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Speaker 1: Where I think in the U.S. we can really keep improving,

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Speaker 1: I worked in different geographies and before coming to the U.S.

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Speaker 1: I was in Asia. And the type of in-store environment,

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Speaker 1: whether it’s, you know, physical shelf or digital shelf that

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Speaker 1: you can find in Asia… is more immersive. So you

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Speaker 1: have an experience that is very different for beauty than

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Speaker 1: it is for food or for other categories, right? I

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Speaker 1: think in the US, there is still an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: treat beauty very differently from the rest of the categories

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Speaker 1: and create that immersive environment.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: I’m Rachel Tippegraph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstetter, president of Profitero.

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Speaker 3: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 3: in e-commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah, do you

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Speaker 3: ever feel like there’s a calm moment in your business?

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Speaker 2: So I’ll tell you a story that I was not

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Speaker 2: going to say on the podcast, but now I have

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Speaker 2: to tell you a story. So I wasn’t feeling so

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Speaker 2: great last week and I went to the doctor and

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Speaker 2: he’s like, yeah, you don’t look so hot. I can

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Speaker 2: test you for a whole bunch of things, but I’m

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Speaker 2: guessing it’s stress. I’m like, why are you guessing it’s stress?

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Speaker 2: He’s like, I know you. So he takes my bloods

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Speaker 2: and it turns out my bloods are great except for

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Speaker 2: this one thing. And he leaves me a voicemail yesterday saying,

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Speaker 2: your bloods look great except for this one thing, you’re

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Speaker 2: really high in cortisol. And that is the hormone for stress.

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Speaker 2: So if you could come back during a time where

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Speaker 2: that you’re not stressed, we’ll run the bloods again and

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Speaker 2: see what happens when you’re not stressed. I have played

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Speaker 2: this voicemail for my husband.

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Speaker 1: And he just can’t stop laughing.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, the answer is yes. Rachel, do you

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Speaker 2: have your calm moments?

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Speaker 3: No, I’m working on it. I’m really working on it

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Speaker 3: because like you, I’m sure if I got blood work

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Speaker 3: right now, my cortisol levels would be not in a

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Speaker 3: great place. I have a lot of envy for people

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Speaker 3: who can have such composure and calmness. no matter what’s

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Speaker 3: happening in their life. And honestly, like that’s my North star.

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Speaker 3: It’s what I’m trying to work towards every day. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don’t think it was that far away from the

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Speaker 2: time I had done yoga. Like I had done yoga,

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Speaker 2: maybe even that same day.

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Speaker 1: I’m trying.

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Speaker 3: Like I got a massage. I got my nails done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then I went, I got my floods done.

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Speaker 2: But I think some of it is a matter of

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out what gets thrown at you and

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Speaker 2: then how you react to it and you cannot control

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Speaker 2: what gets thrown at you that much. I absolutely understand

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Speaker 2: because I also believe that if I wasn’t working, I

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Speaker 2: would find other things to stress about.

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Speaker 1: That’s just kind of, unfortunately my nature.

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Speaker 2: So I may as well stress about things that, you know,

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Speaker 2: have some impact in different ways, but it is about

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Speaker 2: how you react.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I look at all these global business leaders,

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Speaker 3: some of them who’ve had tremendous careers operating in different

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Speaker 3: markets against different market headwinds. And when we meet them

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Speaker 3: often on this show, they just seem so calm, cool,

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Speaker 3: and collected. And I have to believe that they’ve done

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Speaker 3: a lot of work on themselves as well to get

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Speaker 3: to a place where no matter what’s thrown at them,

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Speaker 3: they can continue to lead large groups of people through

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Speaker 3: the storm.

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Speaker 2: It does take a high degree of muscle memory of

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Speaker 2: learning how to do that. And also, you know, a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a see it, be it. A little

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Speaker 2: bit of imposter syndrome. That little cocktail. I guess most

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Speaker 2: people don’t come on the show and talk about their

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Speaker 2: blood results.

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Speaker 1: Go figure.

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Speaker 3: They don’t. But we’re about to bring a really amazing

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Speaker 3: leader onto the show. She is currently L’Oreal’s president of

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Speaker 3: North America Consumer Products, which is a huge division. And

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Speaker 3: she’s had an incredible career working in Europe as well

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Speaker 3: as Asia. And you’re going to hear from her on

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Speaker 3: how she weathers the storm no matter how turbulent it

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Speaker 3: may be. So on that note, let’s bring Natalie onto

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Speaker 3: the show. We are very excited to welcome Natalie Justin,

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Speaker 3: the president of L’Oreal Consumer Products in North America. Hello, Natalie.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I’m so happy to be here today. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. And so you’re hailing right now from New York City.

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Speaker 3: The three of us are right now spread out all

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Speaker 3: across New York. But you didn’t start your career at

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Speaker 3: L’Oreal in New York, if I’m right. You started in France, correct?

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Looking at your LinkedIn, it looks like you’ve been with

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Speaker 3: L’Oreal for quite some time, which is honestly a trend.

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Speaker 3: So L’Oreal must be doing something right if they can

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Speaker 3: retain great talent for nearly 20 years. The industry has

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Speaker 3: significantly changed over the last 20 years. So has the workplace.

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Speaker 3: When you look back at starting your career in France

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Speaker 3: at L’Oreal’s headquarters to now leading the North America business

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Speaker 3: out of the New York office, what are some of

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Speaker 3: the biggest lessons you’ve had over the last two decades?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think L’Oreal is, as you’re saying, must be

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Speaker 1: doing something good to keep their people so long because

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Speaker 1: it’s been a while now. I think what they do

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Speaker 1: is they give us really opportunities to grow. So I

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Speaker 1: believe a lot in growth, in learning, in being challenged,

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Speaker 1: in getting the opportunity to grow. get yourself out of

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Speaker 1: the comfort zone. And I think that’s really the way

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Speaker 1: to move forward. So I’ve had the chance to start

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Speaker 1: my career in France. But then, you know, after nine

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Speaker 1: years in France, I moved to India. I worked there

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Speaker 1: for three years. Then I worked in Thailand for five years.

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Speaker 1: And now I’ve been in the U.S. for six years. And,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you’re asking what are the leadership lessons

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Speaker 1: that I can tell you first that being a leader

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Speaker 1: is not easy, for sure. You know, expectations about the

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Speaker 1: leader really vary across cultures, especially if you have to

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Speaker 1: be more or less hands-on with your team. But what

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Speaker 1: I learned in the U.S. is really to lead with

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Speaker 1: empathy and to show vulnerability. And I think vulnerability is

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Speaker 1: really the biggest form of courage that a leader can

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Speaker 1: show to their teams. You know, it’s more about the

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Speaker 1: learn-it-all mentality versus the know-it-all mentality. So it’s about being

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Speaker 1: in the test and learn, fail fast, take risks. And

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Speaker 1: the leader should insufflate that spirit in their team. It’s

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Speaker 1: really important to enable everybody to innovate and really to

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Speaker 1: have a business that’s thriving. And I think… That’s really

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Speaker 1: the right mindset, whether the leader is a woman or

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Speaker 1: a man, by the way, which makes me think of

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Speaker 1: a TED talk by Reshma Sojani, who is the founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of Girls Who Code. And she was saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, we raise our girls to be perfect while

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Speaker 1: we raise our boys to be brave. And we really

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Speaker 1: have to shift that paradigm and make sure that all

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Speaker 1: the leaders of tomorrow are raised to be bold and

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Speaker 1: really to move forward and you know, and to impact

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Speaker 1: the world and to drive the change that is needed.

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Speaker 2: I think that’s fantastic on a whole bunch of levels.

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Speaker 2: Not lost on me, there are three women on this

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Speaker 2: call and the title of the podcast is called Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 2: So we are here to change that paradigm and you

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Speaker 2: being a part of this certainly helps. I love the

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Speaker 2: idea of inviting the boldness and expecting the bravery. as

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Speaker 2: well as leading with empathy. And leading with empathy is

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Speaker 2: not a sign of weakness, it’s actually a sign of connectivity.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Could you go a little bit more into that? I

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Speaker 2: don’t know that that’s necessarily a feminine thing per se,

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Speaker 2: but I think that there are certain elements from within

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Speaker 2: the feminine sides of all of us that could lean

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Speaker 2: in a little bit more on that whole empathy thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don’t know if it’s feminine per se, but

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Speaker 1: I think women can really help drive this within the organization.

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Speaker 1: Because I think women are more open to that empathy.

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Speaker 1: And also they are challenging people to listen more. And

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Speaker 1: I think it really starts with listening. Like if you listen,

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Speaker 1: then you can hear what other people feel. You can

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Speaker 1: take into account their reality. And that’s really where you

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Speaker 1: can lead better with your team. And you can also

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Speaker 1: create an environment of psychological safety where everybody can come

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Speaker 1: as their whole self at work. And they can really

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Speaker 1: voice their opinion in order to move the business forward.

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Speaker 1: And in order to make sure that there’s not only

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Speaker 1: one opinion that matters in the room, but there’s a

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Speaker 1: diversity of opinions that matter and can bring everybody forward.

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Speaker 2: It’s a great point. And kind of speaking to the

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Speaker 2: whole idea almost of trying to find those elements of empathy,

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Speaker 2: finding the psychological safety, even understanding how to bring women

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Speaker 2: up and encourage them perhaps to take up more space

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Speaker 2: within leadership. It’s a little bit of a challenger mentality

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Speaker 2: still today. I wish it weren’t the case, but we’re

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Speaker 2: still operating in a world of a challenger mentality. And

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Speaker 2: this is a very poor attempt by me to pivot

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Speaker 2: into the next question.

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Speaker 3: I was like, where are you taking this? Where is

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Speaker 3: she going with this?

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Speaker 2: She’s attempting to be smooth and still not working. So

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Speaker 2: within the space that you operate in and having had

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Speaker 2: two decades, multiple countries, super impressive. Your airline status must

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Speaker 2: be extraordinary. There are these headwinds like the rise of

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Speaker 2: skincare and cookie-less internet that is making it harder to

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Speaker 2: get those one-to-one interactions. Given you’ve spent so much of

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Speaker 2: your time at the leader brands within L’Oreal, how are

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Speaker 2: you thinking about what it takes to win with so

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Speaker 2: many challengers, in certain cases, ankle biters, trying to come

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Speaker 2: at you from different directions?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what it takes to win is really

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Speaker 1: to have your ears wide open. It’s the recipe for

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Speaker 1: success has always been the same somehow. Even if the

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Speaker 1: world is changing so much, it’s all about consumer centricity.

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Speaker 1: And we are very lucky because people love to talk

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Speaker 1: about beauty. You know, they talk about beauty online. They

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Speaker 1: talk about beauty with friends. They want to talk about

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Speaker 1: beauty with the brands, with us. So what we have

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Speaker 1: to do is really to listen and then to decode

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Speaker 1: their needs and what they want. And that’s kind of

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Speaker 1: the beauty of marketing is that you really, it’s this

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Speaker 1: ability to interpret signals and turn them into opportunities. And

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Speaker 1: it makes me think of a quote from Henry Ford

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Speaker 1: who said, you know, if I had asked people what

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Speaker 1: they wanted, they would have told me faster horses. Nobody

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Speaker 1: would have said I need a car because they didn’t

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Speaker 1: even know what it was, right? And so that’s really

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Speaker 1: our job. You know, our job is to understand that

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Speaker 1: people want speed, they want agility, and then from horses,

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Speaker 1: it’s to build a car. And I think it’s a

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Speaker 1: pretty cool job.

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Speaker 3: There’s something about L’Oreal’s deep understanding of that, but then

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Speaker 3: you’re able to organize people around speed and agility, unlike, honestly,

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Speaker 3: any other organization. You know, Micmac works across 1,200 brands, Profitero,

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Speaker 3: I think even a little bit more. And In 2015,

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Speaker 3: L’Oreal awarded me slash Micmac the Women in Digital Award.

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Speaker 3: And that’s how I got the business started. L’Oreal, what

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Speaker 3: do they seem to understand that other organizations don’t? Like,

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Speaker 3: how is L’Oreal successful at moving quickly and other big

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Speaker 3: corporations can’t move quickly?

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Speaker 1: I think it goes back to the beginning of our

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Speaker 1: discussion about failing fast, taking risk, measured risk, but still

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Speaker 1: risk testing and learning. And a lot of people don’t

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Speaker 1: know that, but actually L’Oreal was founded by a chemist.

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Speaker 1: And so a chemist, you know, I have friends who

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Speaker 1: do research and what they do is they fail all

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Speaker 1: the time. But for them, it’s not about failure is

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Speaker 1: they found so many ways to progress. It’s really about progress, right?

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Speaker 1: And that’s really one of the things that drove me

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Speaker 1: to L’Oreal in the first place. Like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: break the autopilot mindset. try again. It’s so amazing to

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Speaker 1: be able to just impact the world. So I think

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Speaker 1: that’s what really sets aside L’Oreal versus our competitors is

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Speaker 1: this ability to test and learn all the time, to

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Speaker 1: have that kind of entrepreneur spirit, but within the structure

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Speaker 1: of a bigger company.

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Speaker 3: You know, there’s this language that I’ve heard go around L’Oreal,

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Speaker 3: both internal and externally, which is personalization at scale. How

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Speaker 3: is that coming to life for you in the mass

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Speaker 3: market in North America?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think personalization at scale is more and more

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Speaker 1: important because people today, they don’t want to interact with

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Speaker 1: brand the same way as their neighbors or their friends.

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Speaker 1: Like they want to have that somehow personalized and intimate

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Speaker 1: relationship with the brand. And now with the tech and with,

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Speaker 1: you know, social media and with all our tools in

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Speaker 1: terms of personalization and diagnostic, we can go much further

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Speaker 1: and we can really have that one-on-one relationship with them

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Speaker 1: or one-to-many as well when you think about live streams. And,

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Speaker 1: you know, that really makes that relationship much more personal.

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Speaker 1: And it’s great because when you think of it, we

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Speaker 1: have so many different products that I think it’s important

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Speaker 1: they understand which one they have to pick for their

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Speaker 1: specific needs. So that’s really what we want to do today.

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Speaker 1: It’s not about beauty for all anymore, but it’s really

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Speaker 1: about beauty for each.

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Speaker 3: It’s an amazing focus and so hard to execute, especially

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Speaker 3: at scale, which is probably the tension of it. In

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Speaker 3: the mass market in North America, it’s a really interesting moment, right?

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Speaker 3: Because the pandemic slush fund is sort of going away

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Speaker 3: and consumers have low savings, high credit, yet we’re seeing

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Speaker 3: them spend on luxury. And then in the mass market,

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Speaker 3: there’s like really interesting behaviors. So to talk outside of beauty,

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Speaker 3: if you look at food, what we’re seeing is like

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Speaker 3: consumers are actually spending less on food. And then they’re

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Speaker 3: reallocating that to more discretionary spends like buying Nike sneakers

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Speaker 3: or Apple products. When you think about the future of

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Speaker 3: the mass market in North America, what’s your perspective on

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Speaker 3: the economy and how consumers are shopping?

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Speaker 1: I think they still want to pamper themselves. And that’s

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Speaker 1: why beauty has been so resilient, you know, since the

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Speaker 1: beginning of times. Like beauty is an industry that has

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Speaker 1: always existed and is always going to exist. Because if

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Speaker 1: you have a lot of money, you still want to

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Speaker 1: indulge yourself in beauty. And if you don’t have so

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Speaker 1: much money, well, buying that lipstick is probably less expensive

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Speaker 1: than buying a car or buying, you know, a trip.

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Speaker 1: So I think beauty is very resilient. To your point

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Speaker 1: about people wanting to also indulge themselves in different way,

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Speaker 1: you know, it makes me think about the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: It’s true that they want now to also engage more

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Speaker 1: and more with like entertainment. When you think of Taylor Swift,

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Speaker 1: you know, everybody is talking about her as a phenomenon

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Speaker 1: and impacting the entire world. American economy. And when you

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Speaker 1: think about the Super Bowl, I think it’s also a

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Speaker 1: great opportunity for beauty brands to move at the speed

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Speaker 1: of culture and to engage, you know, with the consumer

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Speaker 1: in a different way. That’s something we could talk about.

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Speaker 2: Let’s dive into that for just a sec, because on

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Speaker 2: the one hand, we’re dealing with all of this personalization

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Speaker 2: and how one person does not want to experience these

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Speaker 2: brands or get their beauty concierge almost of what’s going

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Speaker 2: to work right for them from something quite mass, not

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Speaker 2: in terms of mass consumer, but just a one-to-many message.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, there’s a criticality of being in

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Speaker 2: culture and being where your audience is. So on the

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Speaker 2: one hand, you’ve got this great approach to dynamic, creative,

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Speaker 2: and new ways of really hitting consumers in the ways

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Speaker 2: that will matter to them the most. And then on

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Speaker 2: the flip side, you just referenced the Super Bowl. You

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Speaker 2: do you balance all of that, the idea of reaching

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Speaker 2: 100 million people versus one-to-one?

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Speaker 1: I think we have to do both at the same time. Also,

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Speaker 1: depending on where the consumer is in their journey, they

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Speaker 1: don’t want the same thing. Sometimes they want to be wowed,

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Speaker 1: you know, by a brand. And sometimes they want that

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Speaker 1: intimacy of going through, you know, a skincare diagnosis and

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Speaker 1: understand what is the exact serum they should use and

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Speaker 1: the toner they should use and the moisturizer they should use.

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Speaker 1: So I think it’s really about the brand to understand

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Speaker 1: those critical moments when they can engage with the consumer

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Speaker 1: and really do it in a way that is very authentic.

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Speaker 1: So you were talking about the Super Bowl. The Super

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Speaker 1: Bowl this year, it’s true, it earned like 124 million

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Speaker 1: viewers and a lot of them were women. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: that’s why it’s changing the game about what brands and

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Speaker 1: stories people are expecting to see in the moment. So

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl for us typically was the perfect stage

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Speaker 1: for our NYX Professional Makeup brand because number one, it’s

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Speaker 1: really a loved brand, but it has pretty low awareness.

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Speaker 1: Like not everybody knows about NYX Professional Makeup. It is

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Speaker 1: the makeup brand of entertainment in terms of its positioning.

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Speaker 1: And so the best way to really increase awareness was

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Speaker 1: to use the biggest entertainment stage. So we had a

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Speaker 1: great collaboration with Cardi B, who loves the brand and

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Speaker 1: has used the brand for many, many years. And we

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Speaker 1: had the perfect product, which was that new plumping gloss.

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Speaker 1: for a humorous twist, you know, on the advertising. So

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Speaker 1: the stars were really aligned. And that’s how we’re able

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Speaker 1: to move at the speed of culture. But it has

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Speaker 1: to be authentic. It cannot be forced.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it’s amazing. And we’re obviously recording this episode off

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Speaker 3: the heels of the Final Four in women’s college basketball,

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Speaker 3: which was the most watched basketball game ever, whether it

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Speaker 3: was men or women. And so it’s so interesting how

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Speaker 3: sports is becoming culture that has no gender barrier. So

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Speaker 3: I imagine we’ll start to see L’Oreal show up in

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Speaker 3: other places, even beyond the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. And we just actually signed a partnership with Coco

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Speaker 1: Gauff with one of our brands called Carol’s Daughter, and

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Speaker 1: we are very excited to collaborate with Coco.

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Speaker 4: Awesome.

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Speaker 1: Love it.

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Speaker 3: I follow her on Instagram, so I’m sure I’ll start

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Speaker 3: to see all that.

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Speaker 1: Talk about being bold and brave.

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Speaker 3: It’s amazing. Yeah, I agree. So on the topic of media,

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Speaker 3: so here L’Oreal is investing in the Super Bowl. Another

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Speaker 3: key area that I imagine L’Oreal, especially in the mass

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Speaker 3: consumer products division, invests is with your retail partners. Retailers

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Speaker 3: are no longer just distributors. They’re also now a mass

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Speaker 3: advertising channel. And so I imagine the conversation is quite

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Speaker 3: complicated with your retail partners because you want different things

348
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Speaker 3: from them and they want different things from you. Given

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Speaker 3: your seat in the ecosystem, a lot of people who

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Speaker 3: listen to us also are brand manufacturers. What’s your perspective

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Speaker 3: right now on the best way to navigate your relationship

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Speaker 3: with retailers since they play so many roles in the

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Speaker 3: success of a brand’s future?

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Speaker 1: Actually, I see it as a great opportunity. It’s an

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Speaker 1: opportunity for us to elevate our partnership with them and

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Speaker 1: to be even more strategic and follow or even anticipate

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Speaker 1: the consumer’s journey and needs, whether in-store or online. So

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Speaker 1: the fact that they become even more aware and understand

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Speaker 1: even better their shoppers is really a way for our

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Speaker 1: partnership to be much stronger. So we can really collectively

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Speaker 1: improve the experience, where I think in the US we

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Speaker 1: can really keep improving. I worked in different geographies and

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Speaker 1: before coming to the US, I was in Asia. And

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Speaker 1: the type of in-store environment whether it’s, you know, physical

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Speaker 1: shelf or digital shelf that you can find in Asia

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Speaker 1: is more immersive. So you have an experience that is

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Speaker 1: very different for beauty than it is for food or

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Speaker 1: for other categories, right? I think in the US, there

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Speaker 1: is still an opportunity to treat beauty very differently. from

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Speaker 1: the rest of the categories and create that immersive environment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think many people would agree with you and

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Speaker 3: potentially the rise of TikTok shops will start to change

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Speaker 3: those things. We have to ask you our famous last question,

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Speaker 3: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So look, there is a quote that I love

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Speaker 1: and I keep referring to this quote, which is, Life

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Speaker 1: isn’t about avoiding the storm or waiting for the storm

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Speaker 1: to pass. It is about learning how to dance in

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Speaker 1: the rain. And I think basically the situation is the situation,

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Speaker 1: but the way you react to it is entirely your decision.

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Speaker 1: And so working across different geographies definitely, you know, built

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Speaker 1: my resilience. One of the reasons I joined L’Oreal is

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Speaker 1: because I wanted an international career. So, you know, after

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Speaker 1: nine years in France, I felt it was time. And

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Speaker 1: I took the leap to India and with a boyfriend

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Speaker 1: I had met only six months prior. And fast forward

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Speaker 1: 13 years later, it was one of the best experiences

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Speaker 1: in my career. And also personally, because he became my

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Speaker 1: husband and the father of my daughter. So it’s pretty

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Speaker 1: good to take a leap of faith when the time

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Speaker 1: is right. So we’ve got.

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Speaker 2: Dancing in the rain. With boldness and bravery.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Love that the love story worked out. It’s so true.

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Speaker 3: There’s so much emotional energy that’s wasted based on how

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Speaker 3: you react to a situation. So those words ring true

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Speaker 3: to me. Well, thank you so much for your time,

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Speaker 3: for your wisdom, for the outlook on the mass market.

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Speaker 3: I love the optimism, especially in beauty. And we’re always

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Speaker 3: watching L’Oreal, but I’m sure now even more people will

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Speaker 3: be too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Sarah.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Rachel.

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Speaker 3: If you enjoyed hearing from this incredible leader who happens

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00:22:04,270 –> 00:22:06,910
Speaker 3: to be a woman and you want to continue down

407
00:22:06,950 –> 00:22:13,050
Speaker 3: this journey of badass women navigating challenges, go check out

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00:22:13,130 –> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 3: a recent episode we did with Wendy Jean from Tyson’s

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00:22:16,880 –> 00:22:18,899
Speaker 3: or go all the way back to last summer in

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00:22:18,920 –> 00:22:22,940
Speaker 3: August and where we brought back Diana Hosling from Colgate.

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Speaker 3: Both of these women talk about bravery in business and

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00:22:26,240 –> 00:22:29,129
Speaker 3: in their personal lives. If you like what you heard,

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00:22:29,230 –> 00:22:32,310
Speaker 3: tell a friend, share on LinkedIn, write a review. Thanks

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00:22:32,350 –> 00:22:32,930
Speaker 3: for listening.

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Speaker 4: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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Speaker 4: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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Speaker 4: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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Speaker 4: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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Speaker 4: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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Speaker 4: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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Speaker 4: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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Speaker 4: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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Speaker 4: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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Speaker 4: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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Speaker 4: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.