Brave Commerce

Hosted ByRachel Tipograph & Sarah Hofstetter

MikMak Founder & CEO Rachel Tipograph and Profitero’s President Sarah Hofstetter tackle what’s relevant in eCommerce today for the world’s biggest brands. Each episode they’ll share tips worth millions in sales, while interviewing the bravest marketers on how to navigate eCommerce’s latest consumer and retailer dynamics.

BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode 109: Ben Goodwin of OLIPOP on Balancing Flavor and Health in the Beverage Industry

Brave Commerce
Brave Commerce
BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode 109: Ben Goodwin of OLIPOP on Balancing Flavor and Health in the Beverage Industry
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In this episode of BRAVE COMMERCE, Ben Goodwin, Co-Founder, CEO, and Formulator of OLIPOP, joins hosts Rachel Tipograph and Sarah Hofstetter to offer insights into the challenges and strategies involved in creating products that bring both enjoyment and health benefits to consumers.

As the conversation begins, Ben shares his early experiences consuming a standard American diet and dealing with health issues, which led him to focus on nutrition from a young age. This early interest guided him into the beverage industry, specifically focusing on functional beverages and probiotics. He shares how his work in kombucha and other fermented beverages sparked his fascination with the microbiome, the brain-gut axis, and their impact on cognitive function and emotional stability.

Ben then delves into OLIPOP’s origins, explaining how the product is designed to mimic traditional soda while providing health benefits through fiber, prebiotics, and nutritional diversity. OLIPOP is positioned as the first fiber, prebiotic, functional soda on the market, aiming to offer consumers the familiar soda experience while improving their health.

The conversation touches on the challenges and strategies involved in creating a new market category, including the brand’s focus on distribution, pricing, and accessibility. Ben explains OLIPOP’s partnerships with insurance providers to make the product more accessible to those in high-need groups, as well as its participation in SNAP and its eligibility for HSA and FSA spending.

Ben also discusses OLIPOP’s social media presence, particularly its successful use of TikTok as a marketing platform. He shares how the brand leveraged influencers and creative content to connect with younger audiences, as well as the balance between low and high funnel marketing strategies. Ben also sheds light on his approach to brand building including a focus on longevity, reflected in investments in channels like out-of-home advertising and connected TV.

Key takeaways:

● Understand and address consumer needs with empathy and without judgment

● Balance affordability and accessibility in product distribution

● Invest in strategies that prioritize brand longevity through genuine storytelling and brand


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Speaker 1: We grew up in a world where purposefully Soda by

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Speaker 1: design was within arm’s reach at all times. It was

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Speaker 1: a part of so many special moments that all of

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Speaker 1: us have had as Americans growing up. So it’s a

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Speaker 1: part of a lot of people’s core identities. And so

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Speaker 1: having a brand and product platform that was actually driven

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Speaker 1: by empathy and meeting the consumer where they were and

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Speaker 1: then replicating the Soda experience the most spot on. And

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Speaker 1: then by the way, you can, fall in love with

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Speaker 1: the product without feeling like you’re trading your health in

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Speaker 1: down the road, right? Which also means that if you’re

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Speaker 1: a parent, you can actually give something to your kid.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: I’m Rachel Typograph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstetter, president of Profitero.

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Speaker 3: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 3: in e-commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 4: Sarah, do you have any patents?

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Speaker 2: I love when you find these interesting questions to open

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Speaker 2: the podcast with. I’ve never been asked that, and it’s

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Speaker 2: because I don’t have any. But I have a funny

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Speaker 2: feeling if I ask you that back, I’m going to

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Speaker 2: get a very different answer.

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Speaker 4: Rachel, do you have patents?

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Speaker 3: I have one patent, and it is the patent of

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Speaker 3: the original Micmac product, which was to instantiate add-to-cart sessions

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Speaker 3: in media. We hold the patent for that and we

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Speaker 3: filed for it in 2016.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: That is pretty extraordinary. Have you ever gone after anybody

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Speaker 2: on it?

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Speaker 3: I haven’t.

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Speaker 4: I have a lot of feelings about patents.

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Speaker 3: And personally, I think in the world that we live in,

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Speaker 3: it’s really easy to invent patents. You’re essentially writing an application.

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Speaker 3: And if you write it slightly differently, then maybe you

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Speaker 3: can get a patent for a slightly different way that

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Speaker 3: someone does something. So I think there’s a, there’s a

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Speaker 3: lot of smoke and mirrors to patents, at least in software,

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Speaker 3: it might be different in, in medicine or food, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Clearly the ones who wrote it for medicine and figured

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Speaker 2: out something very special, hence these weight loss things costing

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Speaker 2: so much damn money, but I digress. But what’s interesting

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Speaker 2: about the patent thing though, is that it’s anybody’s even

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Speaker 2: thinking about patents is, you know, unless they’re, you know,

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Speaker 2: a shyster is because they’re inventing things. And there’s something

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Speaker 2: really special about inventors in general, but those just come

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Speaker 2: up with original ideas. It could be stringing across different things.

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Speaker 2: Think about Steve Jobs saying, well, what if I could

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Speaker 2: take my MP3 on my phone and make them one thing?

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Speaker 2: That is an invention. It doesn’t necessarily mean have to

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Speaker 2: be like, you know, Ben Franklin and lightning, but The

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Speaker 2: fact that you have actually invented something is just so

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Speaker 2: incredibly extraordinary versus being a combination of a fast follower

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Speaker 2: or a pivoter, if you will.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The process of invention is, for me, it’s just so fun.

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Speaker 3: But it really doesn’t stop there. I think it’s about

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Speaker 3: the willingness to make it a reality no matter what

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Speaker 3: comes your way.

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Speaker 2: So the combination of invention and entrepreneurship. Are you a

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Speaker 2: kind of person that’s an SBI or a GSD? Do

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Speaker 2: you see big ideas or do you get shit done?

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Speaker 2: And if you can be both, then you have a

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Speaker 2: spot in leadership.

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Speaker 4: You could be one or the other.

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Speaker 2: You could be really like, that’ll get you to management.

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Speaker 2: But are you an SBI or are you a GSD?

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Speaker 2: And you, my friends, are an SBI and a GSD.

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Speaker 2: I know it’s so catchy, right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I’m also a TIPO.

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Speaker 3: It’s always so great to meet other founders, entrepreneurs.

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Speaker 4: Product developers.

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Speaker 3: And it’s also really cool when you get to meet

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Speaker 3: someone who’s actually created a physical product. And Sarah and

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Speaker 3: I have the great pleasure of talking with someone who

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Speaker 3: is the creator of Olipop. If You know, Alipop, you

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Speaker 3: know that they essentially created the good for you, good

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Speaker 3: for your gut soda market. And here’s a founder that

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Speaker 3: when you listen to him, you will hear his passion,

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Speaker 3: how long he’s been playing in the fermentation space and

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Speaker 3: how he sees the world. Today, we are very excited

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Speaker 3: to have a fellow entrepreneur onto the show, Ben Goodwin,

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Speaker 3: who’s the co-founder and CEO of Olipop, who I truly

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Speaker 3: believe one day will become one of the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 4: So, Ben, welcome.

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Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me. I’m thrilled to be here.

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Speaker 3: I’ve been drinking Olipop for… at least the last few years,

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Speaker 3: I was trying to pinpoint the exact date. I think

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Speaker 3: I experienced it on a cafe in the Lower East

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Speaker 3: Side called Paws Cafe, where you’re distributed. But your history

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Speaker 3: goes way back. You’ve been playing around in the product

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Speaker 3: development space for, it seems like, 20 years when I

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Speaker 3: look at your LinkedIn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: That’s a long time. And it feels like you’ve really

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Speaker 3: been nerding out in the fermentation and probiotic space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Way before it was ever in vogue, because I feel

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Speaker 3: like that’s really come to life in maybe like the

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Speaker 3: last five years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: What drives your passion in this area?

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Speaker 1: Only 20. Feels like 50. Beverage entrepreneurialism is not for

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Speaker 1: the faint of heart. But no, you’re totally right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so by background, I grew up lower income, consuming a

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Speaker 1: standard American diet, which included plenty of soda. That didn’t

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Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that tends to get associated with that.

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Speaker 1: At 14, I actually had this kind of self-facilitated pivot,

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Speaker 1: like life pivot, where I became really focused on nutrition.

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Speaker 4: At 14?

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Speaker 1: 14, yeah. I still remember the day.

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Speaker 2: So this is not even a quarter-life crisis. This is

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Speaker 2: a teenage crisis about your nutrition.

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Speaker 1: Literally, I had an existential crisis. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that I end up doing, it’s based on a

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Speaker 1: fairly simple premise. It’s like, wow, I’m overweight, I’m anxious,

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Speaker 1: this isn’t going great. I was raised without any kind

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Speaker 1: of spiritual or religious background. So I just had no,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don’t know what happens when I die.

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Speaker 1: I don’t know why we’re here. And I just like

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Speaker 1: circled around this one concept, which is basically, at least

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Speaker 1: I’d like to have a good life. And there’s no

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Speaker 1: way that this trajectory resolves to be a good life.

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Speaker 1: And so literally overnight, I shifted a bunch of things.

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Speaker 1: I lost like 50 pounds in less than a year.

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Speaker 1: I shifted a bunch of my friends. Eventually, I started

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Speaker 1: going to therapy, yada, yada. You know, the thing that

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Speaker 1: was really impactful for me about it is it took

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Speaker 1: a lot of discipline, and I grew a lot from that. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: like body composition and energy shifted as part of that.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that was the most impactful over the

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Speaker 1: years as I focused on nutrition was really my kind

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Speaker 1: of cognitive and emotional functioning increased. And especially coming out

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Speaker 1: of a more challenging environment, I became really thrilled by, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is a real kind of self-actualization and self-empowerment tool

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Speaker 1: that you as an individual can have a lot of

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Speaker 1: control of. There’s a lot of things in your life

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Speaker 1: you can’t. So I had that personal experience that was

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Speaker 1: pretty paradigm shifting for me. And at 20, dropped out

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Speaker 1: of college for a range of reasons. Again, growing up

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Speaker 1: low income, had a mentor that was pretty impactful on me.

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Speaker 1: and went into the health and wellness space and like

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Speaker 1: a moth to the flame went towards beverage. But, you know,

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Speaker 1: my drive has always been around, again, this is one

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Speaker 1: of those like overly simplistic things, but just like building

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Speaker 1: a life around meaning and that meaning being how do

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Speaker 1: we create the most good that I can at scale

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Speaker 1: while I’m alive. I had this personal experience with health

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Speaker 1: and wellness, how transformative it could be. And I still

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Speaker 1: get where we’re kind of at as a country and

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Speaker 1: the kind of general, Poor health outcomes, 40% type 2

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Speaker 1: diabetes and pre-diabetes rate. CDC predicts that by 2050, 1.3

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Speaker 1: billion people will have type 2 diabetes. Totally self-inflicted epidemic

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Speaker 1: of unimaginable proportions. CDC numbers, again, 60, 70% of Americans

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Speaker 1: have chronic digestive distress. At 20, I dropped out of

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Speaker 1: college and helped a friend start a kombucha company. It

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Speaker 1: wasn’t even like a particularly knew what kombucha was at

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Speaker 1: the time. I was like, this sounds really interesting, but

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Speaker 1: it was working on kombucha that I learned what the

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Speaker 1: microbiome is. And then when I learned about the microbiome,

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Speaker 1: so one thing about my, the way I work is

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Speaker 1: when I get into stuff, I get really into stuff.

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Speaker 1: And so I go down these rabbit holes and I

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Speaker 1: learned about the brain gut axis. So we produce most

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Speaker 1: of our neurotransmitters and hormones via fermentation in our microbiome.

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Speaker 1: And it can have a really profound impact on cognitive

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Speaker 1: function and emotional stability. And then I I did the

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Speaker 1: math on, oh, wow, that might’ve been a big part

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Speaker 1: of what shifted for me. So really a lot of

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Speaker 1: my adult life has become about if the microbiome is

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Speaker 1: this incredibly leveraged way to create systemic positive change at

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Speaker 1: the physical and kind of being level of a person,

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Speaker 1: is there a way I can actually take some empirically

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Speaker 1: validated nutritional strategies and put it in like a Trojan

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Speaker 1: horse format You know, in terms of like the areas

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Speaker 1: of focus, so for sure, I was into microbiome, I guess,

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Speaker 1: before it was more popularized. Fermentation before it was more popularized.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Olipop objectively is the first fiber prebiotic functional

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Speaker 1: soda to market. A lot of that is because I

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Speaker 1: find a lot of inspiration. I spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time looking at emergent clinical literature. I don’t think a

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Speaker 1: lot of entrepreneurs in the health and wellness space start

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Speaker 1: from that place and you’re kind of looking at the

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Speaker 1: literature and you’re saying okay this is really really interesting

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Speaker 1: data but like how do i comb through this and

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Speaker 1: take all these raw points and transform them into a

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Speaker 1: product that’s where that work has to happen that was

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Speaker 1: exactly it i mean cause you know, I spent a

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Speaker 1: long time in fermentation and probiotics when the kind of

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Speaker 1: prevailing norm was that that would be the best way

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Speaker 1: to affect the microbiome. Then the commercial consumer grade probiotics

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Speaker 1: were really falling short of that promise. They were, they

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Speaker 1: were transient, they weren’t surviving the bottle or pill. And well,

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Speaker 1: I’m just really fortunate that there’s this other emergent field

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Speaker 1: arriving at the same time, which is, oh, actually, it’s

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Speaker 1: like their diets. When you look at indigenous groups, when

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Speaker 1: you look at kind of hunter-gatherer tribes, of course, they’re

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Speaker 1: not taking probiotic supplements. They’re just they’re eating all these

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Speaker 1: different nutrients that are missing from the industrialized diet. Oh, fascinating.

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Speaker 1: What’s that? And so that ended up creating our nutritional platform,

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Speaker 1: which is fiber, prebiotics, nutritional diversity.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Those are the three big things that are present in

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Speaker 1: these these indigenous diets that are missing from the industrialized diet.

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Speaker 4: And.

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Speaker 1: That’s why we have OlliSmart in the product as well.

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Speaker 1: It’s not some of the competitive set has just like

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Speaker 1: a small amount of one type of fiber. We have

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Speaker 1: a larger fiber load spread out across a range of

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Speaker 1: different ingredients because we’re trying to actually match that kind

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Speaker 1: of nutrition profile.

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Speaker 3: Amazing to see the origin and clearly the rabbit hole

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Speaker 3: that you’ve gone down to identify the opportunity. But then

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Speaker 3: you took that opportunity and you shoved it into a

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Speaker 3: soda can.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 4: And so… Whether that was a stroke.

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Speaker 3: Of genius or luck, and I have.

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Speaker 4: A feeling it’s both.

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Speaker 1: Or hubris. Just hubris.

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: You kind of created this whole good-for-you soda category. So

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Speaker 3: when you create a new market, there’s probably three to

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Speaker 3: five things that you look back where you’re like, whoa,

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Speaker 3: those were the core building blocks of really creating this category.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 4: Upon reflection, how do you think about that?

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Speaker 1: It’s a really great point. I mean, there were a

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Speaker 1: range of, let’s call them harm reduction or better for

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Speaker 1: you soda offerings. Xebia is a great example. It’s okay,

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Speaker 1: it’s not loaded with the sugar, but it’s not necessarily

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Speaker 1: providing a discrete benefit other than the harm reduction aspect.

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Speaker 1: So Olipop really was the first actual functional soda on

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Speaker 1: the market. We kind of centered around digestive health as

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Speaker 1: the opening bid for because there’s the kind of cleanest

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Speaker 1: claim around that. But right now we’re actually moving into

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Speaker 1: human clinical trials, looking at blood sugar stability and metabolic health,

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Speaker 1: because obviously that’s the great scourge of a lot of

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Speaker 1: the sugar sweetened beverages. And so like, I think that

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Speaker 1: the novelty and the have your cake and eat it

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Speaker 1: too aspect of the product has been really, really important.

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Speaker 1: We got really curious about what is really driving our

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Speaker 1: core consumers because, you know, we’ve had triple digit growth

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Speaker 1: every year since inception. In 2020, we grew like 960%.

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Speaker 1: And even we were floored because we’re like, of course,

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Speaker 1: you’re an entrepreneur. You hope and expect that your product’s

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Speaker 1: going to get some traction, but it’s hard to anticipate that.

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Speaker 1: So we actually did a big chunk of qual, quant,

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Speaker 1: consumer and expert research to try to figure out what

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Speaker 1: is going on with this deep consumer affinity. Why has

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Speaker 1: it been so fast out the gate? And our customers do…

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Speaker 1: really like that there’s function. They like that it has

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Speaker 1: a certain level of scientific credibility behind it, which is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily common in the industry. But one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest drivers that really built the core of the brand

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Speaker 1: actually came from, I’d argue maybe like more like the

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Speaker 1: formulation side, because I also do 100% of our formulation.

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Speaker 1: And it’s the flavor profile and the general experience between

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Speaker 1: the pack architecture, the flavor profile, matches the traditional soda

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Speaker 1: experience that they’re trying to replace the best and the

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Speaker 1: general brand ethos. We’re not coming from a place of

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Speaker 1: like elitism. We’re not trying to shame anybody for consuming soda.

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Speaker 1: So it is delicious. Like empirically, it is mechanically designed

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Speaker 1: to be extremely delicious. You know, we grew up in

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Speaker 1: a world where purposefully soda by design was within arm’s

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Speaker 1: reach at all times. It was a part of so

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Speaker 1: many special moments that all of us have had as

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Speaker 1: Americans or most of us growing up. So it’s a

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Speaker 1: part of a lot of people’s core identities. And so

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Speaker 1: having a brand and product platform that was actually driven

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Speaker 1: by empathy and meeting the consumer where they were and

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Speaker 1: then replicating the Soda experience the most spot on. And

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Speaker 1: then by the way, you can fall in love with

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Speaker 1: the product without feeling like you’re trading your health in

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Speaker 1: down the road, right? Which also means that if you’re

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Speaker 1: a parent, you can actually give something to your kid

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Speaker 1: You can tell your kid all day, like, don’t drink

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Speaker 1: a lot of soda, but they’re going to go to

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Speaker 1: school or they’re going to hang out with their friends

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Speaker 1: and they’re going to do it anyway. So having a

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Speaker 1: really great alternative that people actually genuinely enjoy consuming is

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Speaker 1: so important to actually getting that consumer adoption and affinity.

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Speaker 4: Let’s talk a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit about the whole idea of being, you know, within

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Speaker 2: arm’s reach, right? Like one of the things that has

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Speaker 2: made soda as ubiquitous as it is, is some highly

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Speaker 2: entrenched close to 200-year-old companies that have been figuring how

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Speaker 2: to do that for years. And so the behavior is

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Speaker 2: already there for sure. Distribution is a whole other story

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Speaker 2: specifically for Olipop. And price point is another critical component

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Speaker 2: to it. And you guys are obviously at a very

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Speaker 2: different price point than some of the not as good

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Speaker 2: for you solutions, if you will. So how do you

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Speaker 2: think about the balance of both distribution and affordability as

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Speaker 2: you think about scaling beyond the core of of those

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Speaker 2: who are really caring deeply about the things that you

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Speaker 2: are clearly so passionate about. And Rachel and I obviously echo.

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Speaker 2: As a Jewish Ashkenazi, gut health is a very important

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Speaker 2: thing for me. I am in your target market, my friend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, such a great question. And I love it. It’s

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Speaker 1: really interesting because soda is actually the second most priced

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Speaker 1: inelastic beverage. It’s second only to coffee. Which is counterintuitive

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Speaker 1: because of the low price that’s typically associated with it.

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Speaker 1: But that inelasticity is one of the reasons why a

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Speaker 1: lot of the soda taxes actually haven’t worked. Because they’ve

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Speaker 1: only suppressed purchasing behavior in the lowest 10% socioeconomically. The

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Speaker 1: rest of the population just picked up the tax and

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Speaker 1: carried on. Which, ironically, I did not know that when launching.

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Speaker 1: launching my prior venture, which is also just a different

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Speaker 1: format of a functional soda, but it’s obviously been extremely helpful.

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Speaker 1: So we launched in the natural channel where you have

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Speaker 1: people who are more label readers. We also, generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: launched in slightly more affluent kind of areas. But from

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Speaker 1: the beginning, it was always our goal to hop the

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Speaker 1: fence over into conventional retail areas. the Midwest, the South,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, as quickly as we could, because that’s the

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Speaker 1: whole essence of actually meeting consumers where they are. I

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Speaker 1: think oftentimes kind of your Midwestern consumer is like, okay, great.

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Speaker 1: The coasts get all this weird esoteric innovation. None of

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Speaker 1: it really feels fit for us or targeted towards us.

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Speaker 1: They want innovation also. And so, you know, now the

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Speaker 1: biggest by far area of our revenue is out of

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Speaker 1: conventional retail. It’s the big nationwide chains that you would

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Speaker 1: expect that have really heavy presence in the Midwest and

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Speaker 1: really heavy presence in the South. And that is now

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Speaker 1: for consumer. They are willing to pay the price because

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Speaker 1: they perceive that the value is there in that they

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Speaker 1: can have their soda experience and they don’t have to

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Speaker 1: make that trade-off. Now, in terms of accessibility, one of

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Speaker 1: those things where I don’t know exactly what Coke and

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Speaker 1: Pepsi’s margins are, but obviously the scale at which they’re

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Speaker 1: manufacturing and the price of their ingredients and et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, help them to really bring price down.

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Speaker 1: When we look at our margin, we’re just trying to

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Speaker 1: build a margin that’s sane for our businesses survival. So

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Speaker 1: it’s not like we’re just artificially jacking up the price

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Speaker 1: and rolling in bags of money just for fun. But

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Speaker 1: you know, there are some steps that we’ve taken to

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Speaker 1: increase accessibility, especially with high needs groups, right? So one

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Speaker 1: of the things that is a byproduct of all the

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Speaker 1: research that we’ve done, and we’ve done a really atypically

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Speaker 1: high amount for the health and wellness category is partnerships

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Speaker 1: with insurance providers. So we currently cover over 25 million

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Speaker 1: Americans as part of their food as medicine or beverage

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Speaker 1: as medicine insurance benefits.

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Speaker 2: Like FSA?

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Speaker 1: No, we partnered with groups that actually are directly involved

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Speaker 1: in the insurance reimbursement systems. So we are also looking

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Speaker 1: at HSA and FSA. And we do see quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of SNAP redemption as well, because the kind of

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Speaker 1: healthy nature of the product allows us to be a

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Speaker 1: part of the SNAP system. But this is actually real

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Speaker 1: insurance programs. And it’s great too. And we’re doing more

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Speaker 1: work in this area. In fact, kind of creating new

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Speaker 1: insurance partnerships as well, just specifically work with higher needs

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Speaker 1: groups while also driving some accessibility around it. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: that’s one of the, in theory, we’re definitely blazing a

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Speaker 1: new path here because this is not something that beverage

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Speaker 1: typically does, health and wellness products typically do, but it

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Speaker 1: is a part of us kind of trying to find

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Speaker 1: a sane and sustainable way to ensure that accessibility for

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Speaker 1: folks who need it while also building a business that

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Speaker 1: makes sense.

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Speaker 3: It’s so much bigger than Olipop, right? It’s how do

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Speaker 3: you make accessible, healthy foods and drinks available to the masses?

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Speaker 3: But speaking of masses, I remember there was a period

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Speaker 3: of time where Olipop was always cited as like a

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Speaker 3: TikTok brand.

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Speaker 4: Case study in CPG.

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Speaker 3: It felt like TikTok discovered Olipop before any other CPG

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Speaker 3: brand did. And so just curious, like when you think

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Speaker 3: about distribution and product discovery, where does social fit into

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Speaker 3: your strategy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, look, it’s a really efficient channel, especially

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Speaker 1: platforms that interact with younger audience, right? And obviously TikTok

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Speaker 1: over indexes Gen Z and then, you know, increasingly Gen Alpha,

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Speaker 1: which by the nature of more digitally native cohorts, you know,

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Speaker 1: increases kind of communication speed, especially when TikTok was a

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Speaker 1: less established and emergent platform. Everything about it was really

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Speaker 1: cost effective. I think we came up with a pretty

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Speaker 1: cool strategy, which was actually, trying to find great creators

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Speaker 1: and then really kind of like allowing them to have

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Speaker 1: their own creative vision in terms of how they brought

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Speaker 1: amplification to life around the brand. It was really just

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Speaker 1: a matter of, we spent against multiple platforms and we

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Speaker 1: just found that our spend and our efforts against TikTok,

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Speaker 1: especially first half of last year, that’s kind of when

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Speaker 1: our investment at TikTok was at its kind of highest.

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Speaker 1: It was really like a time and a place thing.

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Speaker 1: That was a time when the kind of Season was

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Speaker 1: open for it, and it’s simply where we got the

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Speaker 1: most leverage. We still invest in TikTok, obviously, and against

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Speaker 1: all the other platforms as well. Also, we did launch

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Speaker 1: a proper, respectable adult ad with Camila Cabello last year. Look,

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Speaker 1: I would say I’m really proud of the nature of

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Speaker 1: that ad and the way it told the brand story.

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Speaker 1: And I would even argue the ratio of spend against

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Speaker 1: it versus the ratio of spend on TikTok probably was

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Speaker 1: markedly lower in terms of efficiency. But that’s the important

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Speaker 1: balance that you try to work out. It’s like, what’s

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Speaker 1: your low funnel, mid funnel, and high funnel in terms

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Speaker 1: of your brand narrative architecture? We do think it’s really,

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00:21:42,890 –> 00:21:45,050
Speaker 1: really important that we don’t just build the brand through

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00:21:45,210 –> 00:21:47,570
Speaker 1: influencer and social because you don’t want to have a

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00:21:47,650 –> 00:21:54,910
Speaker 1: really short shelf life and depth dynamic simultaneously. the spend

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00:21:54,930 –> 00:21:57,379
Speaker 1: and effort is so efficient that it definitely needs to

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00:21:57,390 –> 00:21:58,619
Speaker 1: be part of your mix. And so that’s kind of

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00:21:58,630 –> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: how we look at TikTok and social.

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Speaker 3: So when it comes to longevity in terms of brand building,

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Speaker 3: that’s when you think about channels like out of home

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Speaker 3: and CTV.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent, because like, I

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00:22:11,040 –> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: think one of the things that came out of the

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00:22:14,420 –> 00:22:17,889
Speaker 1: research we did with our consumers was trying to get

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Speaker 1: a sense of just what was at the core of

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00:22:20,050 –> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: their love for the brand and good, Brand building finds

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00:22:23,820 –> 00:22:28,460
Speaker 1: a way to understand that, encapsulate that and reflect that

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00:22:28,619 –> 00:22:31,350
Speaker 1: back in a way that’s authentic for the brand. And

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00:22:31,369 –> 00:22:34,290
Speaker 1: that’s when you think about legacy, we’re trying to build

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00:22:34,330 –> 00:22:37,270
Speaker 1: a brand over the last decades. That’s the kind of

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00:22:37,310 –> 00:22:39,010
Speaker 1: work you really have to invest in.

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Speaker 3: Well, then we could pick your brain forever, Sarah and I,

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00:22:43,010 –> 00:22:45,870
Speaker 3: but we have to ask you our famous last question,

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Speaker 3: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: Brave commerce. I’m sure the two of you have faced

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00:22:52,940 –> 00:22:55,540
Speaker 1: your own iterations of this. You know, when you have

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00:22:55,560 –> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: a mission-based identity and business in a category that is

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00:23:02,330 –> 00:23:06,609
Speaker 1: a meat grinder, there’s a lot of bravery associated with that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it’s something like 0.4% of beverage

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00:23:10,190 –> 00:23:13,710
Speaker 1: businesses make it to $ 10 million, right? So it’s like

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00:23:13,710 –> 00:23:19,310
Speaker 1: 0.1 or 0.0. It’s this astronomically small number of beverage

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00:23:19,350 –> 00:23:21,869
Speaker 1: brands that make it to where we are now and

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00:23:21,910 –> 00:23:28,810
Speaker 1: where we’re going. Being mission centric and making really intense

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00:23:28,850 –> 00:23:34,290
Speaker 1: choices about that, both when times are challenging, but also

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00:23:34,600 –> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: when you’re achieving success, they both take courage, but in

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00:23:39,320 –> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: different ways, right? I’ve had times in my air quotes career, right?

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00:23:43,820 –> 00:23:46,820
Speaker 1: Much earlier prior where I had no money. I was

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00:23:46,920 –> 00:23:49,460
Speaker 1: out of money and people would show up. wanting to

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00:23:49,500 –> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: make an investment or wanting to partner up and it

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00:23:51,900 –> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 1: would have taken care of all of my financial problems.

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00:23:54,290 –> 00:24:01,030
Speaker 1: But I knew that that choice would compromise the long-term mission.

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00:24:01,730 –> 00:24:03,790
Speaker 1: I’ve been in multiple instances where I’ve turned those types

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00:24:03,830 –> 00:24:09,570
Speaker 1: of situations down without knowing what the actual solution is, right?

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00:24:09,609 –> 00:24:14,130
Speaker 1: But knowing that if I compromise now, I’m never gonna

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00:24:14,170 –> 00:24:16,050
Speaker 1: be able to get this back on track. Same thing

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00:24:16,109 –> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: once you start to achieve success, But from the opposite side,

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00:24:19,460 –> 00:24:23,330
Speaker 1: it’s hard. I see it all the time with people

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00:24:23,350 –> 00:24:26,650
Speaker 1: who get promoted too quickly into leadership positions. It’s actually

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00:24:27,350 –> 00:24:31,830
Speaker 1: hard to almost integrate what’s happening. And then a bunch

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00:24:31,850 –> 00:24:34,230
Speaker 1: of people show up, you go from being an entrepreneur

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00:24:34,270 –> 00:24:38,460
Speaker 1: that everybody ignored to an entrepreneur that everybody lauds. And

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00:24:39,440 –> 00:24:42,780
Speaker 1: you can’t let that turn into some sort of self-protection

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00:24:42,859 –> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: ego either, because that starts to corrupt your ability to

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00:24:45,960 –> 00:24:49,310
Speaker 1: make mission-driven decisions because you put yourself too in the

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00:24:49,350 –> 00:24:52,469
Speaker 1: mix around your choice making. So I would say like

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00:24:52,530 –> 00:24:57,550
Speaker 1: it really does take a lot of bravery to continuously,

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00:24:57,570 –> 00:25:00,090
Speaker 1: no matter kind of where the wind is blowing on

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00:25:00,109 –> 00:25:03,620
Speaker 1: any particular day, to really just day in, day out,

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00:25:03,730 –> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: recenter yourself around what the mission is. And if you

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00:25:06,920 –> 00:25:10,060
Speaker 1: do it successfully, it’s an incredible point of strength for

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00:25:10,119 –> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: you as an entrepreneur, but it also becomes an incredibly

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00:25:12,780 –> 00:25:17,140
Speaker 1: important rallying cry for your organization. So yeah, it’s taken

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Speaker 1: quite a bit to keep myself like stable. in all

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00:25:20,859 –> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: the different ups and downs that have happened over the

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00:25:22,820 –> 00:25:24,899
Speaker 1: last almost two decades, as you called it.

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Speaker 3: Something tells me you’re going to have at least two

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00:25:27,430 –> 00:25:30,810
Speaker 3: decades more of success. Ben, we’re so appreciative of your time.

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Speaker 3: It’s very clear that you’re centered by your mission and

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00:25:33,650 –> 00:25:37,010
Speaker 3: your values. And folks, if you haven’t tried Alipop, hit

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00:25:37,050 –> 00:25:40,310
Speaker 3: a store, whether it’s a big one or a small one,

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00:25:40,410 –> 00:25:43,369
Speaker 3: it’s essentially readily available everywhere right now in the U.S.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate being on.

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Speaker 1: It was a great conversation.

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Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this episode and you want to go

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00:25:51,800 –> 00:25:57,020
Speaker 3: check out other episodes with entrepreneurs in the overall beverage

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00:25:57,060 –> 00:25:59,379
Speaker 3: and food space, we have actually quite a few episodes.

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00:25:59,740 –> 00:26:04,310
Speaker 3: You can go check out Denise Woodward from Partake, who

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Speaker 3: created a whole gluten-free snack company from her experience raising

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00:26:09,350 –> 00:26:12,790
Speaker 3: her daughter after being an executive at Coca-Cola. You can

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00:26:12,910 –> 00:26:17,389
Speaker 3: also go listen to an episode with an operator of

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Speaker 3: a disruptive beverage brand, Andrew Katz, the CMO of Athletic Brewing.

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Speaker 3: If you are enjoying what you’re hearing, tell a friend,

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00:26:25,140 –> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: share on LinkedIn, write us a review. Thanks for listening.

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00:26:45,400 –> 00:26:49,370
Speaker 2: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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00:26:49,400 –> 00:26:52,169
Speaker 2: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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00:26:52,230 –> 00:26:55,669
Speaker 2: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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00:26:55,710 –> 00:26:59,389
Speaker 2: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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00:26:59,430 –> 00:27:01,730
Speaker 2: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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00:27:01,810 –> 00:27:03,350
Speaker 2: inspiring people on the planet.

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Speaker 3: Now on Touch of Truth, we’re coming centre stage and

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00:27:06,800 –> 00:27:09,260
Speaker 3: sharing the mic to experience stories of truth.

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00:27:09,420 –> 00:27:12,100
Speaker 2: Insights and visions for the future that will challenge your

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00:27:12,140 –> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 2: way of thinking.

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Speaker 3: Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to

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Speaker 2: see you there.