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Speaker 1: We have to be clear in terms of what our

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Speaker 1: North Star is, whether that’s from an organisation or from

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Speaker 1: a campaign or project perspective. I think having the right

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Speaker 1: people in the room at the right time is really critical.

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Speaker 1: And again, like I’m really about bringing those kind of

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Speaker 1: trust functional perspectives into the room. I think also, and

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Speaker 1: I said up front, like putting the audience at the centre,

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Speaker 1: starting with that first and where can we automate in

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Speaker 1: a thoughtful way and where can we obviously accelerate into

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Speaker 1: market the most effective way. I feel like I’m one

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Speaker 1: of the luckiest people in the world.

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Speaker 2: I’m working at Lego.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 4: And I’m Rachel Tippegraph. And this is a show that

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Speaker 4: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Free of Commerce.

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Speaker 4: Sarah, you spent a good amount of time working at

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Speaker 4: agencies throughout your career.

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Speaker 2: That I have. That I have.

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Speaker 4: Were you ever approached to build an agency within the brand,

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Speaker 4: like a brand side agency?

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Speaker 5: In fact, I was.

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Speaker 3: That trend started happening, I guess, like in earnest, probably

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Speaker 3: about 15 years ago. At least that’s the way I

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Speaker 3: look at it, especially because of areas like specialization, particularly

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Speaker 3: in social. Where, you know, you want to be closer

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Speaker 3: to the brand and you want people to have like

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Speaker 3: a really good handle on what the brand stands for.

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Speaker 2: And so creating these.

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Speaker 3: Tiger teams of like paid, earned and owned in one

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Speaker 3: environment representing the brand, you know, conceptually, first of all,

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Speaker 3: I had no interest in running that. Because then you

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Speaker 3: become part of the culture of the brands, not the

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Speaker 3: culture of the agency.

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Speaker 2: One of the main reasons.

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Speaker 3: People like to work at agency is culture. So I

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Speaker 3: didn’t have any interest in doing that. Maybe I would

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Speaker 3: have thought differently depending on the culture of the company.

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Speaker 3: But one of the biggest challenges with insourcing and creating

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Speaker 3: these agencies within the client is talent turnover.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, it’s not like you can move somebody who

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Speaker 3: works on a different brand to come work on this.

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Speaker 3: It is hard to scale unless you’ve got a really

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Speaker 3: interesting dynamic and way of working.

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Speaker 1: And I don’t know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you work with so many brands. Where have

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Speaker 3: you seen the… And how does agency model work?

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Speaker 4: For me, it’s less of a question where I see

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Speaker 4: it work and how many times have I seen it.

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Speaker 4: And I’ve only come across it a true handful of times.

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Speaker 4: Because I think for all the reasons that you just mentioned,

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Speaker 4: it’s really hard to pull off in a sustainable way.

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Speaker 2: It seems like.

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Speaker 3: There’s somebody that seems to have been able to do that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it’s still early days, which she herself will say.

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Speaker 3: But when you have a brand as iconic as Legos,

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Speaker 3: Maybe you don’t have those talent gaps because who wouldn’t

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Speaker 3: want to work for Lego?

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Speaker 4: It’s true. And with a portfolio so vast with so

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Speaker 4: many different audiences to serve, it can keep the job interesting.

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Speaker 4: So on that note, let’s bring Jen onto the show.

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Speaker 4: The VP of our Lego agency, Homerson Digital. within the

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Speaker 4: Lego group.

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Speaker 3: What a title, Jen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s pretty impressive, isn’t it? It’s a mouthful.

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Speaker 4: It’s a mouthful, so you must be busy.

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Speaker 2: I’m definitely that. That’s for sure.

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Speaker 4: Hopefully most of our listeners know Lego. I think that

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Speaker 4: they probably do. But what they probably don’t know is

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Speaker 4: that Lego, everything that everyone knows around creativity when it

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Speaker 4: comes to the brand, there’s a key reason probably why

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Speaker 4: it’s such a core ethos. And I’m guessing that one

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Speaker 4: of the reasons is how they approach creativity internally within

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Speaker 4: the organization. And Lego has this fascinating agency within the

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Speaker 4: brand model, which you’re a part of. And so I

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Speaker 4: think probably a lot of our listeners have toyed around

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Speaker 4: with this idea of in-housing and really having an agency

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Speaker 4: internally to service all their needs. So can you explain

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Speaker 4: to us how your team operates within this structure and

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Speaker 4: And why Lego believes that bringing creativity, commerce and retail

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Speaker 4: thinking all together can create perhaps an advantage for the business,

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Speaker 4: as opposed to how maybe a lot of other people

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Speaker 4: approach it, which is outsource these things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%.

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Speaker 1: Look, I’ll start and say, I think the reality is

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Speaker 1: that the audience has never been separated, like in terms

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Speaker 1: of creativity, commerce and retail. They think of us as

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Speaker 1: creativity transactions, it’s all one. Only organizations really have separated

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Speaker 1: them out. And so what we’ve done at Lego is

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Speaker 1: deliberately bring those worlds closer together. So in 2025, Ola

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Speaker 1: Commerce was, so our Lego agency, Commerce, was created. And

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Speaker 1: that was really to strengthen how we show up across shopper, retail, e-commerce.

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Speaker 1: But importantly, really to evolve our thinking from channels to

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Speaker 1: thinking more connected experiences. And this allows us, as you said,

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Speaker 1: like from an in-house perspective, it allows us to be

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Speaker 1: closer to our brand partners and really I hope to

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Speaker 1: be a big part of our leading the way in

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Speaker 1: terms of how Lego transforms its marketing capabilities and hopefully

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Speaker 1: really leading in creative commerce globally. And just going back,

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Speaker 1: so that’s sort of how our team works, but the

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Speaker 1: value I think of having this in-house agency is is

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Speaker 1: that we have this deep brand understanding. Obviously, we’re sitting

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Speaker 1: with our business partners day to day. So understanding the purpose,

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Speaker 1: the brand ethos, the audiences, I think really accelerating our

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Speaker 1: speed and collaboration because we are with those partners. And

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Speaker 1: then finally, and what I’m really passionate about, that we

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Speaker 1: have this ability to be connected as we think about

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Speaker 1: that ecosystem. So thinking about creative storytelling across the whole

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Speaker 1: Lego business ecosystem.

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Speaker 2: Is easier, I think, when we’re embedded in the business.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree about the connectivity to the business. And

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Speaker 3: there’s nothing like stronger than being able to represent the

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Speaker 3: brand when you’re in Copenhagen or just among the others

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Speaker 3: that are living and breathing and building, especially given the

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Speaker 3: iconic nature of the brand. But it’s hard not to

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Speaker 3: bring up something like AI here, Actually, if nothing else

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Speaker 3: about the operationalizing of it all, right? Because you’ve got

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Speaker 3: to work with all of your internal stakeholders. That’s the

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Speaker 3: benefit of having this Lego agency. At the same time,

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Speaker 3: you do have agency partners. How is AI either helping

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Speaker 3: or is it too early days or where have you

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Speaker 3: seen the way AI works to impact your team at

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Speaker 3: Lego from even from a workflow optimization perspective?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, we are early days. Obviously, there’s a

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Speaker 1: lot of noise out there and we’re being thoughtful. But ultimately,

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Speaker 1: you know, we are a very creative business and we’ll

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Speaker 1: always believe in the value of human creativity. But we

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Speaker 1: need to be thinking about making our processes smarter, more

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Speaker 1: automated and hopefully effective as we are actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: global brand. So, of course, we’re using shared design environments

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Speaker 1: and tools. We’re collaborating on what GEO, sorry, or AEO

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Speaker 1: needs to look like as we think about impacting the

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Speaker 1: creative experiences that we’re building. And I’d say our priority

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Speaker 1: is really freeing our people’s time so that they can

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Speaker 1: be as creative as possible, impact those big cultural moments

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Speaker 1: where it matters, and hopefully really be thinking about that

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Speaker 1: full ecosystem. So really thinking about how we need to

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Speaker 1: show up in those different spaces and places. Again, early days,

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Speaker 1: but a lot more to come.

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Speaker 2: Even if it’s.

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Speaker 3: Not AI, the idea to your point of responding to

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Speaker 3: culture or particular moments and things like that, how do

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Speaker 3: you think through the orchestration of it all when there

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Speaker 3: are so many stakeholders and quick decisioning is critical? How,

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Speaker 3: as a leader, do you think about what needs to

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Speaker 3: be true to make that happen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that’s a really good question.

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Speaker 1: I think we have to be clear in terms of

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Speaker 1: what our North Star is, whether that’s from an organisation

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Speaker 1: or from a campaign or project perspective. I think having

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Speaker 1: the right people in the room at the right time

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Speaker 1: is really critical. And again, like I’m really about bringing

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Speaker 1: those kind of trust functional perspectives into the room. I

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Speaker 1: think also, and I said up front, like putting the

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Speaker 1: audience at the centre, you know, starting with that first

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Speaker 1: and where can we automate in a thoughtful way and

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Speaker 1: where can we obviously accelerate into market the most effective way.

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Speaker 4: So Jen, now that you have been on the other side,

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Speaker 4: brand side, but agency within, you also have an amazing

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Speaker 4: career working at some of the big agency holding companies.

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Speaker 4: Do you think one model is better over the other?

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Speaker 1: So I don’t know that one model is better over

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Speaker 1: the other. I will say, I feel like I’m one

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Speaker 1: of the luckiest people in the world. I’m working at Lego, right?

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Speaker 1: So if I had to have said any of the

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Speaker 1: brands and businesses I wanted to work for, Lego was

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Speaker 1: in the top one probably for sure. I think in

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Speaker 1: terms of how we work, it’s a privilege. You are

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Speaker 1: really side by side with your business partners. You’re first

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Speaker 1: in in terms of planning and market insights and, again,

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Speaker 1: going back to the audience. So I feel like it

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Speaker 1: is a privilege to be in-house. Obviously, there’s benefits of

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Speaker 1: being on the outside world. You’re working with multiple businesses

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Speaker 1: and brands and products, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: But early days, again, for me right now, and I’m

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Speaker 2: loving it.

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Speaker 4: So within your role, you are overseeing experiences that span Lego.com,

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Speaker 4: the Lego physical retail stores, and third-party retailers like Amazon Transparency.

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Speaker 1: Walmart.

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Speaker 4: First, how do you think about the role of each

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Speaker 4: one of those channels? And then knowing it’s Lego, how

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Speaker 4: do you think about trying to have a cohesive brand

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Speaker 4: experience across those channels?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, aren’t I lucky when I think

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Speaker 1: about all of those channels and having the ability to

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Speaker 1: influence those? It’s a really great question and the answer

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Speaker 1: almost sits within it, to be honest. I think, again,

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Speaker 1: starting with the audience, making sure that we’re thinking about

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Speaker 1: what are those journeys, what are those ecosystems.

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Speaker 2: Why are people going to be in.

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Speaker 1: Certain places and what do we need to achieve is

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Speaker 1: the first place that I think we need to start

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Speaker 1: and also being really choiceful and deliberate about not having

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Speaker 1: channels compete with each other. There’s a reason. that we

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Speaker 1: want people to go into our Lego stores. And at

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Speaker 1: the same time, obviously our very valued partners play an

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Speaker 1: important role as well. So it’s about actually, I think,

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Speaker 1: knowing why our audiences will be there or who our

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Speaker 1: audience will be, but also, you know, making those experiences

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Speaker 1: specific to the channel. So again, as we think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, from a Lego perspective, it’s really about thinking

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Speaker 1: about that ecosystem and Thinking again, as I said up front,

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Speaker 1: like brand moments and transaction moments aren’t mutually exclusive. How

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Speaker 1: are we going to show up together so we can

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Speaker 1: meet our audience and consumers as and when they want

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Speaker 1: to interact with Lego? It also for us requires having

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Speaker 1: the right talent at the table.

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Speaker 2: So as we’re.

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Speaker 1: Building out even our model right now, making sure that

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Speaker 1: we have those specialisms for people that understand our key accounts,

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Speaker 1: people that understand dot com. people that understand retail innovation

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Speaker 1: and experience. Going on a bit of a ramble, but

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Speaker 1: a great example for me right now is SmartPlay that

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Speaker 1: you will have seen has launched. So there’s SmartBrick and

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Speaker 1: it’s obviously a new product, new launch. We really had

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Speaker 1: to lean into showing up differently, even from a commerce

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Speaker 1: ecosystem perspective, video matters, like actually explaining What does this

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Speaker 1: product do?

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Speaker 2: How do you interact with it?

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Speaker 1: Making PDPs a lot more immersive than they’ve been before.

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Speaker 1: But then, you know, in store, making sure that we

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Speaker 1: play on brick and again, demos in store really interact

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Speaker 1: with you so that people understand the product.

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Speaker 2: I don’t know if I’ve answered your question.

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Speaker 1: I’ve gone on a rant, but just to say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we really have to be thoughtful around what

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Speaker 1: is the product?

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Speaker 2: What is kind of our campaign? And then obviously, who

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Speaker 2: are our audiences and where do we need to show up?

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Speaker 4: Does the organization have a preference between D2C and third-party retail?

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Speaker 2: I don’t think there’s a preference. I think, again, they

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Speaker 2: have a role to play.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, our Lego store and lego.com are incredibly important.

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Speaker 2: They’re our flagship. They’re our brand lighthouse.

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Speaker 1: We have money-can’t-buy experiences in there, and they need to

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Speaker 1: be beautiful for our audience and consumers. But I think

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Speaker 1: third-party retail, again, is a core part of our ecosystem

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Speaker 1: and and an incredibly important part of how we show up.

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Speaker 3: Now that we’ve got a lay of the land of

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Speaker 3: the different channels and designing these experiences that are right

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Speaker 3: for the channel, let’s talk about it from the perspective

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Speaker 3: of the consumer. You guys have been, you have long

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Speaker 3: product cycle innovation and like you guys plan very far out,

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Speaker 3: but there’s also short-term things that end up coming up.

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Speaker 3: And you guys always seem to be at that intersection

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Speaker 3: of culture while still having these, you know, very lengthy

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Speaker 3: planning cycles. So it just shows a high degree of agility.

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Speaker 3: In your role, both with this agency and commerce, like

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Speaker 3: all these different things kind of happening, how do you

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Speaker 3: balance that long-term brand planning cycles with the real-time nature

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Speaker 3: of how to be aligned with the consumer?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it’s a really great question.

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Speaker 1: And I think it’s about two things being true at

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Speaker 1: the same time, honestly, like we need to separate out

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Speaker 1: the needs of what needs to be fixed and then

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Speaker 1: what really needs to be flexible. And obviously for the

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Speaker 1: Lego business, we have that long-term horizon, as you said,

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Speaker 1: from a campaign perspective, from an IP perspective, big global storytelling.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, everything around it, as you said, like how

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Speaker 1: we show up from a culture perspective in commerce and media,

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Speaker 1: we need to be dynamic. So as I think about that,

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Speaker 1: it’s again, making sure that we have the right team

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Speaker 1: expertise at the table so that we can actually execute

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Speaker 1: where we need to. But at the same time, it’s

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Speaker 1: about making sure that we’re planning in a dynamic way.

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Speaker 2: So I think about Stranger Things.

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Speaker 1: We actually launched with the season five finale. So that

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Speaker 1: actually made sense. But also there’s things that are outside

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Speaker 1: campaign planning that we can be very active in to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we’re showing up in the right way

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Speaker 1: and learning in the right way. So whether that’s from

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Speaker 1: a live shopping perspective or experimenting, I mentioned PDPs, but

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Speaker 1: I go back to that again, looking at.

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Speaker 2: Com.

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Speaker 1: Knowing that we have stores opening regularly, how are we

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, experimenting from an experience and innovations

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Speaker 1: place there. So again, I think there’s a bit of

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Speaker 1: a yin and a yang, but we’re definitely working through

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Speaker 1: how we can, I guess, be as agile as possible

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Speaker 1: in the commerce space.

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Speaker 4: You’ve talked about some of these cultural moments, like Stranger Things,

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Speaker 4: for example, and I’ve been noticing Lego has been doing

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Speaker 4: more and more real physical experiences. whether it’s CES or

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Speaker 4: immersive retail. And it feels like you might be going

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Speaker 4: after adults, not just kids. And I don’t know if

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Speaker 4: there’s like a demographic cutoff point, but when you think

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Speaker 4: about how physical experiences are driving commerce, what’s the organization

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Speaker 4: going after? Like, are these brand building moments? Are these

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Speaker 4: sales moments? Like, how do we think about it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, again, I don’t think they’re completely separate, if I’m

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Speaker 1: being honest, but I think we’re at an inflection point

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Speaker 1: where we’re seeing that our consumers are wanting more IRL experiences.

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Speaker 1: I saw a stat last week, actually, I think 64%

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Speaker 1: of our Gen Zs would prefer to be in-store than online.

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Speaker 1: That means we need to show up, but I don’t

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Speaker 1: think that every experience needs to necessarily, when we’re thinking

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Speaker 1: about commerce and storytelling, that every experience needs to drive

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Speaker 1: an immediate purchase, but they play an important role in commerce,

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Speaker 1: whether they buy in-store or not. I think we need

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we are thinking about it as

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Speaker 1: part of our ecosystem and also making an amazing experience.

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Speaker 1: I think they build an emotional connection that provides long-term

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Speaker 1: value even if we don’t see the sale immediately then

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Speaker 1: and there. And also we know when people are in store,

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Speaker 1: they’re actually creating content. They’re creating this whole other universe

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Speaker 1: that influences our commerce experience online.

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Speaker 4: And does this work in all markets? Like Lego is global.

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Speaker 4: Do you use the same playbook?

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Speaker 1: Obviously, we have a global playbook, as you say, but

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Speaker 1: we also localise heavily. I think if you look at

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Speaker 1: market to market, obviously, Asia are ahead and retail is really,

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Speaker 1: you know, treated as more entertainment. They’re changing that experience frequently.

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Speaker 1: It’s deeply immersive. Obviously, again, I use that example of

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Speaker 1: kind of that audience kind of social kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: second experience coming through online. We definitely take inspiration from

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Speaker 1: Asia as we look into our other markets. The other

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Speaker 1: thing that I’ve been thinking about and, you know, not

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Speaker 1: new thought, but when we think about experiences, our audiences

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Speaker 1: aren’t just comparing us to category or other products. They’re

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Speaker 1: comparing us to the types of experiences that they’re just

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Speaker 1: having in their life.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, we think.

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Speaker 1: About the Sphere or like the Eros tour with the Swifties.

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Speaker 1: We need to be showing up in, I think, a

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Speaker 1: whole kind of leveled up way as we think about

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Speaker 1: those immersive worlds and experiences. These are the expectations that

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Speaker 1: are on, especially, I would say, iconic brands and businesses

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Speaker 1: like Lego.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that I find fascinating is

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Speaker 3: when I ask other marketers what brands they’re jealous of,

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Speaker 3: so many say Lego. So I have to ask you,

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Speaker 3: what brand are you jealous of?

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Speaker 1: This is a really weird thing to say, but I

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Speaker 1: don’t feel like I’m jealous of any brand right now.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, again, you know, I said it up front,

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Speaker 1: I feel just so privileged to be working on Lego

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Speaker 1: right now. Even on the, you know, the outside lane,

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Speaker 1: but on the inside lane, I’m constantly just so excited

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Speaker 1: about what’s coming through. We mentioned kind of the retail

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Speaker 1: experience in Asia, like obviously like the Gentle Monsters, I’m

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Speaker 1: not jealous, but they’re like, they’re pretty cool. and iconic how,

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Speaker 1: you know, a sunglasses brand can suddenly be this entertainment kind.

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Speaker 2: Of experience brand and product.

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Speaker 1: But, again, I just really do feel like there’s just

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Speaker 1: so much that we’re excited about in Lego.

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Speaker 4: Well, Jen, we’ve got to ask you our famous last question,

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Speaker 4: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, look, I’ve got to say, other than jumping

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Speaker 1: out of planes, I think, honestly, moving countries three times.

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Speaker 1: So I’ve lived in New York and London and now

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Speaker 1: in Copenhagen. And I think, you know, not only was

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Speaker 1: that brave from my perspective, but, you know, there’s bravery

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Speaker 1: of others around you, supporting you through your kind of

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Speaker 1: new endeavors.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, very professional and personal.

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Speaker 4: Can you stack rank what your favorite is?

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Speaker 2: I’m loving Copenhagen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But I lived in New York for 12 years. and

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Speaker 2: I left London because of Lego. So I don’t know.

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Speaker 2: I’ve loved them all.

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Speaker 4: The New Yorker has to ask. Well, Jen, we’re so

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Speaker 4: appreciative for you sharing insights of what’s going on at Lego.

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Speaker 4: And we will continue to be watching all the creativity

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Speaker 4: that comes out of that organization.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 4: If you like what you heard and you want to

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Speaker 4: go think about the toy category in general, though Lego

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Speaker 4: would probably disguise themselves not as toys, go check out

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Speaker 4: an episode we did last year with the CMO of

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Speaker 4: MJA Entertainment, Josh. And if you like what you heard,

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Speaker 4: please share on LinkedIn.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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Speaker 5: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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Speaker 5: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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Speaker 5: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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Speaker 5: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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Speaker 5: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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Speaker 5: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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Speaker 5: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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Speaker 5: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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Speaker 5: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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Speaker 5: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.