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Speaker 1: Oh, I think it starts off with having amazing people.

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Speaker 1: You’ve got to invest in the people in your organization.

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Speaker 1: I don’t care how great you think your brands are.

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Speaker 1: Your brands are only as great as the people that

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Speaker 1: are at the control switch, making them great and keeping

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Speaker 1: them great. I speak about this often with other business

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Speaker 1: leaders and I say, I don’t think what I’m doing

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Speaker 1: is so remarkable. I don’t think there’s any company that

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Speaker 1: can’t look inside its business and do exactly the same

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Speaker 1: thing we’re doing. I think you could apply these metrics effectively.

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Speaker 1: to almost any company. I have a formula to achieve

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Speaker 1: the growth rate that we are able to generate year

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Speaker 1: on year. And it relates to five different, I call

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Speaker 1: them shuns, but it’s spelled T-I-O-N-S.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: I’m Rachel Tippegraph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstetter, president of Profitero.

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Speaker 3: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 3: in e-commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Welcome to Brave Commerce. Sarah,

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Speaker 3: how does Profiterra approach like annual strategic planning or how

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Speaker 3: do you as an executive?

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Speaker 2: I have gone from fly by the seat of my

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Speaker 2: pants to significant rigor as I’ve matured. But, you know,

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Speaker 2: you don’t want to you don’t want to lose the

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Speaker 2: forest and the tree. So I have this freedom within

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Speaker 2: a framework on how we go about planning. But I

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Speaker 2: don’t think planning is an annual exercise. I actually look

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Speaker 2: at planning as as a continuum, because if you wait

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Speaker 2: until either the beginning of the year or the end

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Speaker 2: of Q4 for Q1. A, you end up getting distracted

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Speaker 2: from hitting your Q4 goals. And B, you end up

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Speaker 2: almost like postponing the planning until a particular time. So

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Speaker 2: for me, it’s extremely iterative. There are moments in time

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Speaker 2: where you have to obviously roll out goals and quotas

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Speaker 2: and financial planning and all that other stuff. But there’s

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Speaker 2: never going to be surprises. I believe in general, as

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Speaker 2: much as possible, control the controllables to avoid surprises. That’s

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Speaker 2: just my general opinion. MO as it relates to planning

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Speaker 2: and preparation. I’m a big prepper. How about you? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: me too.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I’m a big believer in continuous planning, but

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Speaker 3: I do like the act of having dedicated time to

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Speaker 3: really step back and think strategically through a long lens.

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Speaker 3: And the way that I do it at Micmac is

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Speaker 3: we essentially start planning for the next year halfway through.

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Speaker 3: So for us right now, we’re thinking about next year,

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Speaker 3: we’re doing strategy sessions. And then essentially every month we’re

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Speaker 3: pressure testing, like, is this still accurate? What do we

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Speaker 3: have to adjust? But it’s funny, I’m always talking to

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Speaker 3: other operators looking for inspiration on how they think about strategy.

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Speaker 3: And Michael Rosenberg, who I’ve known because I grew up

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Speaker 3: with his kids for so long, when His kids shared

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Speaker 3: with me his framework for how he built the business.

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Speaker 3: I immediately wrote it down and I shared it with

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Speaker 3: my leadership team. Even though he’s in the confectionery business

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Speaker 3: and I’m in the software business, I felt this was 100% applicable.

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Speaker 2: That is fascinating. Although I think most business books, it’s

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Speaker 2: like you don’t have to be in the same space

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Speaker 2: to be able to understand growth planning. That all being said,

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Speaker 2: for me, I’m always looking for compelling events. Like what’s

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Speaker 2: that thing that makes you say, you know what, either

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Speaker 2: we have to pivot. Like what’s the hidden obvious that

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Speaker 2: makes you think about like, what do I need to

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Speaker 2: fine tune in my strategy? Whether that’s my product, my

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Speaker 2: feature set, my go to market, my staff plan, all

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Speaker 2: that other stuff that helps you get there. But then

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Speaker 2: once you get there, like you said, you need to

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Speaker 2: release that framework to get that done. So tell me

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Speaker 2: more about this strategy. idea of what you heard from

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Speaker 2: Michael Rosenberg’s kids which by the way is bananas because

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Speaker 2: if anybody asked my kids what my framework would be

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Speaker 2: for anything including like food shopping just deadpan.

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Speaker 3: Deadpan well I think we all know your framework for

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Speaker 3: food shopping it’s alcohol and candy a.

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Speaker 2: Balanced diet you know how it goes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah So you’re going to hear from Michael, but he

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Speaker 3: has been building his business for the last 45 years.

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Speaker 3: And over the last 45 years, he has consistently grown 15%

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Speaker 3: year over year, which is pretty remarkable, just the rigor,

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Speaker 3: the discipline to do that.

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Speaker 2: If you look at any other food company, at least

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Speaker 2: publicly traded, I don’t know if you’d find anything that

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Speaker 2: has that kind of return.

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Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. He’s going to take you through the framework,

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Speaker 3: but what you’re going to hear are his growth levers

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Speaker 3: around innovation, consumption, promotion, distribution, and expansion. And I really

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Speaker 3: do feel that we all could be brainstorming in our

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Speaker 3: businesses around these levers. So who better to learn from

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Speaker 3: than the great operator who we will bring on to

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Speaker 3: the show, Michael. Today, I’m personally very excited to bring

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Speaker 3: Michael Rosenberg, the founder, president and CEO of Pym Brands

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Speaker 3: onto the show. Michael and I go way back and

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Speaker 3: he has a pretty remarkable story. Hey, Michael.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, Rachel. And good morning, Sarah. And thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for inviting me to be here today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like it’s 30 years in the making.

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Speaker 3: So I’ll already spill the spoiler, but I grew up

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Speaker 3: in the same town in New Jersey where Michael raised

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Speaker 3: his family. So the Pym brands have been a part

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Speaker 3: of my life for as long as I remember. Michael,

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Speaker 3: I’m just honored to have you here.

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Speaker 1: Well, Rachel, thank you very much. And I’m not going

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Speaker 1: to pretend that I have actual recollections of this, but

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Speaker 1: we used to, it’s about half now, get about 1,000

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Speaker 1: trick-or-treaters at the front door, given what I do for

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Speaker 1: a living. And I’m sure that Rachel was in that

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Speaker 1: line many times. Gratefully, it’s down to about half of

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Speaker 1: that now. And I joke that whoever buys my house

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Speaker 1: is in really significant trouble, not knowing what is about

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Speaker 1: to hit them. But in any event, yes, we’ve known

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Speaker 1: each other for a long time, and I’ve known your

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Speaker 1: mom and dad too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, you alluded to this. You’re in the candy business.

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Speaker 3: You’re the founder and CEO within a confectionery business. And

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Speaker 3: Pim Brands, I don’t know if you still share the story,

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Speaker 3: but it was once known as Promotion in Motion. And

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Speaker 3: it feels like there’s a founder story behind this name.

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Speaker 3: So what is this name and how does it relate

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Speaker 3: to the confectionery business that you now play in?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that’s a question that’s asked often. And it actually

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Speaker 1: led to the change to PIM, which is, of course,

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Speaker 1: a shortened version of Promotion in Motion. When I started

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Speaker 1: the company, my actual original idea was, was I was

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Speaker 1: going to put billboards on the sides of tractor trailers,

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Speaker 1: hence the name Promotion in Motion. I won’t go into

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Speaker 1: a long story about how that evolved, but eventually I

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Speaker 1: ended up transitioning to another idea that I had that

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Speaker 1: related to licensed confectionery and food products. I actually started

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Speaker 1: off with a cookie product in conjunction with the movie Annie,

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Speaker 1: which had, of course, had been based on a Broadway show.

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Speaker 1: And after a successful In that area, I just stuck

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Speaker 1: to food. And then, as I said, it evolved into

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Speaker 1: confections and licensing and the business started to grow, but

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Speaker 1: I never changed the name of the company. And for

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Speaker 1: many years, people, years and years, people would say to me,

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Speaker 1: what does promotion and motion have to do with cookies

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Speaker 1: or gummy bears? And I would say, great question, nothing. Finally,

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Speaker 1: after many years, we decided to change the name of

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Speaker 1: the company. And when we did, people said, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? Everybody knows Promotion in Motion. But in any event,

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Speaker 1: we are today PIM Brands. And that’s a little bit

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Speaker 1: of the backstory. Amazing.

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Speaker 3: So what was the cookie with Annie? I don’t think

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Speaker 3: I knew that particular anecdote.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I’d actually been working for an accounting firm

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Speaker 1: down in Washington, D.C., briefly. And I was in a

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Speaker 1: Safeway supermarket, and I saw a little box of Barnum &

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Speaker 1: Bailey animal crackers, which Nabisco… actually still makes, the little

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Speaker 1: boxes with the handle. And I’d seen the Broadway show

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Speaker 1: and I’d heard the movie was going to be coming out.

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, instead of little tigers and lions

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Speaker 1: and giraffes, wouldn’t kids love to have little cookies in

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Speaker 1: the shapes of Annie and Daddy, Warbucks and Sandy? So

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Speaker 1: I approached Columbia Pictures with the idea that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make these cookies. They wanted $ 50, 000 and I didn’t

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Speaker 1: have $ 50. But I eventually convinced them to give me

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Speaker 1: the licensing rights. And then I started shopping those rights online.

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Speaker 1: to the big cookie companies. I went to Nabisco and

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Speaker 1: Keebler and Sunshine at the time were very big companies

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Speaker 1: and they all turned me down. But a company called

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Speaker 1: Interbake Foods had a brand called FFV, Famous Foods of Virginia.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to get into the branded part of the business.

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Speaker 1: I convinced them to get into a partnership and it

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Speaker 1: was very successful. The movie wasn’t so great, but we

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Speaker 1: sure sold a lot of cookies and I made some

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Speaker 1: good money. And that was a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: how we ended up getting into what ended up becoming

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Speaker 1: the Care Bear Gummy Bears, which was our first confectionery

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Speaker 1: product and launched us into the world of confections and

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Speaker 1: snacks and things of that nature.

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Speaker 2: So you were the OG of collabs is what I’m hearing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, we’re talking early 1980s here.

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Speaker 2: I remember seeing Annie in theaters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I actually never knew whether or not it was a

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Speaker 2: big box office hit. I just know that was the

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Speaker 2: first time I ever had a nightmare was after watching

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Speaker 2: the movie Annie. So the last thing I wanted was

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Speaker 2: Miss Hannigan in my house. That’s for sure.

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Speaker 3: True.

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Speaker 1: You know, the movie wasn’t so bad. It was just,

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Speaker 1: it was so overhyped by Columbia Pictures that they just

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Speaker 1: raised people’s expectations too high. And I think it didn’t

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Speaker 1: live up to all the hype, but it was an

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Speaker 1: okay movie and we sold a ton of cookies.

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Speaker 2: Well, that’s all that matters.

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Speaker 1: To me, yes.

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Speaker 2: This is a show about commerce, not movie ratings. So

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Speaker 2: we’re all good.

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Speaker 1: Totally. For sure.

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Speaker 2: So you guys have obviously evolved significantly. I think you

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Speaker 2: got more than 50 bucks in the bank account at

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Speaker 2: this point, so mazel to you. But for now, the

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Speaker 2: past 45 years, your company has essentially been able to

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Speaker 2: grow 15% year over year and has become one of

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Speaker 2: the top candy companies in North America, sitting alongside multiple

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Speaker 2: publicly traded companies. Now, in a world where founders are

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Speaker 2: reaching this billion dollar unicorn status in a matter of

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Speaker 2: five years, You’re taking a very, obviously, non-unicorn approach, but 15%

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Speaker 2: growth year over year consistently is pretty damn impressive. What

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Speaker 2: does it take to do that consistently time and time

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Speaker 2: and time again?

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 1: I’ve always told people that I’m in the get rich

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Speaker 1: slow business. I always wanted to get rich, but I’m

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Speaker 1: willing to take my time and build a solid foundation

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Speaker 1: from which something solid can be built. And I have

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Speaker 1: a formula to achieve the growth for that we are

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Speaker 1: able to generate year on year. And it relates to

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Speaker 1: five different, I call them shuns, but it’s spelled T-I-O-N-S.

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Speaker 1: And that involves innovation, consumption, distribution, promotion, and exportation. Some

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Speaker 1: years we get two or 3% growth from one area

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Speaker 1: and other years we get three and 1% growth from

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Speaker 1: another area. But at the end of the year, we

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Speaker 1: are laser focused on hitting a 15% growth target and

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Speaker 1: capturing growth and opportunity from those five different buckets. I’ll

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Speaker 1: tell you that we’re almost parking the exportation part because

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Speaker 1: it is growing for us. We’re globalizing the business right now.

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Speaker 1: And the CIO, the chief international officer of our company,

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Speaker 1: used to be the president and CEO of Nestle North

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Speaker 1: America and Global Foods and has vast experience building out

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Speaker 1: global businesses. But even the four main buckets, the promotion

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Speaker 1: and the innovation and the distribution and the promotion, we’re

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Speaker 1: very good at making sure that we are focused on

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Speaker 1: those four areas and from those four areas, we’re able

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Speaker 1: to achieve the growth. And frankly, I speak about this

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Speaker 1: often with other business leaders and I say, I don’t

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Speaker 1: think what I’m doing is so remarkable. I don’t think

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Speaker 1: there’s any company that can’t look inside its business and

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Speaker 1: do exactly the same thing we’re doing. I think you

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Speaker 1: could apply these metrics to almost any company, no matter

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Speaker 1: how old it is. We’re 45 years old and we’re

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Speaker 1: still able to generate that growth. And I think that

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Speaker 1: most companies, if they looked inward and started thinking about

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Speaker 1: their business a little different, they could absolutely achieved the

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Speaker 1: same thing.

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Speaker 2: Can I just double click on that? One of the

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Speaker 2: things in my question I referenced relative to public companies,

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Speaker 2: there’s a benefit. I mean, there are lots of benefits

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Speaker 2: of being a private company, one of which is you

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Speaker 2: get to play the long game and that allows you

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Speaker 2: to get rich slow. So what flexibility do you believe

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Speaker 2: you have by being private that allows you to be

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Speaker 2: able to do that other than the more obvious of

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Speaker 2: nobody screaming down your neck, except maybe, you know, yourself?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. So you’re right. Not having to worry

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Speaker 1: about what we’re going to do at the end of

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Speaker 1: the quarter or the end of the half or the

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Speaker 1: end of the year is a great benefit. But I

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Speaker 1: don’t think there are many public companies that are growing

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Speaker 1: at the rate that we are still after all this time.

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Speaker 1: And I don’t think there is a shareholder out there

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Speaker 1: that wouldn’t at the end of the year be exceptionally

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Speaker 1: delighted to be a shareholder in a company that’s generating

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Speaker 1: a 15% year over year growth. And we do it profitably.

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Speaker 1: We definitely play the long game. I’m not interested in

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Speaker 1: fast results. I’m interested in solid results. It lets us

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Speaker 1: make decisions perhaps that a public company might be challenged

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Speaker 1: to make because they might have shareholders that don’t like

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Speaker 1: what they’re seeing. They’re looking for instantaneous return. But then

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Speaker 1: if you look at the bigger picture and just sort

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Speaker 1: of pull the camera back a little bit, that 15%,

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Speaker 1: that’s sexy. And that’s going to appeal to almost any investor.

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Speaker 1: I don’t care who it is.

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Speaker 3: I love the framework.

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Speaker 1: It’s funny.

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Speaker 3: The first time I heard of it, I actually shared

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Speaker 3: it with my executive leadership team. And I said, we

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Speaker 3: should do a brainstorm. using this framework because I agree

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Speaker 3: it can apply to any business. My question to you

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Speaker 3: is over 45 years, there’s been an enormous amount of

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Speaker 3: changes in the ecosystem. So the face of America has changed.

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Speaker 3: Obviously the advancement of e-commerce, last mile delivery players, taste preferences,

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Speaker 3: the pandemic. As all of these sort of trends, moments,

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Speaker 3: macro factors come into play, How do you determine which

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Speaker 3: of the five levers you need to focus on each year?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it starts off with having amazing people.

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Speaker 1: You’ve got to invest in the people in your organization.

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Speaker 1: I don’t care how great you think your brands are.

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Speaker 1: Your brands are only as great as the people that

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Speaker 1: are at the control switch, making them great and keeping

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Speaker 1: them great. And I think that you do have to

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Speaker 1: have a pulse on the market. I think you need

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Speaker 1: to be forward thinking. I read a lot. Every morning

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Speaker 1: I read, and at night, trying to take deep dives

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Speaker 1: into trends that I see happening. I have the good

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Speaker 1: fortune of traveling globally a lot, and I’m always looking

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Speaker 1: at what’s going on in foreign markets. Sometimes those trends will,

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Speaker 1: in just short order, hit our shores and become relevant.

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Speaker 1: Of course, now that we’re becoming global, we’ve got to

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Speaker 1: be thinking a little bit differently. But being sure that

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Speaker 1: you’re keeping up with technology and being sure that you’re

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Speaker 1: investing in people that are looking at all these different

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Speaker 1: facets of the business to make sure that you stay

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Speaker 1: relevant and you do pivot in terms of taste preferences

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Speaker 1: and health preferences and go-to-market strategies and meeting consumers where

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Speaker 1: they’re shopping. And all the things that you just talked

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Speaker 1: about are so critical to keeping a company vibrant. And

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Speaker 1: you can’t take your eye off all those balls. It’s

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Speaker 1: hard for one person to do it. So you better

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Speaker 1: have a great stable of people that are working in

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Speaker 1: unison to achieve those goals.

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Speaker 2: I’m so curious. What are you reading? You say you

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Speaker 2: read a lot. Give us some tips. What have you

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Speaker 2: read lately that you’re really digging and why?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, it’s not that, for instance, I’m reading as many

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Speaker 1: books as one might think. Someone just handed me a

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Speaker 1: copy actually this week of a book called Brave New World,

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Speaker 1: which relates to AI. I haven’t read it yet, but

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Speaker 1: I’m going to. I’m going on vacation actually next week

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Speaker 1: and I’m going to take it along with me. But

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Speaker 1: I read the news and I’m a chronic dyed in

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Speaker 1: the wool internet surfer. And I get into one thing

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Speaker 1: and it leads to another thing. But I think if

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Speaker 1: you deep dive into what intelligent people are saying about

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Speaker 1: trends that are happening in the marketplace and then do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of research around it, I think you

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Speaker 1: can get pretty close into what you need to be

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Speaker 1: thinking about and what’s at the top and what are

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Speaker 1: things that are nice to have or nice to know

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Speaker 1: versus you have to know.

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Speaker 2: I love that you said Brave New World. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that’s a book from the 30s and it’s about AI.

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Speaker 2: So it’s a 90-year-old book and it literally is about

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Speaker 2: the futuristic components to it.

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Speaker 1: So Salman Khan, yeah.

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Speaker 2: The reason I kept, well, nobody else here knows this.

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Speaker 2: I’m turning around looking for my copy of Brave New

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Speaker 2: World on the bookshelf, but I don’t know where the

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Speaker 2: hell it is because I’m not as organized as I

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Speaker 2: should be. Anyway, you’re looking at futuristic trends that you

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Speaker 2: might see from foreign markets, but you’re also looking at

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Speaker 2: the history that can repeat itself, if you will, as well.

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Speaker 2: As you’ve been in some of these through your world travels,

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Speaker 2: are there any examples you can pull up from things

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Speaker 2: that you’ve seen in other markets that you’ve then been

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Speaker 2: able to adapt and bring to Pembrandt’s?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it starts off with technology. We have manufacturing

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Speaker 1: facilities in Spain, and I find that in Europe, oftentimes

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Speaker 1: they’re ahead of us here in North America in terms

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Speaker 1: of adopting and implementing technology that is very beneficial in

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Speaker 1: terms of purging costs out of the system, in terms

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Speaker 1: of driving a quality into the product by removing variability

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Speaker 1: in production processes and all those types of things, even sustainability.

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Speaker 1: It’s all kind of built around one big ecosystem. So

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Speaker 1: the benefit of having manufacturing facilities there, we have a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are looking at these types of

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Speaker 1: things and putting them to work. And then we bring

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Speaker 1: them to the US, to our North American facilities. And

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Speaker 1: then similarly, we’re in India now also. So we have

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Speaker 1: that great benefit Do not underestimate India. India is an

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Speaker 1: exploding market, not just for consumer products and for economic opportunity,

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Speaker 1: but you’ve got brilliant people. You’ve got incredible engineers and

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Speaker 1: incredible intelligent education institutions that are putting out tremendously competent people.

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Speaker 1: We try to put them to work at our company

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Speaker 1: because they work hard and they’re really smart and do

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Speaker 1: really innovative, great things. I’ll just give you a specific.

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Speaker 1: When we’re traveling and we’re meeting with different potential business

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Speaker 1: partners or looking at opportunities. What we try to do

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Speaker 1: as a company is I look at whatever I’m looking

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Speaker 1: at as a thought starter. I look at something and

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Speaker 1: I say, huh, what can come out of that that

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Speaker 1: could be unique and interesting? Because we don’t want to

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Speaker 1: be replicators of anything. There’s really no value in that.

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Speaker 1: You’ve got to innovate and you’ve got to be unique

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Speaker 1: if you want to control and you want to really

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Speaker 1: drive margin and profitability and opportunity. So You know, when

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Speaker 1: I’m traveling, for instance, in India, we’ve developed recently a

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Speaker 1: brand new fruit strip. It’s got more than 70% fruit content.

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Speaker 1: It is absolutely just beyond delicious. We’re absolutely so swamped

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Speaker 1: with business that we pulled the gas pedal off of

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Speaker 1: it because our sales team was able to achieve in

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Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks, 90%. the account distribution with

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Speaker 1: the nation’s grocery chains. Literally everybody wanted it and they

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Speaker 1: wanted it yesterday. So it’s starting to hit stores now,

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Speaker 1: but we can’t keep up with what we have already.

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Speaker 1: So when you find things that are unique, when you’re

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Speaker 1: innovative and you come up with something that is different

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Speaker 1: than what everybody else has, there’s no end to the opportunities.

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Speaker 1: And that’s in technology, it’s in consumables, it’s in services.

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Speaker 1: I think it applies to every industry.

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Speaker 3: So it sounds like over the next five years, one

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Speaker 3: of your big bets is India in terms of innovation,

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Speaker 3: taste preferences, consumption, anything else over the next five years

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Speaker 3: that you think is going to greatly impact the confectionery industry?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think that the European landscape is changing.

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Speaker 1: I think that the ethnic makeup of the European community

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Speaker 1: is definitely evolving. And I think that’s going to have

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Speaker 1: an impact in the future in terms of what Europe

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Speaker 1: is like and what’s coming out of Europe and what’s

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Speaker 1: going to Europe. Of course, there’s a big transition here

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Speaker 1: in the United States with the influx of Hispanics coming

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Speaker 1: into the market. If you want to get very granular,

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Speaker 1: things like for our company, confections that have a spicy

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Speaker 1: coating on it, something that 10 years ago you would

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Speaker 1: have been laughing at, are really relevant. So you need

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Speaker 1: to be looking at the globe and thinking, it’s almost

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Speaker 1: like an amusement park. What’s the next great ride in

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Speaker 1: the park? So I think that just looking globally, we

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Speaker 1: see a lot of opportunities in emerging markets, maybe not

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Speaker 1: so many opportunities in some of the more traditional markets,

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Speaker 1: but they’re very important to us also. Wherever there are people,

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Speaker 1: there are people that are eating, and wherever there’s people eating,

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Speaker 1: there’s a penchant for sweet and delicious and better for

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Speaker 1: you is, I think, global now, and we’re trying to

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Speaker 1: tap into all of those opportunities.

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Speaker 2: I have a personal question. It wasn’t on the script,

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Speaker 2: but I hope you don’t mind me going off. You’re

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Speaker 2: the founder, the CEO, the president. You’ve been doing this

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Speaker 2: a long time. You have a tremendous amount of energy.

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Speaker 2: How do you keep this energy going and your desire

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Speaker 2: to continue to just kick ass?

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Speaker 1: I don’t know that I invented this, but Monday morning

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Speaker 1: is still my favorite day of the week. I get

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Speaker 1: up on Monday morning and I cannot wait to get

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00:20:28,910 –> 00:20:31,050
Speaker 1: to work. I love what I do. I love the

419
00:20:31,090 –> 00:20:34,629
Speaker 1: success and what our company represents. I am immensely proud

420
00:20:34,650 –> 00:20:37,070
Speaker 1: of what we’ve accomplished. I feel like I’ve got more

421
00:20:37,150 –> 00:20:39,250
Speaker 1: energy now than maybe I ever had in my lifetime.

422
00:20:39,330 –> 00:20:42,590
Speaker 1: And when I’m at work, it’s genuine and there’s passion

423
00:20:42,670 –> 00:20:45,429
Speaker 1: behind everything I do. And not only do I want

424
00:20:45,450 –> 00:20:48,169
Speaker 1: to do well and continue to enjoy the success that

425
00:20:48,210 –> 00:20:50,780
Speaker 1: I’ve built, but it gives me incredible pleasure to see

426
00:20:51,100 –> 00:20:54,139
Speaker 1: other people enjoying that success. It’s been built on the

427
00:20:54,200 –> 00:20:55,659
Speaker 1: shoulders of a lot of people that have done a

428
00:20:55,700 –> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 1: lot of great work and there’s still more to do.

429
00:20:57,760 –> 00:21:00,899
Speaker 1: And we still have just endless runway. And three of

430
00:21:01,000 –> 00:21:05,109
Speaker 1: the kids that Rachel mentioned before who grew up in

431
00:21:05,150 –> 00:21:08,950
Speaker 1: the same town as Rachel, where we lived. One’s just

432
00:21:08,970 –> 00:21:11,620
Speaker 1: finished the last year of his MBA at Columbia. Two

433
00:21:11,660 –> 00:21:14,460
Speaker 1: of them have their MBAs also from Columbia. There’s no

434
00:21:14,500 –> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: picture of a connection to Columbia, but it’s a good

435
00:21:16,440 –> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: school and they got great educations there. And two have

436
00:21:20,020 –> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: joined the business, so the last one’s coming in. And

437
00:21:22,380 –> 00:21:26,179
Speaker 1: I see a great future for our company. I think

438
00:21:26,200 –> 00:21:30,380
Speaker 1: they’re going to bring fantastic talent, leadership, vision, which they’re

439
00:21:30,520 –> 00:21:33,180
Speaker 1: doing already. And so it just energizes me even more.

440
00:21:33,460 –> 00:21:35,580
Speaker 3: So let’s talk about that for a moment. You and

441
00:21:35,619 –> 00:21:37,060
Speaker 3: I ran into each other about a year and a

442
00:21:37,100 –> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 3: half ago at the National Confectionery Association Conference in Florida.

443
00:21:41,880 –> 00:21:45,820
Speaker 3: And I was amazed by how many family businesses there

444
00:21:45,980 –> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 3: are in the space. Now your kids are part.

445
00:21:48,740 –> 00:21:49,380
Speaker 1: Of the business.

446
00:21:50,160 –> 00:21:52,330
Speaker 3: One, what is that like? And two, what do you

447
00:21:52,390 –> 00:21:55,230
Speaker 3: think it is about the confectionery industry that breeds all

448
00:21:55,250 –> 00:21:57,470
Speaker 3: of these huge family businesses?

449
00:21:57,850 –> 00:22:01,629
Speaker 1: Yeah. So there aren’t Many family businesses, unfortunately, it is

450
00:22:01,750 –> 00:22:04,290
Speaker 1: shrinking just a little bit compared to what it was

451
00:22:04,369 –> 00:22:08,430
Speaker 1: because just like every industry, there’s been consolidation. Some people

452
00:22:08,470 –> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: didn’t have a transition plan or family to come in,

453
00:22:11,890 –> 00:22:15,109
Speaker 1: but it’s a business that people are passionate about. Who

454
00:22:15,130 –> 00:22:17,300
Speaker 1: doesn’t want to be a candy man or a candy lady?

455
00:22:17,640 –> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: I’ll tell you what, when I would go to bring

456
00:22:19,540 –> 00:22:21,300
Speaker 1: your dad to work or bring your parent to work

457
00:22:21,340 –> 00:22:23,620
Speaker 1: day at school, I had it all over the guys

458
00:22:23,640 –> 00:22:27,899
Speaker 1: that were actuaries and financial planners. Everybody wanted to hear

459
00:22:27,920 –> 00:22:29,609
Speaker 1: what I had to say. and wanted to be in

460
00:22:29,630 –> 00:22:31,189
Speaker 1: the classroom. And of course, they knew they were going

461
00:22:31,210 –> 00:22:32,899
Speaker 1: to get some samples on the way out the door,

462
00:22:32,920 –> 00:22:35,420
Speaker 1: more than just samples. But in any event, it’s a

463
00:22:35,460 –> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: robust business. Like maybe some other industries, like alcohol, perhaps,

464
00:22:40,460 –> 00:22:43,940
Speaker 1: there’s just an endless market. I have jokingly, but even

465
00:22:44,030 –> 00:22:47,250
Speaker 1: more seriously say to people, people say to me, so Michael,

466
00:22:47,270 –> 00:22:49,310
Speaker 1: how’s your business? And I say, business is great. When

467
00:22:49,350 –> 00:22:51,450
Speaker 1: people stop buying our product, the world is really in trouble.

468
00:22:51,730 –> 00:22:53,510
Speaker 1: The last place you’re going to cut back on is

469
00:22:53,830 –> 00:22:58,510
Speaker 1: a snack or confections or something delicious in the afternoon

470
00:22:58,530 –> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: or for your kids or what have you. So we’re

471
00:23:00,420 –> 00:23:02,550
Speaker 1: in a great industry. We’re very proud of, we make

472
00:23:02,590 –> 00:23:05,970
Speaker 1: terrific products. We bring moments of pleasure to people. We

473
00:23:06,050 –> 00:23:08,670
Speaker 1: remind people all the time that we’re part of a

474
00:23:08,710 –> 00:23:11,530
Speaker 1: healthy diet. We’re not the main plate. We’re just a

475
00:23:11,550 –> 00:23:13,510
Speaker 1: little portion of your diet. We represent just a couple

476
00:23:13,530 –> 00:23:16,030
Speaker 1: of percentage points of your caloric intake, but you can

477
00:23:16,070 –> 00:23:18,450
Speaker 1: enjoy our products with a big smile. And who doesn’t

478
00:23:18,470 –> 00:23:20,209
Speaker 1: want to be part of that? I think that when

479
00:23:20,270 –> 00:23:22,149
Speaker 1: kids grow up in a household where that’s sort of

480
00:23:22,170 –> 00:23:24,850
Speaker 1: like a cultural thing, You’re very drawn to it. And

481
00:23:24,890 –> 00:23:28,850
Speaker 1: I think that it’s helped many family businesses transition from

482
00:23:28,910 –> 00:23:32,150
Speaker 1: generation to generation. Some gigantic ones. Look at Mars. It’s

483
00:23:32,170 –> 00:23:33,890
Speaker 1: a family-owned company. Yeah, it’s amazing.

484
00:23:34,780 –> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 3: Well, we have to ask you our famous last question,

485
00:23:38,000 –> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 3: which is, what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

486
00:23:40,340 –> 00:23:42,479
Speaker 1: I can give you actually two answers. So it’s going

487
00:23:42,500 –> 00:23:43,780
Speaker 1: to be brave and braver, maybe.

488
00:23:43,820 –> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 3: I don’t know.

489
00:23:44,859 –> 00:23:47,500
Speaker 1: First of all, the braver, not the bravest. I think

490
00:23:47,520 –> 00:23:50,689
Speaker 1: the braver one was to actually go into the manufacturing

491
00:23:51,490 –> 00:23:53,689
Speaker 1: part of the business first. At the time we did it,

492
00:23:53,760 –> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: we did not own a screwdriver. So to go out

493
00:23:56,660 –> 00:23:59,580
Speaker 1: and to get a building and to think you’re going

494
00:23:59,600 –> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: to go buy machines, you’re going to cut in floor drains,

495
00:24:02,540 –> 00:24:05,239
Speaker 1: and you’re going to add air handling, and you’re going

496
00:24:05,270 –> 00:24:08,850
Speaker 1: to make this massive, massive investment when you have a

497
00:24:08,890 –> 00:24:12,170
Speaker 1: business that’s very successful as a marketing company, but doesn’t

498
00:24:12,210 –> 00:24:14,750
Speaker 1: manufacture its products, which is where we were for many years.

499
00:24:15,369 –> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: It was gutsy and… Believe me, there were many sleepless nights.

500
00:24:19,100 –> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: And I tell people if I was going to die

501
00:24:21,160 –> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: at 75, I’m going to die at 70. Well, hopefully not.

502
00:24:24,240 –> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: But it probably peeled a few years off of my

503
00:24:26,720 –> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: life going through that process. So that was gutsy. But

504
00:24:29,600 –> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: I would have to say that the bravest thing I

505
00:24:32,030 –> 00:24:35,670
Speaker 1: ever did was starting the company because I took a very,

506
00:24:35,730 –> 00:24:38,450
Speaker 1: very risky path at the time, but said to myself,

507
00:24:38,510 –> 00:24:41,129
Speaker 1: if I fail, if I starve, the only person who’s

508
00:24:41,150 –> 00:24:43,790
Speaker 1: going to starve is me. And so I don’t have

509
00:24:43,810 –> 00:24:45,909
Speaker 1: to worry about anybody else. And I decided if I

510
00:24:45,950 –> 00:24:48,340
Speaker 1: wasn’t going to do it then, I might never do it.

511
00:24:48,760 –> 00:24:52,100
Speaker 1: And I would encourage anybody that’s entrepreneurial, no matter how,

512
00:24:52,560 –> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn’t say how old, I would say how young

513
00:24:55,000 –> 00:24:57,540
Speaker 1: you feel you are and there’s years ahead, do it

514
00:24:57,580 –> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: while you’re young because it becomes almost impossible as you

515
00:25:00,820 –> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: get older and you have all these other costs and

516
00:25:02,660 –> 00:25:05,859
Speaker 1: responsibilities of life. Take the plunge, give it a try.

517
00:25:05,980 –> 00:25:08,530
Speaker 1: If you fail, you pick yourself up, you dust yourself off.

518
00:25:08,830 –> 00:25:10,450
Speaker 1: But that would be the bravest thing I think I

519
00:25:10,510 –> 00:25:10,870
Speaker 1: ever did.

520
00:25:11,090 –> 00:25:13,629
Speaker 3: Well, Michael, it’s been such a pleasure to watch from

521
00:25:13,650 –> 00:25:16,030
Speaker 3: the sidelines. And I think it’s amazing that your kids

522
00:25:16,070 –> 00:25:18,870
Speaker 3: are now joining the business. You are impacting so many

523
00:25:18,910 –> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: lives and we appreciate that you’ve taken the time to

524
00:25:21,080 –> 00:25:21,660
Speaker 3: share your story.

525
00:25:21,740 –> 00:25:24,179
Speaker 1: Rachel, thank you so much for inviting me. And I

526
00:25:24,240 –> 00:25:26,940
Speaker 1: hope maybe there’s a little nugget someone can take along

527
00:25:27,359 –> 00:25:29,860
Speaker 1: and they can start something like I did and they

528
00:25:29,900 –> 00:25:32,790
Speaker 1: can help bring people opportunity like we have. And it’s

529
00:25:32,810 –> 00:25:34,230
Speaker 1: a great pleasure to be able to do and I

530
00:25:34,270 –> 00:25:35,010
Speaker 1: enjoy it every day.

531
00:25:35,410 –> 00:25:36,930
Speaker 3: We can tell. Well, thank you again.

532
00:25:37,090 –> 00:25:39,530
Speaker 1: Okay, well, thank you both. Sarah, thank you. Rachel, thank you.

533
00:25:41,720 –> 00:25:44,700
Speaker 3: Well, hopefully you’re now going to run with that framework

534
00:25:45,040 –> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 3: for Michael into your strategic planning sessions. If you loved

535
00:25:48,740 –> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: what you heard and you want to hear from another

536
00:25:52,070 –> 00:25:56,570
Speaker 3: founder building a business in the grocery industry, go listen

537
00:25:56,590 –> 00:26:00,410
Speaker 3: to a recent episode with the founder of Olipop, Ben Goodwin.

538
00:26:01,200 –> 00:26:03,300
Speaker 3: And if you want to keep diving deep into the

539
00:26:03,340 –> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 3: land of confectionery, because you know that we’re passionate about

540
00:26:06,260 –> 00:26:09,260
Speaker 3: it here, go check out the episode that we recorded

541
00:26:09,300 –> 00:26:12,659
Speaker 3: with the CMO of Mars Wrigley, Gabrielle Wesley, or the

542
00:26:12,700 –> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: head of media at Hershey’s, Vinnie Rinaldi. Please tell a friend,

543
00:26:17,020 –> 00:26:20,260
Speaker 3: write us a review, hit us up on LinkedIn. Thanks

544
00:26:20,320 –> 00:26:20,900
Speaker 3: for listening.

545
00:26:31,410 –> 00:26:32,020
Speaker 1: Thank you.

546
00:26:46,690 –> 00:26:50,660
Speaker 4: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

547
00:26:50,680 –> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 4: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

548
00:26:53,500 –> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 4: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

549
00:26:56,980 –> 00:27:00,669
Speaker 4: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

550
00:27:00,730 –> 00:27:03,030
Speaker 4: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

551
00:27:03,090 –> 00:27:06,210
Speaker 4: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

552
00:27:06,420 –> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 4: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

553
00:27:09,720 –> 00:27:12,570
Speaker 4: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

554
00:27:12,609 –> 00:27:15,070
Speaker 4: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

555
00:27:15,130 –> 00:27:18,659
Speaker 4: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

556
00:27:18,859 –> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 4: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.