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Speaker 1: Disciplines are smooshing. Marketing, media, technology, content, commerce, social, like

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Speaker 1: what is social, what is not, what is commerce, what

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Speaker 1: is not, and then insert all the buzzwords. All of

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Speaker 1: those things are smooshing together into one. Process doesn’t solve it.

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Speaker 1: But to the extent you can leverage things like that

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Speaker 1: to get the right conversations to happen with the right people,

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Speaker 1: you can actually start to bring things closer together. And

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Speaker 1: then I really do think language… matters. And the words

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Speaker 1: people use matter. We are here in service of consumers.

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Speaker 1: We are here in service of people.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: I’m Rachel Tippegraph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstetter, president of Profitero.

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Speaker 3: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 3: in e-commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah, I recently

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Speaker 3: read a LinkedIn post from a fellow founder of mine.

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Speaker 3: He was talking about how every six months he pretends

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Speaker 3: that he never worked at his company. He comes in

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Speaker 3: and he asks himself, do I have the right organizational

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Speaker 3: chart to now meet.

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Speaker 1: The business needs?

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Speaker 3: And if the answer is no, then he kind of

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Speaker 3: blows the whole things up and he starts to reorganize people.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like a guy I would not like to work for.

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Speaker 2: Just saying.

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Speaker 3: Why is that?

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Speaker 2: Well, if you’re blowing everything up every six months as

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Speaker 2: radically as that, that’s one thing. I mean, if it’s

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Speaker 2: a beautiful metaphor, I totally get it. I do think

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Speaker 2: that you have to be in a constant state of

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Speaker 2: evaluation about your talents against the needs and in the

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Speaker 2: business that we are in, that is so rapidly changing.

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Speaker 2: Organizational design, whether or not you have the right people

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Speaker 2: in the position, the dynamics between that, whether or not

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Speaker 2: you have redundancies, like all of that has to be

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Speaker 2: revisited as quickly as the changes in our clients and

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Speaker 2: the consumer ends up happening, if not more so. So thematically,

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Speaker 2: very aligned. If I were working for somebody that was

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Speaker 2: changing the org diet every six months, my OKRs would

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Speaker 2: be out of whack and I am nothing if not

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Speaker 2: my OKRs.

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Speaker 1: This is true.

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Speaker 3: So in the world where everything is converging, the marketing

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Speaker 3: funnel has collapsed, national digital media and retail media are

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Speaker 3: beginning to look one in the same. How do you

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Speaker 3: suggest that our listeners start to reorganize themselves around the

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Speaker 3: changes that are happening in the ecosystem?

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Speaker 2: I think the first thing to think about is, I

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Speaker 2: would say it’s so much less about the hierarchy and

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Speaker 2: the org chart and so much more on not losing

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Speaker 2: sight of the goal. In 2023, I think 40% of

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Speaker 2: all CPGs that went through some kind of restructure said

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Speaker 2: they could have done it better. And it’s about behavioral change,

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Speaker 2: not moving people from one column to another. So- The

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Speaker 2: question becomes, how do you make sure that you have

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Speaker 2: the right language and that you have the right collective

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Speaker 2: shared consciousness of what the end goal is trying to be?

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Speaker 2: And then everything else, I’m not going to say it’s

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Speaker 2: just going to fall in, but you organize your process

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Speaker 2: and ways of working around that, not around the org chart,

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Speaker 2: because you’re going to have peers coming up against peers

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Speaker 2: where it’s mushy. And I think that’s.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing.

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Speaker 2: The entire CPG industry is was based on making sure

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Speaker 2: that we were able to mirror to different needs. So

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Speaker 2: you’re mirroring to the cost of goods, you’re mirroring to

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Speaker 2: the retailer, you’re mirroring to your agencies, you’re mirroring to

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Speaker 2: like all the different things surrounding you. Now, the things

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Speaker 2: surrounding you are.

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Speaker 1: Super messy, right?

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Speaker 2: Like media companies are retailers and retailers are media companies.

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Speaker 2: And so your entire ecosystem is upended. So then the

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Speaker 2: question is, how do you make it all work when

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Speaker 2: you’re basically in a funhouse and the mirrors are all wackadoodle?

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Speaker 2: So in order to get your clarity, you have to

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Speaker 2: focus on what’s the end goal that you’re trying to achieve.

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Speaker 2: And that can be very challenging, but the risk more

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Speaker 2: than anything else, and I’ve seen this with so many multinationals,

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Speaker 2: so much of this is over-engineering the org chart without

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Speaker 2: changing the behavioral mindset.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that applies well beyond the FMCG industry. Well,

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Speaker 3: who better to hear from than current operator who’s also

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Speaker 3: been on the retailer side. We’re going to bring Luke

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Speaker 3: on to the show from Kimberly Clark.

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Speaker 2: Today, we’re super stoked to have Luke Keigel on. who

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Speaker 2: is the VP of Marketing and Consumer Experience at Kimberly-Clark

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Speaker 2: North America and has become, I think I finally added

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Speaker 2: you to my favorites on my iPhone. So I think

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Speaker 2: we’ve graduated to next level status, Luke. So thanks so much.

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Speaker 1: Oh, lucky me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, depends on how you look at it, but yes.

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Speaker 2: We’re excited to get into the nitty gritty. Let’s set

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Speaker 2: the stage for our audience because you have had a

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Speaker 2: very interesting career. Before you joined Kimberly-Clark, you were in

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Speaker 2: a very senior position at Walgreens. That’s true. But that

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Speaker 2: was after many years in CPG, including Stinson, the artist

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Speaker 2: formerly known as J & J Consumer, and many others.

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Speaker 2: So you’ve done CPG, you’ve flipped to the customer side,

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Speaker 2: and now you are back at the supplier brand side.

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Speaker 1: Now you’ve seen it all.

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Speaker 2: Now that you’ve seen it, what made you come back?

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Speaker 2: And what do you think are the key learnings that

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Speaker 2: have changed since you’ve been back on this side?

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Speaker 1: Perhaps relevant to the general theme of your podcast, I

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Speaker 1: would argue the biggest thing, which is also in part

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Speaker 1: why I am here, is that in the industry we’re seeing,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously people talk about digital disruption, but what

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Speaker 1: we’re actually experiencing in real time is the complete overhaul

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Speaker 1: of legacy constructs in our industry. And so broad strokes,

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Speaker 1: the industry talks about it as retail media or retail

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Speaker 1: marketing or commerce marketing or connected commerce, however it is described.

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Speaker 1: But what it signifies is a convergence of what had

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Speaker 1: been legacy in the industry distinct functions. And quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: that disruption across the entirety of the industry is arguably

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Speaker 1: the biggest thing. I mean, there’s other things, of course,

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Speaker 1: but like arguably the biggest. And it’s also one of

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Speaker 1: the most exciting things that you could do because it’s

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Speaker 1: truly transformational, albeit obviously these are very, very hard things.

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Speaker 2: So now that you’re back, albeit at a different organization,

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Speaker 2: what are the big unlocks that you’re like, oh man,

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Speaker 2: now that I’ve seen it on the other side, I’ve

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Speaker 2: thought about organizational constructs. I’ve thought about how to be

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Speaker 2: a better partner. What have you learned as a result

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Speaker 2: of having seen both sides of the negotiating equation? It’s

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Speaker 2: almost like if you went like agency side and then

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Speaker 2: came back, but you didn’t go that far.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, like careers are long.

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Speaker 3: God forbid.

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Speaker 1: I have a ton of heart for the agency world

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Speaker 1: and I had great experiences in the agencies that I

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Speaker 1: worked in. So a lot of love all around. What

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Speaker 1: did I learn? A ton of things. I could boil

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Speaker 1: it down to first and foremost in the CPG business model.

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Speaker 1: And this is not unique to CPG, but it’s generally

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Speaker 1: talked about in the CPG business model where The majority

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Speaker 1: of your business, even if you have some direct-to-consumer business,

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Speaker 1: still the majority of your actual business is going to

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Speaker 1: be done through a third party. And so that dynamic

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Speaker 1: still exists in a meaningful way and will continue to

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Speaker 1: exist where you’ve got a customer. And the relationship with

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Speaker 1: that customer is massively, massively important. What was very fascinating

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Speaker 1: and eye-opening to me in sitting on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the table, first of all, it’s just amazing to

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Speaker 1: be able to sit back and see, like, the best

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Speaker 1: that all of the organizations have to offer, that are

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Speaker 1: household name companies that sell in your box or through

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Speaker 1: your digital channels. So that was actually quite inspirational, to

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Speaker 1: be honest, and also very eye-opening. But really, the conversations,

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Speaker 1: first of all, People just truly care about doing great

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Speaker 1: work in service of the people that they are desiring

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Speaker 1: to serve. So in a CPG context, you hear often,

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Speaker 1: and it’s right, you hear about like, we need to

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Speaker 1: think about our customer relationship and we need to think

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Speaker 1: about the needs of our customer. And that is totally right.

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Speaker 1: Then you think about what is the needs of the

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Speaker 1: customer and at the customer side, they are truly focused.

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Speaker 1: on delivering the needs of the consumers that they serve.

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Speaker 1: So in the end, it all comes back to the

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Speaker 1: idea of having a better understanding of consumers who are people.

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Speaker 1: These are just people, like all of us, like we

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Speaker 1: are consumers, people living their lives, shopping as they shop

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Speaker 1: in a way that obviously is quite different than maybe

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Speaker 1: was the case 20, 30 years ago, or even maybe

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Speaker 1: 10 years ago. But it comes down to delivering great

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Speaker 1: experiences to people. You transition that thinking into the marketing

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Speaker 1: construct and the idea that shopper marketing is born out

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Speaker 1: of this discipline of you need to reach the consumer

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Speaker 1: in a different way when they’re in shopping mode. Well,

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Speaker 1: that looks quite different in a world where we’re all

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Speaker 1: in shopping mode and we’re all in laid back consumer

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Speaker 1: mode and we’re all in leading at the same time.

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Speaker 1: All of that could happen in one 20 minute sitting

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Speaker 1: of you’re in front of the big screen in your

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Speaker 1: living room and you got your phone out and you’re

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Speaker 1: scrolling and you see something on Instagram, you want to

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Speaker 1: buy it, like boom, done. You just smushed the funnel

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Speaker 1: that used to be four steps. You just smushed it

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Speaker 1: into five minutes. And that’s a very different experience.

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Speaker 3: We might know a few things about that.

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Speaker 1: You’re right.

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Speaker 3: You talk about understanding the consumer and building for the consumer.

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Speaker 3: And I think everyone who’s probably listening to the show

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Speaker 3: is in agreement with that. But then there’s a real

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Speaker 3: reality of working at a company like Kimberly Clark or

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Speaker 3: a said competitor, a big CPG brand, and knowing how

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Speaker 3: hard it is to actually do that. Let’s talk about

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Speaker 3: just through the lens of media for a second. There’s

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Speaker 3: an entire ecosystem that exists for essentially above the line

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Speaker 3: budgets like national digital media. And then there’s an entire

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Speaker 3: ecosystem that exists for below the line budgets like retail media, search.

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Speaker 3: A consumer doesn’t care where the budgets are, right? They

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Speaker 3: want to see a unified experience for Kimberly-Clark. And so

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Speaker 3: how do you go about ensuring that a consumer can

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Speaker 3: have that unified experience when often the media ecosystem is

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Speaker 3: separate for the long history that we all know has

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Speaker 3: come to be?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So two things on that. Number one is it

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Speaker 1: is difficult. I mean, this is not where an industry

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Speaker 1: and transformation is. It was easy. Anybody would do it

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Speaker 1: kind of thing like these are hard things. So that’s

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Speaker 1: a reality. I think two things. Number one, I think

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Speaker 1: the future and success for organizations is from today and

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Speaker 1: call it in the next like three to five year horizon,

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Speaker 1: let’s just like pick a fairly nearing window is really

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Speaker 1: about collaboration and the path to who’s going to get

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Speaker 1: there fastest in this race of what transformation looks like

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Speaker 1: in the industry. I think decisive decision-making, but also I

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Speaker 1: think collaboration and openness and willingness is a big part

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Speaker 1: of it. That’s one area. I think another area that

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Speaker 1: you hit on is it’s easy to say we should

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Speaker 1: be consumer centric. This is not from the lens of

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Speaker 1: my current job. In my former job, I was asked

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Speaker 1: by a number of our clients at that time to come.

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Speaker 1: So other CPGs, not my current company, but come and

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Speaker 1: talk to us about how you’re seeing companies organized and

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Speaker 1: what you think good looks like. And I would tell them, look,

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Speaker 1: heard in every boardroom around the country is like, we

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Speaker 1: need to be more consumer centric. And then you’ve got

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Speaker 1: that slide of the consumer in the center and then

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Speaker 1: all the bubbles around so that you can surround the

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Speaker 1: consumer with integrated experience. And then what happens? You leave

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Speaker 1: that boardroom. And people go into their functions and you

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Speaker 1: create independent strategies based on a function, which is the

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Speaker 1: complete antithesis of designing for the consumer at the center.

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Speaker 1: So it’s easy to say hard to do. And I

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Speaker 1: would talk about it as I do think while it

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Speaker 1: is difficult, the goal should be, we’re not talking about

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Speaker 1: retail marketing or shopper marketing or even retail media. Like

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Speaker 1: the term retail media to me is problematic. Because the

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Speaker 1: consumer doesn’t distinguish between the two things. And so the

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Speaker 1: faster that the industry can understand that what we’re talking

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Speaker 1: about is not shopper marketing or real estate marketing and

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Speaker 1: then brand marketing or national marketing. It’s like consumer marketing

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Speaker 1: or better said, marketing to consumers and delivering a great

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Speaker 1: brand experience or a great experience of the brand to

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Speaker 1: the people, the consumers that we are serving. And I

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Speaker 1: do think that that is… part of the inflection point.

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Speaker 1: How do you get there? Collaboration and people that speak

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Speaker 1: different languages. And I don’t mean literally speak different languages.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that helps too. But people who’ve understood and

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Speaker 1: been in different seats and can see the world how

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Speaker 1: those people see it to help with collaboration. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, collective understanding and elevating the acumen of entire organization.

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Speaker 1: I think those things will become massively, massively important in

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Speaker 1: the next, like what I say, three to five years.

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Speaker 2: I would say three to five months.

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Speaker 1: For sure.

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Speaker 2: When we’re talking about having the same language, I mean,

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Speaker 2: we always say words matter, but then sometimes we talk

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Speaker 2: about things and I think your point on the consumer

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Speaker 2: not making a distinction is absolutely right. And yet here

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Speaker 2: we are with the fiefdoms, as they said, who controls

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Speaker 2: those budgets? Where do they go? How do you squash

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Speaker 2: the funnel like you’re talking about? How do you create

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Speaker 2: within KCNA that common language such that you’re not talking

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Speaker 2: past each other within the organization because you’re sitting in

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Speaker 2: a really senior role, Luke, right? You’ve got a lot

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Speaker 2: of accountability across sales, marketing, Omni for whatever the hell

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Speaker 2: that means. How do you create that common language so

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Speaker 2: that we’re not talking.

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Speaker 1: Past each other? That to me also goes back to partnership.

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Speaker 1: It goes back to collaboration, to galvanizing an organization for

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Speaker 1: my part, you know, need to walk the walk on

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Speaker 1: it and not just talk about it, but galvanizing an

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Speaker 1: organization around what great looks like and where is the

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Speaker 1: industry going and then how do we actually walk our

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Speaker 1: way towards that? And to the extent that you can

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Speaker 1: address and make it easier through things like process, through

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Speaker 1: things like ways of working, like you’re not going to

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Speaker 1: solve and you’re not going to transform through process. However,

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Speaker 1: if process can be an enabler to getting to the

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Speaker 1: right conversation with the right people in the room to

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Speaker 1: do it, to help bring things closer together. Because that’s,

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Speaker 1: I mean, literally, if you boil it all down, what’s

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Speaker 1: happening is disciplines are smooshing. Marketing, media, technology, content, commerce, social,

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Speaker 1: like what is social? What is not? What is commerce?

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Speaker 1: What is not? And then insert all the buzzwords. All

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Speaker 1: of those things are smooshing together into one. And so

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Speaker 1: to the extent that you can find a way, again,

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Speaker 1: process doesn’t solve it, but to the extent you can

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Speaker 1: leverage things like that to get the right conversations to

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Speaker 1: happen with the right people, you can actually start to

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Speaker 1: bring things closer together. And then I really do think

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Speaker 1: language matters and the words people use matters. And to

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Speaker 1: the extent that you can, again, walk the walk on,

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Speaker 1: we are here in service of consumers. We are here

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Speaker 1: in service of people. How do we stay meaningful and

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Speaker 1: relevant to them? How do we deliver a great and

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Speaker 1: meaningful experience of our brands to those people? And the

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Speaker 1: more you can stay true to that, because again, those

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Speaker 1: people don’t distinguish between what is a retail media experience

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Speaker 1: or what is a brand or national media experience. These

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Speaker 1: are just people who live in their lives and the

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Speaker 1: shopping mindset. And again, the lean in or lean back mindset,

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Speaker 1: all of that can happen in 15 minutes span. And

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Speaker 1: so the more you can live into those things and

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Speaker 1: actually get collaboration from the right people with the right

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Speaker 1: depth of expertise, which is the other part of it,

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Speaker 1: is you need expertise in different disciplines to come to

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Speaker 1: the table to solve these things collectively.

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Speaker 3: In the spirit of smushing, one of the big smushes

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Speaker 3: is obviously the rise of retail media and retailers being

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Speaker 3: in this unique position to to play both sides of

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Speaker 3: the table and hopefully have a great partnership with a

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Speaker 3: brand manufacturer. But often brand manufacturers feel like their backs

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Speaker 3: are against the wall, given the dynamics with their retail partners.

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Speaker 3: We’re recording this episode on a day where BuzzFeed’s earnings

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Speaker 3: just came out. And BuzzFeed, you know, if we were

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Speaker 3: here 10 years ago, we would have been talking about

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Speaker 3: how BuzzFeed was the future of media. And now that

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Speaker 3: company is publicly crashing, you know, with every single earnings call.

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Speaker 3: Based on where you sit and all of your expertise

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Speaker 3: over the years, we’re obviously in the gold rush of

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Speaker 3: retail media. If we’re to fast forward this movie five

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Speaker 3: years from now, do you think every retail media network

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Speaker 3: that exists today will still be around tomorrow? Like, where

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Speaker 3: do you think this whole thing is heading?

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Speaker 1: I certainly do not presume or pretend to have any

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Speaker 1: kind of crystal ball about this industry, but I can

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Speaker 1: have what I believe to be a fairly informed perspective

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Speaker 1: and point of view. Back to what I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: I think the industry calls it retail media. And what

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Speaker 1: I actually think is happening is it’s a representation of

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Speaker 1: a changing dynamic in the role of any organization. And

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Speaker 1: it tends to be retailers, hence the concept. But in reality,

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Speaker 1: any organization or any company that has a deep connection

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Speaker 1: with consumers at scale, the role that that plays in

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Speaker 1: our industry is redefining what happens in the industry. And

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Speaker 1: where do I think this goes? I think in a

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Speaker 1: world of it’s about dollars, but it’s also about time

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Speaker 1: and headspace. If you look back, it was all the

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Speaker 1: broadcast networks and then the print publishing companies, the legacy

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Speaker 1: publishing companies that dominated most of the time in the headspace.

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Speaker 1: And then it was Google and Facebook slash meta. Now

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Speaker 1: you could probably put Amazon maybe in that too. I

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Speaker 1: think in macro… where people spend their time and how

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Speaker 1: they spend their time is going to evolve quite dramatically.

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Speaker 1: It won’t look like 80% of the time is with

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Speaker 1: these three or four companies and then you’re just like

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Speaker 1: spreading out the rest over because having the direct access

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Speaker 1: to consumer relationships, and again, it’s not about retail media.

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Speaker 1: It’s about partnership and collaboration in getting to a better

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Speaker 1: consumer understanding. And that could be with a transportation organization.

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Speaker 1: It could be with a travel organization. It could be

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Speaker 1: with a hospitality organization, or it could be with a retailer.

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Speaker 1: And having those things work in concert to better understand

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Speaker 1: the consumer so that you can deliver, again, a more

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Speaker 1: meaningful and relevant experience to those consumers. I think that’s

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Speaker 1: where this goes and it impacts. It’s not just about understanding, right?

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Speaker 1: It’s about understanding. It’s about audience development. It’s about execution, activation.

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Speaker 1: optimization and then and then actually measurement as well so

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Speaker 1: all of those things are sort of anchored into how

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Speaker 1: deep can you get in understanding the consumer experience and

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Speaker 1: then and then you layer in the like without going

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Speaker 1: on tangent on it but the notion of identity relative

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Speaker 1: to you know the cookie foundation of what the industry

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Speaker 1: was built on so i actually think we’re still at

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Speaker 1: the early stages of what’s going to be a pretty

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Speaker 1: seismic shift in the industry in totality.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were going to go start an entirely

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Speaker 2: new episode once you started talking about cookies.

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Speaker 1: I’m like, we’ll have you back around too, dude.

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Speaker 2: But you might have already started answering my next question,

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Speaker 2: which is our second to last question. We were talking

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Speaker 2: about life three to five years from now. We talked

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Speaker 2: about language. What do you think is the, I was

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Speaker 2: going to say top three, but in the interest of time,

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Speaker 2: top trend of how consumers behave differently in the relationship

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Speaker 2: between CPG and commerce?

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Speaker 1: It’s a great question. And I’m actually going to do

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Speaker 1: something I don’t normally do, which I’m going to answer

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Speaker 1: it based on a personal experience, which I don’t ordinarily

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Speaker 1: like to do, but this is maybe the most succinct

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Speaker 1: way I can address it.

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Speaker 2: Make it real, babe.

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Speaker 1: Make it real. I like to buy sneakers and I

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Speaker 1: was watching something as I typically do at night. So

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Speaker 1: I was sitting there in the living room. I got

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Speaker 1: the big screen in the living room is up and

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Speaker 1: scrolling as you do, as you do, as you do.

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Speaker 1: And like, boom, There it was in my feed on

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Speaker 1: the Insta. There it was. And within 30 seconds, I

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Speaker 1: had probably overspent on a new pair of shoes. And

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Speaker 1: I couldn’t tell you. I hadn’t done research on the manufacturer.

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Speaker 1: I saw it. It was there. And I bought it.

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Speaker 1: I use that as an example of what was a

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Speaker 1: linear purchase funnel. Again, we talk about it. And you

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Speaker 1: see slides. It’s like, it’s not linear anymore. Arguably, smushed. Gone.

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Speaker 1: Because from lean back experience in media to I made

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Speaker 1: a decision to buy something happened within a 10 second

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Speaker 1: span without a lot of knowledge. So awareness, you need

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Speaker 1: to have big awareness advertising and then you need to

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Speaker 1: move them through the funnel of consideration and then research

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Speaker 1: and then you drive them to conversion and then you

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Speaker 1: seek their loyalty. It’s inverted because your relationship with the

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Speaker 1: brand starts with discovery, that discovery happened on Instagram. And

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Speaker 1: then the relationship with the brand will start when I

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Speaker 1: get it. And it’s, was it a good experience? Did

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Speaker 1: it meet my expectations? And do I like the product ultimately?

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Speaker 1: And then am I motivated enough to go write a rating,

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Speaker 1: to rate it and write a review, which in essence

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Speaker 1: is called the modern day version of brand equity. Like

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Speaker 1: that’s what’s happening. And so that’s my personal anecdotal example.

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Speaker 1: But I think that trend is, We’ll continue back to

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Speaker 1: the idea of all these things are smooshing. What is social?

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Speaker 1: What is commerce? What is media? It’s all one thing

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Speaker 1: that’s coming together.

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Speaker 3: Love that you’re speaking the playbook in complete agreement that

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Speaker 3: social has caused us to reevaluate the marketing funnel and

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Speaker 3: it starts product consideration first and brand building happens after

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Speaker 3: the initial purchase. We got to ask you our famous

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Speaker 3: last question, which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: I mean, stereotypical, I jumped out of an airplane once,

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Speaker 1: which I’m really glad I did and would never do again.

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Speaker 1: I’ll give you like a real world example and I’ll

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Speaker 1: try to do it in 30 seconds. It was a

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Speaker 1: real experience that I think I could talk about because

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Speaker 1: it happened in the marketplace. But in sort of peak

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Speaker 1: pandemic time, we felt like there was a big, big

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Speaker 1: need to evolve the organization. I was at Walgreens at

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Speaker 1: the time, evolve the organization digitally. And we set out

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Speaker 1: with an ambition to stop publishing the printed circular. And

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Speaker 1: as a retailer, you can imagine the depth of fundamental

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Speaker 1: being that was tied to what was just a cornerstone

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Speaker 1: of the retail industry is print that circular and have

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Speaker 1: it in every newspaper on Sundays. I mean, just generations

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Speaker 1: of generations of people that just understood how the organization

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Speaker 1: moved as a result of that and I did have

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Speaker 1: a partner inside the merchandising organization, and it wasn’t just

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Speaker 1: the two of us. We also had a lot of

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Speaker 1: support from a lot of people and a lot of

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Speaker 1: data to back it up. But to stop doing something

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Speaker 1: that almost the entire company was angry about, people had

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Speaker 1: to do their jobs because of that, was not wildly popular.

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Speaker 1: And I would say multiple times, I was fairly certain

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Speaker 1: we were going to get fired. And then ultimately, we

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Speaker 1: obviously did not get fired. And we also stopped printing

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Speaker 1: a circular and the company did not go under. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, we soon had data that showed that it

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Speaker 1: was a much more effective deployment of resources and a

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Speaker 1: way to talk to consumers by essentially transitioning that model

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Speaker 1: towards the digital space. So a little bit longer than

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Speaker 1: 30 seconds, but that one, there was more than a

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Speaker 1: few moments where it felt like it was about to

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Speaker 1: go totally sideways and literally impacted just about every element

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Speaker 1: of the company. So it was not a marketing thing.

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00:24:43,160 –> 00:24:45,700
Speaker 1: It was like an everybody thing. And we needed to

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Speaker 1: actually like bring it along and make it happen. And

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Speaker 1: we did.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it goes back to what you said before,

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Speaker 3: which was decisive decision making and collaboration came to life

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Speaker 3: in that case study.

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Speaker 1: Very true.

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Speaker 3: Luke, we’re super appreciative for your time. We know that

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Speaker 3: Casey is making moves in the ecosystem and everyone give

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Speaker 3: Luke a follow on LinkedIn to see what’s happening.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 4: Awesome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you think about everything that Luke just went through,

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Speaker 3: it’s a lot about change management and being ahead of

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Speaker 3: where the industry is and also meeting it where it is.

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Speaker 3: If you want to hear other perspectives on change management,

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00:25:26,190 –> 00:25:28,510
Speaker 3: go check out a recent episode we did from Boss

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00:25:28,530 –> 00:25:31,950
Speaker 3: from Santa Fe to get a global perspective, or go

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Speaker 3: all the way back pretty much to summer of 2023,

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00:25:34,730 –> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 3: where we interview Chris from Dell and their change management

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00:25:40,400 –> 00:25:44,070
Speaker 3: around transformation. If you like what you hear, give us

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00:25:44,210 –> 00:25:48,450
Speaker 3: a review. Tell a friend. Post on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 4: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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Speaker 4: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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00:26:13,060 –> 00:26:16,500
Speaker 4: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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00:26:16,540 –> 00:26:20,219
Speaker 4: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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Speaker 4: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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00:26:22,640 –> 00:26:25,770
Speaker 4: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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00:26:25,970 –> 00:26:29,230
Speaker 4: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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00:26:29,270 –> 00:26:32,139
Speaker 4: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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00:26:32,160 –> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 4: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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00:26:34,680 –> 00:26:38,230
Speaker 4: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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00:26:38,410 –> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 4: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.