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Speaker 1: We need humans in this process because who can really

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Speaker 1: judge the quality of content? Humans. But when AI has

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Speaker 1: been really useful, if you kind of break down the

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Speaker 1: content development process, it’s been how do you breathe faster?

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Speaker 1: Can you produce more things at scale? Can you do

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Speaker 1: voiceover and copywriting and transcreation and all of these things

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Speaker 1: and get more for the same price for more for

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Speaker 1: less in a much faster time? But the ultimate judge

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Speaker 1: of quality is going to be human driving that process.

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Speaker 1: Do I think at some point in the future, you

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Speaker 1: get more agentic models doing more of the work? I

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Speaker 1: think yes.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 3: And I’m Rachel Tippegraph. And this is a show that

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Speaker 3: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Free of Commerce.

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Speaker 3: Sarah, let’s set the stage. It’s the 1980s in Queens.

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Speaker 1: Where are you?

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Speaker 4: Depends which part of the 80s. Well, in the fall

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Speaker 4: of 88, I started high school in Queens.

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Speaker 2: And I had a very, very.

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Speaker 4: I think below the poverty line allowance. Like, I mean,

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Speaker 4: not like the general poverty line, but among other 13

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Speaker 4: year old girls, my parents did not give me enough

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Speaker 4: money like for, you know, lunch, transportation, whatever. I did

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Speaker 4: a decent amount of babysitting. I sold barrettes. I designed

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Speaker 4: and sold barrettes.

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Speaker 3: So for people who don’t know, clips in your hair?

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Speaker 2: Oh, hair clips, right.

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Speaker 4: Like, I’m sorry, I put myself in the 80s and

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Speaker 4: I used the 80s lingo. What was Rachel like in

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Speaker 4: the 90s in Jersey?

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Speaker 3: Also trying to make money. Like literally selling anything in sight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Whether it was baked goods, creepy crawlers, my services, which

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Speaker 3: was essentially at that time teaching people how to rollerblade.

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Speaker 3: That was the thing I could do really well.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 3: Really just hawking my time and figuring out how to

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Speaker 3: make a dollar.

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Speaker 2: I think it says a lot.

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Speaker 4: One of the many in the rotation of interview questions

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Speaker 4: I have is, you know, what was your first job?

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Speaker 4: But like your cash job. When you hear the stories

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Speaker 4: of people who didn’t just do the standard job, You

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Speaker 4: kind of understand what they’ve got going on. And it

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Speaker 4: doesn’t matter what kind of background they come from. It’s

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Speaker 4: whether or not you’ve got either that hustle or drive

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Speaker 4: or creativity or something. And what’s interesting about Depeche is

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Speaker 4: that he said he started his retail experience at the

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Speaker 4: age of six.

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Speaker 2: Now, you know, I don’t know much about child labor.

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Speaker 2: That does sound a little early.

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Speaker 3: But his parents were his employers.

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Speaker 2: His parents were his employers.

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Speaker 4: I don’t know that that sounds entirely better, but it

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Speaker 4: certainly sounds slightly better.

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Speaker 2: But when you’ve got the bug, you’ve got the bug,

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Speaker 2: you know? Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Well, Dipesh, who Sarah and I knew from his Unilever days,

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Speaker 3: is now going to talk to us about moving over

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Speaker 3: into more of the OTC pharma category and how his

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Speaker 3: young self has shaped his future self. So on that note,

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Speaker 3: let’s bring him onto the show.

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Speaker 4: Today, we are happy to have Dipesh Patel, Senior Director

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Speaker 4: of Transformation and E-Commerce for Global OTC, say that five

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Speaker 4: times fast, at Teva Pharmaceuticals. Deepesh, thank you so much

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Speaker 4: for joining us.

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Speaker 2: I know we’ve been waiting for a while to have

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Speaker 2: this conversation.

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Speaker 1: No, really excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

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Speaker 4: I’m really excited that we got connected and I’m excited

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Speaker 4: to get into the hood on this. But I want

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Speaker 4: to start a little bit like just talking about your background,

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Speaker 4: like your OG background, which is in.

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Speaker 2: Mathematics, which we don’t have a lot of on the show.

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Speaker 4: So how have you applied that educational background.

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Speaker 1: To your roles over your career and.

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Speaker 4: And bonus question, what classes in uni did you wish

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Speaker 4: you had taken for the job you have today?

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Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Yeah, that’s going to say a lot about me.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up in retail. My parents owned a newsagent.

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Speaker 1: We used to live above the store. And so I’ve

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Speaker 1: kind of been working in retail since I was six

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Speaker 1: or seven, having to go into the store or do

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Speaker 1: the newspapers, fill up the shelves. And so that kind

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Speaker 1: of really rooted me in numbers, and I really enjoyed that.

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Speaker 1: But also my values in hardware, entrepreneurship, customer service. And

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Speaker 1: so then you kind of take that forward and you

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Speaker 1: figure out, oh, what are you really good at? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I’m really good at numbers. So do maths at uni.

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Speaker 1: That’s the best way to utilize your skills. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: everyone can say it’s kind of a boring job. subject

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Speaker 1: or it could be if you’re not very good at it,

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Speaker 1: but I think it gives you, it’s given me four

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Speaker 1: fundamental things I think have really helped me in my career.

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Speaker 1: So the first is really constructive thinking. It really helps

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Speaker 1: my brain to, and it trained me to break down

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Speaker 1: big problems into small solvable chunks, which if you think

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Speaker 1: about it, it’s kind of what digital transformation is. It’s

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Speaker 1: a roadblocks of lots of different things as you go

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Speaker 1: through a maturity curve and over a roadmap of time.

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Speaker 1: It’s also shaped my approach to, say, ambiguity. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you’re working in e-commerce, and both of you guys

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Speaker 1: would know this for sure, this is just one problem

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Speaker 1: after another problem of what was the root cause of

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Speaker 1: the solution and how do you make things better? So

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Speaker 1: when you’re working in frameworks or performance models or operating models,

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Speaker 1: trying to weigh up options, math is all about defining variables,

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Speaker 1: isolate constraints, test scenarios, and optimise. And I think that’s

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Speaker 1: probably just naturally into the kind of way I work.

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Speaker 1: It suits me really well. And then obviously massive data

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Speaker 1: and what’s e-commerce and even the new forms of digital

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Speaker 1: marketing that isn’t data, right? So it’s a constant balance

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Speaker 1: that offers me really good signals between what is like

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Speaker 1: real truth and then what is noise and what’s in between.

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Speaker 1: So I’d say, you know, it’s given me a lot,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately it fuels my curiosity. You asked me the

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Speaker 1: question about what class I would have taken. My curiosity

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Speaker 1: sometimes takes the better of me. I do remember I

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Speaker 1: studied University College London. And in the first year, there

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Speaker 1: was kind of selectives you could take. And there was

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Speaker 1: one course on offer called The Theory of Traffic Flow.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds way different.

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Speaker 2: Say more. I want to hear all about this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I would have signed up for that. I never would

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Speaker 4: have signed up for that now, but I would take

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Speaker 4: it as a continuing ed class.

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Speaker 1: You’re kind of sitting there going, I’ll sit in this car.

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Speaker 1: The signal on top of the road goes to like

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Speaker 1: 40 miles an hour. How does all this traffic kind

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Speaker 1: of ramp up behind you and then speed up? And

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Speaker 1: why is there suddenly traffic when there’s no accident? And

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I’d love to learn about that.

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Speaker 1: And so the theory of that got in my brain

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Speaker 1: over the years. He says, this would be a great

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Speaker 1: course to take. I even convinced three or four of

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Speaker 1: my friends who I’d only known for, I’d say, the

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Speaker 1: best part of three months. Let’s go take this course. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the curiosity was way more than the actual reality of

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Speaker 1: the course. Yeah, I lasted, I think, two or three sessions.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, no, no, no, this is not

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that’s really unfortunate because I actually want to learn

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Speaker 2: that now.

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Speaker 3: Sarah and I met you not in uni, but we

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Speaker 3: met you when you were at Unilever. And now you

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Speaker 3: have this new gig at Teva. Curious what is similar

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Speaker 3: and what is different now that you’re, what, a few

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Speaker 3: months in?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s been three months now. You know, what I really,

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Speaker 1: really loved about Unilever and I found really exciting and

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Speaker 1: happy that I’m here in Teva is… They’re both really

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Speaker 1: large and they’re both very mission-driven global organizations, but also

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Speaker 1: have kind of deep heritage. So I really like that.

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Speaker 1: The other things I would say are consumers really matter

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Speaker 1: in both organizations. I think understanding consumer is really important,

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Speaker 1: but also slightly different because the motivations differ in the

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Speaker 1: different companies. And so those are, I’d say, the two

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Speaker 1: big culture is really profoundly important. important about the people

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Speaker 1: at the heart of the business. I’d say more kind

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Speaker 1: of functionally, this is on a different scale to Unilever,

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Speaker 1: but wherever you look, there are kind of pockets of

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Speaker 1: this excellent business, excellent growth, that kind of continue to

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Speaker 1: need to be harnessed consistently for global scale. And, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I look at my first three months at Teva,

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Speaker 1: I’ve seen that in our Germany business, which has nearly

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Speaker 1: a third of its business in e-commerce. And I look

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Speaker 1: at the rest of the business and it’s got a

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Speaker 1: long way to be able to reach that. And so

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Speaker 1: it’s more for me, kind of almost similar in how

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Speaker 1: you find these pockets, really get rooted into what’s working

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Speaker 1: really well and try and scale that moving.

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Speaker 2: I want to go back for a minute. I realize

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Speaker 2: you didn’t answer the bonus question.

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Speaker 4: You told me the class you took that you didn’t

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Speaker 4: love taking, but you didn’t tell me the class that

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Speaker 4: you wish you had taken.

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Speaker 1: Oh my God, yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I’m not a slave to the questions, but like

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Speaker 4: your answer was so good.

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Speaker 2: I really liked where you were going with it.

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Speaker 4: And like, there was so much that you said, like,

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Speaker 4: I love the whole thing about like math is about

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Speaker 4: like big things. You break them into small chunks. Like

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Speaker 4: that’s something that I’ve always done, but I am a

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Speaker 4: math moron.

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Speaker 2: And so when I.

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Speaker 4: Listened to everything that you were saying, I’m like, wow,

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Speaker 4: it sounds like, you know, you’ve really applied a lot

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Speaker 4: of big things. So I love the fact that you

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Speaker 4: started in retail at six, like that’s that headline. But

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Speaker 4: what is something that you wish you had learned in

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Speaker 4: uni that maybe now you’re, you might be like almost

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Speaker 4: overcompensating or trying to learn.

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Speaker 1: As you go? Yeah, I’d say it’s a completely left

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Speaker 1: field answer because the subject I was most interested in

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Speaker 1: and actually wanted to do at university was history. And

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Speaker 1: I’m still obsessed by history. But I remember a conversation

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Speaker 1: I had with my dad who was in a pub

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Speaker 1: over a beer when I was planning to go to university.

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Speaker 1: And I said, Dad, I really want to go and

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Speaker 1: do history at university. And he said, son, you are

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Speaker 1: my pension. Think again. What else are you good at?

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Speaker 1: And so I think I wish I’d done history.

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Speaker 2: That is an acceptable answer.

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Speaker 1: Is it acceptable?

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Speaker 4: It’s good because there are certain things about history that

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Speaker 4: I think are really kind of important. Just the whole

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Speaker 4: idea of pattern recognition, which is actually very similar to

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Speaker 4: math if you think about it. And so it kind

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Speaker 4: of dovetails into Rachel’s question about like the pivot from

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Speaker 4: Unilever to Teva. What are the patterns that you are

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Speaker 4: recognizing now that you’re three months into that role at Teva?

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Speaker 1: Indeed. Yeah. And like everything, there are things that are

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Speaker 1: similar and things that are I’m learning now, it’s going

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Speaker 1: to be very different, right? So obviously having spent a

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Speaker 1: fair chunk of the last three or four years in

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Speaker 1: PT and wellbeing, part of Unilever, you know, speed is currency,

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Speaker 1: innovation is really, really important to kind of drive business growth.

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Speaker 1: Whereas in healthcare, you know, what I need to kind

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Speaker 1: of learn, which I’m really excited about, is the things

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Speaker 1: which are currency is kind of trust and accuracy. So

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Speaker 1: I kind of need to learn, you know, where these

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Speaker 1: kind of different things come from, but also what I

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Speaker 1: really like is that the maturity of the capabilities in

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Speaker 1: both marketing, digital, e-commerce, it’s really high, right? So what

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Speaker 1: we’re often trying to do when we’re at Unilever is

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Speaker 1: where are we right now? How can we be leading it?

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Speaker 1: What’s the thing that hasn’t been invented yet? Where are

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Speaker 1: the consumers going and can we lead consumers there? Can

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Speaker 1: we build categories? I would say they can’t be maybe

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Speaker 1: doing transformation and you can build it on the Rolls-Royce

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Speaker 1: rather than building the Rolls-Royce. And I think here, my

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Speaker 1: problem solving brain has had to shift into how do

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Speaker 1: you not have to break things apart to build, but

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Speaker 1: actually build from scratch and use that as a way

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Speaker 1: to leapfrog competition, which I think is a different challenge.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn’t say easier challenge, but a different challenge.

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Speaker 3: Is the lack of maturity category-wide or just within the

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Speaker 3: organization that you’re working at?

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Speaker 1: A bit of both. I think Temba has broadly been

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Speaker 1: a generics company, but actually is now an innovative biopharma

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Speaker 1: company if you look at the percentage of the business.

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Speaker 1: But if you think of how their brain set is

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Speaker 1: kind of wired, it’s a bit more in that frame

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Speaker 1: of mind, which is a different type of marketing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you’ve seen a lot of the consumer health businesses at

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Speaker 1: Traditional Pharma, the kind of moved separately or kind of

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Speaker 1: listed separately or demerged from there it’s mainly because of

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Speaker 1: the mindset being different rather than the category being different

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Speaker 1: so you know for us one of our biggest brands

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Speaker 1: is pseudocrime which if you’ve ever lived in the uk

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Speaker 1: this is a hardcore household brand for you know new

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Speaker 1: families and it’s uh in the market leader in the

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Speaker 1: nappy rash and one of the Natural Rush Cream, and

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Speaker 1: it’s one of the number one brands globally in that category.

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Speaker 1: If you think of how we talk to consumers, it’s

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Speaker 1: very consumer goods, right? So I would say that’s very similar,

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Speaker 1: not too different. But I’d say the category is opening

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Speaker 1: and moving in kind of this direction. You see more

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Speaker 1: creators being in this space. Obviously, Derma Cosmetics kind of

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Speaker 1: started that trend. the number one reason I read every

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Speaker 1: kind of research I’ve looked at since I’ve been here

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Speaker 1: for the first three months is the number one reason

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Speaker 1: consumers choose products and brands in the OTC category remains HCPs, right?

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Speaker 1: So the demand for trust and accuracy is still really,

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Speaker 1: really important. And I’m sure that will shift, right? You

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Speaker 1: see lots of transformation elements, whether I’m sure we’ll talk

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Speaker 1: about AI. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, I’m curious about, every analyst is projecting that

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Speaker 3: the next big disruption with AI is in drug development.

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Speaker 3: And that very quickly over the next 18 months, like

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Speaker 3: the majority of drugs that are going to come to

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Speaker 3: market are not developed by humans, but rather by AI.

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Speaker 3: And so how do you think humans are going to

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Speaker 3: respond to the fact that their drugs are essentially being

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Speaker 3: created by machines?

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Speaker 1: I mean, that’s very interesting. I mean, I’m not sure

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Speaker 1: I’m the most qualified to answer that question, but I

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Speaker 1: would say is AI has been really important across the

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Speaker 1: board to drive productivity, right? And everywhere where we have seen,

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Speaker 1: and I can talk about marketing and e-commerce, but if

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Speaker 1: you break down the problem, generally the humans, part of

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Speaker 1: the process is always really going to be needed, right?

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Speaker 1: There’s a human quality to it. The things which computers

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Speaker 1: do and AI can do, is really speed up the process.

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Speaker 1: There’s a lot of, let’s say, screening and testing, and

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Speaker 1: that needs to get done. That takes a long time

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Speaker 1: in pharma development. And if AI can help speed up

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Speaker 1: that process whilst having the same level of rig, amazing, right?

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Speaker 1: We had the same conversation for the last three or

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Speaker 1: four years in content development in marketing, right, which is,

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Speaker 1: We need humans in this process because who can really

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Speaker 1: judge the quality of content? Humans. But, you know, when

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Speaker 1: AI has been really useful, if you kind of break

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Speaker 1: down the content development process has been, how do you

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Speaker 1: breathe faster? Can you produce more things at scale? Can

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Speaker 1: you do voiceover and copywriting and transcreation and all of

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Speaker 1: these things and get more for the same price for

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Speaker 1: more for less in a much faster time? but the

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Speaker 1: ultimate judge of quality is going to be the human

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Speaker 1: driving that process. I think that’s there to say, do

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Speaker 1: I think at some point in the future, you get

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Speaker 1: more agentic models doing more of the work? I think yes.

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Speaker 1: What I see in the pharma industry, which may be

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Speaker 1: slower than maybe consumer goods, is the regulatory process is

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Speaker 1: far more stringent, right? And that will take probably longer

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Speaker 1: to catch up. And also, people we partner with to

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Speaker 1: deliver these products to consumers are extremely expert in their field, right?

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Speaker 1: So HCPs and pharmacologists and doctors, they want trust first

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Speaker 1: and they need explicit proof that efficacy of the product works.

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Speaker 1: And we want to make sure we continue to deliver that.

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Speaker 2: I hear you. And obviously that makes a ton of sense.

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Speaker 4: And we’re going to go back to that point about

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Speaker 4: the history classes you didn’t take and pattern recognition. I

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Speaker 4: remember working with a number of OTC companies back in 2010, 2011,

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Speaker 4: that were reticent to get involved in social media because

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Speaker 4: adverse reaction. If somebody said, you know, I tried this

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Speaker 4: particular OTC product and my headache wasn’t resolved, then you

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Speaker 4: got to go report it to the FDA, at least

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Speaker 4: in the States.

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Speaker 2: Trust obviously being super credible as well.

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Speaker 4: But you’ve also raised instances where AI can help with workflow,

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Speaker 4: AI can help with content creation, obviously there’s a human component.

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Speaker 1: On all of it.

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Speaker 4: So maybe less on AI revolutionizing how a product comes

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Speaker 4: to life. But my question for you is as you,

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Speaker 4: as you come to Teva, you know, you kind of

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Speaker 4: have a little bit of a blank canvas. Are there

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Speaker 4: things that you’ve already started thinking about or doing that

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Speaker 4: has AI helping the work work faster?

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Speaker 1: Yes. It’s one of those things where my brain works

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Speaker 1: in kind of two speeds. You can build your vision

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Speaker 1: and your strategy, and that might take time and you

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Speaker 1: get to learn, learn the business and learn some of

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Speaker 1: the challenges and listen to people, really. But things that

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Speaker 1: came in saying that we can 10X the quantity of

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Speaker 1: content that we produce. And I think the teams had

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Speaker 1: already started to shift media mix towards digital. And I’d

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Speaker 1: say that’s somewhat behind CPG. So. It’s kind of easy

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Speaker 1: to think that way. But we know there’s a lot

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Speaker 1: of data and proof that if you don’t deliver content

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Speaker 1: that’s really fit for platform, you will fail. All of

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Speaker 1: your results and ROIs will show that it doesn’t work.

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Speaker 1: And we know that content is 70% of the ROI

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Speaker 1: of all of advertising, if not more. So I’d say

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Speaker 1: content was one of the first areas I really looked at.

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Speaker 1: And how can Gen AI really help us scale that

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Speaker 1: up whilst having control, right? So the added control layer

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Speaker 1: in OTC is, as you say, one side, the kind

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Speaker 1: of messaging you can put out. But also here in digital,

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Speaker 1: at least, there’s a lot of external regulatory checking that

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Speaker 1: needs to get done before a consumer can actually see

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Speaker 1: some social asset or something like that. It hasn’t reached

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Speaker 1: my desk yet in terms of the blocker hasn’t hit

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Speaker 1: me in the face. I’m kind of in blissful ignorance

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Speaker 1: around it right now. But I see where having a

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Speaker 1: systemic thought behind it can really help right so if

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Speaker 1: you can clear with external bodies kind of a claims

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Speaker 1: hierarchy or claims catalog if you can set a messaging

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Speaker 1: catalog where you can really think through realistically here’s the

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Speaker 1: things we’re going to say here’s things we’re absolutely not

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Speaker 1: going to say And then within that, plug that into

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Speaker 1: your gen AI system. So that is actually hard rules

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Speaker 1: embedded into what we deliver. I think that can really

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Speaker 1: speed us up and give us trust externally to try

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Speaker 1: and operate with more volume, more variety, and give us

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Speaker 1: more velocity. The thing which I think is going to

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Speaker 1: be really interesting to see is how we deal with

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Speaker 1: creators and influencers, because I think increasingly in AI and GEO,

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Speaker 1: because Outside of HCPs, consumers are picking up all of

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Speaker 1: their education from so many different sources now. And you

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Speaker 1: almost have to be there. Otherwise, there’s potential of picking

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Speaker 1: up incorrect information or potentially nuisance information, which could be

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Speaker 1: bad for you. So I think the period of time,

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Speaker 1: as you were saying, where there was risk aversion internally,

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Speaker 1: we may have kind of passed that hurdle now. And

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Speaker 1: it’s part of my job really to kind of continue

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Speaker 1: to educate the teams internally, whether it’s the pharmacological team

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Speaker 1: or the medical affairs team to say, look, how do

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Speaker 1: we address it? How do we get ahead of this problem?

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Speaker 1: Because AI isn’t really going to wait for us, right?

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Speaker 1: Someone is going to go into chat GPT and say,

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Speaker 1: how do we, what’s the best use of this product?

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Speaker 1: And if it’s out in the marketplace, you know, they’ll

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Speaker 1: find an answer. So it’s better that that answer comes

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Speaker 1: from us.

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Speaker 3: Well, there’s, An incredible amount of change that is certain.

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Speaker 3: And we have to ask you our famous last question,

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Speaker 3: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: I was looking forward to this question. I think the,

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Speaker 1: I was listening to the last podcast from you guys.

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Speaker 1: And I know one of my colleagues, Kevin Farland was

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Speaker 1: on maybe a year, year and a half ago. And

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Speaker 1: he talked about doing skydiving. And then a couple of

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Speaker 1: others talked about becoming a parent. And I’d say that’s

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Speaker 1: probably one of the bravest things. things anyone can do

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Speaker 1: because it really changes the way you behave and you

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Speaker 1: kind of have something to look after that’s bigger than yourself.

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Speaker 1: So I won’t do those, even though I’d say those

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Speaker 1: are probably the two bravest things I’ve done. Maybe for

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Speaker 1: this one, I’d say, look, leaving behind, I wouldn’t call

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Speaker 1: it high comfort, but a high profile role in Unilever

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Speaker 1: and deliberately put myself into a context where I’ve had

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Speaker 1: to start again. I’m learning a new industry. I learned

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Speaker 1: a completely different set of context, probably smaller brands with

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Speaker 1: more aggressive growth. And I’m having to reinvent myself, you know,

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Speaker 1: as an established leader. It’s handy doors, but I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, it’s harder than it sounds. But I’m really

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Speaker 1: excited about it. I think it’s going to be one

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Speaker 1: of my biggest growth accelerators. But I’m in the process

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Speaker 1: of being brave, let’s put it like that.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was so nice to get to know you

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Speaker 3: on a totally different level after all these years. And

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Speaker 3: we’re going to be following what’s going on in the

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Speaker 3: OTC and pharma category via your eyes. And thanks for sharing.

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Speaker 1: Great. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: If you like what you heard and you want to

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Speaker 3: go check out other Unilever alumni, go check out an

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Speaker 3: episode we did with Ryu, who is the chief digital

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Speaker 3: officer of Unilever. And if you like what you heard,

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Speaker 3: tell a friend, write a review. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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Speaker 5: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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Speaker 5: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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Speaker 5: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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Speaker 5: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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Speaker 5: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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Speaker 5: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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Speaker 5: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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Speaker 5: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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Speaker 5: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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Speaker 5: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.