hits close to home because, you know, my

19
00:01:11,090 –> 00:01:14,720
Speaker 2: kids are early on in their careers and thankfully both

20
00:01:14,750 –> 00:01:16,120
Speaker 2: gainfully employed, at least.

21
00:01:15,940 –> 00:01:16,360
Speaker 4: As of now.

22
00:01:18,180 –> 00:01:22,020
Speaker 2: And there’s so much with this removal of that entry-level

23
00:01:22,060 –> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 2: job that puts so much pressure on kids in college

24
00:01:26,780 –> 00:01:30,410
Speaker 2: to start gaining that experience in college or start building

25
00:01:30,440 –> 00:01:33,620
Speaker 2: their network while in college. The amount of phone calls

26
00:01:33,670 –> 00:01:36,310
Speaker 2: that I’ve gotten over the past, I think, nine months

27
00:01:36,390 –> 00:01:41,050
Speaker 2: or so from people who are sophomores and juniors in

28
00:01:41,110 –> 00:01:45,030
Speaker 2: college who recognize where things are going. and are trying

29
00:01:45,050 –> 00:01:47,750
Speaker 2: to start building their networks versus the way it was

30
00:01:47,830 –> 00:01:50,350
Speaker 2: just a couple of years ago, where people were waiting

31
00:01:50,390 –> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 2: until they were two or three months from graduation and

32
00:01:53,320 –> 00:01:56,020
Speaker 2: then starting. There’s a shift. But I think that that’s

33
00:01:56,040 –> 00:02:02,380
Speaker 2: a sub-segment of the number of people who are going

34
00:02:02,420 –> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 2: to be entering the market. Like the ones who are

35
00:02:04,000 –> 00:02:06,670
Speaker 2: reaching out to you and me are the ones that

36
00:02:06,700 –> 00:02:08,870
Speaker 2: are actually going to end up getting the jobs because

37
00:02:09,050 –> 00:02:12,630
Speaker 2: they’re prepared and they see that that she’s moved. There’s

38
00:02:12,650 –> 00:02:15,130
Speaker 2: been so much conversation in the past generation about the

39
00:02:15,190 –> 00:02:17,750
Speaker 2: importance of grit and resilience and all that other stuff.

40
00:02:18,550 –> 00:02:21,810
Speaker 2: And now is no different. It’s just what you do

41
00:02:21,940 –> 00:02:25,040
Speaker 2: about it and how early you start in it is changing.

42
00:02:25,639 –> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 2: How are you thinking about the way your workforce is

43
00:02:28,180 –> 00:02:30,139
Speaker 2: even composed going forward?

44
00:02:30,480 –> 00:02:36,549
Speaker 3: The crazy thing about MCMAT is that we haven’t hired

45
00:02:37,650 –> 00:02:45,940
Speaker 3: an entry-level employee since the year 2021. Wow. Yeah. Sarah Donahue,

46
00:02:45,980 –> 00:02:48,820
Speaker 3: who’s our producer, who people don’t ever know behind the scenes,

47
00:02:49,260 –> 00:02:53,070
Speaker 3: she was a part of that last class of entry-level

48
00:02:53,110 –> 00:03:00,580
Speaker 3: employees that we recruited. And that’s because we began to leverage…

49
00:03:00,889 –> 00:03:06,250
Speaker 3: tools for automation. We also began to leverage offshore resources

50
00:03:06,870 –> 00:03:08,269
Speaker 3: as we scaled as a company.

51
00:03:08,570 –> 00:03:11,610
Speaker 2: It’s interesting. So I am wondering how much AI becomes

52
00:03:11,650 –> 00:03:15,389
Speaker 2: the new offshoring, you know, the ripple effects associated with that.

53
00:03:15,910 –> 00:03:18,530
Speaker 2: But I think no matter what, whether you’re hiring somebody

54
00:03:19,440 –> 00:03:23,820
Speaker 2: early in their career or for succession planning, there are

55
00:03:23,860 –> 00:03:27,660
Speaker 2: certain non-negotiables you need to find in people today. And

56
00:03:28,340 –> 00:03:30,620
Speaker 2: that grit and perseverance are certainly a big part of it.

57
00:03:30,919 –> 00:03:34,490
Speaker 2: In our conversation with Rob Master today, there’s just certain

58
00:03:34,530 –> 00:03:38,730
Speaker 2: things that like are just timeless fundamentals that often get

59
00:03:39,390 –> 00:03:42,150
Speaker 2: discarded when you’re looking for, oh, well, how much are

60
00:03:42,190 –> 00:03:45,930
Speaker 2: they into AI or whatever, you know, the bright, shiny

61
00:03:46,010 –> 00:03:46,869
Speaker 2: object du jour is.

62
00:03:47,130 –> 00:03:48,450
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in a nutshell, what we’re going to

63
00:03:48,470 –> 00:03:50,790
Speaker 3: hear from Rob is that the hard skills are going

64
00:03:50,810 –> 00:03:53,070
Speaker 3: to matter less and less and the soft skills are

65
00:03:53,090 –> 00:03:55,950
Speaker 3: going to matter more and more. So let’s bring Rob

66
00:03:56,030 –> 00:04:00,390
Speaker 3: onto the show. Today, we are very excited to have

67
00:04:00,430 –> 00:04:04,330
Speaker 3: an old friend, Rob Master, Chief Marketing Officer at Edgewell

68
00:04:04,410 –> 00:04:07,020
Speaker 3: Personal Care, onto the show. Hey, Rob.

69
00:04:07,040 –> 00:04:09,460
Speaker 1: Hey, guys. Great to be with you. Very excited to

70
00:04:09,480 –> 00:04:10,740
Speaker 1: be on the podcast today.

71
00:04:10,920 –> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 3: We can’t wait to catch up. But before we get

72
00:04:14,140 –> 00:04:17,469
Speaker 3: into all things Edgewell, I feel like you’re a great

73
00:04:17,610 –> 00:04:22,190
Speaker 3: person to talk about the future of marketing as a career,

74
00:04:22,330 –> 00:04:25,839
Speaker 3: given that you are teaching marketing and at the University

75
00:04:25,860 –> 00:04:26,600
Speaker 3: of Wisconsin.

76
00:04:26,660 –> 00:04:26,860
Speaker 1: Yes.

77
00:04:27,200 –> 00:04:31,030
Speaker 3: So I can only imagine the angst that these students

78
00:04:31,070 –> 00:04:34,870
Speaker 3: might feel in the classroom as they enter the workforce

79
00:04:34,930 –> 00:04:38,390
Speaker 3: against the backdrop of AI. As a professor, how are

80
00:04:38,430 –> 00:04:40,050
Speaker 3: you preparing students for this?

81
00:04:40,550 –> 00:04:44,770
Speaker 1: Great question. And I think it’s amazing how the difference

82
00:04:44,830 –> 00:04:47,020
Speaker 1: of a couple of years can make. So this is

83
00:04:47,060 –> 00:04:50,359
Speaker 1: my sixth year teaching I’m coming into now. And I

84
00:04:50,400 –> 00:04:58,620
Speaker 1: remember so vividly, it was office hours, December 1st, 2022.

85
00:04:58,620 –> 00:05:02,720
Speaker 1: ChatGPT had launched on November 30th. And I had a

86
00:05:02,779 –> 00:05:05,580
Speaker 1: student come to my class, to my office hours, and

87
00:05:05,620 –> 00:05:08,420
Speaker 1: was like, Professor Mastin, you’ve got to check out this thing, ChatGPT.

88
00:05:09,210 –> 00:05:11,240
Speaker 1: And I read about in the journal, I heard some

89
00:05:11,279 –> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 1: buzz about it, but I feel like it took a

90
00:05:13,740 –> 00:05:16,870
Speaker 1: lot of us like by surprise. And so I remember

91
00:05:16,910 –> 00:05:20,390
Speaker 1: him like, powering up his computer in office hours and

92
00:05:20,430 –> 00:05:23,240
Speaker 1: like working through with me. And what was interesting was

93
00:05:23,320 –> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 1: it was like not much to do about nothing at

94
00:05:25,140 –> 00:05:27,700
Speaker 1: the time. Like he was asking all these questions. It

95
00:05:27,720 –> 00:05:30,500
Speaker 1: wasn’t giving any good answers, but you could just see

96
00:05:30,580 –> 00:05:34,440
Speaker 1: like his excitement and frankly, like the power of potential

97
00:05:34,720 –> 00:05:39,990
Speaker 1: in that office hours on that Thursday in December of 2022.

98
00:05:40,029 –> 00:05:42,810
Speaker 1: And then just to track what transpired over the next

99
00:05:42,850 –> 00:05:46,349
Speaker 1: couple of months was frankly remarkable. So much so it actually,

100
00:05:46,370 –> 00:05:50,370
Speaker 1: it changed my entire curriculum, how I grade. And what’s

101
00:05:50,410 –> 00:05:52,470
Speaker 1: interesting is I came back the next fall because I

102
00:05:52,510 –> 00:05:55,270
Speaker 1: only teach in the fall. So that spring semester I

103
00:05:55,310 –> 00:05:59,190
Speaker 1: wasn’t teaching and just like chat GPT and then the

104
00:05:59,270 –> 00:06:02,280
Speaker 1: other LLMs kind of came out of nowhere and like

105
00:06:02,360 –> 00:06:05,410
Speaker 1: took the industry and frankly the world by storm. And

106
00:06:05,470 –> 00:06:09,210
Speaker 1: so I came back the next fall in 2023 and

107
00:06:09,330 –> 00:06:12,930
Speaker 1: talked a lot about, hey, I’m not sure our academic

108
00:06:12,970 –> 00:06:17,930
Speaker 1: institutions are prepared for this, but this class, it’s important

109
00:06:17,950 –> 00:06:20,190
Speaker 1: for you to understand the future. And you definitely should

110
00:06:20,210 –> 00:06:22,239
Speaker 1: be leaning in at every turn and using this as

111
00:06:22,260 –> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 1: a companion for your educational experience, including my class. And

112
00:06:27,779 –> 00:06:31,900
Speaker 1: I talk a lot about this democratization of information and knowledge.

113
00:06:32,120 –> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: And I think that’s what like these LMs have begun

114
00:06:34,500 –> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 1: to do. And so I think we’ve heard a lot

115
00:06:37,020 –> 00:06:40,419
Speaker 1: about like over the last couple of years, EQ, emotional quotient,

116
00:06:40,460 –> 00:06:43,440
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And even more recently, like CQ,

117
00:06:43,520 –> 00:06:47,140
Speaker 1: curiosity quotient. And those are the things I really focus

118
00:06:47,220 –> 00:06:50,419
Speaker 1: on in terms of preparing my students for what’s coming.

119
00:06:50,980 –> 00:06:54,180
Speaker 1: Because to some degree, I think like knowledge and information

120
00:06:54,279 –> 00:06:57,780
Speaker 1: really is going to be democratized. And so what you

121
00:06:57,800 –> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 1: sometimes learned in school and the expertise you gained through

122
00:07:01,550 –> 00:07:05,910
Speaker 1: like knowledge is now it’s like accessible and scalable to everybody.

123
00:07:06,070 –> 00:07:09,590
Speaker 1: And I think the difference of young people today is

124
00:07:09,630 –> 00:07:12,330
Speaker 1: really what is their EQ and what is their CQ?

125
00:07:12,570 –> 00:07:14,270
Speaker 1: And those are the things I really talk a lot

126
00:07:14,310 –> 00:07:17,540
Speaker 1: about and the soft skills, how to understand what you’re

127
00:07:17,880 –> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 1: kind of using AI for, how to use it differently.

128
00:07:21,300 –> 00:07:23,620
Speaker 1: But it will only like in the first pitch, forget

129
00:07:23,700 –> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 1: first inning of this, And so my focus is on

130
00:07:27,100 –> 00:07:30,150
Speaker 1: like the human being around and how to access it.

131
00:07:30,550 –> 00:07:33,350
Speaker 1: And those are the things I focus on. And I

132
00:07:33,390 –> 00:07:36,710
Speaker 1: think we as a generation like Gen X and millennials

133
00:07:36,750 –> 00:07:39,610
Speaker 1: take for granted some of the soft skills. And so

134
00:07:39,710 –> 00:07:42,060
Speaker 1: I focused a lot on the soft skills with them

135
00:07:42,460 –> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: and talking about getting into an office. being around people,

136
00:07:46,100 –> 00:07:48,980
Speaker 1: like that’s so important. Don’t take a job where you’re

137
00:07:49,000 –> 00:07:52,050
Speaker 1: remote or virtual when you’re coming out of college. It’s

138
00:07:52,080 –> 00:07:55,270
Speaker 1: this importance of CQ and EQ that’s so important. So

139
00:07:55,310 –> 00:07:57,570
Speaker 1: that’s really what I stress to them. And what’s interesting,

140
00:07:57,610 –> 00:07:58,850
Speaker 1: by the way, I’ve been doing this for a number

141
00:07:58,870 –> 00:08:01,750
Speaker 1: of years now, like it just wasn’t a thing four

142
00:08:01,790 –> 00:08:04,680
Speaker 1: years ago. And today with each passing year, students are

143
00:08:04,800 –> 00:08:06,940
Speaker 1: anxious about it and ask a lot more questions about it.

144
00:08:06,960 –> 00:08:10,060
Speaker 1: And I’ve certainly evolved my curriculum, both in grading, but

145
00:08:10,080 –> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 1: what I teach is every semester based on like what’s

146
00:08:13,720 –> 00:08:15,300
Speaker 1: happened over the last year in AI.

147
00:08:15,700 –> 00:08:19,020
Speaker 2: It’s a professional readiness as much as it is anything else, actually.

148
00:08:19,040 –> 00:08:21,990
Speaker 2: I wish my kids had gone to University of Wisconsin

149
00:08:22,460 –> 00:08:25,510
Speaker 2: after everything you just said. Alas, they’re just learning it

150
00:08:25,530 –> 00:08:26,050
Speaker 2: the hard way.

151
00:08:26,290 –> 00:08:26,690
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

152
00:08:27,370 –> 00:08:29,830
Speaker 2: As a CMO, you are also a teacher within your

153
00:08:29,910 –> 00:08:33,449
Speaker 2: own organization. So when you’re hiring more mature talent than

154
00:08:33,490 –> 00:08:36,609
Speaker 2: let’s say, you know, undergrads, there’s got to be certain

155
00:08:36,650 –> 00:08:39,130
Speaker 2: of those EQ and CQ skills that you’re looking for.

156
00:08:39,170 –> 00:08:42,230
Speaker 2: Do you think these things can be taught At that level,

157
00:08:42,429 –> 00:08:45,890
Speaker 2: like once you’ve been in the workforce 15, 20 years,

158
00:08:46,410 –> 00:08:48,910
Speaker 2: are these things that either you got it or you don’t?

159
00:08:49,350 –> 00:08:51,170
Speaker 2: At what point do you think, you know what, this

160
00:08:51,230 –> 00:08:51,979
Speaker 2: one’s a lost cause?

161
00:08:52,320 –> 00:08:55,420
Speaker 1: I think we’re much more resilient and agile than sometimes

162
00:08:55,440 –> 00:08:57,980
Speaker 1: we give ourselves credit for. I think when you’re talking

163
00:08:58,000 –> 00:09:00,340
Speaker 1: about seasoned employees, you talk about people who’ve been there

164
00:09:00,400 –> 00:09:02,780
Speaker 1: for a while. And as I think about like bringing

165
00:09:02,840 –> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 1: new people into the organization or as I’m evaluating current

166
00:09:05,380 –> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 1: people in the organization, with experience. Listen, to some degree,

167
00:09:09,380 –> 00:09:13,780
Speaker 1: I think seasoned people have some level of core experience

168
00:09:13,820 –> 00:09:16,650
Speaker 1: and capabilities. And you could see it in their LinkedIn

169
00:09:16,710 –> 00:09:18,949
Speaker 1: or their CV. It’s like, hey, do they have product

170
00:09:18,970 –> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 1: innovation experience? Do they have retail media experience? You get

171
00:09:22,640 –> 00:09:26,699
Speaker 1: a sense for that. The most important thing now outside

172
00:09:26,720 –> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 1: of some of these foundational capabilities who by and large

173
00:09:29,580 –> 00:09:32,420
Speaker 1: experienced people will have exactly what they are and the

174
00:09:32,460 –> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 1: relevancy depends on the role, but they by and large have.

175
00:09:35,420 –> 00:09:39,500
Speaker 1: For me, the number one thing by far is attitude.

176
00:09:40,490 –> 00:09:46,850
Speaker 1: It’s attitude toward adapting, attitude toward learning, attitude toward collaboration,

177
00:09:47,010 –> 00:09:50,530
Speaker 1: attitude toward bringing positive energy and a bias for action.

178
00:09:50,890 –> 00:09:53,350
Speaker 1: To me, that’s the most important thing, as I think

179
00:09:53,390 –> 00:09:56,670
Speaker 1: about people who’ve been around the marketplace, where maybe it’s

180
00:09:56,710 –> 00:09:59,710
Speaker 1: like the training and learning and experience, they’re still like

181
00:10:00,190 –> 00:10:03,929
Speaker 1: taking shape and younger colleagues or peers. But when you

182
00:10:03,950 –> 00:10:05,820
Speaker 1: get to like more your peers and people who’ve been

183
00:10:05,880 –> 00:10:08,200
Speaker 1: at this for a while, like that to me is

184
00:10:08,220 –> 00:10:11,380
Speaker 1: the most important thing, is the attitude and their approach.

185
00:10:11,640 –> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 1: Because that says it all about like, hey, the world

186
00:10:14,540 –> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 1: is changing rapidly. How do I adapt? The world is

187
00:10:17,420 –> 00:10:21,300
Speaker 1: changing rapidly. It’s scary and frightening, but also exhilarating. How

188
00:10:21,320 –> 00:10:24,520
Speaker 1: am I bringing positive energy to that? How do I collaborate?

189
00:10:24,620 –> 00:10:27,469
Speaker 1: So I think that attitude for me is the most

190
00:10:27,540 –> 00:10:30,150
Speaker 1: important thing I look for in both my current team

191
00:10:30,190 –> 00:10:32,190
Speaker 1: and then when I’m hiring people, what I would call

192
00:10:32,230 –> 00:10:35,550
Speaker 1: like the more seasoned people, seasoned candidates.

193
00:10:36,290 –> 00:10:38,170
Speaker 3: And do you think that trade is coachable?

194
00:10:38,490 –> 00:10:39,890
Speaker 1: I’ll kind of go back to what I opened with,

195
00:10:39,929 –> 00:10:43,500
Speaker 1: which is the resiliency. I think it is coachable. I

196
00:10:43,540 –> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 1: like to say all the time now that I make

197
00:10:46,840 –> 00:10:50,420
Speaker 1: decisions based on the information and the context that’s in

198
00:10:50,460 –> 00:10:52,559
Speaker 1: front of me. I think your ability to say 180

199
00:10:52,559 –> 00:10:57,140
Speaker 1: days from now or A year from now, the world

200
00:10:57,179 –> 00:10:59,770
Speaker 1: or the context has changed. I’ve changed my mind. I

201
00:10:59,790 –> 00:11:02,830
Speaker 1: think that’s such an important part of leaders today as

202
00:11:02,850 –> 00:11:05,390
Speaker 1: we live in this kind of rapidly changing consumer and

203
00:11:05,530 –> 00:11:09,540
Speaker 1: market landscape that you have to be comfortable like operating

204
00:11:09,580 –> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: differently and saying like, that’s what I said then. I’m

205
00:11:12,640 –> 00:11:15,170
Speaker 1: changing my mind. People who are set in their ways

206
00:11:15,250 –> 00:11:17,050
Speaker 1: and set in the way they operate and like they

207
00:11:17,090 –> 00:11:18,410
Speaker 1: make a decision, they want to see it all the

208
00:11:18,450 –> 00:11:21,520
Speaker 1: way through. I think that is just like that’s not relevant,

209
00:11:21,540 –> 00:11:23,380
Speaker 1: certainly in our industry. And I’m not sure what industry

210
00:11:23,400 –> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 1: that’s even relevant anymore anywhere. And so I always use

211
00:11:27,140 –> 00:11:29,979
Speaker 1: that example actually with my students, because I think people

212
00:11:30,020 –> 00:11:32,020
Speaker 1: want to like, I make a decision and I’m like

213
00:11:32,100 –> 00:11:34,500
Speaker 1: seeing it through and like, it’s a weakness to change

214
00:11:34,520 –> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 1: your mind. I just totally disagree now. I think a

215
00:11:37,250 –> 00:11:39,970
Speaker 1: strength is actually be able to like make a decision.

216
00:11:40,070 –> 00:11:42,930
Speaker 1: And then frankly, you get new information and you’re like,

217
00:11:43,250 –> 00:11:45,610
Speaker 1: I’m changing my mind. That’s not weakness. That’s, I think,

218
00:11:46,030 –> 00:11:48,650
Speaker 1: a recognition that the world around you has changed. Now,

219
00:11:48,670 –> 00:11:50,410
Speaker 1: of course, if you’re doing that constantly and all the

220
00:11:50,450 –> 00:11:54,130
Speaker 1: time and not based on great information, different story. But

221
00:11:54,270 –> 00:11:57,650
Speaker 1: I really think it’s important that people are able to

222
00:11:57,690 –> 00:12:00,460
Speaker 1: do that. And my sense is, even people with more

223
00:12:00,500 –> 00:12:04,260
Speaker 1: mature seasoned experience, like, listen, if it’s not coachable, then

224
00:12:04,280 –> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: they’re not the right fit for, I’m not sure what

225
00:12:06,380 –> 00:12:08,840
Speaker 1: job they’re set for, but they’re not the right fit

226
00:12:08,880 –> 00:12:10,380
Speaker 1: for like my organization.

227
00:12:11,220 –> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 3: So let’s dive a little bit deeper into your org.

228
00:12:14,320 –> 00:12:18,550
Speaker 3: So here you are at Edgewell, home to some great

229
00:12:18,590 –> 00:12:22,510
Speaker 3: brands like Schick and Banana Boat. As you think about

230
00:12:22,960 –> 00:12:28,020
Speaker 3: the growth strategy of these brands, how much of your

231
00:12:28,040 –> 00:12:31,890
Speaker 3: playbook or whatever you might be calling your plan moving

232
00:12:31,970 –> 00:12:35,910
Speaker 3: forward has essentially been the same as it would have

233
00:12:35,929 –> 00:12:39,429
Speaker 3: been 20 years ago? And what parts of it have

234
00:12:39,670 –> 00:12:42,690
Speaker 3: evolved because of the landscape that we now operate in?

235
00:12:42,929 –> 00:12:45,339
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that’s a great question. So I will start

236
00:12:45,360 –> 00:12:50,380
Speaker 1: with this. I still think that a powerful insight or

237
00:12:50,400 –> 00:12:55,090
Speaker 1: a consumer observation leads to a powerful or an amazing

238
00:12:55,190 –> 00:12:59,130
Speaker 1: breakthrough piece of creative, which then leads to a great

239
00:12:59,250 –> 00:13:03,080
Speaker 1: activation of that idea. I still think that holds true.

240
00:13:03,460 –> 00:13:06,679
Speaker 1: No matter the platforms, the landscape, the role AI plays,

241
00:13:07,420 –> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 1: the power of a great consumer understanding idea still is

242
00:13:11,780 –> 00:13:16,210
Speaker 1: so important. And I think that will, like, to some degree,

243
00:13:16,230 –> 00:13:20,250
Speaker 1: live in perpetuity. in marketing. Now, of course, the ability

244
00:13:20,270 –> 00:13:25,330
Speaker 1: for the landscape, specifically AI, to enhance or evolve every

245
00:13:25,510 –> 00:13:28,849
Speaker 1: aspect of that, from insights to creative elements to activation,

246
00:13:28,929 –> 00:13:32,569
Speaker 1: is really where the change is happening. I think too

247
00:13:32,670 –> 00:13:36,380
Speaker 1: often as marketers, we follow the siren song. We’re hearing

248
00:13:36,420 –> 00:13:38,980
Speaker 1: a siren song, we’re looking around, and we begin chasing.

249
00:13:39,000 –> 00:13:41,420
Speaker 1: And I think that’s been a problem for the last

250
00:13:41,480 –> 00:13:45,869
Speaker 1: decade or so, because there’s so many great Fancy platforms,

251
00:13:46,070 –> 00:13:48,290
Speaker 1: ad products that we all get so excited about and

252
00:13:48,309 –> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 1: we lose sight of the consumer. And I think that’s

253
00:13:52,380 –> 00:13:54,540
Speaker 1: the problem that’s going to come to us with AI

254
00:13:54,940 –> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 1: is that we’re just so caught up in AI, we’re

255
00:13:56,780 –> 00:13:58,559
Speaker 1: going to lose sight of the consumer. Now, don’t get

256
00:13:58,580 –> 00:14:01,500
Speaker 1: me wrong. I am not here to put any limits

257
00:14:01,580 –> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 1: on what AI can do. I think we’re just not

258
00:14:04,559 –> 00:14:06,770
Speaker 1: in a position to do that. And I think it’s

259
00:14:06,790 –> 00:14:09,530
Speaker 1: the capabilities we build around it and then how we

260
00:14:09,570 –> 00:14:13,100
Speaker 1: leverage AI in every aspect of the marketing ecosystem, which,

261
00:14:13,130 –> 00:14:15,679
Speaker 1: by the way, will be different today than it will

262
00:14:15,720 –> 00:14:18,440
Speaker 1: be in six months, in two years. You know, I

263
00:14:18,460 –> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: was in Cannes a couple of weeks ago, and this

264
00:14:21,760 –> 00:14:23,690
Speaker 1: is constantly a question that came up on a couple

265
00:14:23,710 –> 00:14:26,290
Speaker 1: of panels. And I heard a lot and I get

266
00:14:26,330 –> 00:14:30,030
Speaker 1: it with this creative like summit of like ideas and

267
00:14:30,090 –> 00:14:32,790
Speaker 1: people are like, you know, AI will never make like

268
00:14:33,190 –> 00:14:35,990
Speaker 1: your goosebumps, never make your hair stand up on your arms.

269
00:14:36,810 –> 00:14:39,810
Speaker 1: And I was like, I’m not ready to say that.

270
00:14:39,930 –> 00:14:42,190
Speaker 1: In fact, I don’t think that’s the case. We are

271
00:14:42,230 –> 00:14:45,010
Speaker 1: just have no concept of what AI could do and

272
00:14:45,050 –> 00:14:48,570
Speaker 1: its powers. And I think it makes us feel good

273
00:14:48,610 –> 00:14:50,570
Speaker 1: to say that, but I just don’t think it’s accurate.

274
00:14:51,190 –> 00:14:54,300
Speaker 1: I think ultimately it goes back to the consumer and

275
00:14:54,360 –> 00:14:56,720
Speaker 1: making sure we understand the consumer and we have a

276
00:14:56,800 –> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 1: great insight or observation. AI can help with that in

277
00:14:59,900 –> 00:15:02,420
Speaker 1: many ways. I think it then becomes about, hey, how

278
00:15:02,440 –> 00:15:06,070
Speaker 1: do we bring that idea of life creatively and innovatively? Again, AI,

279
00:15:06,370 –> 00:15:08,430
Speaker 1: super important role in that. And then how does it

280
00:15:08,550 –> 00:15:11,990
Speaker 1: activate it? Again, AI, super important role. But it’s the

281
00:15:12,030 –> 00:15:14,570
Speaker 1: role they play in those things. I still think, though,

282
00:15:14,630 –> 00:15:16,700
Speaker 1: it comes back to the consumer. And that’s really what

283
00:15:16,720 –> 00:15:20,850
Speaker 1: we’re focused on at Edgewell. is this obsession with consumers.

284
00:15:20,950 –> 00:15:23,310
Speaker 1: And so we have this unique portfolio of what I

285
00:15:23,350 –> 00:15:27,310
Speaker 1: call iconic brands, as you referenced, like Schick, been around

286
00:15:27,330 –> 00:15:30,830
Speaker 1: for 100 years, Banana Boat, 50 years, Hawaiian Tropic, almost

287
00:15:30,830 –> 00:15:33,480
Speaker 1: 50 years. And so how we breathe new life into

288
00:15:33,520 –> 00:15:38,490
Speaker 1: those brands And same time balanced with these amazing emerging brands,

289
00:15:38,570 –> 00:15:41,490
Speaker 1: brands like Billy and Cremo and Jack Black. And how

290
00:15:41,510 –> 00:15:44,370
Speaker 1: do we scale those in this kind of new world

291
00:15:44,930 –> 00:15:47,630
Speaker 1: of the marketplace? And so that’s the exciting part about

292
00:15:47,650 –> 00:15:49,750
Speaker 1: the Edgewell portfolio is there’ll be a brand living in

293
00:15:49,810 –> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 1: both places. But the fundamentals that go into like an

294
00:15:54,280 –> 00:15:57,980
Speaker 1: iconic brand and like emerging brand are the same. It’s

295
00:15:58,020 –> 00:16:01,340
Speaker 1: just the ideas, activations, et cetera, and where you start

296
00:16:01,360 –> 00:16:01,980
Speaker 1: from that differ.

297
00:16:02,620 –> 00:16:02,960
Speaker 4: I really.

298
00:16:03,590 –> 00:16:07,410
Speaker 2: appreciate the portfolio for what it is, having some of

299
00:16:07,430 –> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 2: the newer brands like Billy balanced with some of the

300
00:16:10,800 –> 00:16:14,220
Speaker 2: heritage brands, if you will, the iconic brands. It still

301
00:16:14,240 –> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 2: goes back to what you said at the beginning, which

302
00:16:16,060 –> 00:16:20,640
Speaker 2: is that curiosity quotient. And everything that you were saying

303
00:16:20,680 –> 00:16:24,580
Speaker 2: about AI, I think, rings true from that curiosity quotient.

304
00:16:25,000 –> 00:16:26,900
Speaker 2: If there’s somebody that you were talking to in Cannes

305
00:16:26,950 –> 00:16:29,390
Speaker 2: that said, AI is not going to give me goosebumps,

306
00:16:30,010 –> 00:16:32,670
Speaker 2: I would challenge that and say, well, that might be

307
00:16:32,690 –> 00:16:35,510
Speaker 2: a user error, but I actually think it’s a lack

308
00:16:35,550 –> 00:16:38,420
Speaker 2: of a curiosity quotient. Maybe it’s not, or it’s not

309
00:16:38,460 –> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 2: yet or whatever it is, but you got to bring

310
00:16:41,820 –> 00:16:47,700
Speaker 2: a boundary-less mindset to that in order to see what

311
00:16:47,740 –> 00:16:50,340
Speaker 2: potential is. If we went back to the beginning of

312
00:16:50,440 –> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 2: our careers where we were moving, I’m not going to

313
00:16:53,620 –> 00:16:56,540
Speaker 2: include Rachel in this, but maybe you and I, where

314
00:16:56,580 –> 00:17:00,330
Speaker 2: you went from like faxing to emailing, Could we have

315
00:17:00,650 –> 00:17:03,610
Speaker 2: envisioned what we were going to be doing today? Of

316
00:17:03,690 –> 00:17:05,170
Speaker 2: course not. Were we going to be able to envision

317
00:17:05,190 –> 00:17:07,750
Speaker 2: what we were doing three weeks later? Of course not.

318
00:17:08,130 –> 00:17:11,390
Speaker 2: Staying true to the consumer, that is a timeless fundamental.

319
00:17:11,490 –> 00:17:15,790
Speaker 2: Like there are core timeless fundamentals about marketing. One, never

320
00:17:15,830 –> 00:17:20,550
Speaker 2: lose sight of the consumer. Two, ABC, always be curious.

321
00:17:21,510 –> 00:17:26,649
Speaker 2: If you’re going to shut this stuff down because… psychological safety.

322
00:17:26,710 –> 00:17:29,050
Speaker 2: There’s a whole bunch of reasons why that kind of

323
00:17:29,070 –> 00:17:31,449
Speaker 2: stuff can be there. So I think, you know, you

324
00:17:31,470 –> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 2: were talking about different generations. I wonder, and I’m testing

325
00:17:35,020 –> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 2: a theory here, so I want to get your take

326
00:17:36,500 –> 00:17:40,100
Speaker 2: on it. If millennials and Gen Xers are actually more

327
00:17:40,200 –> 00:17:44,460
Speaker 2: curious about this stuff because we’ve experienced so much other

328
00:17:44,560 –> 00:17:47,729
Speaker 2: change in our professional lives, then the ones we have

329
00:17:47,770 –> 00:17:50,850
Speaker 2: to teach from scratch to be more curious because they

330
00:17:50,890 –> 00:17:52,050
Speaker 2: haven’t been as exposed.

331
00:17:53,000 –> 00:17:55,950
Speaker 1: I think that’s a great point about culture in general.

332
00:17:56,450 –> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: First of all, culture was shaped over time, over years,

333
00:18:00,080 –> 00:18:03,830
Speaker 1: over a decade. I just think today… it’s a much

334
00:18:04,150 –> 00:18:09,360
Speaker 1: more compressed change in time. Like six, seven, like was

335
00:18:09,490 –> 00:18:11,460
Speaker 1: all the rage for a moment in time. And then

336
00:18:11,859 –> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 1: it’s kind of disappears, but quickly.

337
00:18:14,180 –> 00:18:14,760
Speaker 2: Wait, it’s over?

338
00:18:14,780 –> 00:18:17,260
Speaker 1: I’m kidding. It was over in December. I remember when

339
00:18:17,280 –> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: it was on the Today Show and the 60 Minutes

340
00:18:19,660 –> 00:18:21,830
Speaker 1: or whatever, just like, I remember saying to my students,

341
00:18:21,869 –> 00:18:24,330
Speaker 1: they ruined it for us. We had six, seven all

342
00:18:24,369 –> 00:18:26,330
Speaker 1: to ourselves. And then all of a sudden, all the

343
00:18:26,369 –> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 1: parents come in and ruin it for us. But I

344
00:18:28,619 –> 00:18:33,390
Speaker 1: think things move so much quicker today. And I think

345
00:18:33,609 –> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 1: having some experience and history makes you think a lot

346
00:18:38,560 –> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 1: about how things change and are curious about the future

347
00:18:42,760 –> 00:18:45,700
Speaker 1: versus I think this generation, it’s just like head turning

348
00:18:45,740 –> 00:18:49,149
Speaker 1: from one thing to another about meme culture, about celebrities,

349
00:18:49,190 –> 00:18:52,989
Speaker 1: about influencers that just move so much faster. I’m not

350
00:18:53,050 –> 00:18:55,310
Speaker 1: sure they have a sense to like ever think about

351
00:18:55,350 –> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 1: history and how things change because it moves so quickly.

352
00:18:57,920 –> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: So I think it’s a great point that There is

353
00:19:00,820 –> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 1: value to life experience. And like, I remember so clearly,

354
00:19:04,300 –> 00:19:06,140
Speaker 1: I was at the Walt Disney Company and I left

355
00:19:06,180 –> 00:19:08,830
Speaker 1: to go to an internet startup. Unfortunately for me, that

356
00:19:08,850 –> 00:19:11,590
Speaker 1: startup was not eBay or Amazon or Google, but someone

357
00:19:11,609 –> 00:19:14,169
Speaker 1: you’ve never heard of. But I remember just that living

358
00:19:14,190 –> 00:19:18,650
Speaker 1: that change and just like imagining, God, like this dot-com era,

359
00:19:18,710 –> 00:19:21,430
Speaker 1: like you can open up the yellow pages and be like,

360
00:19:21,550 –> 00:19:24,220
Speaker 1: that’s a business. I can make that a business. I

361
00:19:24,240 –> 00:19:27,020
Speaker 1: could sell it. And I feel like it just took

362
00:19:27,119 –> 00:19:29,460
Speaker 1: time for that to happen. And you could see it

363
00:19:29,540 –> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: and learn from it and get curious. I think what

364
00:19:31,940 –> 00:19:35,680
Speaker 1: we’re living today moves so quickly. And to your point,

365
00:19:36,200 –> 00:19:39,070
Speaker 1: I think going up with that curiosity because things change

366
00:19:39,119 –> 00:19:41,690
Speaker 1: much more slowly as we were growing up or in

367
00:19:41,730 –> 00:19:43,869
Speaker 1: professional life. So I think it’s a great theory. And

368
00:19:44,170 –> 00:19:46,710
Speaker 1: I loved your point about what was the term you

369
00:19:46,869 –> 00:19:50,510
Speaker 1: used about this like wide open view. That list?

370
00:19:50,570 –> 00:19:52,310
Speaker 2: Boundary list mindset, yeah.

371
00:19:52,650 –> 00:19:55,890
Speaker 1: Boundary list thinking. And so I think it’s so valuable

372
00:19:55,950 –> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: because I did actually call out a little bit each

373
00:19:59,020 –> 00:20:00,939
Speaker 1: of these times I was at Cannes to say when

374
00:20:00,960 –> 00:20:04,580
Speaker 1: people were like, again, I think it’s psychological safety. We’re

375
00:20:04,600 –> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: in this creative environment. Like AI will never think about

376
00:20:07,800 –> 00:20:11,300
Speaker 1: doing this. AI will never… Guys, we have no concept

377
00:20:11,359 –> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 1: of what AI is doing. I’m not pinning it in

378
00:20:13,359 –> 00:20:16,420
Speaker 1: any kind of a box, nor should you. I think

379
00:20:16,460 –> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 1: that just makes us feel good in the moment. I

380
00:20:19,100 –> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: don’t think that’s the right thing to do.

381
00:20:20,460 –> 00:20:24,360
Speaker 3: The other side of all this is driving business results,

382
00:20:24,660 –> 00:20:27,590
Speaker 3: which I’m sure you have a lot of pressure around,

383
00:20:27,910 –> 00:20:29,430
Speaker 3: given that you’re at the helm of Edgewell.

384
00:20:29,450 –> 00:20:29,610
Speaker 1: Yeah.

385
00:20:30,830 –> 00:20:33,650
Speaker 3: You’ve worked across so many consumer brands. Like I met

386
00:20:33,670 –> 00:20:36,830
Speaker 3: you when you were at Unilever, you’ve done Newman, Shark Ninja,

387
00:20:37,050 –> 00:20:40,190
Speaker 3: a whole load of experiences. And when you think about

388
00:20:40,810 –> 00:20:44,889
Speaker 3: driving market share, no matter what is going on in

389
00:20:44,930 –> 00:20:49,650
Speaker 3: the world, what do you think a lot of leaders underestimate?

390
00:20:50,660 –> 00:20:54,820
Speaker 1: I think leaders underestimate the power of truly understanding the consumer.

391
00:20:55,780 –> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: And that to me unlocks the rest of the marketing process.

392
00:20:59,440 –> 00:21:02,580
Speaker 1: And I always joke, Like we need to be obsessed

393
00:21:02,640 –> 00:21:06,180
Speaker 1: with our consumers and our categories. Like I can’t walk

394
00:21:06,220 –> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: into a CVS and pick up a prescription or walk

395
00:21:09,080 –> 00:21:11,129
Speaker 1: into a Target just to pick up one item without

396
00:21:11,270 –> 00:21:16,190
Speaker 1: walking like the shelves of our products, sitting and looking

397
00:21:16,270 –> 00:21:19,189
Speaker 1: at like where the shelf positioning is, what’s the prices,

398
00:21:19,350 –> 00:21:24,570
Speaker 1: who’s on promotion, watching consumers interact with our categories. We

399
00:21:24,609 –> 00:21:27,090
Speaker 1: need to be obsessed with that part of the experience

400
00:21:27,150 –> 00:21:30,189
Speaker 1: because I get it, like the next TikTok product, the

401
00:21:30,230 –> 00:21:33,250
Speaker 1: next influencer craze, the next YouTube creator, those are all

402
00:21:33,330 –> 00:21:37,790
Speaker 1: important aspects. But I just think It goes back to

403
00:21:37,850 –> 00:21:39,810
Speaker 1: that siren song. We get so caught up in what

404
00:21:39,830 –> 00:21:43,490
Speaker 1: the next siren song is that like the main siren

405
00:21:43,540 –> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: is sitting in front of us all the time. That’s

406
00:21:45,840 –> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: the consumer. I just don’t feel like we spend enough

407
00:21:49,280 –> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: time on the consumer and we get so excited by

408
00:21:52,520 –> 00:21:56,719
Speaker 1: like the landscape and all the different platform opportunities that

409
00:21:56,760 –> 00:21:59,690
Speaker 1: we lose sight of the consumer. So for me, that’s

410
00:21:59,730 –> 00:22:04,620
Speaker 1: the biggest thing. opportunity still in this like unbelievably noise

411
00:22:04,680 –> 00:22:08,379
Speaker 1: of crowded noise of like amazing things around us is

412
00:22:08,420 –> 00:22:10,790
Speaker 1: losing sight of the consumer. That’s how I kind of

413
00:22:10,810 –> 00:22:11,139
Speaker 1: frame it.

414
00:22:12,109 –> 00:22:14,450
Speaker 3: Well, we could pick your brain all day, but we

415
00:22:14,510 –> 00:22:17,270
Speaker 3: have to ask you our famous last question, which is

416
00:22:18,230 –> 00:22:19,770
Speaker 3: what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

417
00:22:20,530 –> 00:22:23,030
Speaker 1: I think back to the early part of my career

418
00:22:23,050 –> 00:22:27,169
Speaker 1: at Unilever. Unilever in the early 2000s, late 90s, and

419
00:22:27,190 –> 00:22:31,500
Speaker 1: when I joined, had this outstanding portfolio of products that

420
00:22:31,520 –> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: were well-known, but we weren’t doing anything particular or extraordinary

421
00:22:35,940 –> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 1: in how we brought those brands to life. Unilever was

422
00:22:38,810 –> 00:22:43,770
Speaker 1: not known for its marketing chops or its innovation in thinking.

423
00:22:44,170 –> 00:22:46,229
Speaker 1: It just wasn’t. I remember time and time again when

424
00:22:46,250 –> 00:22:48,330
Speaker 1: I joined Unilever or when I was interviewing and I

425
00:22:48,369 –> 00:22:52,130
Speaker 1: was talking to the people, The line I heard more

426
00:22:52,190 –> 00:22:55,570
Speaker 1: than twice was, listen, it’s not where like the best

427
00:22:55,650 –> 00:22:58,530
Speaker 1: marketers come out of, which is so funny to think

428
00:22:58,590 –> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: about 20 plus years later. But at the time, that

429
00:23:01,600 –> 00:23:03,379
Speaker 1: was the line I got over and over again. It

430
00:23:03,400 –> 00:23:06,239
Speaker 1: was like PepsiCo and P & G and like they

431
00:23:06,260 –> 00:23:08,220
Speaker 1: just they don’t like the world on fire. That was

432
00:23:08,280 –> 00:23:11,739
Speaker 1: like a verbatim quote I just never forgot. And so

433
00:23:11,820 –> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: I think I was fortunate to be part of a

434
00:23:13,760 –> 00:23:18,010
Speaker 1: small group at Unilever who really challenged all the traditional

435
00:23:18,050 –> 00:23:21,150
Speaker 1: ways of brand building at this hundred plus year old company.

436
00:23:21,710 –> 00:23:24,790
Speaker 1: And so it started with, I think, two brands, Axe

437
00:23:25,550 –> 00:23:28,070
Speaker 1: and Dove. So I was fortunate enough to be part

438
00:23:28,109 –> 00:23:32,449
Speaker 1: of Dove. And we as a group really like challenged

439
00:23:32,609 –> 00:23:36,109
Speaker 1: decades of thinking of like conventional brand building and It

440
00:23:36,150 –> 00:23:37,870
Speaker 1: happened to be at the time that digital was really

441
00:23:37,910 –> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: coming to life. It happened to be also time that

442
00:23:40,359 –> 00:23:44,340
Speaker 1: like branded entertainment and like how to think about Weaving

443
00:23:44,380 –> 00:23:47,940
Speaker 1: yourself into entertainment properties. And so I think that’s like

444
00:23:47,960 –> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: the context for what my example of bravery was, which

445
00:23:52,119 –> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: was I was working on the Dove brand. I was

446
00:23:54,240 –> 00:23:57,250
Speaker 1: a senior brand manager at Dove. And I pushed for

447
00:23:57,290 –> 00:23:59,969
Speaker 1: us to be included in this new concept. And it’s

448
00:24:00,010 –> 00:24:02,949
Speaker 1: obviously it comes full circle in an unusual way of

449
00:24:03,090 –> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: integrating ourselves into the show The Apprentice. And the idea

450
00:24:06,840 –> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: was we actually briefed the two teams on The Apprentice.

451
00:24:10,080 –> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: For those who are not familiar with the show, you

452
00:24:11,940 –> 00:24:14,659
Speaker 1: can easily Google and look it up. And the brand

453
00:24:14,680 –> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: would come back with ideas. Everyone was so nervous about

454
00:24:18,100 –> 00:24:20,580
Speaker 1: that because it was turning over your brand to other

455
00:24:20,660 –> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: people in a way that 20 years ago we just

456
00:24:23,160 –> 00:24:25,980
Speaker 1: were not used to even like dreaming or imagining of doing.

457
00:24:26,859 –> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: And so I just felt like I was given a

458
00:24:29,540 –> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: new innovation that was like a green body wash and

459
00:24:32,240 –> 00:24:34,290
Speaker 1: bar soap that had nothing to it other than like

460
00:24:34,330 –> 00:24:37,510
Speaker 1: a new scent. And I was like, guys, we need

461
00:24:37,530 –> 00:24:40,450
Speaker 1: to think differently. Instead of product innovation, we’re going to

462
00:24:40,470 –> 00:24:43,380
Speaker 1: do what I call communication innovation. We’re going to innovate

463
00:24:43,390 –> 00:24:46,740
Speaker 1: on how we bring this new just green bar soap

464
00:24:46,859 –> 00:24:49,460
Speaker 1: and body wash to life because it’s nothing out of

465
00:24:49,500 –> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: the ordinary about this product. And so we’re going to

466
00:24:51,859 –> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: rely on what I call communication innovation. And we tied

467
00:24:54,770 –> 00:24:57,510
Speaker 1: in with The Apprentice. I’ll never forget. I went back

468
00:24:57,530 –> 00:24:59,670
Speaker 1: and forth, went all the way to like the president

469
00:24:59,690 –> 00:25:01,810
Speaker 1: of the US, the global CMO of like, what do

470
00:25:01,830 –> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 1: we do? And we did it. And I remember saying

471
00:25:04,280 –> 00:25:06,540
Speaker 1: to my boss at the time, if this doesn’t work,

472
00:25:07,119 –> 00:25:10,550
Speaker 1: I will leave. I’m out. If this blows up, I

473
00:25:10,590 –> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: totally can accept that. And so I brought my suitcase

474
00:25:14,840 –> 00:25:18,380
Speaker 1: to work that day, that Thursday, when the Apprentice episode

475
00:25:18,480 –> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 1: aired to demonstrate that like, I’m going to pack my

476
00:25:21,760 –> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: stuff up and leave if this doesn’t go well. And

477
00:25:25,340 –> 00:25:28,710
Speaker 1: it ended up being Until Dove Men, the most successful

478
00:25:28,790 –> 00:25:32,869
Speaker 1: Dove launch at the time, Until Dove Men for Dove.

479
00:25:33,550 –> 00:25:36,270
Speaker 1: It was how we brought it to life. through all

480
00:25:36,290 –> 00:25:39,060
Speaker 1: the different ways leveraging that apprentice show and how like

481
00:25:39,100 –> 00:25:42,450
Speaker 1: consumers were now ready for like this integration, which today

482
00:25:42,490 –> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: was like happens all the time, but it was more

483
00:25:44,600 –> 00:25:47,859
Speaker 1: unique 20 plus years ago. That was something that was just,

484
00:25:47,960 –> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: I look back on that. There was so many people

485
00:25:50,780 –> 00:25:53,980
Speaker 1: doubting or saying no. And like all the agencies were like,

486
00:25:54,380 –> 00:25:56,540
Speaker 1: it’s too much of a risk. And I just said like,

487
00:25:56,720 –> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: I’m willing, this is what hell I’m willing to die for.

488
00:25:58,680 –> 00:26:01,980
Speaker 1: I believe this is where, the direction of marketing is going.

489
00:26:02,020 –> 00:26:04,580
Speaker 1: We need to take big risks and big swings. And

490
00:26:04,980 –> 00:26:07,260
Speaker 1: I brought my suitcase to work. And fortunately it ended

491
00:26:07,300 –> 00:26:09,380
Speaker 1: up like, I remember we like sold out of Walmart.

492
00:26:09,540 –> 00:26:11,830
Speaker 1: It was like no products were left on the Walmart

493
00:26:11,850 –> 00:26:14,470
Speaker 1: shelf for this new product. So that to me is

494
00:26:14,490 –> 00:26:16,810
Speaker 1: probably the example of like really leaning in. And I

495
00:26:16,830 –> 00:26:19,810
Speaker 1: was like, fortunately part of a group, at Dove and

496
00:26:19,950 –> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: Axe who really rethought marketing, whether it be Dove campaign

497
00:26:24,380 –> 00:26:26,980
Speaker 1: for Real Beauty and that team led by Sylvia Lugnato

498
00:26:27,340 –> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: or the Axe team with Kevin George and David Rubin,

499
00:26:29,920 –> 00:26:32,419
Speaker 1: who’s like, and Christopher Luxon, by the way, who’s now

500
00:26:32,440 –> 00:26:36,700
Speaker 1: the prime minister of New Zealand. Yes. And so it

501
00:26:36,720 –> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: was like a group of us who really tried to

502
00:26:38,800 –> 00:26:41,780
Speaker 1: reimagine how we go to market with brands. And I’m

503
00:26:41,980 –> 00:26:44,340
Speaker 1: fortunate to be a part of that and had a

504
00:26:44,380 –> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: piece to contribute to that way of working. Wow.

505
00:26:46,900 –> 00:26:48,659
Speaker 3: You know, there was the PayPal mafia, but what we

506
00:26:48,680 –> 00:26:50,590
Speaker 3: really needed was the Dove and Axe mafia.

507
00:26:50,750 –> 00:26:53,730
Speaker 1: Yes. It’s a very strong mafia that now withheld like

508
00:26:53,970 –> 00:26:55,990
Speaker 1: strong leadership positions in government.

509
00:26:56,170 –> 00:26:59,290
Speaker 3: That’s incredible. I love that story. Did you have a

510
00:26:59,330 –> 00:27:01,410
Speaker 3: wife and kids at the time when you brought this

511
00:27:01,470 –> 00:27:02,190
Speaker 3: empty suitcase?

512
00:27:02,470 –> 00:27:06,830
Speaker 1: I was recently married. I think my wife was pregnant. Fortunately,

513
00:27:06,910 –> 00:27:08,950
Speaker 1: she was also working, so we can always move to

514
00:27:08,990 –> 00:27:14,260
Speaker 1: her insurance. But I think, listen, people rally around you

515
00:27:14,320 –> 00:27:17,820
Speaker 1: when you’re saying, like, I’m all in on this. And

516
00:27:17,859 –> 00:27:22,970
Speaker 1: when there’s like tension of creativity and strategy, like people

517
00:27:23,010 –> 00:27:25,810
Speaker 1: leaned in. And fortunately for me, Alan Jobe, who later

518
00:27:25,830 –> 00:27:29,570
Speaker 1: became the CEO of Unilever, he was like, he led

519
00:27:29,590 –> 00:27:32,590
Speaker 1: the US business. I remember meeting with him and talking

520
00:27:32,630 –> 00:27:35,350
Speaker 1: to him. And he was saying like, this is the

521
00:27:35,390 –> 00:27:37,869
Speaker 1: type of things we need to do to shake up

522
00:27:37,970 –> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: this organization. And everyone after that wanted like an apprentice moment.

523
00:27:42,140 –> 00:27:45,419
Speaker 1: It just became like, how do I do that? And

524
00:27:45,520 –> 00:27:47,900
Speaker 1: so I feel like, you know, I look at today

525
00:27:47,920 –> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: Unilever and I’ve been gone now a couple of years.

526
00:27:50,920 –> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: They continue to churn out one amazing campaign after another.

527
00:27:55,020 –> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: And I think it created it again. It was a

528
00:27:58,400 –> 00:28:01,620
Speaker 1: group of people and amazing leaders that embraced it, that

529
00:28:01,680 –> 00:28:06,129
Speaker 1: embraced a culture of innovation and communication and innovation. thinking

530
00:28:06,170 –> 00:28:08,970
Speaker 1: creatively and breakthrough and being on the leading edge, like

531
00:28:09,030 –> 00:28:11,570
Speaker 1: Keith Weed, who was our former CMO, I think was

532
00:28:11,609 –> 00:28:14,370
Speaker 1: the epitome of that. It’s just amazing to see now,

533
00:28:14,430 –> 00:28:17,629
Speaker 1: like all of us are gone and yet Unilever continues

534
00:28:17,690 –> 00:28:20,990
Speaker 1: to raise the bar long after we’re gone of doing

535
00:28:21,040 –> 00:28:21,670
Speaker 1: amazing work.

536
00:28:22,940 –> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 3: Well, Rob, we so appreciate you letting us pick your

537
00:28:25,520 –> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: brain and we look forward to this legacy now being

538
00:28:29,520 –> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: built at Edgewell.

539
00:28:30,940 –> 00:28:32,419
Speaker 1: Yes, it’s coming.

540
00:28:32,800 –> 00:28:33,419
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

541
00:28:33,780 –> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: Not to mention this next generation of high EQCQ students

542
00:28:38,700 –> 00:28:41,020
Speaker 2: that are going to be in high demand, I’ll bet.

543
00:28:41,280 –> 00:28:44,580
Speaker 1: It’s amazing because for so many years, I thought, hey,

544
00:28:44,620 –> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: I’m coming to a point in my career, I want

545
00:28:46,220 –> 00:28:49,390
Speaker 1: to help train the next level of marketers, prepare them

546
00:28:49,470 –> 00:28:52,670
Speaker 1: for what’s coming. What’s amazing about the experience now coming

547
00:28:52,710 –> 00:28:55,930
Speaker 1: in six years is what they have taught me about marketing.

548
00:28:56,580 –> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: is that they have kept me so sharp, so engaged.

549
00:28:59,560 –> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: You cannot show up to a room of 70 juniors

550
00:29:02,560 –> 00:29:06,100
Speaker 1: and seniors in college unprepared. They will sense that out

551
00:29:06,520 –> 00:29:09,940
Speaker 1: right away. And so it’s just been a great experience

552
00:29:09,960 –> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: for me to engage. Like I have a TA who

553
00:29:12,000 –> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: does the grading, but I read their work because I’m curious,

554
00:29:15,290 –> 00:29:17,170
Speaker 1: what are they thinking? And by the way, I control

555
00:29:17,190 –> 00:29:18,970
Speaker 1: what the exam questions are. So I’m like, you know,

556
00:29:19,050 –> 00:29:21,430
Speaker 1: I’m curious what they think of like who the next

557
00:29:21,590 –> 00:29:24,430
Speaker 1: Alex Earl influencer should be for us for Hawaiian Tropic.

558
00:29:24,470 –> 00:29:27,110
Speaker 1: You know what? Let me ask like, 20 to 22

559
00:29:27,110 –> 00:29:30,940
Speaker 1: year old students. And so we get great feedback. So

560
00:29:30,960 –> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: I feel like they’ve given me so much in that.

561
00:29:34,020 –> 00:29:36,770
Speaker 1: And also to be part of like helping them in

562
00:29:36,810 –> 00:29:39,970
Speaker 1: a world that’s changing so rapidly, like just embrace the moment.

563
00:29:40,340 –> 00:29:43,070
Speaker 1: because I feel like I’m living it every day and

564
00:29:43,110 –> 00:29:45,930
Speaker 1: I bring that energy to them which is like you

565
00:29:45,970 –> 00:29:48,250
Speaker 1: need to have your head on a swivel. There’s no

566
00:29:48,290 –> 00:29:50,170
Speaker 1: more exciting time to be doing what we’re doing. And

567
00:29:50,190 –> 00:29:53,730
Speaker 1: you’re entering kind of this like madman era of marketing.

568
00:29:54,130 –> 00:29:56,470
Speaker 1: Just buckle up and be ready. And I just feel

569
00:29:56,510 –> 00:30:01,150
Speaker 1: like I’m complimented by amazing instructors and real professors, but

570
00:30:01,910 –> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: I provide them a different angle to life in the

571
00:30:05,120 –> 00:30:07,060
Speaker 1: working world that I don’t think necessarily get through a

572
00:30:07,080 –> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: traditional academic education.

573
00:30:09,760 –> 00:30:13,580
Speaker 3: Well, I hope you publish your curriculum on LinkedIn. So

574
00:30:13,600 –> 00:30:16,780
Speaker 3: we can follow along. And thank you again for joining us.

575
00:30:16,800 –> 00:30:19,220
Speaker 1: All right. Thanks, guys. Be well. Love your podcast.

576
00:30:22,440 –> 00:30:23,980
Speaker 3: If you like what you heard and you want to

577
00:30:24,000 –> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 3: think about talent development, especially in the mid-level career, go

578
00:30:29,480 –> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: check out a recent episode we published with Mondelez, Mindy,

579
00:30:33,300 –> 00:30:35,860
Speaker 3: and Wes. If you like what you heard, write a review,

580
00:30:35,960 –> 00:30:37,370
Speaker 3: tell a friend. Thanks for listening.

581
00:30:51,730 –> 00:30:55,710
Speaker 4: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

582
00:30:55,730 –> 00:30:58,500
Speaker 4: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

583
00:30:58,560 –> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 4: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

584
00:31:02,040 –> 00:31:05,730
Speaker 4: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

585
00:31:05,770 –> 00:31:08,090
Speaker 4: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

586
00:31:08,150 –> 00:31:11,260
Speaker 4: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

587
00:31:11,450 –> 00:31:14,740
Speaker 4: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

588
00:31:14,790 –> 00:31:17,630
Speaker 4: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

589
00:31:17,670 –> 00:31:20,140
Speaker 4: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

590
00:31:20,200 –> 00:31:23,730
Speaker 4: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

591
00:31:23,930 –> 00:31:25,980
Speaker 4: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.