Brave Commerce

Hosted ByRachel Tipograph & Sarah Hofstetter

MikMak Founder & CEO Rachel Tipograph and Profitero’s President Sarah Hofstetter tackle what’s relevant in eCommerce today for the world’s biggest brands. Each episode they’ll share tips worth millions in sales, while interviewing the bravest marketers on how to navigate eCommerce’s latest consumer and retailer dynamics.

BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode Total Wine & More’s Brian Gelb on Intent-Based Leadership and Retail Growth in a Challenging Alcohol Market

Brave Commerce
Brave Commerce
BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode Total Wine & More’s Brian Gelb on Intent-Based Leadership and Retail Growth in a Challenging Alcohol Market
Loading
/

In this episode of BRAVE COMMERCE, Rachel Tipograph and Sarah Hofstetter sit down with Brian Gelb, Senior Vice President of Wine and Concierge at Total Wine & More, to unpack how a retailer is gaining share while the broader alcohol market faces headwinds. Brian shares how his military background shaped an “intent-based leadership” approach that pushes decision-making down, builds ownership, and requires teams to arrive with a recommendation, not just an issue.

They also discuss what often breaks down between suppliers and retail partners, why bringing real customer insights to the table changes the quality of joint business planning conversations, and how Total Wine stays focused on service, selection, and sharp pricing, while expanding into non-alcoholic, THC-infused, and emerging functional beverage segments.

Key takeaways

  • Intent-based leadership drives accountability by empowering teams to own decisions and defend their reasoning.
  • Retailer–supplier alignment improves when both sides start with customer insights and shared strategy.
  • Share growth in a challenging market comes from disciplined focus on experience, assortment, and price.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

1
00:00:01,000 –> 00:00:03,060
Speaker 1: And if we can find that middle ground where it

2
00:00:03,100 –> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: drives their strategy and drives our strategy, it’s really easy.

3
00:00:06,780 –> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 1: We’re not some big, scary buyer that’s hidden behind a wall. Like,

4
00:00:10,980 –> 00:00:14,590
Speaker 1: let’s just sit down and collaborate and solve the consumer

5
00:00:14,610 –> 00:00:17,189
Speaker 1: problems together. I mean, that’s really what it boils down to.

6
00:00:18,170 –> 00:00:21,110
Speaker 1: And I feel like so many suppliers miss that. They

7
00:00:21,150 –> 00:00:24,550
Speaker 1: come in and they just push their agenda and their

8
00:00:24,610 –> 00:00:25,820
Speaker 1: ideas and what they.

9
00:00:25,660 –> 00:00:26,160
Speaker 2: Want to do.

10
00:00:26,880 –> 00:00:28,740
Speaker 1: And they don’t take the time to listen and hear

11
00:00:28,780 –> 00:00:31,970
Speaker 1: what total wine strategy is. And if they would listen

12
00:00:32,030 –> 00:00:34,410
Speaker 1: and pay attention first, and there are some amazing partners

13
00:00:34,430 –> 00:00:37,190
Speaker 1: that do this, then we can find that overlap and

14
00:00:37,210 –> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 1: that Venn diagram and we can sell more wine together.

15
00:00:39,630 –> 00:00:42,060
Speaker 1: It’s really not that complicated.

16
00:00:42,700 –> 00:00:46,580
Speaker 3: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

17
00:00:46,700 –> 00:00:49,400
Speaker 4: And I’m Rachel Tippegraff. And this is a show that

18
00:00:49,460 –> 00:00:52,610
Speaker 4: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

19
00:00:52,630 –> 00:00:53,470
Speaker 1: Welcome to Free of Commerce.

20
00:01:00,710 –> 00:01:03,590
Speaker 4: Sarah, would you rather be an insider or an outsider?

21
00:01:04,150 –> 00:01:08,050
Speaker 3: You asked me the most inane questions to start with.

22
00:01:08,290 –> 00:01:13,069
Speaker 3: No context whatsoever. Can you build on this a little bit?

23
00:01:13,350 –> 00:01:18,110
Speaker 4: When it comes to working within business, would you rather

24
00:01:18,170 –> 00:01:22,980
Speaker 4: have deep expertise in a particular category or have breadth

25
00:01:23,020 –> 00:01:26,430
Speaker 4: of knowledge? in a wide range of categories. What do

26
00:01:26,450 –> 00:01:27,789
Speaker 4: you think makes you a better business person?

27
00:01:28,250 –> 00:01:31,770
Speaker 3: I think what makes me a better business person is

28
00:01:31,910 –> 00:01:35,860
Speaker 3: the fact that I’ve got the broad as kind of

29
00:01:35,880 –> 00:01:39,160
Speaker 3: more of like an expected, but I think what differentiates

30
00:01:39,280 –> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 3: is the deep, which is frankly why I agreed to

31
00:01:42,760 –> 00:01:46,020
Speaker 3: start this podcast with you. You know, I knew how

32
00:01:46,060 –> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 3: to lead in disruptive change. I’ve done that before, but

33
00:01:49,060 –> 00:01:51,580
Speaker 3: you can’t lead in disruptive change until you actually understand

34
00:01:51,660 –> 00:01:55,780
Speaker 3: what’s happening, whether it’s search or social commerce, Soon AI.

35
00:01:56,110 –> 00:02:00,070
Speaker 3: And if you don’t have that, then frankly, you don’t

36
00:02:00,110 –> 00:02:02,490
Speaker 3: really stand out. And I don’t really know what value

37
00:02:02,530 –> 00:02:04,010
Speaker 3: you’re bringing. What about yourself?

38
00:02:04,170 –> 00:02:08,070
Speaker 4: Well, I had my first experience with this recently. So,

39
00:02:08,090 –> 00:02:10,609
Speaker 4: I mean, we all know I’ve essentially done one thing

40
00:02:10,630 –> 00:02:12,710
Speaker 4: in my life, which is operate at the intersection of

41
00:02:12,930 –> 00:02:16,030
Speaker 4: media and commerce. But I now serve on a public

42
00:02:16,050 –> 00:02:19,950
Speaker 4: board of a restaurant group called First Watch. And I

43
00:02:19,970 –> 00:02:23,859
Speaker 4: attended my first board meeting last week. And I have

44
00:02:24,260 –> 00:02:27,030
Speaker 4: no experience in the restaurant industry. So they did not

45
00:02:27,070 –> 00:02:31,010
Speaker 4: bring me on for that. But I have deep experience

46
00:02:31,290 –> 00:02:35,670
Speaker 4: in obviously modern day brand building and customer acquisition. And

47
00:02:35,710 –> 00:02:38,900
Speaker 4: so it was the first time where I realized that

48
00:02:38,940 –> 00:02:43,300
Speaker 4: I could take my deep expertise in one arena and

49
00:02:43,419 –> 00:02:48,210
Speaker 4: bring it to adjacent categories and have quite an impact

50
00:02:48,250 –> 00:02:50,680
Speaker 4: by Only saying a handful of things.

51
00:02:51,060 –> 00:02:55,470
Speaker 3: Well, welcome to board membership. Conversation for another podcast. But

52
00:02:55,530 –> 00:02:57,090
Speaker 3: I do think that that’s a big part of this

53
00:02:57,310 –> 00:03:01,510
Speaker 3: is recognizing that the superpower that got you into one

54
00:03:01,550 –> 00:03:04,639
Speaker 3: job or that made you successful in one may not

55
00:03:04,760 –> 00:03:08,079
Speaker 3: be the superpower that you end up applying to other things.

56
00:03:08,139 –> 00:03:09,860
Speaker 3: It’s actually one of the things I love the most

57
00:03:09,919 –> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 3: about actually board work is, you know, when I’m sitting

58
00:03:13,480 –> 00:03:16,030
Speaker 3: in the Campbell’s board, nobody’s asking me questions about commerce

59
00:03:16,250 –> 00:03:23,290
Speaker 3: or social or marketing. It’s about disruption. It’s about when

60
00:03:23,330 –> 00:03:26,750
Speaker 3: do you know that something is actually worth paying attention to,

61
00:03:26,810 –> 00:03:29,889
Speaker 3: having that spidey sense on those kinds of things. It’s

62
00:03:30,070 –> 00:03:34,860
Speaker 3: asking questions as a former business owner. It’s pulling on

63
00:03:34,880 –> 00:03:40,900
Speaker 3: strengths that you accumulated, not necessarily intentionally, but certainly as

64
00:03:40,940 –> 00:03:43,410
Speaker 3: a byproduct of the things that you’re doing. And that’s

65
00:03:43,510 –> 00:03:45,830
Speaker 3: probably why it takes a while to become a board member,

66
00:03:45,930 –> 00:03:49,390
Speaker 3: because it is about the collective experiences. I’m so happy

67
00:03:49,430 –> 00:03:50,090
Speaker 3: you’re doing this.

68
00:03:50,510 –> 00:03:52,290
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it was awesome. We’ll have to catch up

69
00:03:52,330 –> 00:03:56,110
Speaker 4: separately about it. But regardless, I think it’s interesting. I

70
00:03:56,270 –> 00:03:59,970
Speaker 4: was actually very surprised to hear this. But Total Wine,

71
00:04:00,050 –> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 4: which is arguably one of the largest players in Bev

72
00:04:04,760 –> 00:04:10,180
Speaker 4: Alk retail, is growing while a lot of the brands

73
00:04:10,220 –> 00:04:14,030
Speaker 4: that they sell are struggling. And so you have to

74
00:04:14,370 –> 00:04:17,450
Speaker 4: ask the question, what’s going on at Total Wine?

75
00:04:17,970 –> 00:04:20,150
Speaker 3: I think there’s a number of trends afoot, and we’re

76
00:04:20,170 –> 00:04:22,690
Speaker 3: going to hear a lot more from Brian about this.

77
00:04:22,810 –> 00:04:27,360
Speaker 3: But yes, having that conversation with Brian and hearing like basically,

78
00:04:27,450 –> 00:04:31,040
Speaker 3: you know, everything is rainbows and unicorns and then coming

79
00:04:31,100 –> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 3: out of Cagney, listening to a couple of the Bevel

80
00:04:33,360 –> 00:04:37,820
Speaker 3: guys citing the need to diversify, reduce, you know, outlook,

81
00:04:37,860 –> 00:04:43,160
Speaker 3: things like that. It does seem counterintuitive. But in the

82
00:04:43,220 –> 00:04:45,719
Speaker 3: same way that I think, you know, large CPGs are

83
00:04:45,740 –> 00:04:49,840
Speaker 3: getting disrupted by these startups who are just so narrowly

84
00:04:49,900 –> 00:04:54,589
Speaker 3: focused and not burdened by their scale. I think Total

85
00:04:54,610 –> 00:04:56,849
Speaker 3: Wine has a similar thing saying we’re going to stay

86
00:04:56,890 –> 00:05:00,330
Speaker 3: narrowly focused and figure out how to find our edge

87
00:05:00,390 –> 00:05:03,550
Speaker 3: and find our space. Brian unpacks it. But it’s also

88
00:05:03,610 –> 00:05:08,180
Speaker 3: interesting looking at who Brian is as an individual because

89
00:05:08,440 –> 00:05:11,020
Speaker 3: he also is not cut from the same cloth as

90
00:05:11,080 –> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 3: everybody else.

91
00:05:12,160 –> 00:05:14,820
Speaker 4: Yeah, he didn’t grow up in this space. And I

92
00:05:14,860 –> 00:05:17,580
Speaker 4: think that’s what makes this conversation so fascinating. So let’s

93
00:05:17,620 –> 00:05:18,840
Speaker 4: bring Brian onto the show.

94
00:05:21,779 –> 00:05:24,700
Speaker 3: Today, we are happy to have Brian Gelb, Senior VP

95
00:05:24,820 –> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 3: of Wine and Concierge at Total Wine & More. Brian,

96
00:05:29,060 –> 00:05:30,580
Speaker 3: it’s been a while. I’ve been trying to get you on.

97
00:05:30,620 –> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 3: I’m so glad you agreed to come.

98
00:05:32,790 –> 00:05:34,330
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. It’s exciting to be here.

99
00:05:34,600 –> 00:05:37,240
Speaker 3: We go way back, but one thing I learned in

100
00:05:37,300 –> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 3: preparation for this episode is your military background, which is

101
00:05:42,000 –> 00:05:44,690
Speaker 3: very similar to a lot of our mutual friends and

102
00:05:45,110 –> 00:05:47,650
Speaker 3: many Brave Commerce alumni. So first of all, let me

103
00:05:47,670 –> 00:05:51,190
Speaker 3: start with thank you for your service, because gosh, that’s

104
00:05:51,690 –> 00:05:56,849
Speaker 3: pretty admirable to have done it. And that’s just incredibly special.

105
00:05:57,170 –> 00:06:01,210
Speaker 3: And I hope that others give you that appreciation whenever

106
00:06:01,250 –> 00:06:04,710
Speaker 3: they find out that you have that background. One of

107
00:06:04,730 –> 00:06:08,750
Speaker 3: the things that you talked about was how military officers

108
00:06:09,029 –> 00:06:12,969
Speaker 3: have an advantage in business. And what do you think

109
00:06:13,010 –> 00:06:17,339
Speaker 3: that you’ve gained that maybe others may never learn without

110
00:06:17,380 –> 00:06:18,419
Speaker 3: having had that experience?

111
00:06:18,580 –> 00:06:19,039
Speaker 5: Yeah.

112
00:06:19,160 –> 00:06:21,160
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you for thanking me. I

113
00:06:21,320 –> 00:06:23,620
Speaker 1: never quite know how to respond to when people thank you.

114
00:06:23,640 –> 00:06:25,979
Speaker 5: Don’t say my pleasure.

115
00:06:26,000 –> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 4: I mean, I don’t know.

116
00:06:27,460 –> 00:06:29,060
Speaker 5: My pleasure. Is that the right phrase?

117
00:06:29,420 –> 00:06:32,200
Speaker 1: You never know how to respond because when you serve,

118
00:06:32,240 –> 00:06:34,690
Speaker 1: you don’t really think of it as you’re doing it

119
00:06:34,730 –> 00:06:36,810
Speaker 1: on behalf of other people, you’re doing something, you know,

120
00:06:36,850 –> 00:06:38,669
Speaker 1: for like the greater good and for, you know, cause

121
00:06:38,690 –> 00:06:40,350
Speaker 1: you believe in the core values of our, you know,

122
00:06:40,370 –> 00:06:42,730
Speaker 1: our country and our constitution. So it’s always like a little,

123
00:06:42,750 –> 00:06:44,670
Speaker 1: you never quite know how to reply to that.

124
00:06:44,870 –> 00:06:47,070
Speaker 3: Should we say something else to you instead? Is that like,

125
00:06:47,089 –> 00:06:49,150
Speaker 3: should we create a new, a new thing?

126
00:06:49,170 –> 00:06:51,390
Speaker 5: No, no, I like it. I think it’s like, it’s

127
00:06:51,750 –> 00:06:53,650
Speaker 5: probably interesting to talk about. Cause it’s kind of like that.

128
00:06:53,610 –> 00:06:55,680
Speaker 1: Awkwardness is like every time someone says it to me,

129
00:06:55,710 –> 00:06:57,450
Speaker 1: it’s always like, I always feel that you never quite

130
00:06:57,490 –> 00:06:58,230
Speaker 1: know how to reply.

131
00:06:58,250 –> 00:07:00,350
Speaker 3: I once said that to somebody who was boarding in

132
00:07:00,390 –> 00:07:02,620
Speaker 3: front of me on, on an airline. I said, thank

133
00:07:02,630 –> 00:07:05,310
Speaker 3: you for your service. And it’s like, yeah, it was nothing.

134
00:07:05,570 –> 00:07:06,830
Speaker 5: It’s my job. You know, it’s what you do.

135
00:07:06,870 –> 00:07:10,250
Speaker 1: You show up, you do the military thing, but it’s

136
00:07:11,310 –> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 1: going back to your question on, you know, why military

137
00:07:14,960 –> 00:07:16,740
Speaker 1: officers and, you know, what they bring to business. I

138
00:07:16,760 –> 00:07:19,980
Speaker 1: think the thing that’s really interesting, and I don’t know

139
00:07:20,020 –> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: that you really appreciate it if you haven’t gone through

140
00:07:21,980 –> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 1: that background is, you know, here you are as a

141
00:07:24,420 –> 00:07:28,670
Speaker 1: young military officer, 22, 23 years old, and you’re just

142
00:07:28,700 –> 00:07:32,560
Speaker 1: put in charge of people, situations, you Thankfully, I was

143
00:07:32,600 –> 00:07:35,860
Speaker 1: never in direct combat fire, but a lot of military

144
00:07:35,900 –> 00:07:40,530
Speaker 1: officers are. And you’re just expected to lead from day one.

145
00:07:41,250 –> 00:07:44,210
Speaker 1: And when you come into the business world, I think

146
00:07:44,270 –> 00:07:47,950
Speaker 1: so many people are looking for direction, looking for guidance.

147
00:07:48,890 –> 00:07:51,050
Speaker 1: And with a military background, you’re never really given that

148
00:07:51,090 –> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: direction or guidance. You’re given a big picture and you’re said, hey,

149
00:07:54,410 –> 00:07:56,770
Speaker 1: go do this, make it happen. But you’re never given

150
00:07:56,860 –> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 1: any specific details on how to actually make it happen.

151
00:07:59,780 –> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 5: And you rely on your trainings.

152
00:08:01,500 –> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 1: And so it creates like an extreme sense of what

153
00:08:05,380 –> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 1: I would say is like ownership and initiative. I think that’s,

154
00:08:08,920 –> 00:08:11,140
Speaker 1: you know, what’s missing if you don’t come from the

155
00:08:11,180 –> 00:08:13,700
Speaker 1: military background is you may not have that. You know,

156
00:08:13,720 –> 00:08:15,670
Speaker 1: I think there’s a lot of people that, you know,

157
00:08:15,730 –> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 1: or maybe serial entrepreneurs that really they have ownership and

158
00:08:18,990 –> 00:08:21,590
Speaker 1: that initiative and drive. But a lot of people that

159
00:08:21,610 –> 00:08:24,130
Speaker 1: just kind of grow up working for companies don’t really

160
00:08:24,190 –> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 1: have that. extreme sense of ownership. And I think there’s

161
00:08:27,450 –> 00:08:29,780
Speaker 1: actually a strong correlation between a lot of entrepreneurs and

162
00:08:29,820 –> 00:08:33,900
Speaker 1: people with military background because of it. And I think ultimately,

163
00:08:34,600 –> 00:08:36,360
Speaker 1: sometimes that can be the downfall of military officers when

164
00:08:36,380 –> 00:08:38,480
Speaker 1: they come into companies because they do have that ownership

165
00:08:38,520 –> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 1: and they’re really maybe perceived as being aggressive and a little.

166
00:08:42,260 –> 00:08:44,580
Speaker 5: Bit reckless at times. But the idea is.

167
00:08:44,580 –> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 1: That they want to charge that hill and make things

168
00:08:47,400 –> 00:08:50,660
Speaker 1: happen and move things forward and typically aren’t looking for

169
00:08:50,740 –> 00:08:53,340
Speaker 1: permission or guidance. They’re really just going to make things happen.

170
00:08:53,380 –> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 1: And the What they expect out of their leaders and

171
00:08:55,760 –> 00:08:57,860
Speaker 1: their managers is that if they’re getting out of line,

172
00:08:57,880 –> 00:08:59,610
Speaker 1: how do they get corrected and get put back in

173
00:08:59,620 –> 00:09:02,770
Speaker 1: line quickly? Otherwise, they’re going to keep going without really

174
00:09:02,870 –> 00:09:06,010
Speaker 1: any real guardrails. That can be the downside to hiring

175
00:09:06,530 –> 00:09:07,309
Speaker 1: military veterans.

176
00:09:08,190 –> 00:09:11,829
Speaker 4: How do you think you can manufacture that sense of accountability?

177
00:09:11,890 –> 00:09:15,390
Speaker 4: So as an entrepreneur, and I’ve been doing a lot

178
00:09:15,410 –> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 4: of reflection, my company was acquired essentially 45 days ago.

179
00:09:20,240 –> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 5: And the prize.

180
00:09:23,990 –> 00:09:27,410
Speaker 4: Is what drove you every single day, the potential opportunity

181
00:09:27,470 –> 00:09:29,730
Speaker 4: on the other side to build something that had significant

182
00:09:29,770 –> 00:09:33,290
Speaker 4: value for all shareholders. In the military, it’s life and death.

183
00:09:33,929 –> 00:09:36,890
Speaker 4: So if you grow up, for example, just working for

184
00:09:36,910 –> 00:09:40,300
Speaker 4: a company, how do you think you can manufacture that

185
00:09:40,340 –> 00:09:41,319
Speaker 4: sense of accountability?

186
00:09:41,340 –> 00:09:42,840
Speaker 5: That’s a great question.

187
00:09:42,880 –> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: I think it comes down to the values you embed

188
00:09:46,140 –> 00:09:48,720
Speaker 1: in the organization and then how you lead those people.

189
00:09:49,360 –> 00:09:52,239
Speaker 1: And I’m a big believer in And this is pretty

190
00:09:52,260 –> 00:09:54,380
Speaker 1: common actually in the submarine force where I came from,

191
00:09:54,820 –> 00:09:58,330
Speaker 1: what’s called like intent-based leadership. And so anytime somebody brings

192
00:09:58,390 –> 00:10:00,510
Speaker 1: me a problem, I’m always like, well, what do you

193
00:10:00,580 –> 00:10:04,000
Speaker 1: want to do? And then they kind of state some

194
00:10:04,040 –> 00:10:04,780
Speaker 1: facts or whatever.

195
00:10:04,820 –> 00:10:06,740
Speaker 5: And I say, well, why do you think that? What’s

196
00:10:06,760 –> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 5: your reason? Explain your logic to me. Okay.

197
00:10:09,800 –> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 2: Okay.

198
00:10:10,020 –> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 1: Now I understand why. Well, what will that accomplish? What

199
00:10:13,000 –> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: are the watchouts? What are the things that you’re concerned about?

200
00:10:15,480 –> 00:10:16,579
Speaker 1: And I just ask lots.

201
00:10:16,420 –> 00:10:17,699
Speaker 5: Of kind of probing questions.

202
00:10:18,960 –> 00:10:22,470
Speaker 1: And It forces people to answer all those questions and

203
00:10:22,510 –> 00:10:25,010
Speaker 1: think through their logic. Then we arrive at the end

204
00:10:25,070 –> 00:10:26,730
Speaker 1: and say, okay, I’m aligned with your decision.

205
00:10:26,770 –> 00:10:27,380
Speaker 5: Let’s go do it.

206
00:10:27,929 –> 00:10:29,610
Speaker 1: If I’m not aligned with their decision, that comes out

207
00:10:29,650 –> 00:10:31,770
Speaker 1: in the debate, right? We say, well, it’s interesting. You

208
00:10:31,790 –> 00:10:33,670
Speaker 1: think that’s the biggest risk. Whereas I think this is

209
00:10:33,710 –> 00:10:35,540
Speaker 1: the biggest risk. Let’s talk through that and we can

210
00:10:35,600 –> 00:10:38,900
Speaker 1: debate which is a bigger risk as an example. And,

211
00:10:38,920 –> 00:10:41,460
Speaker 1: you know, you do that once with someone, they, okay,

212
00:10:41,480 –> 00:10:43,720
Speaker 1: they get it. The second time they come back, maybe

213
00:10:43,740 –> 00:10:45,199
Speaker 1: you have to go through that again, but probably at

214
00:10:45,220 –> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: a lesser scale because they’re a And now when you

215
00:10:49,260 –> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 1: get to the point where you’ve been working with people

216
00:10:51,020 –> 00:10:52,740
Speaker 1: and you have direct reports that you work with for

217
00:10:53,000 –> 00:10:55,900
Speaker 1: six months a year, it becomes ingrained. They’re like, okay,

218
00:10:55,950 –> 00:10:57,969
Speaker 1: I know when I go in to see Brian, I

219
00:10:58,010 –> 00:11:00,110
Speaker 1: can’t just come in and state a problem. I need

220
00:11:00,130 –> 00:11:03,410
Speaker 1: to come in and say, what is the challenge? What

221
00:11:03,450 –> 00:11:05,010
Speaker 1: do I want to go do about it? What are

222
00:11:05,050 –> 00:11:05,890
Speaker 1: my reasons for doing it?

223
00:11:05,910 –> 00:11:06,590
Speaker 5: What’s my logic?

224
00:11:06,630 –> 00:11:09,070
Speaker 1: And it forces them to have that dialogue. And they

225
00:11:09,090 –> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: would say, okay, here’s the situation. Here are three choices.

226
00:11:13,000 –> 00:11:15,520
Speaker 1: Here’s all the risks involved. I believe this is the

227
00:11:15,559 –> 00:11:17,209
Speaker 1: best decision because of X, Y, and Z.

228
00:11:17,950 –> 00:11:20,050
Speaker 5: What do you think? And I’ll say, great.

229
00:11:20,090 –> 00:11:23,310
Speaker 1: Your logic is super sound. I’m 100% aligned with what

230
00:11:23,350 –> 00:11:23,890
Speaker 1: you want to do.

231
00:11:24,630 –> 00:11:26,710
Speaker 5: Go do it. And really what that.

232
00:11:26,610 –> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 1: Does, that logic forces the decision making down. And by

233
00:11:30,780 –> 00:11:33,000
Speaker 1: forcing the decision making down, it forces them to be

234
00:11:33,120 –> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 1: they recognize their owners of the decision. Now, if they

235
00:11:35,679 –> 00:11:37,370
Speaker 1: made the wrong decision, I was a part of it.

236
00:11:37,640 –> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 1: You know, I supported them and I’m going to own

237
00:11:40,059 –> 00:11:43,050
Speaker 1: that wrong decision as much as them. But the reality is,

238
00:11:43,070 –> 00:11:44,990
Speaker 1: is that they arrived at that decision on their own

239
00:11:45,050 –> 00:11:47,429
Speaker 1: and they’ll want to see themselves be successful because they

240
00:11:47,480 –> 00:11:50,339
Speaker 1: felt like they were empowered to make that decision. They’re

241
00:11:50,380 –> 00:11:52,860
Speaker 1: not going to walk out of my office saying, well,

242
00:11:52,880 –> 00:11:54,690
Speaker 1: we’re doing this because Brian told us to do it.

243
00:11:55,059 –> 00:11:57,420
Speaker 1: They’re doing it because they walked through the logic and

244
00:11:57,460 –> 00:12:00,079
Speaker 1: they believe that that was the right decision for the

245
00:12:00,380 –> 00:12:02,660
Speaker 1: overall business. And so to me, I think that’s really

246
00:12:02,679 –> 00:12:05,120
Speaker 1: the approach I take as a leader and it forces

247
00:12:05,160 –> 00:12:07,179
Speaker 1: them to be bought into the decisions we’re making.

248
00:12:07,200 –> 00:12:11,079
Speaker 3: Sounds a lot like that. Actually, somebody that we know

249
00:12:11,120 –> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 3: that I feel like I’ve worked for, even though I

250
00:12:14,160 –> 00:12:18,200
Speaker 3: never worked for him, but your prior boss, Howard Friedman.

251
00:12:18,260 –> 00:12:20,319
Speaker 3: I feel like every day that I would have a

252
00:12:20,360 –> 00:12:22,820
Speaker 3: conversation with him, I would be forced to be prepared

253
00:12:22,860 –> 00:12:25,179
Speaker 3: to answer those questions. And I may as well not

254
00:12:25,240 –> 00:12:27,300
Speaker 3: show up in the room unless I’ve done so.

255
00:12:27,480 –> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

256
00:12:27,700 –> 00:12:29,719
Speaker 1: At first you become like, why is he asking me

257
00:12:29,760 –> 00:12:31,579
Speaker 1: so many questions? But then over time, you just get

258
00:12:31,640 –> 00:12:33,260
Speaker 1: used to it. I saw you had a tremendous earnings

259
00:12:33,300 –> 00:12:33,900
Speaker 1: call the other day.

260
00:12:34,300 –> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 3: He sure did.

261
00:12:35,179 –> 00:12:38,000
Speaker 1: So it sounds like he’s doing unbelievably great things at us.

262
00:12:38,300 –> 00:12:40,060
Speaker 1: I haven’t talked with him in a while, but truly

263
00:12:40,080 –> 00:12:41,180
Speaker 1: impressive what he’s been doing.

264
00:12:41,480 –> 00:12:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

265
00:12:41,720 –> 00:12:45,460
Speaker 3: Cagney presentation was pretty good too. As a Campbell’s board member, I, I,

266
00:12:45,960 –> 00:12:48,020
Speaker 3: I cheer on growth in the category and that is

267
00:12:48,059 –> 00:12:51,819
Speaker 3: all I will have to say about that. This takes

268
00:12:51,880 –> 00:12:54,620
Speaker 3: us back to, we met more than 15 years ago

269
00:12:54,710 –> 00:12:57,650
Speaker 3: when you were Kraft and I was agency side. Then

270
00:12:57,690 –> 00:12:58,949
Speaker 3: you went to Uber Eats.

271
00:12:59,010 –> 00:12:59,189
Speaker 5: Yeah.

272
00:12:59,650 –> 00:13:02,930
Speaker 3: And then Total Wine. So just thinking about the craft

273
00:13:03,110 –> 00:13:05,170
Speaker 3: and Total Wine jobs, like what do you wish you

274
00:13:05,250 –> 00:13:09,469
Speaker 3: knew when you were on the supplier side in CPG

275
00:13:09,650 –> 00:13:13,030
Speaker 3: about how to work with partners on the retail side

276
00:13:13,070 –> 00:13:15,630
Speaker 3: that could help advise, especially a lot of our listeners

277
00:13:15,690 –> 00:13:17,890
Speaker 3: who fit on either end of that spectrum?

278
00:13:18,400 –> 00:13:20,340
Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s a really funny question because I remember when

279
00:13:20,380 –> 00:13:23,179
Speaker 1: I made this transition, how like shocking and jarring it

280
00:13:23,220 –> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 1: was because I remember when I was at craft, we’d

281
00:13:26,820 –> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 1: go and we’d present to our biggest retail customer that

282
00:13:28,820 –> 00:13:32,420
Speaker 1: was Walmart. And here I was, this associate brand manager,

283
00:13:32,460 –> 00:13:36,199
Speaker 1: brand manager running the team. And we’d prepare for weeks

284
00:13:36,240 –> 00:13:39,020
Speaker 1: and weeks and weeks, the presentation. And we’d send it

285
00:13:39,040 –> 00:13:41,600
Speaker 1: to our sales guy that was living in Bentonville. And

286
00:13:42,140 –> 00:13:44,700
Speaker 1: then Howard, the BU president, would go down and present it.

287
00:13:44,740 –> 00:13:46,960
Speaker 1: And we, as the people who did all the work,

288
00:13:47,000 –> 00:13:49,300
Speaker 1: were not allowed to be present. And you knew the

289
00:13:49,340 –> 00:13:50,699
Speaker 1: day of the meeting, you’d be sitting on pins and

290
00:13:50,740 –> 00:13:53,300
Speaker 1: needles all day. You’d be so unproductive because you just

291
00:13:53,350 –> 00:13:55,770
Speaker 1: want to know the results. Like, oh, was Walmart aligned

292
00:13:55,790 –> 00:13:57,730
Speaker 1: with our idea? Are they going to buy in?

293
00:13:57,770 –> 00:13:58,530
Speaker 5: Are they going to do whatever?

294
00:13:59,110 –> 00:14:01,850
Speaker 1: Then you get the feedback from Howard and the sales team.

295
00:14:01,870 –> 00:14:04,350
Speaker 1: There was a guy named Jason at the time. And

296
00:14:04,370 –> 00:14:07,120
Speaker 1: then I switched to the, on the retail side. And

297
00:14:07,160 –> 00:14:09,420
Speaker 1: I remember sitting in a meeting with a really large

298
00:14:09,460 –> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 1: winery with the CEO of the winery. And I just

299
00:14:12,520 –> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 1: remember like laughing internally. I was like, oh my gosh,

300
00:14:15,140 –> 00:14:16,720
Speaker 1: I’m that guy on the other side that we were

301
00:14:16,740 –> 00:14:17,660
Speaker 1: always so nervous about.

302
00:14:17,679 –> 00:14:18,610
Speaker 5: Like I’m now that guy.

303
00:14:19,790 –> 00:14:20,330
Speaker 3: That’s great.

304
00:14:20,530 –> 00:14:23,090
Speaker 1: And I was thinking, I was like, the CEO of this,

305
00:14:23,160 –> 00:14:24,610
Speaker 1: I mean, like a major, major brand. I was like,

306
00:14:24,630 –> 00:14:26,970
Speaker 1: the CEO, I know he didn’t make this deck. I

307
00:14:27,110 –> 00:14:29,250
Speaker 1: know there’s some brand manager sitting in somewhere that made

308
00:14:29,290 –> 00:14:32,610
Speaker 1: the deck in the presentation. And I just died laughing

309
00:14:32,670 –> 00:14:35,290
Speaker 1: at that transition. Because I always pictured the buyer, some

310
00:14:36,030 –> 00:14:39,250
Speaker 1: really old, distinguished person who had been buying their categories

311
00:14:39,270 –> 00:14:39,930
Speaker 1: for forever.

312
00:14:40,050 –> 00:14:41,900
Speaker 5: And when in reality, they.

313
00:14:41,800 –> 00:14:44,820
Speaker 1: Were really just like us on the supplier side. And

314
00:14:45,620 –> 00:14:48,610
Speaker 1: what it comes down to is The jobs and the

315
00:14:48,670 –> 00:14:51,250
Speaker 1: roles are not that dissimilar. The main thing is it

316
00:14:51,270 –> 00:14:54,130
Speaker 1: comes down to the consumer. Everything should be grounded in

317
00:14:54,150 –> 00:14:57,580
Speaker 1: the customer insights. And so if the, you know, the

318
00:14:57,820 –> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 1: brands are amazing at this because they invest like crazy.

319
00:15:00,700 –> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 1: That’s the one thing I really miss about being on

320
00:15:02,260 –> 00:15:04,420
Speaker 1: the supplier side is they really understand the consumer.

321
00:15:04,840 –> 00:15:05,460
Speaker 5: They understand the.

322
00:15:05,460 –> 00:15:10,110
Speaker 1: Insights, the data they have is unbelievable. When they bring

323
00:15:10,140 –> 00:15:12,170
Speaker 1: those insights to us and present it from a consumer

324
00:15:12,210 –> 00:15:14,650
Speaker 1: perspective and share that data with us, it really makes

325
00:15:14,690 –> 00:15:17,870
Speaker 1: the conversation go a lot further because while we’re very

326
00:15:18,210 –> 00:15:21,550
Speaker 1: consumer and customer obsessed from the retail side, we just

327
00:15:21,570 –> 00:15:23,590
Speaker 1: don’t have access to the same level of data that

328
00:15:23,630 –> 00:15:26,890
Speaker 1: they do, even though we’re so much closer to the customer.

329
00:15:27,450 –> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 1: And that’s because there’s a lot of protections on the data.

330
00:15:30,420 –> 00:15:32,840
Speaker 1: I can’t see a lot of competitive data. I know

331
00:15:32,880 –> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: what’s working in Total Wine. My data in Total Wine

332
00:15:34,960 –> 00:15:38,100
Speaker 1: is incredibly deep, incredibly rich, but I don’t know other

333
00:15:38,780 –> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 1: retailers what’s going on in their store. So I don’t

334
00:15:40,680 –> 00:15:44,100
Speaker 1: have like a broader view outside of our own four walls.

335
00:15:44,220 –> 00:15:47,140
Speaker 1: And so that’s where the suppliers can really bring a

336
00:15:47,160 –> 00:15:50,930
Speaker 1: lot of rich information. And what I always tell suppliers too,

337
00:15:51,770 –> 00:15:53,550
Speaker 1: is our goals are the same. They want to sell

338
00:15:53,570 –> 00:15:56,110
Speaker 1: more wine. I want to sell more wine. We want

339
00:15:56,130 –> 00:15:59,250
Speaker 1: to sell more wine together. Let’s figure this out. And

340
00:15:59,270 –> 00:16:01,729
Speaker 1: typically they have a strategy, right? They know who their

341
00:16:01,810 –> 00:16:04,530
Speaker 1: consumer is. They know what they’re trying to do. We

342
00:16:04,570 –> 00:16:06,700
Speaker 1: have our strategy and our consumer, what we’re trying to do.

343
00:16:06,730 –> 00:16:08,850
Speaker 1: It’s a Venn diagram. Like let’s put the two together.

344
00:16:08,870 –> 00:16:11,850
Speaker 1: And if we can find that middle ground where it

345
00:16:11,890 –> 00:16:14,690
Speaker 1: drives their strategy and drives our strategy, it’s really easy.

346
00:16:15,570 –> 00:16:19,490
Speaker 1: We’re not some big, scary buyer that’s hidden behind a wall.

347
00:16:19,550 –> 00:16:22,930
Speaker 1: Like let’s just sit down and collaborate and solve the

348
00:16:22,970 –> 00:16:25,470
Speaker 1: consumer problems together. I mean, that’s really what it boils

349
00:16:25,490 –> 00:16:29,270
Speaker 1: down to. And I feel like so many suppliers have

350
00:16:29,290 –> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: missed that. They come in and they just push their

351
00:16:32,440 –> 00:16:34,950
Speaker 1: agenda and their ideas and what they want to do.

352
00:16:35,650 –> 00:16:37,510
Speaker 1: And they don’t take the time to listen and hear

353
00:16:37,550 –> 00:16:40,770
Speaker 1: what total wine strategy is. And if they would listen

354
00:16:40,830 –> 00:16:43,210
Speaker 1: and pay attention first, and there are some amazing partners

355
00:16:43,230 –> 00:16:45,989
Speaker 1: that do this, then we can find that overlap and

356
00:16:46,010 –> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 1: that Venn diagram and we can sell more wine together.

357
00:16:48,440 –> 00:16:50,900
Speaker 5: It’s really not that complicated. I think you just.

358
00:16:50,820 –> 00:16:54,660
Speaker 4: Gave great advice as someone’s next JVP with you. You know,

359
00:16:54,740 –> 00:16:58,780
Speaker 4: it’s interesting. Total wine seems to be growing when the

360
00:17:00,080 –> 00:17:03,180
Speaker 4: alcohol and spirits category is struggling.

361
00:17:03,280 –> 00:17:03,500
Speaker 2: Yeah.

362
00:17:04,340 –> 00:17:06,740
Speaker 4: So what’s going on and what are we missing?

363
00:17:07,540 –> 00:17:09,140
Speaker 5: Yeah, there’s a few factors there.

364
00:17:09,660 –> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 1: I think for starters, I recognize that the world of

365
00:17:12,100 –> 00:17:16,300
Speaker 1: beverage alcohol, adult beverage alcohol is challenging at the moment.

366
00:17:16,359 –> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 1: And a lot of suppliers are really challenged and sales

367
00:17:19,160 –> 00:17:23,270
Speaker 1: are declining. We are really gaining, frankly, through market share

368
00:17:23,410 –> 00:17:25,670
Speaker 1: is where most of our growth is coming from.

369
00:17:26,030 –> 00:17:28,369
Speaker 5: We’re winning in the market. We’re winning through our customers.

370
00:17:28,550 –> 00:17:29,390
Speaker 5: How are we doing that?

371
00:17:30,210 –> 00:17:32,659
Speaker 1: We really just follow kind of the core principles of

372
00:17:32,690 –> 00:17:34,660
Speaker 1: who we are as a company, which is not, once again,

373
00:17:34,700 –> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 1: not that complicated. It comes down to, we believe in

374
00:17:38,400 –> 00:17:42,119
Speaker 1: providing unbelievable service. You know, you walk into a Total

375
00:17:42,180 –> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 1: Wine or any alcohol store, especially like if you don’t

376
00:17:45,580 –> 00:17:47,420
Speaker 1: know anything about wine, if most people don’t know a

377
00:17:47,460 –> 00:17:50,820
Speaker 1: lot about wine, it’s incredibly overwhelming. I mean, there’s hundreds,

378
00:17:50,859 –> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: if not thousands of bottles on the shelf. How do

379
00:17:53,600 –> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 1: you know what to go buy?

380
00:17:54,900 –> 00:17:55,639
Speaker 3: Where do you.

381
00:17:55,600 –> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 5: Get that advice?

382
00:17:57,240 –> 00:17:58,780
Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time and a lot of

383
00:17:58,859 –> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: energy training all of our associates so that they can

384
00:18:01,660 –> 00:18:04,939
Speaker 1: offer great advice and great guidance to customers. We bring

385
00:18:04,980 –> 00:18:08,159
Speaker 1: our store managers to Napa typically a couple times a

386
00:18:08,200 –> 00:18:10,649
Speaker 1: year to meet the wineries directly and talk with wineries

387
00:18:10,670 –> 00:18:13,330
Speaker 1: here from the winemakers. Every other year, we bring them

388
00:18:13,369 –> 00:18:15,330
Speaker 1: to Europe and tour them through Europe and getting to

389
00:18:15,350 –> 00:18:16,530
Speaker 1: meet European winemakers.

390
00:18:16,710 –> 00:18:18,530
Speaker 5: And this is what we do for our top performers.

391
00:18:19,130 –> 00:18:21,570
Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time on internal training. We

392
00:18:21,590 –> 00:18:23,690
Speaker 1: bring a lot of wineries to our stores, training our stores.

393
00:18:23,750 –> 00:18:25,490
Speaker 1: And so all of that’s really in the spirit of

394
00:18:26,470 –> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 1: Of teaching our store team members how to provide great

395
00:18:29,380 –> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 1: advice and insights. And typically they’re not trying to like

396
00:18:32,000 –> 00:18:34,219
Speaker 1: push certain things. They’re just pushing what they’re personally passionate

397
00:18:34,260 –> 00:18:36,260
Speaker 1: about based on what they hear from people. So that’s

398
00:18:36,280 –> 00:18:39,330
Speaker 1: like number one is like the service aspect. The second

399
00:18:39,350 –> 00:18:42,790
Speaker 1: thing is our selection. I think we are fortunate that

400
00:18:42,970 –> 00:18:45,450
Speaker 1: as the market has become more challenging, as a bigger player,

401
00:18:45,490 –> 00:18:46,750
Speaker 1: we have access to more capital.

402
00:18:47,350 –> 00:18:49,940
Speaker 5: And that’s allowed us to focus on expanding our assortment.

403
00:18:50,700 –> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 1: Our goal is to carry a broad range of products

404
00:18:53,420 –> 00:18:58,590
Speaker 1: from entry-level price points to ultra-rare, ultra-premium type wines and spirits.

405
00:18:59,369 –> 00:19:01,830
Speaker 1: And so we should be able to have something for everyone.

406
00:19:02,450 –> 00:19:05,429
Speaker 1: And that’s really expensive to do. It’s costly buying all

407
00:19:05,450 –> 00:19:07,430
Speaker 1: that product, but I think that’s one of the advantages

408
00:19:07,490 –> 00:19:09,609
Speaker 1: of when you’re the big players. We’ve made that a

409
00:19:09,609 –> 00:19:13,170
Speaker 1: real priority for us. The final pillar is really our pricing.

410
00:19:13,550 –> 00:19:16,540
Speaker 1: We just try to be really laser focused on having

411
00:19:16,640 –> 00:19:19,330
Speaker 1: sharp prices, sharp retails to allow us to be competitive

412
00:19:19,350 –> 00:19:21,850
Speaker 1: in the market. We don’t ever want to be undersold

413
00:19:21,890 –> 00:19:24,969
Speaker 1: versus competition. You know, that’s really what it comes down to.

414
00:19:25,010 –> 00:19:26,990
Speaker 1: And if we focus on the kind of those key

415
00:19:27,030 –> 00:19:30,709
Speaker 1: things and have nice, clean, modern stores, people are going

416
00:19:30,730 –> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: to have a great experience. And it’s kind of sad

417
00:19:33,300 –> 00:19:35,020
Speaker 1: to say, but the bar is not.

418
00:19:35,200 –> 00:19:37,020
Speaker 5: That high in beverage alcohol, in my opinion.

419
00:19:37,100 –> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 1: Like, you know, when I think back to like, you know,

420
00:19:39,640 –> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 1: talk with the two brothers that co-founded Total Wine 30

421
00:19:42,640 –> 00:19:44,780
Speaker 1: some years ago, David and Robert, The reason they got

422
00:19:44,780 –> 00:19:47,290
Speaker 1: into this business is because they looked around and all

423
00:19:47,290 –> 00:19:49,570
Speaker 1: the liquor stores were like kind of dirty and sleazy

424
00:19:49,570 –> 00:19:51,010
Speaker 1: kind of. and they were like, oh, we can make

425
00:19:51,030 –> 00:19:53,130
Speaker 1: this a better experience. And that’s really what they’ve done.

426
00:19:53,150 –> 00:19:55,709
Speaker 1: Like I said, it’s not rocket science. I mean, we’re

427
00:19:55,750 –> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 1: buying and selling wine and spirits and beer, and it’s

428
00:19:59,910 –> 00:20:03,419
Speaker 1: making the experience compelling to the customer. I would be

429
00:20:03,480 –> 00:20:05,379
Speaker 1: remiss if I did not mention that some of the

430
00:20:05,400 –> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: growth as well is coming from new categories. We’ve seen

431
00:20:08,840 –> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 1: tremendous growth With THC-infused beverages, we’re in about 20 states

432
00:20:13,480 –> 00:20:16,340
Speaker 1: where that’s legal. We see that as a big growth opportunity.

433
00:20:16,359 –> 00:20:19,100
Speaker 1: We’re going to continue to invest in that area. As

434
00:20:19,140 –> 00:20:22,180
Speaker 1: well as non-alcoholic beverages, beer, wine, and spirits, that’s really

435
00:20:22,220 –> 00:20:24,750
Speaker 1: grown as well. You know, I think back to when

436
00:20:24,830 –> 00:20:27,790
Speaker 1: I was 25 years old, the idea of drinking like

437
00:20:27,830 –> 00:20:29,490
Speaker 1: an O’Doul’s or a non-alcoholic beer.

438
00:20:29,390 –> 00:20:30,770
Speaker 5: Was like something that wasn’t a thing.

439
00:20:31,270 –> 00:20:33,869
Speaker 1: And now it’s become so common for people to drink

440
00:20:34,250 –> 00:20:37,030
Speaker 1: non-alcoholic wine. It’s called like zebra striping, where you drink

441
00:20:37,130 –> 00:20:39,729
Speaker 1: one alcohol, one non-alcohol. Cause you to moderate a little

442
00:20:39,750 –> 00:20:41,929
Speaker 1: bit more. We’re seeing growth there. And now there’s this

443
00:20:41,990 –> 00:20:45,169
Speaker 1: new thing called functional beverages. It’s not, that name is

444
00:20:45,270 –> 00:20:47,830
Speaker 1: not super consumer friendly. It’s probably not, not the right

445
00:20:47,850 –> 00:20:50,730
Speaker 1: word to use, but this idea of beverages that are

446
00:20:50,750 –> 00:20:53,870
Speaker 1: made with like lion’s mane and ashwagandha, I would even

447
00:20:53,910 –> 00:20:57,750
Speaker 1: include is probably not right, but like poppy sodas where

448
00:20:58,070 –> 00:21:00,770
Speaker 1: you have these soft drinks that have an effect on

449
00:21:00,810 –> 00:21:01,830
Speaker 1: your body. Right.

450
00:21:01,850 –> 00:21:03,609
Speaker 5: And that’s what alcohol does. I’ve got some effect on

451
00:21:03,630 –> 00:21:04,450
Speaker 5: your body, right?

452
00:21:04,530 –> 00:21:09,209
Speaker 1: It changes your mood, your behavior, your social interactions. And

453
00:21:09,270 –> 00:21:12,669
Speaker 1: I believe functional beverages have, you know, have effects on

454
00:21:12,690 –> 00:21:15,650
Speaker 1: your body. It’s not the same effects that alcohol has. Poppy,

455
00:21:15,710 –> 00:21:17,770
Speaker 1: I think, has famously focused it on, I’ll call it

456
00:21:17,810 –> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 1: more digestion probiotics. But some of the things like the

457
00:21:21,020 –> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: lion’s mane and the ashwagandha can be more focus driven

458
00:21:24,740 –> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: or help you calm down at night. There’s beverages that

459
00:21:27,260 –> 00:21:30,659
Speaker 1: have magnesium and magnesium to help you sleep. When I

460
00:21:30,660 –> 00:21:33,419
Speaker 1: think about when I joined Total Wine, there were three categories.

461
00:21:33,440 –> 00:21:34,470
Speaker 5: There’s wine, beer, and spirits.

462
00:21:35,090 –> 00:21:37,550
Speaker 1: And now when you start to include THC beverages, you

463
00:21:37,570 –> 00:21:40,210
Speaker 1: start to include these functional things. You start to include non-alcoholic.

464
00:21:40,609 –> 00:21:43,270
Speaker 1: There’s only three categories. It’s like an infinite number of

465
00:21:43,330 –> 00:21:47,180
Speaker 1: categories along a continuum. And it’s just, it’s not easy

466
00:21:47,260 –> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: to shop the categories anymore because it’s highly confusing.

467
00:21:50,760 –> 00:21:52,460
Speaker 5: Like, you know, where does this fall?

468
00:21:52,500 –> 00:21:56,580
Speaker 1: But I think all of those things are compelling to

469
00:21:56,619 –> 00:21:59,020
Speaker 1: our customers. And so we just keep expanding our assortment

470
00:21:59,220 –> 00:22:02,220
Speaker 1: and making sure we have a great selection. And I

471
00:22:02,240 –> 00:22:04,780
Speaker 1: think that keeps bringing people into the stores.

472
00:22:05,550 –> 00:22:09,409
Speaker 4: It’s so interesting. You guys are playing offense while a

473
00:22:09,450 –> 00:22:11,929
Speaker 4: lot of other people are playing defense. And when I

474
00:22:12,090 –> 00:22:16,609
Speaker 4: talk about what’s going on in the sector from a

475
00:22:17,060 –> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 4: manufacturer side, the portfolios that are winning are the ones

476
00:22:21,560 –> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 4: that have an M & A or an innovation strategy,

477
00:22:24,119 –> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 4: very similar to what you just described, versus some of

478
00:22:27,660 –> 00:22:29,859
Speaker 4: the players that are just really trying to hold on

479
00:22:29,880 –> 00:22:32,220
Speaker 4: to the old way of doing things. So it’ll be

480
00:22:32,260 –> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 4: interesting if they start to copy the Total Wine strategy.

481
00:22:35,950 –> 00:22:36,450
Speaker 5: Absolutely.

482
00:22:36,830 –> 00:22:37,210
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

483
00:22:37,810 –> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: Well, Brian, we got to ask you our famous last question,

484
00:22:40,380 –> 00:22:42,700
Speaker 4: which is what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

485
00:22:43,359 –> 00:22:46,740
Speaker 1: Oh man, I’ve been like dreading this question. I don’t

486
00:22:46,760 –> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: really think of myself as anyone that’s particularly brave. I

487
00:22:49,240 –> 00:22:53,010
Speaker 1: feel like I’ve made so many career leaps and moves.

488
00:22:53,050 –> 00:22:55,169
Speaker 1: I’ve lived in like four countries in my life. I’ve

489
00:22:55,190 –> 00:22:58,330
Speaker 1: changed career arc so many times. And at some point

490
00:22:58,369 –> 00:23:01,550
Speaker 1: it just becomes who you are as a person. So

491
00:23:01,570 –> 00:23:03,409
Speaker 1: I don’t think that anything I’ve particularly done is brave.

492
00:23:03,450 –> 00:23:04,820
Speaker 1: So I was trying to debate, I was going through

493
00:23:04,840 –> 00:23:07,060
Speaker 1: all my career stuff. I’ve been going through all my

494
00:23:07,119 –> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: personal stuff, looking for something brave. And I think the

495
00:23:09,540 –> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: one that I came up with, and this person might

496
00:23:12,119 –> 00:23:15,060
Speaker 1: kill me for telling the stories, I realized, and I

497
00:23:15,100 –> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: tell this story very rarely, is when I went on

498
00:23:18,080 –> 00:23:20,220
Speaker 1: my honeymoon with my wife, it was the longest amount

499
00:23:20,260 –> 00:23:21,300
Speaker 1: of time I’d ever.

500
00:23:21,160 –> 00:23:21,659
Speaker 5: Spent with her.

501
00:23:21,680 –> 00:23:24,500
Speaker 4: I gotta take myself off mute. That is really funny.

502
00:23:25,140 –> 00:23:26,220
Speaker 5: We dated, my wife and I.

503
00:23:26,140 –> 00:23:30,170
Speaker 1: Dated for like seven or eight years. And we lived

504
00:23:30,230 –> 00:23:33,950
Speaker 1: in different cities, different careers. And in fact, so we

505
00:23:33,970 –> 00:23:35,170
Speaker 1: went on our honeymoon, it was the longest amount of

506
00:23:35,190 –> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: time we had spent together. And then our first year

507
00:23:38,300 –> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: of marriage, we didn’t even live together. I was in

508
00:23:40,140 –> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: Philly in grad school and my wife was working in

509
00:23:42,280 –> 00:23:43,940
Speaker 1: DC on Capitol Hill.

510
00:23:44,260 –> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 5: So we only saw each other on weekends.

511
00:23:46,480 –> 00:23:49,379
Speaker 1: And so it wasn’t until a year after we got married,

512
00:23:49,480 –> 00:23:51,260
Speaker 1: when we moved to Chicago and that’s, and that’s where

513
00:23:51,300 –> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: I met Sarah when I was working for.

514
00:23:52,359 –> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 5: Kraft in Chicago.

515
00:23:53,800 –> 00:23:56,060
Speaker 1: But that was the first time my wife and I

516
00:23:56,280 –> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: ever spent more than like a week or two together.

517
00:23:58,850 –> 00:24:00,790
Speaker 1: was when we moved in after a year of marriage.

518
00:24:01,410 –> 00:24:04,390
Speaker 1: We’re still together 17 years later, a couple of kids

519
00:24:04,410 –> 00:24:08,590
Speaker 1: and multiple city moves. So I would say that was

520
00:24:08,630 –> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: probably the bravest thing, but a little bit outside.

521
00:24:11,600 –> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 3: Of the box.

522
00:24:12,430 –> 00:24:17,020
Speaker 4: That’s hysterical. I recently asked a mentor, how does she

523
00:24:18,060 –> 00:24:21,700
Speaker 4: make her marriage work? And she told me it’s because

524
00:24:21,720 –> 00:24:25,460
Speaker 4: they don’t really spend time together. So maybe that’s the secret.

525
00:24:25,520 –> 00:24:28,550
Speaker 5: Is there something to it? My wife travels quite a

526
00:24:28,550 –> 00:24:29,070
Speaker 5: bit for work.

527
00:24:29,130 –> 00:24:30,950
Speaker 1: And in my job, obviously, I travel quite a bit

528
00:24:30,990 –> 00:24:33,270
Speaker 1: going to different wine regions and meeting with wineries. And

529
00:24:33,310 –> 00:24:36,770
Speaker 1: so it feels like we’re apart more often than we’re together,

530
00:24:36,810 –> 00:24:39,570
Speaker 1: but it works out. It’s been 17 years later.

531
00:24:39,590 –> 00:24:40,449
Speaker 5: Like I said, it’s been great.

532
00:24:40,490 –> 00:24:43,260
Speaker 4: Well, we’ll find out if your wife listens to Brave Commerce,

533
00:24:43,580 –> 00:24:45,479
Speaker 4: if she brings this up at all.

534
00:24:45,760 –> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

535
00:24:46,619 –> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 4: And Brian, we’re so appreciative for all your insights, especially

536
00:24:49,160 –> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 4: your insights and leadership.

537
00:24:50,800 –> 00:24:52,340
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Thank you guys. Pleasure to be here.

538
00:24:53,880 –> 00:24:55,950
Speaker 4: If you like what you heard and you want to

539
00:24:55,990 –> 00:24:59,869
Speaker 4: go listen to an episode with another great military veteran

540
00:24:59,930 –> 00:25:02,530
Speaker 4: who has a lot of relevance to Brian and Sarah,

541
00:25:02,630 –> 00:25:05,810
Speaker 4: go check out an episode we did way back when

542
00:25:05,930 –> 00:25:09,410
Speaker 4: Howard Friedman was the CEO of Post. He’s now at Utz.

543
00:25:09,880 –> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 4: And Howard, this is a shout out that we’re going

544
00:25:11,859 –> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 4: to get you back on the show. And don’t forget

545
00:25:14,220 –> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 4: to write a review. Thanks for listening.

546
00:25:32,640 –> 00:25:36,620
Speaker 2: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

547
00:25:36,660 –> 00:25:39,419
Speaker 2: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

548
00:25:39,460 –> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

549
00:25:42,940 –> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: this incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once. As

550
00:25:46,680 –> 00:25:48,980
Speaker 2: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

551
00:25:49,040 –> 00:25:52,179
Speaker 2: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

552
00:25:52,380 –> 00:25:55,649
Speaker 2: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

553
00:25:55,690 –> 00:25:58,540
Speaker 2: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

554
00:25:58,580 –> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

555
00:26:01,100 –> 00:26:04,619
Speaker 2: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

556
00:26:04,830 –> 00:26:06,890
Speaker 2: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.