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Speaker 1: I think if one great thing can come out of

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Speaker 1: this for the US, it will be this sort of

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Speaker 1: awareness around processed foods. And one thing, as someone who

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Speaker 1: uses a GLP-1 myself, one thing that is kind of

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Speaker 1: a surprising second order effect is that you do start

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Speaker 1: to have an aversion to processed food. And I don’t

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Speaker 1: know that they really designed it that way because if

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Speaker 1: you go back and listen to the podcast about how

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Speaker 1: Novo Nord has found GLP-1s, they didn’t realize that it

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Speaker 1: would have this impact.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 3: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

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Speaker 3: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah,

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Speaker 3: it’s so interesting to, I feel every professional and personal

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Speaker 3: conversation that I’ve participated in in like the last six months,

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Speaker 3: GLP-1s as well as menopause or perimenopause have come up.

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Speaker 3: What is going on in society right now?

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Speaker 2: Fascinating because you’re in the demo for neither of those things.

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Speaker 3: I don’t know. I might be a premature. Okay.

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Speaker 4: Certainly not the GLP-1.

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Speaker 2: And you definitely would be like, That’s like the equivalent

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Speaker 2: of getting the AARP emails when you’re 35. So like, whatever,

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Speaker 2: I’m not a doctor. But the fact that those are

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Speaker 2: two things that are becoming much more in the cultural conversation.

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Speaker 2: On the one hand, the conversations around GLP-1 have been

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Speaker 2: happening for a while, but people have not been vocally saying, yes,

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Speaker 2: I am. Like people say, oh, you look great. And

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Speaker 2: nobody says, oh yeah, I was a big baby. Like

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Speaker 2: they say, thank you. Whereas, that’s starting to change. People

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Speaker 2: are starting to be more comfortable sharing that it’s not

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Speaker 2: a trick or it’s not like you’ve left the country

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Speaker 2: for a month and you’ve got some crazy ass surgery.

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Speaker 2: Like it’s becoming much more part of the norm, especially

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Speaker 2: for people who have struggled in other ways to lose

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Speaker 2: weight or they’re dealing with other preexisting conditions. On the

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Speaker 2: menopause front, I’m with you. I went from being living

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Speaker 2: under a rock to being quite educated, on the topic

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Speaker 2: and I’m, you know, a little bit older and the

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Speaker 2: fact that it has become so much more pervasive in conversation,

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Speaker 2: not just among women, not just among women of a

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Speaker 2: certain age, but just in general, I think is a

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Speaker 2: massive representation of the fact that women, especially in the

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Speaker 2: perimenopausal and menopausal age have deep pockets and Now we’re

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Speaker 2: talking about catering to people who are either on GLP-1s

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Speaker 2: or people who are going through perimenopausal symptoms, which, by

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Speaker 2: the way, means a hell of a lot more than

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Speaker 2: hot flashes. There’s been so much conversation that we’ve had

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Speaker 2: here on this podcast about GLP-1s and how it’s impacting

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Speaker 2: food companies. In many cases, for the negative, you consume

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Speaker 2: fewer calories, therefore you will buy less food. But there’s

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Speaker 2: also been the reverse of it. the fashion business is booming.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it’s travel. Travel.

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Speaker 2: Beach travel is up and food travel is down. It’s just,

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Speaker 2: it’s fascinating how these macro changes and cultural norm acceptance

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Speaker 2: of it has changed all of the ways that businesses

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Speaker 2: choose to react or not react. It’s not like this

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Speaker 2: was like COVID where it just like hit, you know, overnight.

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Speaker 4: These have been slow burns.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think the question is how fast can companies react?

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Speaker 3: because it absolutely has accelerated. I think now one out

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Speaker 3: of five people is on a GLP-1, and that’s supposed

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Speaker 3: to get to a third, some reports that I’ve read.

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Speaker 3: And then the question is, will it hold? Like, will

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Speaker 3: people sustain the use of a GLP-1? And so I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of companies, both on the manufacturer and

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Speaker 3: the retailer side, are trying to navigate this. And who

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Speaker 3: better to speak to than someone who has deep retail

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Speaker 3: experience both as an operator and as a board member.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Mila really opened my eyes to a lot of

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Speaker 2: these kinds of things, which is why I’m so happy

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Speaker 2: that she agreed to be on the show. She was

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Speaker 2: recently running CDS. She’s now on the board of Ahold.

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Speaker 2: And if you look at the Cagney presentations from this

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Speaker 2: past year, there’s no question that protein is a hot,

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Speaker 2: hot topic, which addresses a lot of the conversations around

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Speaker 2: satiety and and hitting people that are on GLP-1s with

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Speaker 2: the kinds of nutritional balance that they need. And so

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Speaker 2: I think overall, it can’t be a bad thing for

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Speaker 2: our industry to be being more mindful about the ingredients

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Speaker 2: and the composition that goes into it. And I’m really

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Speaker 2: glad that Nila continues to have an outsized impact on

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Speaker 2: our industry for both raising awareness and making sure that

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Speaker 2: we’re here adapting to that.

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Speaker 3: So let’s bring her on to the show.

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Speaker 2: Today, we have quite the commerce executive expert with us today,

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Speaker 2: Nila Montgomery. She is currently on the board of directors

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Speaker 2: of Ahold Delhaize and Logitech, but formerly also the CEO

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Speaker 2: of Crate and Barrel at the helm of CBS and

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Speaker 2: many other companies and somebody that over the years I

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Speaker 2: have grown to consider a dear friend and confidant. And

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Speaker 2: she and I were having coffee a couple of months ago,

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Speaker 2: and I just wish people would be able to overhear

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Speaker 2: our conversation because it would have made a great podcast

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Speaker 2: episode in and of itself. So this is my attempt

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Speaker 2: to to recreate the best and the brightest and bring

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Speaker 2: in the wonderful voice of Rachel Typograph as well. So Neela,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. How can I live up to that intro?

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Speaker 4: It’s amazing. Thank you, Sarah.

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Speaker 2: It was funny. We actually had coffee and I don’t

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Speaker 2: think I ever ended up ordering the coffee. So I

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Speaker 2: was totally bumming space off a retailer, which is just

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Speaker 2: not cool. But anyway, putting that aside, the thing that

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Speaker 2: we talked about that got me, there were a few

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Speaker 2: things we talked about that were super intense. But one

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Speaker 2: of the things that we ended up talking about was

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Speaker 2: that intersection of health, food, and retail. Obviously, these are

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Speaker 2: topics that are very close to our hearts. And one

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Speaker 2: of those things that sits at the intersection of it

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Speaker 2: that people obviously are nonstop talking about, certainly in the States,

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Speaker 2: is GLP-1 adoption. It is growing faster than the public

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Speaker 2: conversation around it. And so why do you think the

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Speaker 2: usage is outpacing that cultural openness? And what do you

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Speaker 2: think is going to take for its change? Because people

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Speaker 2: talk about it. but they don’t talk about themselves as

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Speaker 2: users of it. It’s not like people don’t know what’s

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Speaker 2: out there, but the lack of willingness to talk about

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Speaker 2: their personal experiences using it, there’s something surprising about that.

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Speaker 2: Talk about it more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And I think just to sort of contextualize, one in

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Speaker 1: five American households has someone using a GLP-1. And obviously

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Speaker 1: now there are people using GLP-3s and other things, but

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Speaker 1: the reality is 46% of those started in the last

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Speaker 1: two months or six months, I think. So it’s a

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Speaker 1: high adoption, high velocity category. But the reality is there’s

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Speaker 1: still some sort of stigma around it, I believe, in

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Speaker 1: that initially there was a lot of press around this

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Speaker 1: was a Hollywood drug.

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Speaker 4: This was Kim Kardashian trying to get into her Met dress.

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Speaker 1: And that sort of overhang is still around in that, oh,

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Speaker 1: this must be vain people who don’t need to lose

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Speaker 1: weight using GLP-1s versus this is a really important tool

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Speaker 1: for managing a whole host of conditions, including obesity, which

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Speaker 1: is the number one killer in the US, by the way,

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Speaker 1: but also a very important tool for women in terms

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Speaker 1: of inflammation.

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Speaker 4: We now know there’s lots of cardio benefits, etc.

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Speaker 1: But I do think some of that kind of cultural

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Speaker 1: conversation has shaped the debate.

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Speaker 3: And so with this adoption, you’re at the helm of conversations,

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Speaker 3: I’m sure, in the boardroom at Ahold about what’s happening

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Speaker 3: with consumers. What do you think are the most misunderstood

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Speaker 3: things right now about consumer behaviors, given the backdrop of GLP-1?

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Speaker 1: There’s understanding that it changes your eating habits. And I

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Speaker 1: think for retailers like Arhold, which trades under banners like

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Speaker 1: Stop and Shop, Hannaford’s, et cetera, we understand that. People

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Speaker 1: are looking for more nutrition and more density, we call

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Speaker 1: it nutrition density, in the food that they eat because

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Speaker 1: they’re going to eat less food throughout the day. So

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Speaker 1: I think brands are starting to respond to that. There

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Speaker 1: was already this sort of protein craze going on on

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Speaker 1: the shelves.

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Speaker 4: Now there’s the fiber craze.

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Speaker 1: It will move on and we will have more and

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Speaker 1: more sort of fortification of foods. But I think the

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Speaker 1: more important question for retailers that sell fresh food like

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Speaker 1: ourselves is how do we get food nutrition back at

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Speaker 1: the center of the conversation? Because the reality is, healthy

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Speaker 1: eating habits are such a determinant of health anyway. And

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Speaker 1: this is a great opportunity to reset your habits, to

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Speaker 1: rethink how you go about meeting your daily nutritional needs.

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Speaker 3: And like tackling something like that, it’s pretty massive. Like

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Speaker 3: we think about just the US and the food pyramid

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Speaker 3: going all the way back to World War II.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Is that something that you do on your own as

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Speaker 3: an independent retailer? Or are you calling on other retailers

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Speaker 3: to do this together?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of discussion right now

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Speaker 1: about healthy eating in certain markets.

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Speaker 4: I would say the U.S. is maybe slightly different. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I’m from the UK.

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Speaker 1: Originally, I grew up in a retailer called Tesco. They’ve

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Speaker 1: been sort of distributing fresh fruit. I think almost all

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Speaker 1: grocers do that there for kids and others. And there

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Speaker 1: is just this real focus on five-a-day nutritional labeling and

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Speaker 1: And I do think some of that is coming and

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Speaker 1: going to be more at the forefront in the US.

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Speaker 1: But to your point, are we working together? Yes, starting to,

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Speaker 1: but probably not with the momentum that we need to

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Speaker 1: get a shift like this over time.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that’s been really fascinating to me

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Speaker 2: is how slow companies have been reacting to the way

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Speaker 2: consumers are changing their behaviours. related to, and particularly related

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Speaker 2: to GLP-1s. There were a few companies in the food

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Speaker 2: space in particular that came out with differently sized frozen meals.

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Speaker 2: There were a couple of attempts, and those just flopped extraordinarily.

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Speaker 2: And then you started hearing other stories from fashion companies saying,

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Speaker 2: this has been great because people are dropping weight. And

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Speaker 2: so they’re buying jeans in three different sizes for when

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Speaker 2: they get into these different sizes. And so the impact

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Speaker 2: on the economy has been very interesting. But when it

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Speaker 2: comes to food manufacturers, it does seem to be a

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Speaker 2: little slower. Why do you think that is? These are

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Speaker 2: companies that have been so quick to respond to other

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Speaker 2: trends in the past. Why do you think it’s going

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Speaker 2: slower or that they’re treating it almost as niche? Is

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Speaker 2: it because of a lack of people willing to say

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Speaker 2: that they’re doing it, even though the data says they

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Speaker 2: are doing it? Like, what’s the story here? What’s like

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Speaker 2: the real deal?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I can only hypothesize on that one,

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Speaker 1: but I think that there’s two things.

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Speaker 4: One is, I mean, innovation.

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Speaker 1: Cycles are slower in some of these industries. And I

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Speaker 1: do think that initially, adherence was pretty poor. So people

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Speaker 1: would go on a GLP-1 and 25% stopped within days.

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Speaker 1: three months and 66% stopped within six months. So people

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Speaker 1: are cycling on and off these drugs. So I think

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Speaker 1: it was like, is this a trend that’s going to

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Speaker 1: stick and really fundamentally change how people eat?

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Speaker 4: So there was a little bit of, I think, the

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Speaker 4: wait and see.

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Speaker 1: And the price, I mean, you know, the majority of

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Speaker 1: these drugs are being paid for out of pocket. And

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Speaker 1: That is significant. I mean, you know, the sticker price

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Speaker 1: is still $ 999. It’s now $ 449, but the reality is

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Speaker 1: it just felt like, okay, this is going to stay

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Speaker 1: a niche thing just because it’s a luxury item at

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Speaker 1: that price point. I think what has surprised people and

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Speaker 1: especially now with like compounding options, the pill format, all

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Speaker 1: of these other things.

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Speaker 4: How quickly it’s become mainstream.

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Speaker 1: And therefore I think that slightly caught people flat footed around, oh,

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Speaker 1: actually we do need to think about this. And to

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Speaker 1: your other point, those other industries that we didn’t expect

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Speaker 1: like fashion, beauty, I mean, there’s huge focus now on

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Speaker 1: cheek fillers and like filling up back your face and

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Speaker 1: all of those products that nobody expected to have huge uplifts.

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Speaker 1: I think we’re seeing the secondary and people are like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: we really need to take this seriously up front in

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Speaker 1: product development.

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Speaker 3: The travel industry reported that beach vacations have gone way

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Speaker 3: up because of GLP-1 and cities that were these hubs

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Speaker 3: to attract you for eating have gone way down.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it is amazing to see the rippling effect. We

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Speaker 3: obviously live in the US, Sarah and I, though we

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Speaker 3: work globally. And are you seeing this hold region to region?

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Speaker 3: Where’s the greatest sort of consumer adoption of GLP-1 right now?

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Speaker 1: That’s undoubtedly the US, but the US obviously has higher

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Speaker 1: rates of obesity anyway, so you would expect that. I

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Speaker 1: do think like I can speak well to sort of

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Speaker 1: Holland or the Netherlands because that’s where Arvold’s very strong.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there has always.

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Speaker 1: Been a big focus on healthy eating there, but also

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Speaker 1: on less processed foods. I think if one great thing

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Speaker 1: can come out of this for the US, it will

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Speaker 1: be this sort of awareness around processed foods. And one

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Speaker 1: thing as someone who uses a GLP-1 myself, one thing

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Speaker 1: that is kind of a surprising second order effect is

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Speaker 1: that you do start to have an aversion to processed food.

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Speaker 1: And I don’t know that they really designed it that

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Speaker 1: way because if you go back and listen to the

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Speaker 1: podcast about how Novo Nordisk found GLP-1s, they didn’t realize

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Speaker 1: that it would have this impact because it’s a hormone.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that’s been super interesting. And so

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Speaker 1: I do think that will fundamentally maybe change how Americans

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Speaker 1: think about mac and cheese and other products that they

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Speaker 1: are used to coming out of a box. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So here you are, and you’re sitting in your board position.

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Speaker 3: If you were putting on your day-to-day operator hat, which

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who listen to our show are

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Speaker 3: working at these big CPG companies that have been in

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Speaker 3: the business of producing processed foods, what would you do

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Speaker 3: right now if you were them?

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Speaker 1: I would really start thinking about formulation. I would think

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Speaker 1: about communication of benefit and nutritional values for And I

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Speaker 1: would really think about, am I on trend? Because I

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Speaker 1: think obviously one thing that’s great about GLP-1s is it

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Speaker 1: doesn’t kill people’s interest in food. It just means they

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Speaker 1: consume less. So they’re more discerning about what they do consume.

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Speaker 1: And I think for women in particular, there’s now a

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Speaker 1: very clear link between hormonal health and GLP-1s. So women

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Speaker 1: who are going through HRT or other types of treatment,

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Speaker 1: really benefit from the inflammation benefits of GLP-1.

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Speaker 4: So I think thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Inflammation in the broader sense, chronic conditions, and then how

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Speaker 1: does my product play to that?

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Speaker 4: Does it improve it?

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Speaker 1: If not, how do I speak to indulgence and those

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Speaker 1: moments of joy? That’s all fine. I mean, people are

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Speaker 1: still going to eat ice cream at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day. It’s just a I think you’re just going

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Speaker 1: to have to think very carefully about messaging.

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Speaker 2: I love that you pivoted the conversation to exactly where

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Speaker 2: I was hoping to go, which is this whole idea

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Speaker 2: of other health-related trends. We talked about health, food, and retail.

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Speaker 2: We talked a lot about GLP-1s, and I was going

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Speaker 2: to ask about women’s health. And you talked about things

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Speaker 2: like HRT, hormone replacement therapy, things like that. So what

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Speaker 2: are trends that you’re starting to see, especially outside the U.S.

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Speaker 2: through Ahold, which is obviously multinational in nature, that maybe

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Speaker 2: some American companies can start saying, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: think we need to start preparing for this. Because I

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Speaker 2: don’t know if it’s because I’m of a certain age,

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Speaker 2: but there’s obviously much more conversation in my neck of

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Speaker 2: the woods around menopause and perimenopause and things like that.

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Speaker 2: as those conversations tick up, you’ve certainly seen a very

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Speaker 2: different perspective on the other side of the pond. What

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Speaker 2: should the smartest leaders in commerce be paying attention to

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Speaker 2: so they’re not caught as flat-footed as they were on GLP-1?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the moment for me where

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Speaker 1: I realized this was changing and menopause was coming above

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Speaker 1: ground was in 2019.

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Speaker 4: So pre-COVID, I was.

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Speaker 1: In Heathrow arriving at Terminal 5. And there’s usually two massive,

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Speaker 1: massive billboards. And, you know, typically they have like Burberry

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Speaker 1: or some other brand on them. And that week they

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Speaker 1: had menopause care on both of those huge billboards.

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Speaker 4: And I was thinking, that’s interesting.

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Speaker 2: And you know, that’s not a personalized ad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I’m sure. But, you know, seven years ago, There

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Speaker 4: was this real.

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Speaker 1: Conversation about menopause awareness week. What are companies doing around

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Speaker 1: menopause care?

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Speaker 4: What are their policies?

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Speaker 1: You know, so many women get misdiagnosed during this period

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Speaker 1: as having depression and anxiety. And it’s so hard to

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Speaker 1: sort of differentiate what is just life and midlife and

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Speaker 1: all the pressures that that involves. And what is actually

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Speaker 1: a lack of estrogen and perimenopause symptoms? And I think

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Speaker 1: the US is starting to move in that direction. I

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Speaker 1: do think companies like Midi Health are doing a good

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Speaker 1: job of raising awareness, but we really need to have

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Speaker 1: a more mainstream conversation. I mean, if you work at

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Speaker 1: one of these large companies, what is their policy?

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Speaker 4: Do they have one? Do they cover these treatments?

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Speaker 1: And I think these are important questions that female entrepreneurs associates,

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Speaker 1: but particularly female leaders need to be asking about their

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Speaker 1: own workplaces.

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Speaker 2: This is part of the conversation that we were having

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Speaker 2: in the coffee shop when you told me about the

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Speaker 2: escalator and the big menopause sign. And then after that,

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Speaker 2: I couldn’t unhear it. I was at an event the

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Speaker 2: following week, the Matrix Awards, where some of our former

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Speaker 2: guests like Diana Hausling were being honored. And two of

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Speaker 2: the honorees spoken their acceptance speeches about menopause and menopause

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Speaker 2: awareness and all of this stuff and the symptoms beyond

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Speaker 2: health flashes that people need to be aware of and

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Speaker 2: how to deal with them. One of them did speak

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Speaker 2: specifically around the intersection of GLP-1 and the health benefits

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Speaker 2: associated with that that helps women with the women’s health stuff.

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Speaker 2: The correlations are crazy. And what the extra layer you

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Speaker 2: put on top of it is these people that are

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Speaker 2: affected by this are primary household shoppers. So as the

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Speaker 2: former head of CBS, do you feel like there’s like

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Speaker 2: this major retail brand opportunity out there that people should

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Speaker 2: just be like, you guys, if you’re going to be

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Speaker 2: on top of anything, is this the most hidden, obvious

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Speaker 2: thing out there? And yes, this is a leading question.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that’s what’s so interesting because menopause

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Speaker 1: used to be associated with female aging, right? And most

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Speaker 1: women don’t want to be spoken to as if they

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Speaker 1: are aging. So it’s like, how do you turn it

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Speaker 1: around to a positive and reclaiming a period of your

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Speaker 1: life and your own health and your mastery.

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Speaker 4: Of the universe?

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Speaker 1: And so, I do think retailers need to address it,

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Speaker 1: but they need to do it in a smart way

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Speaker 1: and think about how they are empowering those messages and

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Speaker 1: creating the right products and even just sort of helping

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Speaker 1: people on that journey. Because the fact about menopause is

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Speaker 1: it’s a long journey. It’s a multi-year journey. And your

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Speaker 1: needs are quite different along the way. So With all

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Speaker 1: the AI personalization that we have these days, I don’t

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Speaker 1: think there are many companies who can actually speak to

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Speaker 1: you about what your health needs, your sleep needs, your

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Speaker 1: nutrition needs are at the different stages of that journey.

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Speaker 1: And I think whoever manages to do that has a

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Speaker 1: great opportunity ahead of them.

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Speaker 3: I can hear right now the rush of entrepreneurs off

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Speaker 3: to solve that problem. No, but it is interesting. It’s

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Speaker 3: hard being in New York to not have your New

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Speaker 3: York blinders, but Sarah and I were just at the

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Speaker 3: Cannes Lion Festival and a male customer of mine who’s

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Speaker 3: at a big Fortune 500 company was talking to me

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Speaker 3: about his wife going through menopause. So there is something

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Speaker 3: happening right now in the cultural zeitgeist because that type

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Speaker 3: of conversation I don’t think would have happened a decade ago. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, we are so curious, obviously, on where this

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Speaker 3: all ends up. We’re paying attention to the trends. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it’s clearly impacting so many consumer industries. I think the

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Speaker 3: barrier to entry that you identified is the price. And,

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Speaker 3: you know, will something like this come down in price

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Speaker 3: for consumers? But we have to ask you our famous

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Speaker 3: last question, which is, what is the bravest thing you’ve

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Speaker 3: ever done?

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Speaker 1: I know you’re looking for me to say going on GLP-1,

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Speaker 1: but I don’t consider that.

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Speaker 4: To be that brave.

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Speaker 1: So I’m going to say the bravest thing I have

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Speaker 1: ever done is I did the Trans-Siberian Railway by myself

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Speaker 1: when I was 21. I was a great believer in

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Speaker 1: overland journeys. So the That was one of them. And

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Speaker 1: my other one was Cairo to Cape Town, which took

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Speaker 1: me three months. And now I look back and think

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Speaker 1: that was a pretty crazy thing to have done. But

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Speaker 1: I definitely think it categorizes as brave.

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Speaker 3: Well, I’m wondering if there’s anything left on this bucket list.

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Speaker 4: Oh, many, many things. I’m a great filler of buckets.

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Speaker 3: Well, sounds unbelievable. Thank you so much for sharing your insights.

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Speaker 3: I’m sure we’ll look back at this episode a year

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Speaker 3: from now and be able to see the impact of

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Speaker 3: GLP-1 on the consumer industry.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: If you like what you heard and you want to

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Speaker 3: think about how food manufacturers are reinventing themselves, go check

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00:23:38,359 –> 00:23:41,820
Speaker 3: out a recent episode we did with Risa at Campbell’s.

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Speaker 3: And don’t forget to write a review. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and.

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Speaker 1: The host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching

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Speaker 1: on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this

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00:24:13,970 –> 00:24:17,070
Speaker 1: incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once.

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Speaker 4: As a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating

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Speaker 4: and inspiring people on the planet.

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Speaker 1: Now on Touch of Truth, we’re coming centre stage and

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Speaker 1: sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and

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Speaker 1: visions for the future.

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Speaker 2: That will challenge your way of thinking.

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Speaker 4: Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: New episodes come out every Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: I do hope to see you there.