Brave Commerce

Hosted ByRachel Tipograph & Sarah Hofstetter

MikMak Founder & CEO Rachel Tipograph and Profitero’s President Sarah Hofstetter tackle what’s relevant in eCommerce today for the world’s biggest brands. Each episode they’ll share tips worth millions in sales, while interviewing the bravest marketers on how to navigate eCommerce’s latest consumer and retailer dynamics.

BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode Campbell’s Risa Cretella on Reinventing Iconic Brands and Winning in Commoditized Categories

Brave Commerce
Brave Commerce
BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode Campbell’s Risa Cretella on Reinventing Iconic Brands and Winning in Commoditized Categories
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In this episode of BRAVE COMMERCE, Rachel Tipograph and Sarah Hofstetter speak with Risa Cretella, Executive Vice President, Meals & Beverages at The Campbell’s Company, about what it takes to evolve iconic brands while staying competitive in fast-moving, highly commoditized categories. Risa shares how she brings an entrepreneurial mindset into a large organization, focusing on smart risk-taking, faster decision-making, and empowering teams to act with conviction, even without perfect data.

She also discusses how Campbell’s is approaching innovation differently, starting with real consumer behavior and moving quickly when there’s clear evidence of demand. The conversation explores why brands lose relevance over time, how private-label gains ground, and what it takes to build and maintain a true “right to win”, while aligning brand-building efforts with commercial outcomes to drive real growth.

Key takeaways:

  • Speed is a competitive advantage, but only if teams are empowered to act before perfect validation.
  • Private label growth is often a symptom of brand stagnation, not just pricing pressure.
  • The strongest innovations don’t create new behavior; they formalize what consumers are already doing.

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Speaker 1: Risk tolerance cannot be applied as a one-size-fits-all, right? You

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Speaker 1: have to consider the maturity and resiliency of a brand,

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Speaker 1: the health of a category, and also the retailer’s willingness.

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Speaker 2: They have to be willing to take risks with you.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course, the size and importance of any

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Speaker 1: given brand or business to a company’s P & L.

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Speaker 1: So with the portfolio I run now, with P & L, six,

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Speaker 1: seven distinct segments. You cannot take six or seven big risks, right?

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Speaker 1: You have to balance your risk-taking with having safety nets

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Speaker 1: and I’ll call them sure bets. So in a nutshell,

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Speaker 1: I’ve now figured out how to articulate my remit is

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Speaker 1: really around smart risk-taking.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 4: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

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Speaker 4: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah,

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Speaker 4: we obviously spend a lot of time within CPG, and

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Speaker 4: it feels like in some ways.

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Speaker 2: The gap between.

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Speaker 4: challenger brands and the incumbents are widening for a multitude

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Speaker 4: of reasons. But, you know, from my perspective, also, especially

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Speaker 4: since joining Spin since the acquisition, is that the challenger

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Speaker 4: brands are just designed to innovate. And it’s much more

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Speaker 4: difficult for large CPGs to bring product innovation to market.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it goes back to book by Lou Gerstner,

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Speaker 3: who says elephants can’t dance. It’s very hard for big

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Speaker 3: companies to move nimbly. And so innovate or die is

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Speaker 3: a requirement for disruptors. Bigger companies, it’s innovate or die

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Speaker 3: a slow death, I guess, versus just cold halves, which is,

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Speaker 3: this is just terribly depressing. But taking this back to

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Speaker 3: the podcast, it requires a certain degree of bravery to

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Speaker 3: within big companies to take big swings because whether it’s

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Speaker 3: innovation or whether it’s marketing, any big swing that you

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Speaker 3: take could be an epic flop and you could be

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Speaker 3: a brand caretaker without being a brand leader.

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Speaker 4: And the reality is, is that step change innovation is

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Speaker 4: what wins. Like you can’t take baby steps anymore.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, the whole new and improved Starburst you

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Speaker 3: can put on a product that will only get you

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Speaker 3: so far. And in fact, some argue that when you

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Speaker 3: do that, it creates negative effect for sleep shoppers. So

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Speaker 3: the question is, what do you do?

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Speaker 4: The number one thing that you have to do is

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Speaker 4: keep moving. Inertia is what will kill you.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: But I would posit you also have to be comfortable

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Speaker 3: taking risk, like risking like a start of risks, because

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Speaker 3: big companies used to be able to outspend.

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Speaker 2: But the nimble ones.

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Speaker 3: Are out hustling. So the question is, what kind of

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Speaker 3: a big swing can you take? And do you have

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Speaker 3: enough downside protection on the risk-taking to be able to

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Speaker 3: do it? I mean, back in the day, and this

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Speaker 3: is really back in the day when I worked on

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Speaker 3: Oreo and we did the Gay Pride social media post,

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Speaker 3: which is hilarious that that was risk-taking back then, but

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Speaker 3: yet it was. I got a phone call from somebody

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Speaker 3: very senior at the company telling me how much risk

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Speaker 3: I put to the business by doing that. And I’m like,

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Speaker 3: I was just the agency, like the agency got approval. Like,

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Speaker 3: I don’t know why you’re yelling at me, but the

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Speaker 3: brand teams, they got their wrist slap for taking swings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: A hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: What brand of the model is portfolio is more iconic

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Speaker 3: than Ori? Because they take big swings now. And, and

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Speaker 3: I think that’s, that’s what.

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Speaker 4: Leaders have to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, another place to look is my alma mater.

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Speaker 4: Look at what Richard Dixon is doing right now at Gap.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he has, revitalize that brand that hasn’t been

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Speaker 4: that way since essentially the 90s.

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Speaker 2: But he took big swings.

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Speaker 4: He’s only taking big swings and he’s executing flawlessly.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to our friend Pam Kauffman, former BraveCon alum

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Speaker 3: and friend of the two of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Chief Venture Canin officer over there making some moves.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. But bringing it back to who we’re about

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Speaker 4: to bring on the show, we’ve had folks over the

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Speaker 4: years from Campbell’s join us. And we all know that

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Speaker 4: Sarah Hofstadter is on the board, my co-host of Campbell’s.

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Speaker 4: But there is a rock star leader who came through

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Speaker 4: an acquisition who is leading the meals and beverage business.

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Speaker 4: And once you hear from her, you will see how

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Speaker 4: she is truly a change agent to risk taking within

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Speaker 4: this larger organization. So without further ado, let’s bring Risa

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Speaker 4: onto the show.

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Speaker 3: We are happy to have Rita Critella, EVP of Meals

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Speaker 3: and Beverages at The Campbell’s Company. That is a mouthful,

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Speaker 3: but bottom line, you are the uber boss on all

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Speaker 3: things meals and beverages at Campbell’s, am I right?

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Speaker 1: It’s a wonderful role, and I’m privileged to have it.

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Speaker 1: I’m privileged to be here with the two of you,

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Speaker 1: and greetings to the Brave Commerce audience.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining us. You and I first

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Speaker 3: met via the acquisition by Campbell’s of Rao’s when you

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Speaker 3: were leading a whole bunch of work there, and I

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Speaker 3: fell in love with you instantly. I was like, seriously fangirling.

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Speaker 3: And now it’s just awesome to see you leading the

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Speaker 3: entire M & B division. One of the challenges, though,

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Speaker 3: is when you go from such an entrepreneurial environment to,

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Speaker 3: let’s just say, a bigger beast, if you will. It’s

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Speaker 3: hard to figure out how to bring the best of

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Speaker 3: the best of the entrepreneurship while still handling the scale

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Speaker 3: and diversity of brands and all the other stuff that

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Speaker 3: you have to work with at Campbell’s. So what might

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Speaker 3: be some of the things that you can bring from

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Speaker 3: an entrepreneurial spirit? And what are the things that just

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Speaker 3: don’t scale?

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Speaker 1: Yes. When I first joined the Campbell’s organization, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: via the acquisition, I was being positively bombarded with these

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Speaker 1: questions around Risa. Like, how do we adopt the growth

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Speaker 1: mindset from your entrepreneurial experience, from what we know is

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Speaker 1: very common in and contributes greatly to the success of

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Speaker 1: insurgent brands. And I find myself playing along like, okay, sure,

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Speaker 1: let’s talk about the growth mindset. And then it took

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Speaker 1: a few months for me to fess up like, I’m

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Speaker 1: not actually sure what growth mindset is supposed to mean

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Speaker 1: in terms of my ability to articulate it and apply it.

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Speaker 1: Because it’s not as if when building Rayo’s, We sat

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Speaker 1: around a room and talked about our growth mindset, right?

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Speaker 2: We just did. We just got things done.

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Speaker 1: And that spirit was, I think, inherent in all of

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Speaker 1: us who were attracted to that company, that environment at

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Speaker 1: that time.

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Speaker 2: So it actually took me a bit.

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Speaker 1: To figure out how to articulate this because it really

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Speaker 1: became my number one remit as division president. My primary

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Speaker 1: remit is, Risa, we’re looking to you to drive cultural

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Speaker 1: impact at Campbell’s by perpetuating a growth mindset. So given

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Speaker 1: the importance of it in my remit, I had to

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Speaker 1: figure out what that meant. What it means for me

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Speaker 1: is an obsession with winning in the marketplace. But the

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Speaker 1: how is is really, I would say, around risk-taking. Making

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Speaker 1: fast decisions with limited information is required in a startup

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Speaker 1: environment running an insurgent brand, oftentimes because time and speed

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Speaker 1: are your primary advantage versus big competitors. And secondly, because

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Speaker 1: you just might not have a lot of information. You

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Speaker 1: might not buy Stracona data. You might not be able

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Speaker 1: to afford primary research. And you’re inherently relying on the

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Speaker 1: judgment and experience of your teams. So at a company

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Speaker 1: like Campbell’s, which has a lot of resources and data

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Speaker 1: and information at its fingertips, how do we encourage willingness

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Speaker 1: to fail, less dependency on that data, and inspire people.

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Speaker 2: To be agile?

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Speaker 1: It’s okay to fail. You just have to have a

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Speaker 1: plan to pivot, retool, try something different. So I think culturally,

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Speaker 1: in order to get to that growth mindset, get to

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Speaker 1: that speed, it’s really, I have found conversations about smart

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Speaker 1: risk taking. Now, Risk tolerance cannot be applied as a one-size-fits-all, right?

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Speaker 1: You have to consider the maturity and resiliency of a brand,

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Speaker 1: the health of a category, and also the retailer’s willingness

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Speaker 1: to go along with you, right, on your journey. And

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Speaker 1: they have to be willing to take risks with you.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course, the size and importance of any

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Speaker 1: given brand or business to a company’s P & L.

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Speaker 2: So with the portfolio I run now.

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Speaker 1: with six, seven distinct segments, you cannot take six or

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Speaker 1: seven big risks, right? You have to balance your risk-taking

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Speaker 1: with having safety nets and I’ll call them sure bets.

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Speaker 1: So in a nutshell, I’ve now figured out how to

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Speaker 1: articulate my remit is really around smart risk-taking.

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Speaker 3: So as you think about the smart risk-taking, you talked

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Speaker 3: about the two things that the insurgents have the advantage on,

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Speaker 3: which is time and speed. There is a much bigger organization,

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Speaker 3: more brands, Risk-taking is definitely one element of it, but

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Speaker 3: as you think through, like, what are things that you’ve

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Speaker 3: done to accelerate the time and speed, to get people

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Speaker 3: to get to decisions faster and just pivot when you

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Speaker 3: need to? Or if you have an example you’d be

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Speaker 3: willing to share that says, you know what, we just

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Speaker 3: saw something in the market, and sure, it would have

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Speaker 3: taken us weeks to validate, but, you know… But we

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Speaker 3: have enough pattern recognition to know this is just something

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Speaker 3: we need to go. So an example which we have

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Speaker 3: talked about publicly, it’s an innovation that’s coming out, is

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Speaker 3: around what we’re calling Campbell’s condensed. Sauces, which are launching

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Speaker 3: this summer and will be ubiquitous on shelves this fall

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Speaker 3: going into the holiday season. And this is a product

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Speaker 3: that will have the word sauce on it, on the label,

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Speaker 3: and be merchandised in the soup aisle. That might feel

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Speaker 3: on the surface, like if you’re a tenured Campbell’s employee,

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Speaker 3: if you’ve been a longtime ambassador and steward for the

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Speaker 3: beloved brand, you might say, oh my gosh, that feels

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Speaker 3: terribly risky to have the word sauce on an iconic,

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Speaker 3: you know, Campbell’s dressed package in the soup aisle. When

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Speaker 3: you take a step back, you realize consumers have been

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Speaker 3: using our condensed soups for decades and as cooking sauces,

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Speaker 3: as ingredients incorporating into a broader recipe with a protein

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Speaker 3: and a carbohydrate.

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Speaker 2: So the consumer behavior is there.

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Speaker 1: And we were able to kind of cut through the

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Speaker 1: noise of onerous research, concept testing, et cetera, and just say,

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Speaker 1: we have enough information to based on what consumers are

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Speaker 1: doing with our products today, to have conviction around this,

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Speaker 1: to move quickly, and really jumped right to getting a

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Speaker 1: couple of our top retailers to share that mindset. Once

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Speaker 1: we had that, the conviction within ourselves, the right to

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Speaker 1: win for our brand, the confidence of consumer adoption, and

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Speaker 1: then all kind of validated with retailers nodding their heads,

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Speaker 1: Then you have to ask yourself, what would get us

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Speaker 1: in the way of going quickly? And the answer is

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Speaker 1: probably just our own fear, our own reservations. And then

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Speaker 1: it becomes really like an emotional and psychological conversation with

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Speaker 1: your teams to make them feel safe and reassured in

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Speaker 1: taking that risk.

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Speaker 4: I love that you said that because while you were talking,

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Speaker 4: I was thinking about, and this is an extreme word,

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Speaker 4: but I find… When people are entering periods of change

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Speaker 4: where you’re trying to change the culture, it’s not just

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Speaker 4: the job that they’re within, but it’s their entire career

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Speaker 4: history of PTSD. And you kind of have to like

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Speaker 4: undo all of that, which can be a large responsibility

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Speaker 4: and take a lot of time. So the fact that

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Speaker 4: you hit it on the mental factor of this, I

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Speaker 4: think is so key.

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Speaker 1: And I think to the point you’re making, in a

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Speaker 1: macro environment, Right.

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Speaker 2: Where people are.

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Speaker 1: Struggling with conditions of the world, challenges in their own household.

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Speaker 1: Oftentimes people rely on getting up and going to work

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Speaker 1: every day as being something predictable. And we just don’t

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Speaker 1: have the luxury of minimizing change to enable comfort because

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Speaker 1: status quo is one of the riskiest things that we

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Speaker 1: can do in this environment. So as leaders, this is

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Speaker 1: the most, and I would like to feel I’ve always

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Speaker 1: had intentionality about providing psychological and emotional safety, but I

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Speaker 1: think it’s even more critical as leaders in this environment.

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Speaker 1: If you’re asking people to dig deep, take risks, do

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Speaker 1: maybe scary things in their professional life, you have to

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Speaker 1: be conscious that there might be aspects of their personal

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Speaker 1: life where they’re struggling already with change management or struggling

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Speaker 1: with other circumstances. So I think even just being more

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Speaker 1: in tune and more intentional about providing that emotional safety

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Speaker 1: is very important.

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Speaker 4: So you just talked about the dichotomy of an employee,

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Speaker 4: which is their personal and their professional lives. And as

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Speaker 4: a leader, seeing them as a whole person, taking that example,

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Speaker 4: now bringing it to driving revenue, like driving top line revenue.

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Speaker 4: At the end of the day, you are responsible for

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Speaker 4: business performance. And, you know, Sarah and I have been

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Speaker 4: witness to this, but often the driving sales and building

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Speaker 4: brands that stand the test of time, people feel like

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Speaker 4: those two things are at odds with each other. And

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Speaker 4: so where do you see companies go wrong in thinking

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Speaker 4: about the commercial and the brand building model and how

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Speaker 4: they should function together?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And I will answer that by saying, when I say

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Speaker 1: companies go wrong, I don’t want this to sound like

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Speaker 1: an indictment on other companies and other people. I can

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Speaker 1: articulate this because I’ve gotten it wrong at various points

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Speaker 1: in my career. I do think it comes down to,

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Speaker 1: at times, there’s a lack of shared definition of success

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Speaker 1: at times between traditional brand building metrics and commercial metrics.

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Speaker 1: So what I mean by that, if we think of

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Speaker 1: like a If you were a traditional, you know, academic

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Speaker 1: brand marketer, you’re focused on awareness, equity health scores. These

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Speaker 1: are things that are based on consumer perception, not consumer behavior.

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Speaker 1: So we have to make sure that in addition to

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Speaker 1: bolstering consumer perception of brands, I’m not minimizing the importance

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Speaker 1: of equity health scores. It has to be coupled with

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Speaker 1: contemplation for driving growth. Key commercial metrics. Distribution on shelf.

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Speaker 1: What is your breadth and depth of distribution? Your SKUs,

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Speaker 1: your numbers of stores. Do you have price competitiveness, which

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Speaker 1: is not static. You could have been price competitive last

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Speaker 1: year and not this year, even though you didn’t change anything.

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Speaker 1: The world just changed around you. your merchandising quality, getting

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Speaker 1: more difficult in an environment where retailers are more frugal

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Speaker 1: about how they spend their labor costs, all in service

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Speaker 1: of driving volume-led top-line growth, which ultimately measures consumer behavior,

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Speaker 1: not consumer intention. So bringing those together, consumer perception and

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Speaker 1: intention with consumer behavior. Now, insurgent brands have a bit

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Speaker 1: of an advantage here in that there’s really not a

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Speaker 1: choice to make because your starting point is securing physical availability,

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Speaker 1: driving velocities at shelf through trial generation so that that

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Speaker 1: distribution you’ve worked so hard to get is sustainable and

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Speaker 1: then eventually becomes ubiquitous. And then in time, you focus

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Speaker 1: on those higher order metrics such as repeat, loyalty, mental availability.

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Speaker 2: So I’m And by the way.

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Speaker 1: I just said that applies to insurgent brands, but that

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Speaker 1: can apply also to re-contemplating the path for a mature

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Speaker 1: iconic brand. Is there a point in time where you

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Speaker 1: reset and say, okay, let’s take stock in our distribution footprint,

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Speaker 1: our price competitiveness, even though for decades we may have

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Speaker 1: had anthem campaigns on air to drive equity perception. So

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Speaker 1: It’s important to ensure that brand building initiatives are in

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Speaker 1: service of driving marketplace and financial outcomes. And that in

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Speaker 1: a brand hierarchy of needs, no matter where you are

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Speaker 1: in your life stage, that those key commercial metrics are

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Speaker 1: the foundation of the pyramid.

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Speaker 2: So back to where we started.

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Speaker 1: I think we can get it wrong if we don’t

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Speaker 1: think of traditional brand building and consumer metrics in concert.

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Speaker 3: How do you think about that? Because you talk about

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Speaker 3: the criticality of the, obviously, physical availability, the criticality of

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Speaker 3: brands today in light of the massive pressure from private label.

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Speaker 3: What’s the RQB? Like, what’s the real reason to believe

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Speaker 3: that people should buy brands today in light of so

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Speaker 3: much pressure on consumers’ wallets?

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Speaker 1: I love to ask that question to our key marketers because…

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Speaker 1: If you are responsible for brand, you should be able

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Speaker 1: to answer that question and have a point of view

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Speaker 1: in order to ensure the security of your brand for

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Speaker 1: the long term. So for some context, for your listeners,

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Speaker 1: I do tend to have a lot of conversations about

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Speaker 1: Reyes and building that brand from 80 million to a billion.

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Speaker 1: It’s a compelling story. I love talking about it. But

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Speaker 1: I have had the privilege of leading or being a

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Speaker 1: part of four brands, all four of which are over

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Speaker 1: 100 years old and over a billion dollars, which is Smucker’s,

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Speaker 1: Folgers Coffee, Bird’s Eye Vegetables, and now Campbell’s. And three

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Speaker 1: of them actually have very iconic taglines. You go to

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Speaker 1: a cocktail party, say, I work on Smucker’s, people play

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Speaker 1: back to you the tagline, much like Campbell’s, mm-mm, good.

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Speaker 2: So That’s the context.

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Speaker 1: I have a deep passion for those iconic brands and

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Speaker 1: leading them into the.

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Speaker 2: Next chapter of growth.

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Speaker 1: The responsibility and the burden on those brands to continuously

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Speaker 1: evolve to the changing needs and wants of consumers in

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Speaker 1: order to minimize the need for private brands. So if

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Speaker 1: you’re looking at a category… Where private brands have flourished,

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Speaker 1: I would argue, if we hold up the mirror, it’s

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Speaker 1: probably because traditional brands have failed consumers along the way.

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Speaker 1: And commoditization is an outcome of a brand’s failure to

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Speaker 1: continuously evolve and remain agile and responsive to changing consumer needs.

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Speaker 1: So Bird’s Eye, as an example, was in the category

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Speaker 1: frozen vegetables. The most commoditized category I’ve ever worked on,

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Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, there’s no trade secrets on

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Speaker 1: broccoli and peas, right? And private label was the largest

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Speaker 1: player in the category. Reinvigorating bird’s eye was not about

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Speaker 1: educating people that vegetables are good for you or about

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Speaker 1: making the perfect floret of broccoli. Reinvigorating bird’s eye was

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Speaker 1: about addressing the number one consumer barrier that competition had not,

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Speaker 1: which is, I don’t like how vegetables taste. And so

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Speaker 1: being able to have a thought leadership position and overcoming

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Speaker 1: that barrier was is not something that private label, with

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Speaker 1: its fragmentation and the role it played in the category,

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Speaker 1: had the ability to do. And that is where we

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Speaker 1: were able to break through and demonstrate to retailers that

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Speaker 1: brands had a role in the category. But I do

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Speaker 1: think to be stewards for the category, we have to

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Speaker 1: give the appropriate and deserved recognition. to the role that

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Speaker 1: private label plays. And if that role is growing at

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Speaker 1: the expense of, you know, we’re diminishing relevance for brands,

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Speaker 1: then that’s our responsibility as brand leaders to fix that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think what you’re doing with cooking sauce

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Speaker 3: is just that in and of itself is just changing

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Speaker 3: the face of the aisle in and of itself, staying

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Speaker 3: in the soup aisle, still being a sauce and acknowledging

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Speaker 3: what it is, but acknowledging that only Campbell’s can be

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Speaker 3: bringing it is probably a really good representation of that.

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Speaker 3: When you’re Rao’s and congratulations on it being a billion

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Speaker 3: dollar brand, freaking awesome. But when you are Rao’s and

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Speaker 3: you’ve got so many unique elements to, I’m not giving

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Speaker 3: away the secret recipe, but You know, the sourcing, the

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Speaker 3: whole end-to-end of RAOs, that’s harder to replicate. When you’re

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Speaker 3: in more of a commoditized business, it does change the game.

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Speaker 3: I think your Burzai example is phenomenal.

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Speaker 4: One of your insights, you said, like, essentially, I’m going

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Speaker 4: to boil it down. Brands can get lazy. And they

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Speaker 4: need to take responsibility for… Not Campbell’s brands, baby.

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Speaker 5: No, no.

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Speaker 4: But they need to take responsibility for not innovating. So

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Speaker 4: let’s talk about innovation. Innovation can be really expensive. It

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Speaker 4: could take a whole long time. And the world is

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Speaker 4: changing at a speed that is completely unprecedented. So when

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Speaker 4: you think about product innovation, I love hearing some of

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Speaker 4: your lessons from what you’ve been through. How do you

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Speaker 4: think people today should approach product innovation in such a

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Speaker 4: volatile world with such major stakeholders between brand manufacturer and retailer, consumer,

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Speaker 4: and even in some industries, there could be a third

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Speaker 4: party because of regulation.

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Speaker 1: Three basic principles come to mind in terms of how

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Speaker 1: you approach innovation.

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Speaker 2: First, and this seems so obvious, but I’ve gotten it wrong.

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Speaker 2: I’ve been a part of companies that got it wrong.

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Speaker 1: You have to start with a consumer-led insight. You have

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Speaker 1: to start with fulfilling an unmet need, not what can

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Speaker 1: we make in our plants and how can we convince

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Speaker 1: consumers they need it? Which again, doesn’t sound like a 400.

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Speaker 2: Level class in college.

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Speaker 1: It sounds very basic, but it’s actually a pitfall for

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Speaker 1: many companies and brands. So starting with what is the

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Speaker 1: consumer-led insight? What is the need we are fulfilling that

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Speaker 1: is unmet today? Secondly is right to win.

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Speaker 2: I do think.

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Speaker 1: As an industry and companies I’ve been a part of,

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Speaker 1: we’re pretty good at talking about the brand’s right to win.

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Speaker 1: Often overlooked is, I will call it like the structural

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Speaker 1: right to win, particularly with route to market. You may

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Speaker 1: have a brand that has the right to win in

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Speaker 1: a particular channel, in a particular geography with a certain

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Speaker 1: consumer cohort.

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Speaker 2: You still have to have the mechanisms to get there.

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Speaker 1: That product from point A to point B to drive

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Speaker 1: back to like the point on physical availability, having the

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Speaker 1: right pricing structure, et cetera. So the right to win

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Speaker 1: for the brand, as well as I’ll call it the

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Speaker 1: route to market. And then third, and you mentioned this,

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Speaker 1: that is, uh, sufficient resources to drive awareness and trial, right?

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Speaker 1: Companies are very pressured or P & Ls are pressured.

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Speaker 1: In some cases, certain businesses struggling to have investment sufficiency

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Speaker 1: to protect the core or elevate the core. So then

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Speaker 1: to burden a P & L or a business with

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Speaker 1: also supporting innovation on top of it can be challenging.

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Speaker 1: It’s especially expensive, as we know, to drive innovation if

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Speaker 1: you’re trying to create a new consumer behavior.

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Speaker 2: So resource deficiency is critical.

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Speaker 1: I have, unfortunately, been a part of innovation launches where

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Speaker 1: we had the consumer insight, had the right to win

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Speaker 1: both brand and structurally, but failed to have the right

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Speaker 1: investment to drive consumer awareness and trial. A fourth one,

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Speaker 1: which is less than, I guess you could argue it

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Speaker 1: might be the fourth innovation principle, is innovation. Customer partnership.

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Speaker 1: We still have a gatekeeper who has to nod, nod along.

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Speaker 1: And retailers, we’re asking them for shelf space. Now, certainly

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Speaker 1: the digital shelf has made those barriers of like shelf space.

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Speaker 2: They’ve reduced the barriers a bit.

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Speaker 1: But having retailer support from your top trusted partners is also,

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Speaker 1: in my experience, very, very critical to the ultimate success

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Speaker 1: of an innovation, particularly if you’re doing something very new

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Speaker 1: that requires patience.

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Speaker 2: You have to ask from the outset for patience. You

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Speaker 2: can’t just expect it.

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Speaker 4: I feel the framework you just cited also could be

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00:24:33,600 –> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 4: applied to other categories. Like as you were talking, I

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00:24:35,940 –> 00:24:37,860
Speaker 4: was thinking through the lens of software because that’s my

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Speaker 4: business and everything you said is accurate. Well, Risa, we

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Speaker 4: got to ask you our famous last question, which is

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00:24:44,830 –> 00:24:46,290
Speaker 4: what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: So a little context for your audience. I am a

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00:24:52,330 –> 00:24:56,790
Speaker 1: Caucasian woman. I do not identify as a member of

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Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community. I grew up in a household with

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00:25:01,800 –> 00:25:03,220
Speaker 1: two English-speaking parents.

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00:25:03,400 –> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 2: We had, I would say, a middle-income lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: I haven’t had the burden of being required to be brave.

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Speaker 1: to get through life because that’s what comes with privilege.

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00:25:18,140 –> 00:25:21,860
Speaker 1: The way I describe myself is to ground us in, yes,

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00:25:21,920 –> 00:25:25,659
Speaker 1: I am a woman, but inherently I consider myself a

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00:25:25,720 –> 00:25:29,610
Speaker 1: privileged person and I haven’t encountered anything as a human

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00:25:29,660 –> 00:25:34,230
Speaker 1: walking on earth that required me to have bravery for

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00:25:34,290 –> 00:25:39,649
Speaker 1: survival or even to thrive. So I consider it my

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00:25:39,869 –> 00:25:47,140
Speaker 1: privilege responsibility to be brave. And that’s what comes with privilege.

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00:25:47,200 –> 00:25:49,930
Speaker 1: If you are privileged, you have a responsibility to be brave.

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00:25:50,869 –> 00:25:53,470
Speaker 1: and be a voice for people that don’t have the

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00:25:53,510 –> 00:25:55,950
Speaker 1: bandwidth to be brave for others because they’re just trying

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00:25:55,990 –> 00:25:59,929
Speaker 1: to be brave to survive. And it’s hard for me

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Speaker 1: to articulate like a moment or an event that I.

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00:26:04,030 –> 00:26:07,010
Speaker 2: Feel like I could speak to that bravery.

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00:26:07,030 –> 00:26:09,510
Speaker 1: But I think of bravery more as like you get

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00:26:09,550 –> 00:26:12,110
Speaker 1: up every day, you brush your teeth, you drink your coffee,

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00:26:12,250 –> 00:26:14,530
Speaker 1: and you put on your bravery. Like bravery is something

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00:26:14,550 –> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: that that you wear. And I approach every day like that.

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Speaker 1: And at this point in my career, it’s a responsibility,

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00:26:25,960 –> 00:26:30,140
Speaker 1: but it’s also my purpose, is how to be brave

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00:26:30,820 –> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: for others, especially when they can’t find that bravery.

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00:26:34,440 –> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: And it goes a little bit back to where we started.

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00:26:37,200 –> 00:26:41,850
Speaker 1: That is how I approach creating psychological and emotional safety

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Speaker 1: for the people around me, peers, sometimes leaders, and certainly

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00:26:47,109 –> 00:26:50,430
Speaker 1: the teams that work with me every day. As someone

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00:26:50,450 –> 00:26:53,109
Speaker 1: who has the privilege to see you in action, I

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00:26:53,609 –> 00:26:56,410
Speaker 1: can certainly say you definitely wear your bravery to work

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00:26:56,470 –> 00:26:58,970
Speaker 1: every day. I think that might be the most thoughtful

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00:26:59,170 –> 00:27:02,379
Speaker 1: answer we have ever had to this question. We’re at

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Speaker 1: close to 300 episodes and we’ve gotten some great answers,

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00:27:06,200 –> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: but I think this might be the most thoughtful one.

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Speaker 2: So thank you. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Risa. My pleasure. Thank you, ladies.

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Speaker 4: If you like what you heard and you want to

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00:27:16,580 –> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 4: check out more episodes from great leaders at Campbell’s, we’ve

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00:27:20,680 –> 00:27:23,869
Speaker 4: had a few over the years. But in particular, I

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00:27:23,900 –> 00:27:26,950
Speaker 4: suggest you go check out the dual episode we did

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00:27:27,070 –> 00:27:30,389
Speaker 4: with Janda Lukin and Mike Pearson. And don’t forget, tell

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00:27:30,430 –> 00:27:31,490
Speaker 4: a friend, write a review.

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00:27:31,590 –> 00:27:32,270
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

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00:27:43,980 –> 00:27:47,940
Speaker 5: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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00:27:47,960 –> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 5: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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00:27:50,780 –> 00:27:54,220
Speaker 5: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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00:27:54,270 –> 00:27:57,949
Speaker 5: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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00:27:57,990 –> 00:28:00,310
Speaker 5: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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00:28:00,369 –> 00:28:03,490
Speaker 5: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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00:28:03,690 –> 00:28:06,949
Speaker 5: we’re coming center stage and sharing the mic to experience

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00:28:06,990 –> 00:28:09,850
Speaker 5: stories of truth, insights, and visions for the future that

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00:28:09,869 –> 00:28:12,350
Speaker 5: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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00:28:12,390 –> 00:28:15,930
Speaker 5: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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00:28:16,119 –> 00:28:18,180
Speaker 5: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.