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Speaker 1: Hey, Brave Commerce listeners. This is Marnie Edelhart. I’m a

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Speaker 1: producer here with Brave Commerce. And we’re excited to share

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Speaker 1: this best of episode with you in celebration of Women’s

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Speaker 1: History Month. Enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: I’m Rachel Tippegraph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstetter, president of Profitero.

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Speaker 3: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 3: in e-commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: Sarah and I just did a manual tally. We both

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Speaker 3: did it to figure out how many of our guests

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Speaker 3: have been women on the show.

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Speaker 4: And I think our guttural instincts were correct.

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Speaker 3: 50% of the episodes.

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Speaker 2: I think if you look at business leaders in general,

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Speaker 2: you think 50% are women?

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Speaker 3: I think we know the answer to that is no.

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Speaker 2: So I would say that we’re making some serious strides

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Speaker 2: towards gender equity, at least starting here, right? Right here,

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Speaker 2: Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 5: 100%.

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Speaker 3: So for anyone out there who says that there aren’t

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Speaker 3: enough female leaders in business, somehow Sarah and I, without

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Speaker 3: even trying, have had 50% of our guests be women.

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Speaker 2: Not just without even trying, like we literally had to

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Speaker 2: go back and count. By the way, we’re both data people,

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Speaker 2: just to be clear. And we’re just like doing a

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Speaker 2: manual count.

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Speaker 6: But you know what?

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Speaker 2: If we get our hands dirty, it’s what we do

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Speaker 2: around here.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that speaks more to the podcast ecosystem

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Speaker 3: and what closed system it is.

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Speaker 2: But yes. Yes, the walled gardens are not the easiest sometimes,

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Speaker 2: fair enough. But I think you’re bringing up a fair point.

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Speaker 2: And I would say one of the things that has

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Speaker 2: changed a lot over the years in terms of women

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Speaker 2: in business in particular is, at least when I was

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Speaker 2: growing up and professionally growing there was usually only a

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Speaker 2: couple of women that were in leadership positions in any

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Speaker 2: one company. And it’s not that it was officially quoted.

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Speaker 2: It’s just that if a woman was in that position,

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Speaker 2: she was just like, oh my God, I got it here.

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Speaker 2: There’s definitely not room for anybody else. Women were not

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Speaker 2: helping women. And I think that the next generation has

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Speaker 2: taken a completely different tone. And that has continued to

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Speaker 2: be the case where women help bring up other women

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Speaker 2: and women then incoming women can see it be it.

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Speaker 2: So you see other women in leadership and you say, ah,

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Speaker 2: this is a place I feel like I can actually

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Speaker 2: achieve that kind of greatness.

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Speaker 3: I think that’s been one of the most beautiful things

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Speaker 3: about us building this podcast together is the community of

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Speaker 3: women that we’ve now been able to surround ourselves with.

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Speaker 3: And we’re all linking arms to raise all tides together.

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Speaker 2: Being able to do that is one of the most

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Speaker 2: meaningful parts of my job. Men and women alike, to

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Speaker 2: be really clear, it’s not like I’m sitting here saying, OK,

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Speaker 2: I’m only going to mentor or coach other women. But

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Speaker 2: I think it’s more about being able to set the

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Speaker 2: right kind of tone of inclusivity and creating community. space

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Speaker 2: for that. But this isn’t about just women helping women.

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Speaker 2: It’s about women being seen as leaders, leaders that have followers,

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Speaker 2: leaders that have unique, diversified thoughts that bring to the table.

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Speaker 2: And that’s why I’m so happy that half our guests

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Speaker 2: have been women coincidentally more than anything else, because that’s

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Speaker 2: about as many people as we highlight and bring forth,

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Speaker 2: which is why the LinkedIn post that we put out

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Speaker 2: a little while ago is so particularly prescient, right, Rach?

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Speaker 3: Well, Sarah, I was going to play a.

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Speaker 4: Little pop quiz with you.

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Speaker 3: I’m going to say a company name and you got

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Speaker 3: to tell us the woman leader that we had on

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Speaker 3: the show.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you’re putting me on the spot.

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Speaker 7: Ready?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn’t plan this.

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Speaker 3: This is real.

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Speaker 1: Bic.

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Speaker 8: Oh, that.

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Speaker 4: Do you know how many women there are at BIC?

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Speaker 3: Who have we had on the show recently?

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Speaker 2: We had Laura Hyland on the show, but when we

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Speaker 2: had her, she was at Hangle.

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Speaker 9: This is true.

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Speaker 2: Oh, trick question, trick question.

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Speaker 3: Here’s another one for you, Church and Dwight.

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Speaker 4: Serby Pokerall, no question.

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Speaker 3: How about Paramount?

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Speaker 2: Paramount, that would be Pam Kaufman.

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Speaker 3: How about Unilever?

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Speaker 2: Essie Eggleston Bracey.

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Speaker 1: Boom.

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 7: I said boom, like boom, yes.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you said boo, like I got it wrong.

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Speaker 2: I’m like, she was promoted after we had her on

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Speaker 2: the podcast.

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Speaker 7: I see cause and effect.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, you got it right. Here’s a tricky one.

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Speaker 3: Which women leaders have we had from Colgate-Palmolive?

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Speaker 8: Oh, gosh.

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Speaker 2: We had Dana.

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Speaker 4: We had Diana.

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Speaker 2: Well, we had Essie as CEO of Tate, but she

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Speaker 2: was previously from Tom’s of Maine.

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Speaker 4: All right.

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Speaker 3: This is true.

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Speaker 7: Brigitte.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 9: Well done.

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Speaker 2: Oh, man, that was I did not like being in

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Speaker 2: the hot seat on that one. OK, I asked the

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Speaker 2: questions on the podcast. They don’t answer the question.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think we’re going to do a little look

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Speaker 3: back at some of the great women that we’ve had

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Speaker 3: on the show in honor of Women’s History Month, which

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Speaker 3: is March. Thanks to our team who is going to

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Speaker 3: put together this compilation episode. But let’s look back together

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Speaker 3: at some of the great women leaders that we’ve had

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Speaker 3: on the show. And if there are women leaders that

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Speaker 3: we haven’t had on the show that you want us

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Speaker 3: to highlight, send Sarah and I a message on LinkedIn.

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Speaker 3: We always love guest recommendations. So on that note, let’s

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Speaker 3: look back at the history of women on this show.

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Speaker 4: The more I know is the less I know.

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Speaker 10: That’s the journey I feel all of us in digital

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Speaker 10: and commerce are growing. The more I read about social

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Speaker 10: or influencers or frictionless commerce, first party data, all of

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Speaker 10: these things, the more you read, the more you apply,

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Speaker 10: you feel you’re knowledgeable and then you feel there is

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Speaker 10: still so much more to do. And this is exactly

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Speaker 10: where reverse mentoring comes. There are people on the ground,

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Speaker 10: the foot soldiers who are living this day in and

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Speaker 10: day out A five-minute conversation with them can mean so much.

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Speaker 10: But we have to give them the open doors and

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Speaker 10: encouragement to say what they bring will be celebrated and

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Speaker 10: will be executed. That they are above and beyond just

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Speaker 10: being our teachers. They are being our coaches and guides.

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Speaker 10: And they want our empowerment to be able to execute that.

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Speaker 11: I didn’t come into business because of business. I actually

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Speaker 11: came into it to help people. And I could see

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Speaker 11: the opportunity. And I’m a big.

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Speaker 4: Believer in human centricity.

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Speaker 11: You create business when you find what people need and

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Speaker 11: you create solutions to people’s problems. And the first part

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Speaker 11: of my career, I did that through product. And then

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Speaker 11: later I found that you could do so much more

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Speaker 11: than just product. And so the Febreze example is an

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Speaker 11: example of that. When you really looked at people that

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Speaker 11: were struggling with odors in their homes, there were lower

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Speaker 11: income people living in small quarters and that maybe had

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Speaker 11: people live with them who were smoking and had pets.

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Speaker 11: And their home was like their castle and their oasis,

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Speaker 11: but they never felt comfortable when people were coming over,

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Speaker 11: did their home smell funny. And Febreze created a source

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Speaker 11: of confidence, peace with having a tool, control, knowing that

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Speaker 11: their home would be fresh. So yes, you create business,

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Speaker 11: you have multiple stakeholders, you help people, and then you

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Speaker 11: reward it for helping people. And that’s with profit, but

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Speaker 11: it allows you to help people more. And I see

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Speaker 11: it as a virtual cycle. And then later in my

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Speaker 11: career past P & G at Unilever, this is very

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Speaker 11: much why I joined Unilever. And that really, this whole

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Speaker 11: idea of human centricity and making impact even beyond the product.

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Speaker 11: And that’s what, you know, when we’re later in our careers,

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Speaker 11: we want to do more at Giselle. We want to

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Speaker 11: make a big impact. But, you know, I started learning

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Speaker 11: that at P & G, but really built upon that.

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Speaker 11: And what I’m doing at Unilever, also at P &

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Speaker 11: G on beauty and cover girl and You know, I

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Speaker 11: had the privilege of being the marketing director and general

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Speaker 11: manager of that business over the years and seeing the

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Speaker 11: impact of having people be seen in beauty and what

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Speaker 11: that did not just for the business, but for society

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Speaker 11: at large. And then now with Unilever and championing for

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Speaker 11: the Crown Act on behalf of Dove, you know, whose

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Speaker 11: life work is all about beauty inclusivity.

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Speaker 4: Certainly the product makes a difference, but it really beyond

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Speaker 4: the product.

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Speaker 11: It’s the imagery that’s out in the marketplace and in

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Speaker 11: the programs where you can actually put an end to

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Speaker 11: race-based hair discrimination. So it’s back to what you said

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Speaker 11: very well, Sarah, around solving people problems, human centricity.

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Speaker 4: It’s well beyond capitalism.

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Speaker 11: It’s about using our business and brands as a platform

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Speaker 11: to do good and make an impact.

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Speaker 6: I think a critical part of the people skills that

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Speaker 6: it takes to move up is understanding people’s motivators. If

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Speaker 6: you understand what motivates people, different groups, different individuals, and

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Speaker 6: you’re honest about what your motivators are, you can work

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Speaker 6: together to support and help each other. That’s not a

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Speaker 6: bad thing. And I think we often keep that type

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Speaker 6: of information close to our vest. So like for me,

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Speaker 6: I will say about me personally as an individual and

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Speaker 6: my boss will laugh at me, but he, Jesper knows this,

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Speaker 6: like I’m motivated by money, influence and power. I love

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Speaker 6: those three things for me. And there’s a reason why

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Speaker 6: like money, you know, I’m working on reestablishing the financial

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Speaker 6: wealth just by being black in the United States was

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Speaker 6: not afforded to me. And so it’s my duty to

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Speaker 6: think about that for my community, but also for my son,

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Speaker 6: my nieces.

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Speaker 4: And to make sure.

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Speaker 6: I’m prioritizing that. Influence in roles like the roles that

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Speaker 6: I’m typically in, where you have the dumpster fire, or

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Speaker 6: it’s the new area that people don’t really understand, and

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Speaker 6: you have to get people and galvanize people behind them.

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Speaker 6: If you can’t influence, if you don’t have that reach

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Speaker 6: within the organization to get people to drive change, then

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Speaker 6: it’s going to be really hard to accomplish your objectives

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Speaker 6: and power. Because in some instances, yes, I can convince you,

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Speaker 6: I am passionate, I can get followership, but at some

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Speaker 6: Instances at some crossroads, you just need the power to

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Speaker 6: be able to get the thing done that you need

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Speaker 6: are three things that are really important to me and

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Speaker 6: if you can’t say them out loud, without people really

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Speaker 6: connecting with them and understanding them, but with people really

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Speaker 6: judging them, then those are your people. And so you

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Speaker 6: just have to really understand the environment that you’re in

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Speaker 6: and remove yourself from environments that they don’t allow you

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Speaker 6: to achieve your potential, but also to achieve your motivators,

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Speaker 6: which are critical.

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Speaker 4: I see sayings. Kate’s Bake Shop.

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Speaker 7: Mondelez knows how to make cookies in grand scale. We

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Speaker 7: have this great bake shop. We have this great factory.

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Speaker 7: We have these amazing Latina women making cookies all day long.

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Speaker 7: But how do we scale that? And how do we

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Speaker 7: understand and leverage the hundreds of engineers and smart people

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Speaker 7: history and being able to ask them, how do we

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Speaker 7: make this cookie? You know, how do we replicate this

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Speaker 7: in other ways is the gift that Mondelez can give

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Speaker 7: to me, right? The gift that I bring that the

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Speaker 7: brand can bring is the how, And then Mondelez can

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Speaker 7: help us understand the what as we expand.

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Speaker 2: But it is, it is important.

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Speaker 7: And I would say that to any leader of an

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Speaker 7: acquiring brand is that at first you have to be

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Speaker 7: defender of the brand and understand what gift that that

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Speaker 7: parent company can bring to you. The parent company will say,

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Speaker 7: these are the things that we want to do, but

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Speaker 7: you have to pull the gifts and understand what the

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Speaker 7: tension is and how to apply it.

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Speaker 4: Andrea Sangara, Campari.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the legal.

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Speaker 12: Drinking age new consumer is very different. They do have

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Speaker 12: evolving repertoires. I think I alluded to the better for

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Speaker 12: you trend earlier. And I think that’s a really big

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Speaker 12: part behind the growth of the lower ABV choices that

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Speaker 12: find themselves at the center of the aperitivo occasion, which

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Speaker 12: for us are Aperol and Campari are the hero ones.

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Speaker 12: Though we have a multitude of others there. The other

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Speaker 12: things as I look about setting ourselves up for the

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Speaker 12: future without consumers, they’re very much about experiences and quality

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Speaker 12: of experiences. They’re choosing high quality products less often or

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Speaker 12: in different moments, but they want to ensure that the

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Speaker 12: quality of the experiences that they have, the drink that

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Speaker 12: they’re having, the moment they’re having it with their friends

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Speaker 12: or colleagues or family is really high quality. And I

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Speaker 12: think one of the things we’re doing at Campari Group

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Speaker 12: is curating these experiences that are meaningful. And I think

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Speaker 12: Aperol is another good example of that, right? So really

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Speaker 12: finding those moments with consumers, and we’re doing that across

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Speaker 12: the portfolio. I think Wild Turkey is another really good one,

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Speaker 12: like finding those right moments in culture where consumers want

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Speaker 12: to have a great time. They’re spending it with friends

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Speaker 12: and family, and they want to have a great tasting

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Speaker 12: drink experience at the same time. So the Wild Turkey

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Speaker 12: Bold Fashioned, we call it, is one that you’ll see

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Speaker 12: us showing up with at multiple different types of music

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Speaker 12: festivals across the country through the fall, as well as

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Speaker 12: through the summer. It’s really about making sure that our

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Speaker 12: product offerings are right and the experiences that consumers are

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Speaker 12: discovering us in and trying us in bring to life

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Speaker 12: something that they want to recreate. And that’s what we’re

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Speaker 12: finding that they’re doing with our products. The other thing

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Speaker 12: with them is while they are interested in Better For You,

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Speaker 12: these high quality experiences, they’re also looking for more character

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Speaker 12: and more flavor. So that’s where you’re seeing us starting

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Speaker 12: to lean into the Mezcal, which is a lot of flavor.

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Speaker 12: And you’re seeing these categories with a lot of flavor

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Speaker 12: and character on the rise again. So I alluded to

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Speaker 12: bourbon earlier as well. We’re looking at discovering within that

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Speaker 12: category and we’re making sure we’re offering different products that

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Speaker 12: facilitate that journey for consumers. So Wild Turkey has rare breed,

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Speaker 12: rare breed rye, rare breed bourbon. Every year we launch

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Speaker 12: a master’s keep product within the Wild Turkey range, which

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Speaker 12: is always a really unique, exciting expression that the master

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Speaker 12: distillers experiment with different categories. This past year, it was

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Speaker 12: called Voyage.

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Speaker 8: Where we had our master distiller.

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Speaker 12: Of Appleton Estate, Joyce Spence, work with our distilling team

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Speaker 12: of the Russells at Wild Turkey and create something really unique.

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Speaker 12: We’re always thinking about what can we offer those consumers

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Speaker 12: to be able to fulfill their expectations for experiences, for

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Speaker 12: high quality at a reasonable price.

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Speaker 8: You know, it’s like the old sales versus marketing versus

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Speaker 8: supply chain versus, right? It’s been a decade long debate.

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Speaker 8: How do you build empathy is understanding, showing and providing

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Speaker 8: forums and platforms to share that cross-functional think. It can

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Speaker 8: be a little tricky, as you know, because each of

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Speaker 8: those silos language keeps changing. Creating those pods of people

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Speaker 8: and creating those pods of projects to create that human

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Speaker 8: relationship is the ultimate way to drive empathy. But beyond that,

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Speaker 8: it’s anchoring and being respectful and listening. to that actual

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Speaker 8: salesperson or brand marketer or digital accelerator’s needs so we

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Speaker 8: can quickly advance together.

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Speaker 9: Especially as it relates to digital commerce, everyone’s at a

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Speaker 9: different stage in that journey. And that’s really how we

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Speaker 9: want to look at it because an emerging market and

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Speaker 9: their needs and where they’re at in that journey what

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Speaker 9: they’re prioritizing and funding is going to look very different

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Speaker 9: than where an advanced market is. So we think about

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Speaker 9: our digital commerce markets by that maturity of digital commerce, right?

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Speaker 9: So are they emerging, accelerating, or developed?

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Speaker 2: That looks at the size of the.

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Speaker 9: E-commerce within the market, the fragmentation, our share of e-commerce

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Speaker 9: in that market, et cetera. But while that’s at a

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Speaker 9: market level, and it’s the law of averages, we do

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Speaker 9: see retailers, even within those markets that are going to

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Speaker 9: differ from that average of like any other average would be.

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Speaker 9: So Chile, for example, that’s an emerging market, but we

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Speaker 9: have retailers that are doing amazing things and we would

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Speaker 9: compare them and consider them best in class to a

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Speaker 9: developed market like the US. So it just depends where

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Speaker 9: they’re at in that journey. And I think the way

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Speaker 9: we articulate that is by developing certain KPIs and criteria

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Speaker 9: and for what we would consider a picture of success

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Speaker 9: by that stage of the journey. So the picture of

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Speaker 9: success and the KPIs, the standards you’re being held to

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Speaker 9: are very different and more basic foundational at an emerging level.

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Speaker 9: They’re going to build from there because you can’t forget

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Speaker 9: about the basics as you move up to advance. But

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Speaker 9: we have those differences laid out in a checklist and

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Speaker 9: a picture of success that just launched actually. And that

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Speaker 9: goes across the flywheel. So it goes back to those

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Speaker 9: fundamentals of flywheel.

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Speaker 2: We all have the same.

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Speaker 9: It all comes back to those principles, but how we

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Speaker 9: apply them and how we advance them is where you’re

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Speaker 9: going to see the differences. And I think oftentimes, yes,

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Speaker 9: we may overlook some of those less advanced markets, but

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Speaker 9: they actually bring a lot of great benefit. We learn

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Speaker 9: things around being scrappy there, dealing with a lot of ambiguity.

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Speaker 9: We complain about there not being enough data, the data

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Speaker 9: being messy. Well, they’re blind, blind, and they’re doing some

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Speaker 9: great things behind that. And I think it also gives

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Speaker 9: us a testing ground because the retailers are less advanced

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Speaker 9: in their journey too. They are looking for that thought

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Speaker 9: leadership and they’re looking to partner and we can come

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Speaker 9: in and use it as a testing ground to really

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Speaker 9: learn together and iterate and before trying to go sell

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Speaker 9: that into a much larger and more complex customer market.

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Speaker 9: We all play a role here, and it’s really just

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Speaker 9: understanding where that market or that specific customer is on

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Speaker 9: that journey, and then holding them to those different standards

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Speaker 9: and always giving them inspiration to get to the next, right?

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Speaker 9: What’s next? And that’s how we get inspiration from those

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Speaker 9: more advanced markets as well.

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Speaker 4: Sarah Travis, Roundel, Media Reimagined by Target.

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Speaker 13: I think I need to tap into bravery every single

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Speaker 13: day in my job. Every single time I need to

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Speaker 13: get on stage in front of a big audience, I

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Speaker 13: need to be brave. I have conversations every week where

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Speaker 13: I need to take a risk or have a difficult

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Speaker 13: conversation with somebody. If I have to go to a

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Speaker 13: cocktail party by myself, I feel like I need to

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Speaker 13: be brave, right? And so there are all of these

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Speaker 13: moments that happen in my career where I need to

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Speaker 13: push myself out of my comfort zone. When I reflect

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Speaker 13: on my own experience, I had a couple of women

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Speaker 13: say the right things to me in the right moments

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Speaker 13: that made all the difference in my ability to be

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Speaker 13: where I am. Maybe just two quick examples. The first

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Speaker 13: was from very early in my career at Google. I

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Speaker 13: have two daughters. They’re 10 and 13. And so I

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Speaker 13: was pregnant with my first daughter. And Claire Hughes Johnson,

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Speaker 13: who was a leader at Google at the time, would

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Speaker 13: call women into her office and have a quick session

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Speaker 13: before they went on their first maternity leave. And I

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Speaker 13: remember she said to me, Sarah, balance doesn’t happen in

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Speaker 13: a day or in a week. There are going to

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Speaker 13: be days you give more to your family. There are

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Speaker 13: going to be days that you give more to your job.

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Speaker 13: Balance happens over time. And you got to release the

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Speaker 13: guilt and know that balance happens over time. And that

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Speaker 13: honestly has been in the back of my head my

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Speaker 13: whole career. And then I had one other moment. And

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Speaker 13: this was when I was just starting to move into

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Speaker 13: or consider moving into a more senior leadership role. I

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Speaker 13: had two daughters at the time. And I had an

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Speaker 13: executive coach who I was working with at Google and

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Speaker 13: there was a big job that opened up and I

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Speaker 13: was thinking about going for it. And I said to her,

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Speaker 13: I said, I don’t know if I can do this. Like,

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Speaker 13: I don’t know if I can take on a bigger job.

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Speaker 13: I can’t take on any more. I already have so

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Speaker 13: much going on. She said, don’t stop. Don’t do that.

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Speaker 13: Women do this. They think a bigger job means more work.

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Speaker 13: It just means different work. And that little statement that

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Speaker 13: she made to me, had she not made that, I

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Speaker 13: wouldn’t be where I am today.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was amazing to listen to all of the

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Speaker 3: great women who we’ve had on the show. And honestly,

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Speaker 3: this compilation was only the cherry on top. There’s dozens

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Speaker 3: more women leaders that you can listen to.

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Speaker 6: So go through the backlog.

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Speaker 3: Sarah and I are so appreciative of our overall Brave

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Speaker 3: Commerce community and especially grateful for all of our female

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Speaker 3: friendships that we have created because of this show. If

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Speaker 3: you like the episode, write a review, tell your friend,

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Speaker 3: share on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 5: Thank you. Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer

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Speaker 5: at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a

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Speaker 5: new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad

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Speaker 5: gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once.

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Speaker 5: As a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating

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Speaker 5: and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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Speaker 5: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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Speaker 5: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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Speaker 5: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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Speaker 5: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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Speaker 5: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.