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Speaker 1: The question becomes, how do you translate emotional value into

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Speaker 1: a signal that now these machines can actually interpret? An

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable question that every brand team should be asking right

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Speaker 1: now is, if an AI removed, imagine your packaging, your

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Speaker 1: shelf placement, and even your advertising budget, would you still

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Speaker 1: be chosen? For a lot of brands, the answer is no.

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Speaker 1: Although AI may automate selections, humans still define what preference is.

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Speaker 1: especially in categories that Nestle plays in, like coffee, pet care, confectionery.

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Speaker 1: Purchases that I think that are deeply emotional and ritualistic.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 3: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

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Speaker 3: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah,

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Speaker 3: of all your time speaking to e-commerce and brand sale professionals,

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Speaker 3: how often do you think those people are thinking about

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Speaker 3: fundamental brand building principles?

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Speaker 2: It’s such a good question, Rachel, because it really depends

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Speaker 2: on the talent and how they came up. I look

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Speaker 2: at e-commerce or Omnicommerce people as like a group of

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Speaker 2: social misfits because Sam came from like… Some come from

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Speaker 2: the sales background, some come from a marketing background, some

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Speaker 2: come from an IT background. I mean, even if you

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Speaker 2: look at the roster of guests that we’ve had over

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Speaker 2: the past almost six years, nobody came up through an

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Speaker 2: e-commerce background that’s been working for an extended period of

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Speaker 2: time because it didn’t exist. So people who come from

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Speaker 2: the brand side and then move into commerce, they have

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Speaker 2: that brand building nativity. But if you came in through… IT,

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Speaker 2: then this becomes a much more functional algorithmic process. And

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Speaker 2: so the key for commerce practitioners and leaders is to

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Speaker 2: figure out where your muscle is strong, but more importantly,

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Speaker 2: where your muscles might be weak or never been used

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Speaker 2: and figure out how to fill in blanks.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think that’s why for so long, these

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Speaker 3: large CPG organizations had these 18 month rotations so you

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Speaker 3: could get exposed to all the different fields and have

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Speaker 3: empathy for the different functions. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I remember in the early days with Kraft Heinz, it

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Speaker 2: drove me batty, this whole 18-month cycle. Many of you

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Speaker 2: establish your relationship with somebody, they rotate off. And then

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Speaker 2: even worse, if you’re a brand manager, how can you

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Speaker 2: really invest in the emotional connection to the brand and

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Speaker 2: then figure out what the right solution is? And then

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Speaker 2: 18 months later, you’re off and it’s not enough time.

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Speaker 2: Then you become more of a brand manager. caretaker than

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Speaker 2: a brand steward.

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Speaker 3: It’s interesting. I think if we were to do a

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Speaker 3: pulse check survey on a lot of the people that

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Speaker 3: we’ve had onto the show, and if we asked them,

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Speaker 3: do you think brand building matters in a world of

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Speaker 3: AI driven discovery? I think we’d see a tale of

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Speaker 3: two cities, not like a unanimous perspective.

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Speaker 2: I think you’re right. We see a tale of two cities,

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Speaker 2: but the two cities are One would be, yeah, of course, obviously, duh.

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Speaker 2: But those who don’t will just be like, oh, this

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Speaker 2: is lower funnel. This isn’t brand building. If you’re a

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Speaker 2: beloved brand and you’ve got all the equity in the

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Speaker 2: world and that’s really, really great, then sure, this could

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Speaker 2: be your matching luggage. But very rarely is that the case.

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Speaker 2: And does it continue to be the case? I would

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Speaker 2: argue more commerce people have to understand the criticality of

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Speaker 2: brands because… Brand is what people say about you when

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Speaker 2: you’re not in the room. Isn’t commerce when you’re not

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Speaker 2: in the room? Literally, you’re not even in the store.

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Speaker 3: Well, you don’t have to hear it from us. You’re

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Speaker 3: in for a real treat. You’re going to hear from

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Speaker 3: our friend Stefan at Nestle, who probably has one of

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Speaker 3: the freshest articulations of what it takes to build brand

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Speaker 3: in today’s AI-driven world. So let’s bring Stefan onto the show.

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Speaker 2: We are super excited to have you. I think we’ve

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Speaker 2: been talking about this since last year’s Shop Talk. It

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Speaker 2: could be that long. But so much has changed in

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Speaker 2: the past year. Oh my gosh. And when we were

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Speaker 2: catching up a few weeks ago, you had said something

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Speaker 2: that I just can’t stop thinking about. We’re changing this

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Speaker 2: whole idea about decisioning. A few weeks ago, we had

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Speaker 2: Jim Lozinski talk about the new zero moment of truth.

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Speaker 2: How you get exposed to brands, how people shop. And

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Speaker 2: we’re not just changing how people shop, we’re changing who

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Speaker 2: actually makes the decision for you. Is it you, the

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Speaker 2: actual shopper, or is it AI that is now curating

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Speaker 2: it for you? If AI, in fact, is making more

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Speaker 2: of those decisions of what you get, what you see,

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Speaker 2: then is there any purpose in brand building? So just

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Speaker 2: starting with like an easy layup.

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest misconception is that AI is somehow

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Speaker 1: going to kill branding. it does something a little bit

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Speaker 1: more uncomfortable. And I think it forces us to find

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Speaker 1: out what are our brands actually worth. For years, digital

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Speaker 1: commerce rewarded visibility. If you win the search result, you

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Speaker 1: win the scroll, you somehow won disproportionate demand. But AI

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Speaker 1: is changing that entirely and quite fast. The consumer today

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Speaker 1: may not evaluate 10 options anymore. However, like you just said,

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Speaker 1: their assistant might evaluate thousands of returns, and the recommendation

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Speaker 1: that they get is just a few recommendations. So that’s

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Speaker 1: a fundamentally different environment. There’s one nuance, however, that gets lost.

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Speaker 1: Although AI may automate selections, humans still define what preference is,

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Speaker 1: especially in categories that Nestle plays in, like coffee, pet care, confectionery,

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Speaker 1: purchases that I think that are deeply emotional and ritualistic.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of a personal story, actually, one that

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Speaker 1: drew me to a career at Nestle. My grandmother, she

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Speaker 1: was born in Serbia in the early 1900s. All of

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Speaker 1: her life, she drank traditional, strong, dark Turkish coffee, the

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Speaker 1: really bitter ones that I don’t even know how they…

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Speaker 1: And when my family immigrated to Canada, my mother brought

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Speaker 1: back a jar of Nescafe on one of our first

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Speaker 1: visits back. And instant coffee wasn’t as developed there yet,

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Speaker 1: so my grandmother was not familiar with it whatsoever. But

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Speaker 1: she became completely attached to it. And I remember she

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Speaker 1: used to say the sweetest part of her going to

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Speaker 1: bed at night was knowing that she’d wake up and

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Speaker 1: make herself a cup of Nescafe. And to me, that’s

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Speaker 1: not utility. That’s emotional architecture. And I think if AI

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Speaker 1: can optimize caffeine delivery, sure. But it’s not going to

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Speaker 1: replace that anticipation, that ritual, or that comfort that my

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Speaker 1: grandma was referring to. And the challenge is that historically,

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Speaker 1: brands communicated those signals through packaging, storytelling, shelf placement, or

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Speaker 1: sampling with sensory cues. AI today intermediates many of those moments.

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Speaker 1: The question becomes, how do you translate emotional value into

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Speaker 1: a signal that now these machines can actually interpret? Winning

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Speaker 1: brands maybe will need two layers of future equity going forward.

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Speaker 1: There’s an element of human equity, and that’s that emotional residence,

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Speaker 1: that identity, the aspiration. And then you’re going to have

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Speaker 1: this new machine equity, which is all going to be

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Speaker 1: around reliability, consistency, fulfillment, confidence. What is that verified satisfaction

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Speaker 1: for a machine? And most companies today are naturally so

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Speaker 1: built for just that first one because we’re just in

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Speaker 1: the process of getting used to the second one. And

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Speaker 1: as AI handles more transactional decisions, those deeply human brands

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Speaker 1: may actually become more valuable. Humans will reserve value. intentional

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Speaker 1: decision-making for categories that are tied to ritual identity and care.

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Speaker 1: So I think weak branding is going to disappear, yes,

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Speaker 1: but that deeply human branding is going to survive and

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Speaker 1: potentially even become stronger.

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Speaker 3: I love the articulation that you just made. I’m trying

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Speaker 3: to put myself right now in the shoes of a

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Speaker 3: budding CPG entrepreneur who wants to bring in that new

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Speaker 3: brand to market that one day Nestle will go and acquire.

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Speaker 3: And so I guess when you think about modern day

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Speaker 3: brand building for the AI generation, how would you tackle

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Speaker 3: that in a world where part of the decision-making is

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Speaker 3: being outsourced to a non-human entity?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that’s the defining commerce question of probably

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Speaker 1: the next decade, isn’t it? You’re right. I don’t think

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Speaker 1: most brand teams have maybe truly sat with that discomfort

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Speaker 1: of it yet. In a utility-driven category, And I hope

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Speaker 1: I don’t offend anyone in this sense, but bottled water

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Speaker 1: or household staples, litter, those routine replenishment, AI creates enormous

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Speaker 1: compression in that sense. And if an LLM optimizes for

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Speaker 1: value or for availability and consistency, your differentiation is going

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Speaker 1: to weaken fast. So you can have a rich heritage

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Speaker 1: campaign and still become interchangeable if you don’t somehow own,

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Speaker 1: let’s call it a structural operational advantage. And maybe we

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Speaker 1: can define this as, I don’t know, algorithmic commoditization in

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Speaker 1: a sense. And I think a lot of brands are

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Speaker 1: heading there without realizing it because we’re over-optimizing for something

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Speaker 1: we don’t know what we’re optimizing for yet. So this

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Speaker 1: is where I think some of the emotional categories behave

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Speaker 1: completely differently. Think about coffee, the example I just gave

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Speaker 1: with my grandma. It’s quite ritual. Pet care, it’s love

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Speaker 1: and responsibility. And then you have chocolate, you know, it’s

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Speaker 1: reward and celebration. And these categories are loaded with psychological meaning.

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Speaker 1: us as humans, historically, we resist fully outsourcing psychologically meaningful decisions.

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Speaker 1: Are either of you familiar with Daniel Kahneman’s work in

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Speaker 1: Thinking Fast and Slow?

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Speaker 3: Indeed.

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Speaker 1: Okay, fantastic.

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Speaker 2: So let’s not assume our listeners have. So if you

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Speaker 2: want to give a quickie.

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Speaker 1: Sure, sure, sure. So this is a psychologist. He had

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Speaker 1: a book, a fantastic study just around how our brains think.

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Speaker 1: And much of Nestle’s brand building is built this way.

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Speaker 1: And you have these system thinking. System one is fast, emotional, habitual.

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Speaker 1: And system two is this rational, deliberate, kind of more

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Speaker 1: slow way. So AI, I think, is extraordinary at that

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Speaker 1: system two optimization. But the strongest food and beverage brands

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Speaker 1: were probably built on that system one, you know, the comfort,

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Speaker 1: the nostalgia, the identity. And this actually connects to something

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Speaker 1: you were saying that Jim Leszczynski spoke about on your

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Speaker 1: previous episode around the zero moment of truth, right? And

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Speaker 1: how the internet changed the way consumers build confidence before

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Speaker 1: a purchase. And I think what AI does is take

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Speaker 1: that even one step further. And it’s not just about

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Speaker 1: the moment of truth moving online. It’s that the moment

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Speaker 1: of truth is increasingly being experienced by a system acting

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Speaker 1: on the consumer’s behalf. And the AI builds the confidence

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Speaker 1: this time. And the human just receives a recommendation. That’s

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Speaker 1: a profound shift in where brand building actually needs to happen.

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Speaker 1: And we’ve seen this pattern before. I think we spoke

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Speaker 1: about it a little bit earlier where we were saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, when these systems become super efficient, people start

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Speaker 1: to reintroduce humanity. When streaming exploded, what happened? We had

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Speaker 1: vinyl come back. fast fashion like Zara H & M

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Speaker 1: exploded and you have craftsmanship becoming somehow premium again. That

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Speaker 1: same dynamic probably going to start to play out in

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Speaker 1: commerce where some of these utility purchases get increasingly delegated

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Speaker 1: and emotional purchases become more increasingly intentional. An uncomfortable question

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Speaker 1: that every brand team should be asking right now is

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Speaker 1: if an AI removed, imagine your packaging, your shelf placement,

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Speaker 1: and even your advertising budget, would you still be chosen?

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Speaker 1: For a lot of brands, the answer is no. Damn.

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Speaker 3: I feel naked right now.

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Speaker 1: It’s quite normal to be in this space right now, right?

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Speaker 1: For a lot of brands, the answer is no. And

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Speaker 1: I think that’s the gap worth closing because in an

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Speaker 1: AI economy, those utility brands might get optimized, but emotional

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Speaker 1: brands will get even more protected.

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Speaker 2: This kind of goes back to something I wrote down

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Speaker 2: while you were speaking, this whole idea of algorithmic commoditization.

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Speaker 2: The idea of What defines a utility brand versus an

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Speaker 2: emotional brand? And I like the way you kind of

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Speaker 2: broke out the chocolate, the pet food and the coffee.

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Speaker 2: Are utility brands screwed or do they just have to

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Speaker 2: figure out how to win the algorithm? Are utility brands

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Speaker 2: screwed just because of private label and financial realities?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it touches on kind of what everyone’s preparing

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Speaker 1: for today. And it’s, you know, what are the new

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Speaker 1: Jim mentioned the five Cs of marketing. What are the

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Speaker 1: new Cs of AI? And Nestle, we’ve started to think

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Speaker 1: about this around content and context, which is well regarded

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Speaker 1: right now in the industry, and even credibility, obviously. But

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Speaker 1: what is that structured confidence that’s going to shift from

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Speaker 1: convincing a human in an emotional moment to reducing uncertainty

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Speaker 1: for an intelligence system that’s going to make a decision

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Speaker 1: on behalf of a human? Most of us, myself as well, guilty,

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Speaker 1: or the digital shelf conversations that we have today are

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Speaker 1: still centered on that visible layer. And it’s content quality, images,

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Speaker 1: search ranking, reviews, sponsored placements. What we’ve defined our careers

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Speaker 1: in the digital shelf within the last 10 years, which

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Speaker 1: are all important. But AI systems are reading that layer

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Speaker 1: deeper of confidence, right? Can this product reliably satisfy the consumer?

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Speaker 1: Does it arrive on time? Is it going to be

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Speaker 1: consistently in stock? Do people reorder it? So to answer

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Speaker 1: your question, these are the most important parts, certainly for

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Speaker 1: the utility brands, because that’s a certainly different operating model

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Speaker 1: than most brands were built for initially, but now we

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Speaker 1: need to serve. I’d be remiss to not share this example.

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Speaker 1: Two years ago, KitKat was a little bit ahead of

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Speaker 1: its time in my home market in Canada, and they

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Speaker 1: had this amazing campaign called Have AI Break. I’m not

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Speaker 1: sure if you guys saw this come out two years ago,

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Speaker 1: but It was grounded in the Google DeepMind research showing

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Speaker 1: how if you prompt an AI model with simply saying,

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Speaker 1: have a break right before you ask a question, it

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Speaker 1: actually improved the accuracy of the answer. So that’s how

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Speaker 1: one of our brands found a way to make itself

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Speaker 1: legible in an AI system, not just for humans. So

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Speaker 1: a confectionery brand embedding itself into how AI thinks. And

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Speaker 1: that was building machine equity before we even had a

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Speaker 1: vocabulary for it. most brands, even utility brands, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we’re not there yet. And the risk is that

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Speaker 1: if your inventory is unstable, your reviews are inconsistent and

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Speaker 1: your substitutions are poor, you know, AI systems may quietly

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Speaker 1: deprioritize you long before a human ever notices. So that’s

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Speaker 1: where I think that core function is still going to

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Speaker 1: be super, super important. But the interesting thing I think

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Speaker 1: is this is where retail media, iChain and brand strategy

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Speaker 1: probably converge in a way that the industry hasn’t really

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Speaker 1: let sink in yet. If you have operational inconsistency, it

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Speaker 1: becomes a branding problem in an AI-mediated world. So your

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Speaker 1: fulfillment rate now becomes part of your brand equity. And

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Speaker 1: the way your product performs on a Tuesday afternoon reorder

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Speaker 1: matters just as much as the campaign that launched it, right?

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Speaker 1: So the question we need to start asking ourselves isn’t,

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Speaker 1: how do we win the search result? It’s probably, are

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Speaker 1: we architected for persuasion or are we architected for confidence?

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Speaker 1: And those are two very different companies and It doesn’t

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Speaker 1: matter which segment or sector you’re in.

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Speaker 3: Stefan, I want to hear your take on emotional brands

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Speaker 3: versus utilitarian brands based on everything that you’re seeing. Do

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Speaker 3: utility brands just outright become private label?

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Speaker 1: It’s a tough one because the simplest way I could

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Speaker 1: put it is if you’re making the algorithm less confident

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Speaker 1: in your brand, you’re eventually making probably a future consumer’s

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Speaker 1: experience worse. So they’re the same thing right now. And

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Speaker 1: the algorithm is somehow the consumer’s proxy. So when a

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Speaker 1: retailer pushes for something that creates operational strain, so let’s

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Speaker 1: think about heavy promotions that we can’t consistently fulfill or

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Speaker 1: pricing mechanics that train the AI to see you as

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Speaker 1: a deal brand or a private label brand more than

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Speaker 1: a trusted staple, the short-term win becomes a long-term signal problem.

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Speaker 1: And that damage today is invisible because there’s no bad

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Speaker 1: review or no loss placement that you can point to

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Speaker 1: to say that. So the algorithm just quietly starts recommending

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Speaker 1: you less and you don’t know why. And that’s probably

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Speaker 1: the conflict that matters more than whether or not, you know,

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Speaker 1: where these private label brands will end up. So it’s

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Speaker 1: not the brand versus the retailer. It’s probably your short-term

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Speaker 1: visibility versus your long-term algorithmic trust. Practically, the way to

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Speaker 1: try to resolve it is maybe by separating the two things.

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Speaker 1: So you let machines own the routine replenishment and protect

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Speaker 1: emotional moments for humans. the repeat Purina order, that we

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Speaker 1: have to optimize for relentlessly, for efficiency, for confidence. However,

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Speaker 1: the moment a new pet parent is choosing a brand

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Speaker 1: for the first time, that needs to be the human experience.

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Speaker 1: And that storytelling, emotion, and trust building, we can’t let

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Speaker 1: the algorithm flatten that. And that’s why we need to

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Speaker 1: save ourselves from driving ourselves to the bottom or over-indexing

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Speaker 1: on private label. And the only way that I think

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Speaker 1: maybe that actually works for in a company is if

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Speaker 1: a brand, commerce, retail, media, supply chain were all genuinely aligned, right?

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Speaker 1: And I think you guys have spoken many times on

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Speaker 1: your show before about the silo tax that companies pay

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Speaker 1: when teams aren’t connected. I honestly think that in an

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Speaker 1: AI world, the tax gets dramatically more expensive because any

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Speaker 1: of these operational failures anywhere in the chain become a

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Speaker 1: brand signal almost immediately.

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Speaker 2: So with that in mind, I think about the conversations

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Speaker 2: you and I had five years ago. I think about

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Speaker 2: the conversations you and I had two years ago. And

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Speaker 2: listening to the conversation we’re having today, I don’t think

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Speaker 2: we would have recognized ourselves two years ago if we

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Speaker 2: were listening to this recording. How do you think your

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Speaker 2: role has changed just in light of so much of

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Speaker 2: the change that has happened and given all of the

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Speaker 2: really just profound thoughts that you’ve been sharing? Like, what

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Speaker 2: have you stopped doing? Because you can’t do more without

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Speaker 2: taking something away. So what have you stopped doing and

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Speaker 2: what have you started doing?

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Speaker 1: It’s actually elevated along a lot of the same challenges

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Speaker 1: or observations that we had over the last five years.

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Speaker 1: So somehow it’s the same problem reshaped differently or said differently.

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Speaker 1: And I’ll use content as an example. When we were

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Speaker 1: talking about content five years ago, we had this strain

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Speaker 1: on how are we going to develop many different variations

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Speaker 1: of content for all of the different retailers that we had.

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Speaker 1: Then we had a strain of how are we going

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Speaker 1: to publish and syndicate all of that content to all

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Speaker 1: of the different retailers that we have. Today, we’re talking

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Speaker 1: about the same thing. We know we need more content.

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Speaker 1: We know we need our content that’s contextual, but we

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Speaker 1: need to find out exactly now what are all those

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Speaker 1: prompts and what are all those questions? What are all

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Speaker 1: the things that our shoppers are truly going to care

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Speaker 1: to make sure that our brands resurface? So Our teams

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Speaker 1: are in the same conversations with the same stakeholders, but

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Speaker 1: now we have, I think, more of a push behind us,

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Speaker 1: more of a demand or the burning platform to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: if we were trying to make copy variations every quarter

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Speaker 1: based on seasonality for some of our products, well, now

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Speaker 1: we know that recency of 60 days is more important

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Speaker 1: for some LLM models. This is driving further conversation of

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Speaker 1: how do we start to shrink that process, ways of working,

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Speaker 1: of delivery. And how do we ensure that we have

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Speaker 1: the right inputs into making it the right content? So

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Speaker 1: it’s quite fascinating because the same conversation are resurfacing from

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Speaker 1: that we’ve had over the last five to 10 years,

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Speaker 1: but in a very different format and a different shape,

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Speaker 1: but with a lot more, I would say endorsement to

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Speaker 1: move forward.

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Speaker 3: Talk about someone to be able to help you with

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Speaker 3: persuasion internally. You got your new colleague, the LLM. Stavon,

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Speaker 3: it’s really been such a pleasure to hear your take

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Speaker 3: on how to build modern day brands in this ecosystem.

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Speaker 3: But we got to ask you our famous last question,

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Speaker 3: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: I thought about this a lot. The bravest thing I’ve

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Speaker 1: ever done is I ran my first marathon with only

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Speaker 1: 72 hour notice. So this is either a story about

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Speaker 1: bravery or terrible decision-making. So I’ll let you two decide.

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Speaker 1: Last year, I was training for my second half marathon

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Speaker 1: and the keyword there is half. And I was heading

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Speaker 1: to Buenos Aires for a digital shelf workshop with our

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Speaker 1: team in Argentina. And on the final prep call, somebody

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Speaker 1: mentioned to me, you know, be aware the city is

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Speaker 1: going to shut down this Sunday for the marathon. And

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Speaker 1: I made a joke somewhere along the lines of, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do my long runs on Sunday. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I’ll join it for a few kilometers. And there was

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Speaker 1: a pause on the call, and one of my Argentine

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Speaker 1: colleagues said, completely deadpan, if you’re serious, I know someone

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Speaker 1: at the marathon organization, and I can get you a bib.

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Speaker 1: And instead of laughing it off like a normal person,

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Speaker 1: I said yes. So fast forward to an 18-hour flight.

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Speaker 1: I had on the plane, I’m not sure if you’re

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Speaker 1: familiar with Haruki Murakami. There’s a book, a memoir he

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Speaker 1: wrote that’s called What I Talk About When I Talk

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Speaker 1: About Running. And his memoir is about marathons and writing.

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Speaker 1: And the through line through it all is that finishing

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Speaker 1: isn’t physical preparation. It’s about mental commitment and that willingness

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Speaker 1: to endure. And I read the whole thing and thought,

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Speaker 1: all right, my body’s not ready for this, but maybe

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Speaker 1: I can make my mind to be. I landed Saturday morning,

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Speaker 1: jet lagged. I got a text from my calling saying,

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Speaker 1: I got your bib, but you need to get a

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Speaker 1: medical clearance for the race. That’s mandatory. I used ChatGPT

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Speaker 1: to find a clinic open on a Saturday morning in

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Speaker 1: Buenos Aires to get medical clearance to race. Picked up

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Speaker 1: my bib and loaded up on some choripan and empanadas

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Speaker 1: for carb loading and went to sleep hoping for the best. Sunday,

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Speaker 1: I woke up and I did it. I ran my

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Speaker 1: first full marathon through the streets of Buenos Aires and

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Speaker 1: it was extraordinary. The city, the energy, the people. It’s

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Speaker 1: the most alive I think I’ve ever felt. However, the

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Speaker 1: most brave thing I would say is the Monday morning,

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Speaker 1: still barely walking I had to stand in front of

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Speaker 1: 50 of my colleagues and run a full day digital

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Speaker 1: shop workshop. So that was definitely great.

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Speaker 3: What was your time?

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Speaker 1: Just under five hours. I mean, I had to do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of running and walking to mix it

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Speaker 1: in there, but well worth the experience.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And no injuries?

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Speaker 1: No injuries. No, no, no. It was low expectations. So

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Speaker 1: then you kind of just go and have fun, but

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Speaker 1: it fueled the fire for some future marathons for sure.

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Speaker 3: Well, If you have the mental fortitude to run a

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Speaker 3: marathon with no preparation, AI’s got nothing on you.

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Speaker 1: We’ll see. We’ll see.

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Speaker 3: Stefan, thank you for all your insights. We’ll probably call

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Speaker 3: you back six months from now and see where the

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Speaker 3: world has landed.

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Speaker 1: I’m sure it’ll all look different. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: If you like what you heard, you can go check

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Speaker 3: out a few other episodes we’ve done with Nestle executives.

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Speaker 3: Definitely go check out our friend Neil for his global perspective.

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Speaker 3: Please check out a recent episode we did with Jim,

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Speaker 3: a professor at Northwestern who talks about that zero moment

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Speaker 3: of truth. If you like what you heard, write a review.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 4: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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Speaker 4: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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Speaker 4: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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Speaker 4: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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Speaker 4: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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Speaker 4: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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Speaker 4: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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Speaker 4: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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Speaker 4: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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Speaker 4: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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Speaker 4: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.