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Speaker 1: You know, one thing we have to keep in mind

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Speaker 1: as that 170-year-old eye health company is we are the

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Speaker 1: establishment or the expert in an environment where being that

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Speaker 1: isn’t necessarily a good thing. The degree or level of

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Speaker 1: trust in the traditional experts is not what it used

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Speaker 1: to be. We have to recognize that and branch out

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Speaker 1: beyond it. So one of the things that we do

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Speaker 1: is we do know that people, consumers, patients still do

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Speaker 1: trust medical professionals. And in our space, that’s the eye

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Speaker 1: care professionals. So we seek to partner, educate, work with,

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Speaker 1: and amplify ECPs who are active on social media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce. I’m Rachel Tippegraff,

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Speaker 2: the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 3: And I’m Sarah Hofstetter, chairwoman of Profitero Plus, and this

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Speaker 3: is a show that talks about what’s relevant in commerce

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Speaker 3: for the world’s biggest brands. Welcome to Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 2: This question is going to be funny, Sarah. Where do

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Speaker 2: you buy your drugs?

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: You’re right.

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Speaker 3: That was okay. Which kinds of drugs are we talking about?

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Speaker 2: Regulated drugs.

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Speaker 1: Oh, oh my God.

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Speaker 3: I’m so, so sorry. It’s a good question. And it

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Speaker 3: kind of depends. I’m an old school traditionalist. I go

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Speaker 3: to my local CVS. I know my pharmacist. It’s generally

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Speaker 3: how I roll. Not exclusive, but it’s definitely a super majority.

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Speaker 3: How about you, my friend?

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Speaker 2: Oddly enough, we’re quite similar here. CVS, because it’s the

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Speaker 2: closest pharmacy to me. I have to tell you, my

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Speaker 2: wife knows this. I dread going there.

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Speaker 3: Say more.

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Speaker 2: Lack of staff. You can feel the cost cutting measures.

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Speaker 2: And the fact that I often have to wait for

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Speaker 2: someone to help me products that are on the shelves

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Speaker 2: because they’re behind a locked box.

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Speaker 3: So if I’m getting prescription, I go to CVS. If

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Speaker 3: I am getting anything else, OTC, I use the internet.

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Speaker 3: It is way, way too difficult. The barrier to conversion

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Speaker 3: is so high. And I don’t know how much the

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Speaker 3: suppliers understand that. But at this point, think about the

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Speaker 3: drug channel in general. Like you said, there’s one down

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Speaker 3: the block from you. There are like three within a

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Speaker 3: mile of me. It’s great that you’ve got that ubiquity,

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Speaker 3: but you’ve gotten the ubiquity and you’ve lost the convenience. Yep.

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Speaker 3: I don’t know where my closest Amazon dark store is,

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Speaker 3: but I can certainly tell you that I don’t need

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Speaker 3: somebody to open up a damn lockbox for me to

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Speaker 3: be able to get insert anything.

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Speaker 2: Here. Yeah. You can just feel like the lack of

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Speaker 2: longevity that is going to exist in that strategy.

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Speaker 3: Something’s got to change. We saw what happened with all

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Speaker 3: the Rite Aid closures and others. Something’s got to change

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Speaker 3: in order for this entire channel to work because the

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Speaker 3: benefit of the real estate is completely lost in the

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Speaker 3: lack of service. And I do believe that that applies

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Speaker 3: to the digital world as well because The more convenient

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Speaker 3: option than going to your corner store is paying your

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Speaker 3: DoorDash shopper to.

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Speaker 1: Go to the corner store for you.

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Speaker 3: And if they don’t want to wait around for somebody

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Speaker 3: to go open a box for them, I can assure you,

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Speaker 3: you’re going to get substituted out as well. For manufacturers,

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Speaker 3: as we think about the new year and all of

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Speaker 3: our resolutions and all of the things that we would

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Speaker 3: normally go to the drugstore for, where does one turn

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Speaker 3: to for both convenience and advice and ease of conversions?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, let’s not answer that question ourselves, but bring on

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Speaker 2: an operator who has spent the majority of his career

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Speaker 2: working within consumer health care. We will bring John Farris

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Speaker 2: onto the show. Today, we are very excited to have

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Speaker 2: John Farris, the president of consumer at Bosch & Lomb. Hey, John.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Rachel. Great to be here.

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Speaker 2: Super excited to have you. You are officially the first

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Speaker 2: episode we’re recording in 2026, so it can only go

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Speaker 2: up or down from here.

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Speaker 1: We’re going to set the bar really, really high.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: We’re going to set the bar high.

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Speaker 2: We want a challenge this year. Speaking of some impressive feats,

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Speaker 2: Bosh & Lomb, the company’s been around for 170 years.

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Speaker 2: I can’t think of many companies that have been around

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Speaker 2: that long with a deep history in eye care. And

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Speaker 2: it’s funny, when I was preparing for this show- I

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Speaker 2: realize that I probably have not thought much about my

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Speaker 2: eye health, which maybe is not unique to me. How

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Speaker 2: do you get consumers to care about their eye health?

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Speaker 1: You’re certainly not alone. And you’re right. Bausch & Lomb

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Speaker 1: has this wonderful 170-year legacy in eye health, which is fantastic.

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Speaker 1: It’s a well-known brand to consumers and eye care practitioners.

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Speaker 1: But with that comes a lot of responsibility for really

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Speaker 1: educating consumers and making them more aware of their eye health.

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Speaker 1: We’ve done numerous surveys that show that consumers will rate

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Speaker 1: vision as their most valued or most treasured sense, but

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Speaker 1: then they take it for granted. It’s a bit of

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Speaker 1: a conundrum. They won’t take action unless there’s something wrong.

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Speaker 1: So we see that as a responsibility on our part, right?

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Speaker 1: To raise awareness, to educate consumers. We believe the most

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Speaker 1: important aspect of that is driving them to their eye

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Speaker 1: care professional for an annual eye exam. And it’s funny,

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Speaker 1: we talk about an annual eye exam, But most people

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Speaker 1: get one maybe once every two or three years, if then.

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Speaker 1: So we really want to change that behavior. So we’re

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Speaker 1: all about educating consumers, raising awareness of the different eye

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Speaker 1: health conditions, but really making that connection with their eye

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Speaker 1: care practitioner as really the starting point.

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Speaker 2: Sarah, when was the last time you got your eyes checked?

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Speaker 3: Last week.

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Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right, Phoebe.

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Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah. All right, Rachel, how about you?

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Speaker 2: I don’t even want to tell you guys.

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Speaker 3: You and I, and again, sorry for our listeners to

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Speaker 3: hear me drone on. We are in different generations, the

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Speaker 3: two of us. Once you hit a certain age, you

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Speaker 3: get to a point where your eye health becomes more

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Speaker 3: important because your eyes tell you your eye health becomes

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Speaker 3: more important.

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Speaker 1: That 45?

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Speaker 2: That it is.

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Speaker 3: So you’ve got a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That’s exactly right. So when people do notice a change

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Speaker 1: in their vision and midlife is absolutely one of those,

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Speaker 1: People start to experience presbyopia, difficulty in low light or

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Speaker 1: reading close up. That’s certainly a trigger point, but so

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Speaker 1: much could be going on with your eyes in between.

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Speaker 1: And that’s really the opportunity to educate consumers.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I would say once you start going to

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Speaker 3: a real professional and it’s not just about checking your vision,

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Speaker 3: but the total eye care, you realize actually all the

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Speaker 3: things that you need to know, that is something that

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Speaker 3: we all kind of need to get better educated about.

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Speaker 3: That being said- You know, a lot of that kind

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Speaker 3: of plays into broader health and wellness trends. We as

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Speaker 3: consumers become more interested in sourcing more and more information

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Speaker 3: before we do anything, whether it’s before we go see

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Speaker 3: a professional, before we put anything on or in our bodies.

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Speaker 3: There’s so much science that’s involved, but then there are

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Speaker 3: so many other people that are deemed these like influencers

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Speaker 3: that are just frankly self-named. How do you balance that

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Speaker 3: whole expertise and especially when you’re dealing with like HCPs

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Speaker 3: and stuff like that with this social first influencer type environment,

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Speaker 3: especially when there’s such a critical set of messages that

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Speaker 3: you’re trying to get across?

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Speaker 1: That’s a great question. And You know, one thing we

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Speaker 1: have to keep in mind as that 170-year-old eye health

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Speaker 1: company is we are the establishment or the expert in

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Speaker 1: an environment where being that isn’t necessarily a good thing.

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Speaker 1: The degree or level of trust in the traditional experts

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Speaker 1: is not what it used to be. We have to

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Speaker 1: recognize that and branch out beyond it. So one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we do is we do know that people, consumers,

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Speaker 1: patients still do trust medical professionals. And in our space,

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Speaker 1: that’s the eye care professional. So we seek to partner, educate,

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Speaker 1: work with, and amplify ECPs who are active on social media, right?

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Speaker 1: So who are leaning in and have their influencers. They’re

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Speaker 1: on these social channels. They’re making the funny TikTok videos

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Speaker 1: that are educational, that really gain traction. That to us

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Speaker 1: is a really important way, right? Saying, hey, let’s lean

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Speaker 1: in and let’s partner with that new It tends to

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Speaker 1: be a younger but not always eye care professional who’s

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Speaker 1: embracing these new channels, knowing that they will be viewed

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Speaker 1: as a trusted health source. You know, another place, and

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Speaker 1: we’re already involved here, and then there was this announcement just,

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Speaker 1: I think, yesterday about ChatGPT Health. You know, generative AI

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Speaker 1: chatbots are already being used for health information. And, you know,

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Speaker 1: the way they generate the content that they’re serving to

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Speaker 1: their users is very different. And so we know that

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Speaker 1: we need to adapt to that new environment. We need

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Speaker 1: to make sure that that chatbot who is going to

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Speaker 1: be trusted or it looks like is going to be trusted,

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Speaker 1: that they’re getting information that is as accurate and as

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Speaker 1: timely as possible for the consumer. And, you know, frankly,

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Speaker 1: today it’s not where it should be, especially in our space.

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Speaker 1: So we’re working very hard to publish, create and distribute

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Speaker 1: more content that carries that aura, expertise, authority, and trustworthy.

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Speaker 1: So those chatbots will serve it to their users. It’s exciting.

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Speaker 1: And it’s also scary. I use those chatbots. I don’t

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Speaker 1: know if either of you do, but I have used

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Speaker 1: ChatGPT for health questions. And then when I use it

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Speaker 1: for eye health questions to see the quality of the information,

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Speaker 1: we hear a lot that these chatbots are 85% accurate.

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Speaker 1: That’s where it feels like the information is today. And 85%

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Speaker 1: isn’t good enough.

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Speaker 3: I love the idea of making sure that the influencers

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Speaker 3: that you guys work with the most are the ones

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Speaker 3: that are actually like your professionals, but then you’ve got this,

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Speaker 3: this 85% world. And, you know, I don’t know about,

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Speaker 3: you know, your folks growing up. If I came home

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Speaker 3: with an 85, my parents would just be like, what

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Speaker 3: happened to the other 15?

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Speaker 1: That’s not so good, right? That’s not good enough.

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Speaker 3: Whether it’s the chatbots or even search engines like Google

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Speaker 3: with Gemini, as these are becoming more and more critical,

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Speaker 3: how do you think about optimizing even your content or

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Speaker 3: creating different kinds of content for, if nothing else, the

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Speaker 3: bots to ensure that you’re both improving accuracy and that

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Speaker 3: you’re the go-to source? Where does that sit even like

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Speaker 3: at your executive level? Like how do you find a

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Speaker 3: way for your brain not to hurt to think about that?

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Speaker 1: That’s an interesting way to put it. I mean, hey,

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Speaker 1: first and foremost, we absolutely see it as an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: We started out talking about how consumers were taking their

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Speaker 1: eye health for granted, right? We think this is a

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Speaker 1: great way that we can influence that and change that

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Speaker 1: behavior or mindset, but you have to lean into it.

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Speaker 1: So I think as a company and within my team,

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Speaker 1: We’ve set ground rules, internal rules of engagement. Rather than

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Speaker 1: take a wait and see approach, we’ve started to move

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Speaker 1: forward already. We know it’s not going to be perfect,

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Speaker 1: but the opportunity is there, but also the responsibility. So

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Speaker 1: there’s no playbook that exists. You have to be brave.

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Speaker 1: You have to be courageous and take those steps. What

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Speaker 1: we do know is we know the science. And so

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Speaker 1: we are starting from a place of expertise and authority.

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Speaker 1: as we keep it grounded in the science and we

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Speaker 1: learn the rules of the road, right? Where you need

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Speaker 1: to publish content. One source that’s come up, Reddit. These

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Speaker 1: chatbots go to Reddit as a source of expertise, right?

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Speaker 1: So we’ve never played in Reddit. We’ve never been involved

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Speaker 1: in that space. So we’re quickly learning how to do that.

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Speaker 1: We do know that the professional associations and third-party websites

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Speaker 1: do have that credibility. And so we’re making sure that

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Speaker 1: we’re partnering with those organizations who we always have, to

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Speaker 1: make them aware of how important their content is and

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Speaker 1: how important it is that it’s structured in the right

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Speaker 1: way so that it shows up. And we do have

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Speaker 1: a doctor who’s a strategic advisor to us. And I

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Speaker 1: was speaking to her actually just the other day at

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Speaker 1: our leadership meeting. And she said she had a patient

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Speaker 1: come in who had health information from ChatGPT, which frankly

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Speaker 1: was not accurate. And The patient didn’t believe her that

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Speaker 1: it wasn’t accurate. It wanted to believe the AI. So

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Speaker 1: the patient’s response was, no, you’re wrong. This is right.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that speaks to the challenge here.

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Speaker 2: Very similar to what you’re describing. When new challenger brands

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Speaker 2: come to market that don’t have as robust of legal teams,

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Speaker 2: or maybe the spine from 170 years of credibility and

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Speaker 2: caring about the end consumer in the way that you

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Speaker 2: guys do, How do you combat that fake news around claims?

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Speaker 2: We see this a lot in the beauty category. Companies

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Speaker 2: like L’Oreal, Estee Lauder, they’re hardcore about the claims that

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Speaker 2: they put out there. And then you see indie beauty

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Speaker 2: brands come to market that just say whatever they want.

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Speaker 2: And that really seems to cut through in an environment

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Speaker 2: like TikTok. So how do you guys combat these challenger

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Speaker 2: brands that might have unfair claims?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely a challenge. And we face it in our supplements business.

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Speaker 1: So nutritional supplements, right? famous for startup or challenger brands

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Speaker 1: being more than loose with the rules. You mentioned beauty.

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Speaker 1: We have our Lumify retina reliever product, and we’ve seen

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Speaker 1: knockoff versions there. Hey, we always start again with, we

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Speaker 1: are not going to change our DNA and who we are.

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Speaker 1: So we have to be true to, we are that

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Speaker 1: 170-year-old eye health company. We do have expertise and scientific credibility,

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Speaker 1: but we need to make it approachable. I think what

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Speaker 1: those brands do a great job of is they tell

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Speaker 1: a story that people can relate to, they can digest,

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Speaker 1: and it seems compelling. So we have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that we serve up our content, that we speak to

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Speaker 1: the consumer in a way, in a similar way, but

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Speaker 1: do it from that place of scientific credibility.

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Speaker 3: We’re talking a lot about brand discovery. When it comes

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Speaker 3: down to bringing those consumers further down the funnel onto

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Speaker 3: ultimately the buying, whether that is, you know, direct, in-store, e-commerce, whatnot.

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Speaker 3: How do you think about the journey and how that’s changed?

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Speaker 3: And even organizationally, are there things that you guys have

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Speaker 3: done to pivot based on that?

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Speaker 1: Well, so first that journey has absolutely changed, right? I

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Speaker 1: used to say that it was evolving. Now I think

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Speaker 1: the word disruption is maybe fair to use. And I

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Speaker 1: think that word’s overused. I think it does apply here, right? Hey,

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Speaker 1: We’re quickly moving to a place where an AI agent

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Speaker 1: is going to make that purchase for you, right? Not

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Speaker 1: only is that where you’re going to discover the product,

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Speaker 1: but then that purchase is going to be made for

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Speaker 1: you increasingly with agentic AI. So as a team, we

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Speaker 1: have to challenge ourselves to make sure we understand how

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Speaker 1: this new world operates. There’s the way the world used

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Speaker 1: to be, and that was fantastic. We have to be

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Speaker 1: prepared to win in the way the world’s moving. So

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Speaker 1: one is, again, that sense that we have to move fast,

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Speaker 1: can’t wait for it to happen, start moving forward already,

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Speaker 1: which we have. We’ve onboarded new external partners, whether they’re

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Speaker 1: agencies to advise us, whether they’re technology plays that help

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Speaker 1: make sure that our products are easy to purchase in

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Speaker 1: that agentic environment. We’ve already made some moves there. Internally,

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Speaker 1: from a talent perspective, I restructured my team with more

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Speaker 1: of an emphasis on digital commerce and digital marketing. We’ve

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Speaker 1: restructured and put resources there. And we’re also upskilling our teams.

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Speaker 1: We’re making sure that we’ve made an investment as a

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Speaker 1: company across our entire company to upskill our colleagues on

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Speaker 1: AI competency. You have to be competent in it to

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Speaker 1: execute against it, right? We’re really encouraging that. Frankly, it

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Speaker 1: was voluntary in 2025. In 2026, it’s mandatory, right? And

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Speaker 1: it’s considered to be part of your personal professional development,

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Speaker 1: and it will be mandatory moving forward. So we’re upskilling

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Speaker 1: our team. We’re bringing in new partners and new technologies,

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Speaker 1: and we’re just going to continue to do that.

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Speaker 2: It’s awesome to see the investments and the emphasis from

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Speaker 2: the top. You talked a lot about new ways of

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Speaker 2: doing things. You’ve spent the majority of your career working

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Speaker 2: in consumer healthcare, and it feels like the tides, they

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Speaker 2: have been changing for a while, but they’re really changing

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Speaker 2: on the channel side. When you think about what you’re

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Speaker 2: your retail sales were probably 20 years ago. I’m guessing

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Speaker 2: names like CVS and Walgreens were at the top. As

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Speaker 2: a consumer, it’s quite easy to see there’s a lot

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Speaker 2: of change happening right now within drug. What do you

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Speaker 2: think is the future of drug as a channel?

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Speaker 1: Great question. You’re absolutely right. Our mix of channel is

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Speaker 1: absolutely changing. Digital commerce, obviously Amazon is the juggernaut there,

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Speaker 1: but Walmart and then places like Instacart and TikTok shop

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Speaker 1: are quickly rising. So Super fast change. Hey, Drug was

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Speaker 1: slow to latch on to Omnichannel. They didn’t, I think,

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Speaker 1: see the future in digital commerce or resistant or just

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Speaker 1: too slow to move. They’re trying to play catch up. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Walgreens is in a very difficult situation. And if we

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Speaker 1: were having this conversation five years ago or six years ago,

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Speaker 1: I would have said Walgreens was one of my star

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Speaker 1: customers and one of my fastest growing customers. And now

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Speaker 1: it’s the opposite. Nothing against Walgreens. I hope they right

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Speaker 1: their ship. CVS, frankly, is doing a little better. So

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Speaker 1: it’s interesting to see that dichotomy. But think about it.

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Speaker 1: Eckerd and Rite Aid went away. There used to be

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Speaker 1: four big drug retailers. We’re down to two. Maybe we’ll

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Speaker 1: see a world where we only have one. I think

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Speaker 1: they have to figure out what their business model is

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Speaker 1: moving forward. CVS seems to be doing a better job

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Speaker 1: of that at the moment. And Walgreens has to turn

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Speaker 1: it around. But I think it shows that you can’t

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Speaker 1: take the consumer for granted. You have to go out

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Speaker 1: and earn their trust and earn their dollar every day.

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Speaker 1: That’s whether you’re a brand, whether you’re a retailer, whether

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Speaker 1: you’re a digital commerce retailer, you have to go out

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Speaker 1: and earn that business every day.

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Speaker 3: It’s a great point. And the shifts in drug are

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Speaker 3: pretty extraordinary. But even if you look at that section,

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Speaker 3: even in these larger stores like Target and Walmart, one

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Speaker 3: thing that has been A theme that I’ve heard about

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Speaker 3: from a number of companies, I’m curious if it’s something

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Speaker 3: that you’ve experienced, is because so much products that are

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Speaker 3: bought at drug are often fulfilled, not necessarily by the

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Speaker 3: cbs.com or Walgreens.com, but more the Instacarts and the DoorDashes,

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Speaker 3: when they walk into the actual retail experience, if they

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Speaker 3: are behind lock and key, they’ll substitute. And it seems

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 1: Is a hidden.

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Speaker 3: barrier for omnichannel conversion. Have you seen anything like that?

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Speaker 3: And if so, how do you go about trying to

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Speaker 3: change that dynamic with your customers?

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Speaker 1: The consumer, the shopper is absolutely all about convenience today, right?

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Speaker 1: And anything that causes friction is going to cause them

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Speaker 1: or many of them to look elsewhere. And again, it’s

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Speaker 1: interesting if you think about it, drug used to be

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Speaker 1: about convenience. There was a Walgreens or a CVS on

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Speaker 1: every corner. They were on the right corner. And it

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Speaker 1: was about convenience, right? And they could command a price

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Speaker 1: premium because of that. Well, now, if you think about it,

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Speaker 1: you can be in a Walgreens or CVS waiting for

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Speaker 1: your prescription to be filled. Half the time you’re doing

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Speaker 1: it through a drive-thru, so you’re not in the front end.

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Speaker 1: But if you’ve gone in the store and you’re waiting

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Speaker 1: for your prescription to be filled, let’s call it the

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Speaker 1: old-fashioned way, and you wander off to the OTC section

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Speaker 1: and everything’s behind lock and key, well, it’s easier to

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Speaker 1: order it on Amazon on your phone and have it

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Speaker 1: almost at your doorstep when you get home or certainly

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Speaker 1: shortly after than it is to try to find staff

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Speaker 1: to open that lock.

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Speaker 3: Or trade down to the private label that’s not necessarily

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Speaker 3: behind lock and key.

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Speaker 1: That’s exactly right. So our Lumify brand, unfortunately, if you

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Speaker 1: go in in many stores is locked up that is

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Speaker 1: a challenge for us we are working on anti-theft alternatives

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Speaker 1: or options with the trade we see it has a

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Speaker 1: clear impact on consumption we’re fortunate with our lumify brand

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Speaker 1: that there isn’t private label that consumer moves to another

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Speaker 1: store they will.

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Speaker 2: Well, John, we could pick your brain all day. I

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Speaker 2: love the level of humility that you are bringing to

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Speaker 2: the conversation. We have to ask you our famous last question,

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Speaker 2: which is, what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: All right. So I had to think about this one

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Honestly, I don’t know if I’ve ever

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Speaker 1: thought that I’ve done anything that courageous. But I have

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Speaker 1: listened to your podcast. And I recall a guest last

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Speaker 1: year talking about deciding not to move his family. not

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Speaker 1: to take the chance of doing something and choosing work-life balance.

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Speaker 1: And that worked out for him, which is fantastic. I

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Speaker 1: actually took the opposite approach once. So I had a

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Speaker 1: really great career going and a fantastic situation, was well-regarded,

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Speaker 1: career was advancing. I had a six-month-old, or I guess

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Speaker 1: he was nine months old at the time. We had

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Speaker 1: onsite childcare. I actually was the working parent taking my

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Speaker 1: son to childcare at my location. I had the diaper

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Speaker 1: bag over the shoulder and all that. And we had

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Speaker 1: family close by and it was actually fantastic. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to go into another part of the business out of

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Speaker 1: state that frankly was the larger, you know, was the

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Speaker 1: larger pond in the company. And I took that chance.

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Speaker 1: And my wife and I moved our family. Again, we

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Speaker 1: had a nine month old and another one on the way.

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Speaker 1: And we moved away from all, you know, from that

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Speaker 1: support network, the family. And honestly, it wasn’t easy. Making

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Speaker 1: that career transition with all that life transition wasn’t easy.

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Speaker 1: I went from being someone who was super well-regarded on

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Speaker 1: a clear trajectory to needing to gain traction. And it

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Speaker 1: took a while. And I did second guess myself. It

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Speaker 1: turned out to be an incredible growth experience. It really

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Speaker 1: did professionally and personally. We made new friends on the

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Speaker 1: personal side and got a whole different perspective living in

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Speaker 1: a different area of the country. A, I had to

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Speaker 1: dig deeper. I gained new confidence and new skills. And

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Speaker 1: I wouldn’t be where I’m at in my career today

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Speaker 1: if I hadn’t made that move. So I guess that’s

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Speaker 1: what I’m going to say. That’s probably the most courageous

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Speaker 1: thing I’ve ever done.

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Speaker 2: Love that side of the story. And your kid was

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Speaker 2: nine months. So it’s not like they remembered.

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Speaker 1: They don’t. We ended up moving back. So they were

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Speaker 1: five when we moved back. So they do talk and

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Speaker 1: they miss. They miss where we were living before sometimes.

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Speaker 1: So that’s great. So we know they have a memory,

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Speaker 1: but yeah.

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Speaker 2: John, we appreciate you sharing all these insights, especially at

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Speaker 2: the top of the year. So much disruption happening, not

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Speaker 2: just in consumer behavior, but wellness and healthcare. And it’s

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Speaker 2: great to see you at the forefront of it.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I’ve enjoyed being with you and thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me.

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Speaker 2: If you like what you heard and you want to

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00:22:34,700 –> 00:22:38,979
Speaker 2: keep thinking about healthcare, consumer healthcare in particular from different angles,

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Speaker 2: go check out an episode we recorded in 2025 with

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Speaker 2: Organic Care’s Carol Ann Goodner, or go check out our

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00:22:46,850 –> 00:22:50,170
Speaker 2: pal Megan from Comb. If you like what you heard,

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00:22:50,270 –> 00:22:52,780
Speaker 2: tell a friend, write a review. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 3: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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Speaker 3: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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00:23:18,690 –> 00:23:22,129
Speaker 3: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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00:23:22,170 –> 00:23:25,430
Speaker 3: this incredibly smart piece of advice, meet everyone once.

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Speaker 1: As a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating

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Speaker 1: and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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00:23:31,600 –> 00:23:34,859
Speaker 1: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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00:23:34,920 –> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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00:23:37,780 –> 00:23:40,270
Speaker 1: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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00:23:40,310 –> 00:23:43,850
Speaker 1: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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Speaker 1: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.