Brave Commerce

Hosted ByRachel Tipograph & Sarah Hofstetter

MikMak Founder & CEO Rachel Tipograph and Profitero’s President Sarah Hofstetter tackle what’s relevant in eCommerce today for the world’s biggest brands. Each episode they’ll share tips worth millions in sales, while interviewing the bravest marketers on how to navigate eCommerce’s latest consumer and retailer dynamics.

BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode 102: Sarah Travis of Roundel on Revolutionizing Retail Media and Inclusive Leadership

Brave Commerce
Brave Commerce
BRAVE COMMERCE | Episode 102: Sarah Travis of Roundel on Revolutionizing Retail Media and Inclusive Leadership
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In this episode of BRAVE COMMERCE, Sarah Travis, President at Roundel, joins hosts Rachel Tipograph and Sarah Hofstetter to offer insights into the challenges and opportunities shaping the future of retail media, her perspectives on work-life balance, and diversity in leadership roles.

Sarah reflects on her remarkable 13-year tenure at Google, where she witnessed significant changes and growth within the company. Sarah was drawn to Roundel by the opportunity to leverage her functional expertise in advertising and her admiration for Target as a brand. She highlights Target’s strong culture, talented workforce, and advanced position in the retail media landscape as key factors influencing her decision to join Roundel.

The conversation further explores the evolution of retail media and Roundel’s role in shaping the industry. Sarah emphasizes the importance of collaboration and standardization within the retail media space, particularly in areas such as measurement and privacy. While advocating for industry-wide standards, she also highlights the significance of preserving each retailer’s unique offerings and brand identity.

As the conversation shifts towards the future of retail media, Sarah discusses Roundel’s holistic approach to advertising, spanning both on-site and off-site channels. She acknowledges the growing significance of channels like Connected TV (CTV) and in-store advertising, emphasizing Roundel’s commitment to reaching consumers at every stage of their shopping journey.

Beyond her insights into the retail media landscape, Sarah shares her passion for promoting diversity and inclusion in the workplace, particularly in leadership roles. Drawing from her own experiences, she highlights the importance of mentorship and support networks in empowering women to navigate their careers and achieve work-life balance.

Key Takeaways:

●Develop an omnichannel strategy to reach customers wherever they are in their shopping journey

●Stay agile and adaptable to changes in the marketing landscape

●Encourage a culture of continuous learning and development within your organization


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Speaker 1: We all know that having diverse voices at the table

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Speaker 1: is how you deliver the best business results for a business.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that brings me the most

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Speaker 1: joy as a leader is seeing what happens when you

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Speaker 1: do that. The most obvious places that you would look

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Speaker 1: is to make sure that you’ve got racial diversity, that

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Speaker 1: you’ve got gender diversity on that team. But, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think work styles, life experiences… Bringing people together from

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Speaker 1: diverse backgrounds, it’s how you make business run and deliver results.

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Speaker 1: And it’s also how you bring happiness and joy into

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Speaker 1: the workplace. So it’s such a critical element of any

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Speaker 1: leadership role.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: I’m Rachel Tippegraph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstetter, president of Profitero.

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Speaker 3: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 3: in e-commerce for the world’s biggest brands.

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Speaker 4: Sarah, you built your.

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Speaker 3: Whole career while having young kids.

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Speaker 5: Is that.

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Speaker 4: accurate?

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Speaker 2: Well, considering I started having kids at 12, absolutely. Not

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Speaker 2: terribly far after. If I would have told you that

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Speaker 2: I had a plan, I’d be completely lying. I started

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Speaker 2: having kids when I was so young that I did

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Speaker 2: not realize how hard it would be to have kids

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Speaker 2: and balance a career. I also didn’t know that I

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Speaker 2: necessarily have a career. So when you like wake up

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Speaker 2: one morning and you’re like, I don’t know, 30, a

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Speaker 2: homeowner with two kids and like running a big portion

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Speaker 2: in accountability. And then you get a call that your

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Speaker 2: kid has lice. Like it’s not the end of the world,

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Speaker 2: but it’s something where you have to drop what you’re

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Speaker 2: doing and you can’t delegate that job to somebody else.

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Speaker 1: What on earth am I going to do now?

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Speaker 2: You’re in a meeting.

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Speaker 4: And it’s not just having kids. It’s life. Life gets

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Speaker 4: in the way. But you know what that’s like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I wouldn’t say I’m a good example of

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Speaker 3: anything when it comes to this. So I’m curious, like

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Speaker 3: you have young kids, your career is accelerating. How did

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Speaker 3: you figure out how to stay connected to both your

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Speaker 3: career and your children?

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Speaker 5: Terribly.

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Speaker 2: I did an absolutely terrible job.

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Speaker 4: But that’s my own.

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Speaker 2: That’s the combination of Jewish guilt and mother guilt and

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Speaker 2: outside family pressure, not even inside family pressure. I think

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest challenges that I had was that

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Speaker 2: there were like norms that were foisted upon me when

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Speaker 2: my kids were younger, which by the way, it’s like

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Speaker 2: 20 years ago, which is just so mind-blowingly bananas. My

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Speaker 2: kids are 24 and 22 now. The whole idea that

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Speaker 2: you always needed to be in two to five places

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Speaker 2: at once based on various work, home commitments, not to

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Speaker 2: mention taking care of yourself, like self-care was just not

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Speaker 2: even a thing. So when I talked to people today

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Speaker 2: and they talk about conflicting priorities, like, you know, back

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Speaker 2: to work, for example.

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Speaker 4: And I’m like, really?

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Speaker 2: I’m empathetic to a high degree, but I think I

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Speaker 2: probably spent a big portion of my kids earlier years

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Speaker 2: feeling like I was never doing enough either at home

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Speaker 2: or at work until I don’t even remember who it

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Speaker 2: was had given me this idea.

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Speaker 4: There were a few different thoughts.

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Speaker 2: One was what’s right for right now. And those can

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Speaker 2: be very different things from what’s right for tomorrow or

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Speaker 2: what was right for yesterday. And it’s not a matter

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Speaker 2: of always being able to know what the right choice is,

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Speaker 2: but you have to kind of make these gut choices

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Speaker 2: in the moment. And the whole concept of work-life balance

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Speaker 2: is not really a thing. It’s more of a series

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Speaker 2: of choices and keeping.

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Speaker 4: Your North Star straight.

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Speaker 2: I don’t think I ever was able to to do

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Speaker 2: what our guest today has articulated, which is releasing the guilt.

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Speaker 2: When Sarah said that today, I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: wish somebody had said that to me 20 something years ago.

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Speaker 2: Just release the guilt. That was like a mental game

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Speaker 2: changer for me. And the kind of authenticity that she

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Speaker 2: was bringing to the conversation today made me want to

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Speaker 2: have a do-over. But I mean, how often do we

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Speaker 2: want that, Rach?

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Speaker 3: Well, you’re in for a real treat. We’re about to

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Speaker 3: bring on Sarah Travis, who is the president of Roundel.

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Speaker 3: If you don’t know what Roundel is, you actually do.

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Speaker 3: It’s Target’s retail media group that they call Roundel. And

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Speaker 3: Sarah is going to give her take on work-life balance

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Speaker 3: as a executive working mother and overall parent, as well

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Speaker 3: as what’s happening in the space of retail media. So

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Speaker 3: let’s bring Sarah onto the show.

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Speaker 4: Another Sarah.

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Speaker 2: Are we going into like another zone here? What’s going on?

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Speaker 2: I am so excited to have you, Sarah.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for having me. I’m thrilled to be here.

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Speaker 2: We have been eagerly awaiting this episode and I know

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Speaker 2: our audiences too. You’ve got such an interesting story yourself

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Speaker 2: as an individual, as well as what you’re doing at Roundel.

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Speaker 2: We really want to kind of get into the nitty

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Speaker 2: gritty of it, shall we?

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Speaker 1: We should do it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I’m excited. Let’s go.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, first, let’s take a quick trip down

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Speaker 2: memory lane. So before you joined Roundel, you spent 13

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Speaker 2: years at Google, which is super impressive. What makes you

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Speaker 2: decide to take the leap from Google, which was transformative

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Speaker 2: in its own right, to Roundel, which is transformative in

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Speaker 2: its own right, but.

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Speaker 4: Very big switch. Very big switch.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about what went into your head as you

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Speaker 2: were considering that.

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Speaker 1: It is a big switch. Yeah. And it’s been an

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Speaker 1: amazing run over the past couple of years being at Rondell.

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Speaker 1: And I also had a really incredible run at Google,

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Speaker 1: like you said, 13 years. And when I reflect back

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Speaker 1: on that time, so I started back in 2007 as

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Speaker 1: an MBA intern and then joined Google full-time in 2008.

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Speaker 1: And when I think back, like 2007, 2008 doesn’t feel

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Speaker 1: that long ago, but in Google years, it is a

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Speaker 1: lifetime ago. So the company had a successful search engine, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but YouTube had just been acquired. DoubleClick had just been acquired.

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Speaker 1: Cloud wasn’t a thing. I was toting my BlackBerry everywhere

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Speaker 1: I went. And I often actually reflect on that now

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Speaker 1: that I’m a couple of years out on what an

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Speaker 1: incredible journey that was to be part of that growth

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Speaker 1: and to be part of that evolution. It was such

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Speaker 1: a gift from a career perspective. I learned so much

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Speaker 1: about how to manage through change, how to manage businesses

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Speaker 1: through various phases of growth. And when I think back

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Speaker 1: about what attracted me to the job, It was a

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Speaker 1: leap for me, but it wasn’t a huge leap because

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Speaker 1: I knew I could lean on my functional expertise, right?

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Speaker 1: I had been working in advertising for a long time.

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Speaker 1: My last job at Google was managing our large retail practice.

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Speaker 1: So I knew I could tap into that. But I

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Speaker 1: realized actually very quickly that the fact that I had

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Speaker 1: managed and had a number of different jobs at Google,

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Speaker 1: that I had led teams through various types of change,

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Speaker 1: that blew my functional expertise out of the water. And

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Speaker 1: side note, has been a major change in the way

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Speaker 1: that I have coached and developed talent over the past

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Speaker 1: couple of years, knowing how meaningful that was and my

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Speaker 1: ability to be successful in this job. So first and foremost,

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Speaker 1: I would say my functional expertise attracted me to the job,

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Speaker 1: but even more important than that, I would say Target.

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Speaker 1: Target is a brand, is a brand that nurtures love

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Speaker 1: and loyalty. I have been a long fan of the company.

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Speaker 1: Some of my proudest moments are when my friends and

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Speaker 1: family talk about experiences that they had at Target. And

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Speaker 1: then I have the visibility as a business leader, right?

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Speaker 1: Like I understood the culture. I understood how strong the

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Speaker 1: talent was. And then you add Rondell to the mix.

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Speaker 1: I got a lot of visibility in my last job

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Speaker 1: at Google in terms of where the retailers were in

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Speaker 1: their evolution around retail media. And I saw that Rondell

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Speaker 1: was advanced. I understood that it had the tech and

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Speaker 1: talent to be successful. And so… In a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: it was like a career dream come true to be

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Speaker 1: able to tap into my functional expertise and a brand

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Speaker 1: that I love and to be able to take this

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Speaker 1: business into its next phase of growth.

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Speaker 2: I think it’s pretty extraordinary that you seem to be

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Speaker 2: in the right place at the right time on a

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Speaker 2: lot of those levers. I will say I’ve got two

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Speaker 2: kids that are Gen Z and I cannot believe the

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Speaker 2: retail love that they show to Target. My son was

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Speaker 2: home from college this weekend. He’s like, can I take

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Speaker 2: the car?

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Speaker 4: I’m like, where are you going? Figuring he’s like going

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Speaker 4: on a date. Go on a Target.

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Speaker 1: A date can be had at Target. Lots of people

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Speaker 1: have had dates at Target, myself included.

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Speaker 4: We will get back to that.

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Speaker 2: So my son and his girlfriend, one of their Hanukkah

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Speaker 2: gifts they gave to each other was they both went

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Speaker 2: to Target together. They split up for an hour and

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Speaker 2: they had a hundred bucks to spend to get gifts

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Speaker 2: for each other. And then they put them in bags

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Speaker 2: and they brought them home to my house and they

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Speaker 2: had a gift swap and explained every item that they

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Speaker 2: got for each other.

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Speaker 4: It was so freaking adorable.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what a good idea. Did they run

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Speaker 1: into each other at the store or they just stayed

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Speaker 1: on opposite sides of the store?

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Speaker 2: They did bump into each other, but they were very

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Speaker 2: clandestine about it.

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Speaker 1: Boy, about it.

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Speaker 5: Got it.

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Speaker 1: That’s so fun.

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Speaker 2: I had a different question for you, but can we

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Speaker 2: just pivot for a second and talk about your day

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Speaker 2: to Target?

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Speaker 1: Well, particularly during the pandemic, that’s where we would go, right?

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Speaker 1: We would spend a lot of time wandering the aisles

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Speaker 1: of Target and My daughters, I actually remember during that time,

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Speaker 1: my husband would go in the early days and he

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Speaker 1: would bring his phone and like show us the merchandise

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Speaker 1: from his phone. And my daughters would pick out what

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Speaker 1: they want. I mean, we have moments like that. My

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Speaker 1: husband and I will still go there for an hour

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Speaker 1: or two and just kind of wander around. So it’s

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Speaker 1: a very special place.

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Speaker 2: I befriended the woman who would load up my trunk

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Speaker 2: during pandemic.

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Speaker 4: One time I only ordered two Squishmallows. Anyway, back to

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Speaker 4: the show.

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Speaker 1: Oh my God.

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Speaker 2: My only question to you, more specifically tying to the

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Speaker 2: Google-Roundel connection, is the time that you joined Google and

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Speaker 2: saw the evolution, it’s almost like there’s three waves. There’s

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Speaker 2: the search wave. There’s that social wave, which came with

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Speaker 2: the combination of buying YouTube. and then there’s this commerce wave.

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Speaker 2: Was that a consideration as you started looking into something

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Speaker 2: new and revolutionary?

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Speaker 1: The truth is that there was a world where I

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Speaker 1: stayed at Google forever. I loved being there. I felt

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Speaker 1: fulfilled by the work. I felt challenged every day. I

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Speaker 1: loved the people that I was around. I am somebody

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Speaker 1: that loves to operate in change and to operate in

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Speaker 1: that environment. So while it wasn’t a conscious, like, I

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Speaker 1: must go down the commerce media route, the fact that

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Speaker 1: it is an aspect of our industry that is growing

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Speaker 1: so quickly and is so early in its development was

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Speaker 1: certainly attractive. But it wasn’t the first thing that pointed

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Speaker 1: me in that direction. But it has been a wild,

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Speaker 1: incredible ride over the past couple of years helping to

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Speaker 1: shape the industry. Because in a lot of ways, we

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Speaker 1: talk about we’re shaping Roundel’s business and Target’s position in

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Speaker 1: retail media. But all of us, everybody that is in

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Speaker 1: my position at a different retailer or is leading for

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Speaker 1: a technology company, we’re building this thing. And that is

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I think has brought me

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Speaker 1: the most energy and joy is working with people in

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Speaker 1: the community to bring a whole aspect of the industry

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Speaker 1: to life. Talking about that.

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Speaker 3: For a second, the community around retail media, commerce media,

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Speaker 3: in the industry trades and the closed doors, but in

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Speaker 3: the IAB or the ANA, there has been a lot

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Speaker 3: of discourse over the last two years of sort of

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Speaker 3: the lack of standardization.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 3: In retail media. And the desire from advertisers, actually, for

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Speaker 3: the retailers to come together and figure out how to

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Speaker 3: collaborate in some way so the whole industry can scale

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Speaker 3: together in terms of the way you buy, the way

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Speaker 3: you measure. And curious, what’s your perspective at Roundel in

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Speaker 3: terms of the collaboration across the industry, knowing at the

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Speaker 3: end of the day that your frenemies?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it’s a great question. I’m glad you’re

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Speaker 1: asking it because it’s one of the most important topics

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Speaker 1: that we’re covering as an industry overall. When you hear

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Speaker 1: the word standardization, I think today we default to measurement

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Speaker 1: standardization when we hear that term. And I mean, it’s

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Speaker 1: absolutely the top challenge that brands are facing. And We

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Speaker 1: are definitely leaning in to solve that with our industry peers.

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Speaker 1: And IAB has been a big support in helping us

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Speaker 1: bring all of the right parties together, other retailers, brands,

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Speaker 1: tech companies. And we are leaning in to help solve

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Speaker 1: that challenge along with things like privacy, transparency. You know,

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Speaker 1: if I take a step back and I think about

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Speaker 1: the couple of decades now almost that I’ve been in

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Speaker 1: the industry, when you go back to when digital media

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Speaker 1: started to grow in popularity in There were organic ways

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Speaker 1: and formal ways that we reached better standardization on formats, metrics, channels.

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Speaker 1: And I think the same is happening in retail media.

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Speaker 1: It’s a natural evolution for us to be taking. And

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Speaker 1: we really do need to move to a place where

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Speaker 1: there’s a common set of standards within this industry as

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Speaker 1: the business matures. There’s no question about that. The one

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Speaker 1: little spin I’d put on it is that the standardization

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Speaker 1: is critical. We need to mature as a business. I

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Speaker 1: also think it’s important that we allow for flexibility to

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Speaker 1: allow retailers to be able to bring their unique offering

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Speaker 1: to life. The core of retail is a people-based business.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this, the special place where Target sits

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Speaker 1: in people’s hearts. And so we can’t lose the sight

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Speaker 1: of the fact that there needs to be some flexibility

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Speaker 1: layered on top of that standardization to let each retailer

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Speaker 1: kind of bring their own magic to life. So standardization

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Speaker 1: needs to be there without a doubt, but we don’t

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Speaker 1: want to move to a place where retail media is

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Speaker 1: at a sea of sameness or the entire offering is commoditized.

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Speaker 1: And so what we’re thinking about is making sure that

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Speaker 1: we’re leaning in to really set the right standardization, but

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Speaker 1: also think about what that unique offering is that we

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Speaker 1: can bring to the market for our brand partners.

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Speaker 3: The differentiator, right, at the end of the day is

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Speaker 3: the target omni-channel shopping experience, the target loyalty. That obviously

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Speaker 3: is something that another retailer doesn’t have. Curious, given like

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Speaker 3: your several years of experience in the industry going well

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Speaker 3: beyond retail media and your experience at Google, so much

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Speaker 3: of the future of retail media, it seems also involves offsite,

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Speaker 3: the offsite partners. and where you feel that’s heading in

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Speaker 3: terms of collaboration.

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Speaker 1: We have always been a retailer that leads with a

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Speaker 1: holistic off-channel, on-channel approach to the way that we think

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Speaker 1: about retail media. So if you look at Roundel’s offering,

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Speaker 1: and even going back three, four years ago, we have

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Speaker 1: built a product portfolio that allows us to reach a

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Speaker 1: guest wherever they are in their journey. So we, from

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Speaker 1: a social offering perspective, deep partnerships, We have a strong

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Speaker 1: programmatic offering with our programmatic by Roundel product, which is

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Speaker 1: an offering that is a curated approach to programmatic. So

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Speaker 1: we’ll continue to, and I think the industry, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the industry started very much on property. We’ve got

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Speaker 1: to get the ad infrastructure in place on our website

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Speaker 1: and app, and now we’re moving up funnel. Roundel’s in

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Speaker 1: a great place in that we’ve always thought about it

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Speaker 1: that way. I think when we think about where it

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Speaker 1: goes from here, I almost think about, you asked specifically

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Speaker 1: about off-channel, I think about what are those other big

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Speaker 1: growing channels where retail media can have a big impact.

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Speaker 1: CTV is absolutely one that comes to mind from a

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Speaker 1: digital perspective off property. The other thing that we’re thinking

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Speaker 1: a lot about is is how you move downstream and

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Speaker 1: into stores, right? And the experience that that looks like

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Speaker 1: for guests, the opportunity to reach guests when they’re in

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Speaker 1: that moment of purchase or discovery as they’re roaming the

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Speaker 1: aisles within the target environment. When I’m thinking about expansion

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Speaker 1: beyond the obvious pieces of retail media, those are the

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Speaker 1: two places that we’re spending a lot of time thinking about.

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Speaker 4: Totally makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 2: So pivoting to recognizing a bit of the non-existent elephant

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Speaker 2: in the room, but you’re passionate about Elevating women in technology,

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Speaker 2: I say it’s an elephant, is just because there are

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Speaker 2: three people on this podcast and we all happen to

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Speaker 2: be female. Do you think this is a big deal

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Speaker 2: anymore in retail media? I mean, both Rachel and I

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Speaker 2: come from the advertising, the core advertising kind of world,

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Speaker 2: and we saw massive change over the course of our

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Speaker 2: careers in terms of advancements in equity and quality and

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Speaker 2: diversity of all shapes and sizes. Rachel and I will

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Speaker 2: tell you, when we first got into the commerce space

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Speaker 2: a few years ago, it was like a whole new world.

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Speaker 2: But a lot has changed over the past few years.

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Speaker 2: And I’m curious, now that you’ve been here for a

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Speaker 2: couple of years, are you seeing more diversity in roles?

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Speaker 4: Not just gender.

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Speaker 2: I’m just picking on gender because we just all happen

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Speaker 2: to be female. But what do you think needs to

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Speaker 2: change in the industry, if anything at all?

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned that we’ve made progress, and I agree

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Speaker 1: that we’ve made progress, but the fact that we’ve made

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Speaker 1: progress is no reason to stop moving forward. You talk

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Speaker 1: about women as being a critical element of diversity. For

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Speaker 1: a minute, I’ll take that up one more level and

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Speaker 1: then speak specifically about how I think about women in leadership.

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Speaker 2: Wait, are you going to go to just women named

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Speaker 2: Sarah because there are just not enough of us?

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Speaker 1: Well, I probably could. There are a lot of us.

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Speaker 1: And then we can just go just Sarahs with Hs.

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Speaker 1: We’ll be the next level down. We all know that

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Speaker 1: having diverse voices at the table is how you deliver

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Speaker 1: the best business results for a business. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that brings me the most joy as a

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Speaker 1: leader is seeing what happens when you do that. The

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Speaker 1: most obvious places that you would look is to make

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Speaker 1: sure that you’ve got racial diversity, that you’ve got gender

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Speaker 1: diversity on that team. But I think work styles, life experiences…

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Speaker 1: bringing people together from diverse backgrounds. It’s how you make

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Speaker 1: business run and deliver results. And it’s also how you

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Speaker 1: bring happiness and joy into the workplace. So it’s such

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Speaker 1: a critical element of any leadership role. I think when

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Speaker 1: it comes to women in leadership roles, I can’t speak

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Speaker 1: for the industry overall. I can speak for Target and

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Speaker 1: I can speak to my own experience. Target is an

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Speaker 1: organization that I didn’t even realize when I came in,

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Speaker 1: how committed Target is to having female representation and leadership.

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Speaker 1: Over half of our managers are female, 47% of our

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Speaker 1: officer community. So that’s our most senior leaders, VP plus

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Speaker 1: are women. And for the first time ever, actually, if

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Speaker 1: you can believe it, I am working for a female leader.

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Speaker 1: When I moved to Target was the first time ever

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Speaker 1: that I’ve worked for a female leader. You don’t even

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Speaker 1: realize I’m pretty far in my career. And until that happened,

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Speaker 1: I didn’t realize how much it mattered to work for

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Speaker 1: and be around somebody that looks like me. And my

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Speaker 1: guard immediately went down. I feel like I bring more

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Speaker 1: of my whole self to work. So that made a

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Speaker 1: meaningful difference in how I lead and I think about

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Speaker 1: my role. And I think about when you’re looking to

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Speaker 1: drive change, we talk a lot about the formal stuff

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Speaker 1: that you need to put in place. And I think

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Speaker 1: any business leader who’s doing this right knows that you

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Speaker 1: need to manage the your efforts around diversity, equity, and inclusion,

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Speaker 1: like you manage any business strategy, right? You need to

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Speaker 1: set goals. You need to build a strategy. You need

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Speaker 1: to hold yourself and your team accountable. You got to

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Speaker 1: have it as part of your annual plan. You need

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Speaker 1: to have the right routines and trainings in place. I

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Speaker 1: think it’s just as important to have the informal stuff

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Speaker 1: nailed for folks. And so for me, it’s about what

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Speaker 1: happens in the small moments. And particularly for women, I think,

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Speaker 1: especially for women that are entering that next phase of life,

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Speaker 1: they’re entering motherhood, you need to hold hands with them

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Speaker 1: to help them recognize what that next phase will look like.

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Speaker 1: When I reflect on my own experience, I had a

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Speaker 1: couple of women say the right things to me in

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Speaker 1: the right moments that made all the difference in my

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Speaker 1: ability to be where I am. Maybe just two quick examples.

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Speaker 1: The first was from very early in my career at Google.

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Speaker 1: I have two daughters, they’re 10 and 13. And so

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Speaker 1: I was pregnant with my first daughter. And Claire Hughes Johnson,

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Speaker 1: who was a leader at Google at the time, would

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Speaker 1: call women into her office and have a quick session

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Speaker 1: before they went on their first maternity leave. And I

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Speaker 1: remember she said to me, Sarah, balance doesn’t happen in

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00:20:04,540 –> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 1: a day or in a week. There are going to

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00:20:06,540 –> 00:20:08,730
Speaker 1: be days you give more to your family. There are

413
00:20:08,750 –> 00:20:10,750
Speaker 1: going to be days that you give more to your job.

414
00:20:11,150 –> 00:20:14,070
Speaker 1: Balance happens over time. And you got to release the

415
00:20:14,090 –> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 1: guilt and know that balance happens over time. And that

416
00:20:16,880 –> 00:20:18,619
Speaker 1: honestly has been in the back of my head my

417
00:20:18,660 –> 00:20:21,619
Speaker 1: whole career. And then I had one other moment. And

418
00:20:21,640 –> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: this was when I was just starting to move into

419
00:20:24,300 –> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 1: or consider moving into a more senior leadership role. I

420
00:20:26,680 –> 00:20:29,859
Speaker 1: had two daughters at the time. And I had an

421
00:20:29,940 –> 00:20:33,070
Speaker 1: executive coach who I was working with at Google. And

422
00:20:33,090 –> 00:20:35,250
Speaker 1: there was a big job that opened up. And I

423
00:20:35,290 –> 00:20:37,370
Speaker 1: was thinking about going for it. And I said to her,

424
00:20:37,910 –> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 1: I said, I don’t know if I can do this. Like,

425
00:20:39,359 –> 00:20:40,959
Speaker 1: I don’t know if I can take on a bigger job.

426
00:20:41,420 –> 00:20:42,979
Speaker 1: I can’t take on any more. I already have so

427
00:20:43,000 –> 00:20:45,470
Speaker 1: much going on. She said, don’t stop. Don’t do that.

428
00:20:45,710 –> 00:20:48,790
Speaker 1: Women do this. They think a bigger job means more work.

429
00:20:48,910 –> 00:20:52,270
Speaker 1: It just means different work. And that little statement that

430
00:20:52,330 –> 00:20:54,369
Speaker 1: she made to me, had she not made that, I

431
00:20:54,410 –> 00:20:57,189
Speaker 1: wouldn’t be where I am today. And so again, it’s

432
00:20:57,250 –> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 1: important to have the formal stuff in place, but the

433
00:21:00,300 –> 00:21:04,659
Speaker 1: informal mentorship, reiterating those words of wisdom, those lessons that

434
00:21:04,680 –> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: you’ve learned throughout your career, I think are just as

435
00:21:06,820 –> 00:21:10,260
Speaker 1: important when you’re thinking about helping to elevate women in leadership.

436
00:21:10,660 –> 00:21:14,570
Speaker 3: I love those moments. So powerful. Especially, I just love

437
00:21:14,590 –> 00:21:17,230
Speaker 3: that Claire was doing that with her time for all

438
00:21:17,270 –> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 3: these women within Google. Curious how you’re going to answer

439
00:21:19,940 –> 00:21:22,990
Speaker 3: our famous last question, which is, what’s the bravest thing

440
00:21:23,010 –> 00:21:23,590
Speaker 3: you’ve ever done?

441
00:21:24,109 –> 00:21:26,890
Speaker 1: You guys could ask me any question. And the question

442
00:21:26,910 –> 00:21:29,149
Speaker 1: that will give me the most anxiety is one where

443
00:21:29,170 –> 00:21:32,550
Speaker 1: you force me to pin down one thing. Don’t ever

444
00:21:32,670 –> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 1: ask me who my hero is on stage or even

445
00:21:35,410 –> 00:21:38,660
Speaker 1: what my favorite movie is. I can’t. Something about my personality.

446
00:21:38,700 –> 00:21:40,780
Speaker 1: These questions give me a lot of anxiety. But I’m

447
00:21:40,800 –> 00:21:43,979
Speaker 1: going to answer your question. I will start by saying,

448
00:21:44,220 –> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: I think I need to tap into bravery every single

449
00:21:46,359 –> 00:21:49,290
Speaker 1: day in my job. Every single time I need to

450
00:21:49,330 –> 00:21:51,580
Speaker 1: get on stage in front of a big audience, I

451
00:21:51,840 –> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 1: need to be brave. I have conversations every week where

452
00:21:54,920 –> 00:21:56,940
Speaker 1: I need to take a risk or have a difficult

453
00:21:57,000 –> 00:21:59,780
Speaker 1: conversation with somebody. If I have to go to a

454
00:22:00,420 –> 00:22:03,980
Speaker 1: cocktail party by myself, I feel like I need to

455
00:22:04,030 –> 00:22:06,530
Speaker 1: be brave, right? And so there are all of these

456
00:22:06,590 –> 00:22:08,369
Speaker 1: moments that happen in my career where I need to

457
00:22:08,410 –> 00:22:11,610
Speaker 1: push myself out of my comfort zone. If I were

458
00:22:11,630 –> 00:22:14,890
Speaker 1: to point to, though, I think one situation and one

459
00:22:15,030 –> 00:22:18,190
Speaker 1: story that I think I showed bravery and it made

460
00:22:18,210 –> 00:22:21,899
Speaker 1: the most meaningful impact on my career, it would be

461
00:22:21,940 –> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: going back to when I was in business school. So

462
00:22:26,420 –> 00:22:29,300
Speaker 1: I was in business school at Berkeley. And obviously, in

463
00:22:29,359 –> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 1: any MBA program, you do an internship in between your

464
00:22:31,960 –> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: two years. And so during my first year, everybody, you know,

465
00:22:36,580 –> 00:22:38,420
Speaker 1: you go through the scramble, all the students are trying

466
00:22:38,440 –> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 1: to get interviews at various companies. Berkeley had a system

467
00:22:42,180 –> 00:22:44,780
Speaker 1: in place where they would give you a thousand points

468
00:22:45,540 –> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: to be able to bid on interviews. And so if

469
00:22:48,440 –> 00:22:50,719
Speaker 1: you didn’t think your merits alone were going to get

470
00:22:50,760 –> 00:22:53,090
Speaker 1: you an interview with the company, you could bid these

471
00:22:53,180 –> 00:22:56,230
Speaker 1: points to try to win an interview. Most students would

472
00:22:56,250 –> 00:22:57,870
Speaker 1: put 250 here, 250 there. I really wanted the internship

473
00:22:57,890 –> 00:23:03,550
Speaker 1: at Google. I wanted it really bad, not just because

474
00:23:03,590 –> 00:23:05,310
Speaker 1: of the company, but because the role, it was like

475
00:23:05,330 –> 00:23:07,649
Speaker 1: a general management role that I thought could be a

476
00:23:07,670 –> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: really good fit for me. And so I put all

477
00:23:10,280 –> 00:23:13,980
Speaker 1: thousand points on the interview just to, I knew it

478
00:23:14,000 –> 00:23:15,580
Speaker 1: would buy it. Like I knew if I gave all

479
00:23:15,619 –> 00:23:17,420
Speaker 1: a thousand, they would, they would have to interview me.

480
00:23:17,460 –> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: So I did all the points. I got the interview

481
00:23:20,830 –> 00:23:23,370
Speaker 1: and I did not interview well.

482
00:23:24,040 –> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 2: At all.

483
00:23:24,540 –> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: Like I walked out and you kind of, you know,

484
00:23:26,100 –> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: you kind of know that you don’t, you didn’t do

485
00:23:28,480 –> 00:23:31,980
Speaker 1: a great job. I walked out and I didn’t interview great.

486
00:23:32,060 –> 00:23:35,290
Speaker 1: A few days later, got the call, didn’t get the internship.

487
00:23:36,090 –> 00:23:39,889
Speaker 1: And so I went back, had a conversation with my

488
00:23:39,930 –> 00:23:43,129
Speaker 1: husband and thought, Hey, like, what’s it going to hurt

489
00:23:43,150 –> 00:23:46,270
Speaker 1: to be brave and bold in this moment and call

490
00:23:46,310 –> 00:23:49,650
Speaker 1: them and ask to try again. And so I called

491
00:23:49,670 –> 00:23:51,970
Speaker 1: them and I said, look, please give me another shot.

492
00:23:52,070 –> 00:23:55,070
Speaker 1: I really want this opportunity. I think I’m a great fit.

493
00:23:55,609 –> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: Can I interview again? And they gave me a whole

494
00:23:58,480 –> 00:24:01,980
Speaker 1: new slate of interviews. Fresh start, went in, took a

495
00:24:02,020 –> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: different approach, decided not to be the big, fancy schmancy

496
00:24:04,980 –> 00:24:06,659
Speaker 1: MBA student that I thought I was supposed to be.

497
00:24:06,720 –> 00:24:10,180
Speaker 1: Just went in. I was myself, interviewed differently and got

498
00:24:10,200 –> 00:24:13,650
Speaker 1: the job. And obviously, like, had I not taken that moment,

499
00:24:13,750 –> 00:24:16,430
Speaker 1: if I had not bid all thousand points on that interview,

500
00:24:16,630 –> 00:24:19,030
Speaker 1: if I had not called back, I mean, I have

501
00:24:19,170 –> 00:24:21,910
Speaker 1: absolutely no clue where I would be today. And that’s

502
00:24:21,930 –> 00:24:24,220
Speaker 1: been a lesson for me. Like speak up for yourself

503
00:24:24,540 –> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: in those moments, like know when you’re ready. And I’ve

504
00:24:27,280 –> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: had to tap into that energy a number of times

505
00:24:29,380 –> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: throughout the last several years. So I would say that

506
00:24:31,560 –> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: would be the one thing I would point to.

507
00:24:33,240 –> 00:24:37,020
Speaker 3: And persistence, right? You weren’t willing to give up. Something

508
00:24:37,080 –> 00:24:39,660
Speaker 3: tells me that even if you didn’t land that job,

509
00:24:39,700 –> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: you’d still be in the seat that you are in today.

510
00:24:41,880 –> 00:24:43,630
Speaker 3: It just would have been a different path to get there.

511
00:24:43,930 –> 00:24:44,990
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that.

512
00:24:45,270 –> 00:24:49,190
Speaker 3: Well, Sarah T, we’re so appreciative of your time. Obviously,

513
00:24:49,230 –> 00:24:52,179
Speaker 3: Roundel is one of the biggest players in the ecosystem

514
00:24:52,240 –> 00:24:55,100
Speaker 3: when it comes to retail media. Sarah and I both

515
00:24:55,160 –> 00:24:58,540
Speaker 3: are loyal Target shoppers, amongst other places, because this is

516
00:24:58,580 –> 00:25:02,050
Speaker 3: an agnostic podcast. But Target has always had a soft place.

517
00:25:01,869 –> 00:25:02,370
Speaker 1: In my heart.

518
00:25:02,410 –> 00:25:04,010
Speaker 3: In my family, we call it Target.

519
00:25:04,070 –> 00:25:05,750
Speaker 1: Yes, as you should, as you should.

520
00:25:05,990 –> 00:25:06,389
Speaker 5: I love it.

521
00:25:06,570 –> 00:25:09,930
Speaker 3: And thank you. And everyone, please follow Sarah on LinkedIn.

522
00:25:10,430 –> 00:25:12,970
Speaker 3: See what’s going on at Roundel. I’m sure you will

523
00:25:13,020 –> 00:25:15,020
Speaker 3: find her at the latest big conference.

524
00:25:15,240 –> 00:25:17,260
Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Thank you so much for the time.

525
00:25:19,000 –> 00:25:22,380
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this episode and you want to explore

526
00:25:22,400 –> 00:25:26,100
Speaker 3: other areas of retail media, You can go listen to

527
00:25:26,140 –> 00:25:29,460
Speaker 3: a recent episode where we had analyst Andrew Lipsman onto

528
00:25:29,510 –> 00:25:32,449
Speaker 3: the show who’s dedicating his career to this space at

529
00:25:32,490 –> 00:25:36,090
Speaker 3: this moment in time. You can also go check out Petco,

530
00:25:36,450 –> 00:25:38,590
Speaker 3: hear what they’re doing. You can go check out our

531
00:25:38,630 –> 00:25:42,030
Speaker 3: recent episode with Albertsons. You can go into the archives

532
00:25:42,070 –> 00:25:45,690
Speaker 3: and listen to folks from Walmart Connect, GoPuff, Best Buy,

533
00:25:45,750 –> 00:25:48,929
Speaker 3: and more. If you’re enjoying what you’re hearing, tell a friend,

534
00:25:48,990 –> 00:25:52,230
Speaker 3: write a review, share it on LinkedIn, and thanks for listening.

535
00:26:11,700 –> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 5: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

536
00:26:15,700 –> 00:26:18,470
Speaker 5: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

537
00:26:18,530 –> 00:26:21,970
Speaker 5: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

538
00:26:22,010 –> 00:26:25,689
Speaker 5: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

539
00:26:25,730 –> 00:26:28,050
Speaker 5: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

540
00:26:28,109 –> 00:26:31,210
Speaker 5: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

541
00:26:31,430 –> 00:26:34,699
Speaker 5: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

542
00:26:34,740 –> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 5: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

543
00:26:37,619 –> 00:26:40,090
Speaker 5: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

544
00:26:40,150 –> 00:26:43,669
Speaker 5: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

545
00:26:43,869 –> 00:26:45,940
Speaker 5: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.