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Speaker 1: The nuance within consulting, the nuance within convening, the nuance

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Speaker 1: within co-investing would be much too long for this podcast,

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Speaker 1: for this conversation. But let it suffice to say that,

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Speaker 1: as I said, 18 years ago, I had an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to peer around a corner and see the opportunity and

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Speaker 1: look at the plot of real estate at what I

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Speaker 1: characterized as the intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment, sports,

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Speaker 1: and technology. And I found a plot of real estate there,

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Speaker 1: and it was uninhabited. And that old joke we’ve all

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Speaker 1: heard in our life, look to your left, look to

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Speaker 1: your right. I did. There was nobody there. So I

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Speaker 1: took the spot.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to today’s episode of Brave Commerce.

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Speaker 3: I’m Rachel Tippegraff, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

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Speaker 2: I’m Sarah Hofstetter, president of Profitero.

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Speaker 3: And this is a show that talks about what’s relevant

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Speaker 3: in e-commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Sarah, what do

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Speaker 3: you think is the most important asset that any company has?

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Speaker 2: People, talent, no question. You got a better answer?

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Speaker 3: No, human capital.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: But what comes with that is your ability to hire correctly, train, retain.

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Speaker 3: And to be perfectly honest, I have found it to

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Speaker 3: be the hardest part of the job.

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Speaker 2: I would say as well, being able to read somebody

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Speaker 2: in a 45 minute interview process and doing that over

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Speaker 2: and over and over again and doing it with your

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Speaker 2: most junior and most senior employees. It’s just, it’s hard

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Speaker 2: to be able to find that, that je ne sais quoi,

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Speaker 2: whether that’s hiring your talent or even finding people to

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Speaker 2: work with. Think about how much you and I have

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Speaker 2: done together. It sparked from a dinner where we just clicked,

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Speaker 2: but that was many hours together and then multiple conversations

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Speaker 2: that kind of get there. You still have to figure

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Speaker 2: out what’s that spark, what’s that kernel that gets you there.

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Speaker 2: I remember the first time I met Michael Kasson.

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Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was in a conference room at 360i’ s early days.

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Speaker 2: It was with him and Wendell Millard. They had just

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Speaker 2: started MediaLink. They were looking at the right kind of

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Speaker 2: companies both to invest in as well as to bring

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Speaker 2: clients in and whatnot. And I didn’t know about his reputation.

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Speaker 2: I didn’t know the whole Michael Kasten story. I was

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Speaker 2: just relatively new to the industry. And you walk in

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Speaker 2: and you know that’s somebody with a spark. It’s not

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Speaker 2: the name dropping. It’s the understanding of when and where

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Speaker 2: and how to be at the intersection. He and Wenda

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Speaker 2: took an early stake in 360i before it was sold.

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Speaker 3: I’ve never looked into 360i’ s investors.

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Speaker 2: Well, we sold the company 14 years ago, something like that.

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Speaker 2: But this was early. This might have been like 2005

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Speaker 2: when we first met Michael and Wenda. And we can

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Speaker 2: have a whole episode on the buying and selling of 360i.

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Speaker 2: But yeah. He’s got a lot of stories. He’s got

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Speaker 2: a lot more stories, Mr. Kasson, some of which he

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Speaker 2: has shared with us today.

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Speaker 3: Well, I have an employee at Micmac who grew up

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Speaker 3: at MediaLink and he is a star employee. So I

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Speaker 3: really think that he does know how to pick talent.

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Speaker 3: Who better to hear from on how to do it

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Speaker 3: than Michael Kasson himself. So let’s bring him onto the show.

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Speaker 2: Michael Kasson, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures. We are

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Speaker 2: thrilled to have you on the podcast. Thanks so much

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Speaker 2: for joining us, Michael.

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Speaker 1: Well, Sarah and Rachel, it’s a pleasure. Two people that

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Speaker 1: I have great respect for. And if there’s anything that

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Speaker 1: I like to do, it’s talk. So this is fun

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: Actually, I think you’re a better listener than you are talker.

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Speaker 2: And you’re a pretty damn good talker. So let’s get

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Speaker 2: into it.

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Speaker 1: I’ll tell you a story. I’m funny about these old

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Speaker 1: lessons that I learned when I was young. My grandmother

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Speaker 1: taught me a few, but one that she taught me

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Speaker 1: was there’s a reason you have two ears and one mouth.

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Speaker 1: You should listen more than you talk.

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Speaker 2: So it’s clear that you’ve taken that to heart. I

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Speaker 2: think my staff that taught me that as well. I

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Speaker 2: don’t know how much I listened.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That’s another story.

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Speaker 1: My grandmother also taught me another one, which I use

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Speaker 1: a lot. And you’ve probably heard me use it over

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Speaker 1: the years, Sarah. It was don’t read people’s lips. Watch

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Speaker 1: their feet. Don’t listen to what people say. Watch what

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Speaker 1: they do.

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Speaker 2: I like that. Yeah. Let’s get into the newest information,

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Speaker 2: which is you starting 3C Ventures. So can you just

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Speaker 2: ground everybody? What is it? And the podcast is called

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Speaker 2: Brave Commerce. So if there’s a commerce angle, you get

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Speaker 2: bonus points.

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Speaker 1: Right. So as I was contemplating what’s next, a tough

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Speaker 1: decision for me to leave the company that I founded.

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Speaker 1: Those things are tough because I’m an emotional kind of guy.

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Speaker 1: And I look at from whence I came. And I

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Speaker 1: think you can’t ever forget that. As we’re approaching on

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Speaker 1: the calendar, from whence I came, what I grew up

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Speaker 1: calling Columbus Day, which is now Indigenous People Day, from

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Speaker 1: whence I came, was from Brooklyn 71 years ago when

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Speaker 1: we moved to California on what is now Indigenous People Day.

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Speaker 1: So I look at from whence I came geographically in

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Speaker 1: the one case, but what I look at it professionally,

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Speaker 1: I had the good fortune 18 years ago, roughly, to

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Speaker 1: look around the corner and come up with the idea

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Speaker 1: for my previous company. And I’m very proud of what

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Speaker 1: I was able to build and the people I was

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Speaker 1: able to attract and the kind of ripple I was

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Speaker 1: able to have in the pond. if you will, of

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Speaker 1: our industry with my previous company. So when I looked

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Speaker 1: at this opportunity, I said, what am I going to

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Speaker 1: do and what do I want to focus on? And

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Speaker 1: I was sitting with a good friend of mine named

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Speaker 1: John Miller, who many of you may know, who industry,

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Speaker 1: boldface name, having been around for a long time, back

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Speaker 1: in the day, ran AOL and then News Corp Digital

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Speaker 1: Leadership and many, many other important plays in the industry.

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Speaker 1: And we were sitting around in the spring and he said,

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Speaker 1: so Michael, what do you want to do next? What

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Speaker 1: are you going to do? And he took a piece

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Speaker 1: of paper and it was a proverbial whiteboard. We were

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Speaker 1: at a table, so it wasn’t actually a whiteboard, but

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Speaker 1: it was a table that you could write on the tablecloth.

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Speaker 1: So he said, so you’re going to consult. So he

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Speaker 1: writes the word consult. I said, yes. He said, and

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Speaker 1: you’re still going to do your events and what you’ve

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Speaker 1: done with the industry with CAN and CES and Possible

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Speaker 1: and all the different events. And he says, so you’re

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Speaker 1: going to convene. So he writes the word convene. And

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Speaker 1: he says, I presume you’re going to still through a

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Speaker 1: family office lens and invest in things? And I said, yes.

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Speaker 1: He said, so you’re going to co-invest. So here’s a

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Speaker 1: piece of paper sitting in front of me that says consult, convene,

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Speaker 1: and co-invest. And I said, so it’s the three Cs.

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Speaker 1: That’s how I got to three Cs. So it’s not

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Speaker 1: some mysterious story as to what it means. It was

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Speaker 1: descriptive in my view of what I was going to

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Speaker 1: be focusing on, consulting, convening, and co-investing. And I think

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Speaker 1: that’s a good way to describe the what And the

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Speaker 1: nuance within consulting, the nuance within convening, the nuance within

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Speaker 1: co-investing would be much too long for this podcast, for

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Speaker 1: this conversation. But let it suffice to say that, as

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Speaker 1: I said, 18 years ago, I had an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: peer around a corner and see the opportunity and look

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Speaker 1: at the plot of real estate at what I characterized

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Speaker 1: as the intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment, sports, and technology.

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Speaker 1: And I found a plot of real estate there, and

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Speaker 1: it was uninhabited. And that old joke we’ve all heard

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Speaker 1: in our life, look to your left, look to your right.

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Speaker 1: I did. There was nobody there. So I took the spot.

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Speaker 1: I have the opportunity again, Rachel and Sarah, to look

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Speaker 1: around the corner. The only difference is, even though I’ve

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Speaker 1: gotten older, my eyesight’s actually gotten better because I’ve had

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Speaker 1: the experience of the things that I did and now

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Speaker 1: don’t want to necessarily do the same or the things

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Speaker 1: that I didn’t do that I want to now add in.

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Speaker 1: So that’s the moment that I’m at right now. I

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Speaker 1: peered around the corner. That plot of real estate is

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Speaker 1: still there. There’s other people around that plot of real estate,

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Speaker 1: but I think I have a unique opportunity to capitalize

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Speaker 1: on my experience and the connectivity and the imagination that

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Speaker 1: I have around where this industry is going at this point,

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Speaker 1: number one. But I have a little more, but let

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Speaker 1: me take a breath because that was a long-winded answer.

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Speaker 3: So playing this out 10 years from now, after you’ve

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Speaker 3: accomplished the three Cs, what do you want the industry

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Speaker 3: to say about you? What’s your legacy with the three Cs?

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Speaker 1: Whoa, that’s a good question. And I’m a believer that

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Speaker 1: legacy matters. But I guess the legacy that we all

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Speaker 1: want is that the industry would look at me and

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Speaker 1: say I was a good person and that I contributed

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Speaker 1: to the industry. And I saw opportunity for the industry.

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Speaker 1: And I tried to capitalize on that for the industry,

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Speaker 1: but obviously for myself as well. Yeah, I think number one, always,

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Speaker 1: as we would say, a mensch, okay? And I’d like

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Speaker 1: that to be the legacy, obviously with the substantive underpinnings

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Speaker 1: of that. But yeah, I think I would probably be

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Speaker 1: very happy if that was the industry moniker that I

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Speaker 1: could walk away with.

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Speaker 2: So as we get a little nostalgic, I guess, are

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Speaker 2: there any like leadership decisions that you regret in hindsight?

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Speaker 2: I have no doubt you will leave a menschlich mark

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Speaker 2: you already have and will continue to do so. On

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Speaker 2: the flip of it, decisions you’ve regretted and perhaps has

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Speaker 2: it shaped the way you think about navigating?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The last transaction that I completed, which didn’t end well,

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Speaker 1: is probably the biggest regret that I have because I’ll

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Speaker 1: be honest, because I am, I never expected to carry

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Speaker 1: a different business card. I regret that transaction very, very seriously.

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Speaker 1: I made a bad judgment and it’s one that cost

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Speaker 1: me and I’m sad about that. So yeah, the promise

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Speaker 1: of that transaction on paper was real. The substance of

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Speaker 1: it wasn’t. And so, yeah, I would say that’s probably

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Speaker 1: in business one of the decisions I regret the most. However,

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Speaker 1: in the spiritual nature of our conversation, I also was

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Speaker 1: taught like you, when God closes a door, God opens

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Speaker 1: a window or the other way around. So, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: door closed unexpectedly. you know, my choice, but still unexpectedly.

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Speaker 1: But the window that’s opened is very exciting to me.

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Speaker 3: Michael, as a fellow entrepreneur who hopefully one day has

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Speaker 3: a story like yours, when you’re doing diligence on the

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Speaker 3: next stage of your company, What learnings do you have

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Speaker 3: for operators and founders as they evaluate those possibilities?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, make sure that the promise is backed up by

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Speaker 1: the people and make sure you do the proper diligence

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Speaker 1: on the people. You know, I was on the phone

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Speaker 1: with the chief marketing officer this morning asking me career advice.

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Speaker 1: And I said, this is an analogy, but it’s a

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Speaker 1: good example. I think at the Forbes CMO conference a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, Seth Matlins was interviewing me and

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Speaker 1: he said, Michael, and it was a very provocative question.

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Speaker 1: He said, Michael, what does the CEO generally not know

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Speaker 1: about the role of the CMO? And I thought that

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Speaker 1: was such a brilliant question because it brings into question

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Speaker 1: so many elements of what I think helps me answer

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Speaker 1: your question. I said, well, it’s interesting because I think

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Speaker 1: it goes back to the job description. So what I’ve

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Speaker 1: used that provocative question for is a great piece of

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Speaker 1: new business, always. You ask that question to a CEO

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Speaker 1: and you’re going to get so many answers and you’re

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Speaker 1: going to make the CEO think about it. And I’ve

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Speaker 1: done that frequently because I then say, well, look, it

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Speaker 1: goes to the job description and the title. If you

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Speaker 1: give somebody a job description of chief growth and marketing officer,

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Speaker 1: does that person have the levers that they need to

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Speaker 1: execute growth? That’s where I’m going to go with this.

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Speaker 1: So the diligence is make sure that what you write

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Speaker 1: on a piece of paper in terms of integration and

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Speaker 1: in terms of you know, systems and in terms of

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Speaker 1: all of that is backed up by the people, that

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Speaker 1: you actually have the levers. The levers would be the people.

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Speaker 2: So with that in mind, I mean, you are de

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Speaker 2: facto the most connected person in our industry. And no

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Speaker 2: matter which one of the words or alliterations you use

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Speaker 2: that would be to define our industry, you would still

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Speaker 2: be the most connected, whichever one we were looking at.

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Speaker 2: You’re connected to a lot of power. And you talk

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Speaker 2: about betting on people. What’s your filter for how you

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Speaker 2: think about, like, okay, I’m going to bet on this person.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he or she is not in the inner circle

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Speaker 2: at this point, but I see something. What is that

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Speaker 2: je ne sais quoi?

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Speaker 1: There’s always that spark, Sarah. And that’s hard to put

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Speaker 1: into words. It’s lightning in a jar. You know, I

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Speaker 1: tell the story of when I hired Grant Gitlin to

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Speaker 1: be the first chief of staff, and I made up

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Speaker 1: the title. And Grant was such a unique individual. He

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Speaker 1: was there to interview. It was early in my previous company,

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Speaker 1: and he was there for an associate job. And in

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Speaker 1: the meeting, he asked me a question. He said, Michael,

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Speaker 1: and I’m paraphrasing because he would never have asked the

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Speaker 1: question in these words, but I’m paraphrasing. He said, Michael,

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Speaker 1: would it be interesting for you to meet the young,

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Speaker 1: hip didgeridoo in New York? And again, he did not

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Speaker 1: say that. I’m paraphrasing. I said, so are you asking

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Speaker 1: me if I would want to meet Mark Zuckerberg before

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Speaker 1: he was Mark Zuckerberg? And he said, yeah. I said,

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Speaker 1: is that a blonde joke? Okay. I mean, I was

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Speaker 1: being sarcastic. I love blondes. No kidding. But I was

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Speaker 1: being sarcastic. It’s kind of like, is that an IQ test?

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course I would like to. Something about

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Speaker 1: that question sparked something in my mind. And at that moment,

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Speaker 1: I riffed on a job description of what became chief

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Speaker 1: of stuff. And I had not thought about it one

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Speaker 1: moment before that conversation. And I said to him, let

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Speaker 1: me ask you a question. Would you be interested in

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Speaker 1: this role And I literally articulated the role in a riff.

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Speaker 1: And when I finished, reminding you I asked it as

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Speaker 1: a question, he looked at me and said, is that

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Speaker 1: a blonde joke? And I said, you’re hired. Okay. There

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Speaker 1: was a spark. I saw it. How do you put

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Speaker 1: that into words? Well, I did, but it’s anecdotal. There’s

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Speaker 1: something you see. I don’t know what it is. I

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Speaker 1: don’t know how to describe it. It’s amorphous, but when

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Speaker 1: you see it, you know it.

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Speaker 3: Just real quick, we have a shared mutual. I had

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Speaker 3: coffee with Linda Boff this morning, and she brought up Grant.

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Speaker 3: So Grant, I hope your ears are ringing.

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Speaker 1: He texted me last night, and I owe him a

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Speaker 1: phone call. But I tell you this, Nellie Boff, Linda’s daughter,

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Speaker 1: was one of our mentees and interned and then worked

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Speaker 1: at MediaLink for a very long time. And I have

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Speaker 1: a big heart for Linda Boff and the entire family.

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Speaker 2: Talk about making bets. I mean, Michael, you and I

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Speaker 2: met when you took an early investment in 360i about

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Speaker 2: 20 years ago, something like that. There’s something about that

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Speaker 2: where you seem to be in the right place at

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Speaker 2: the right time, like all the freaking time. You’re saying

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Speaker 2: it’s that.

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Speaker 1: Well, but you know what, Sarah? Being in the right

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Speaker 1: place at the right time, you have to know it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There was a great degree of insecurity for me early

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Speaker 1: in this iteration of my career when at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the century, people would introduce me at events and

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Speaker 1: I’d speak and they’d go, Michael Kasson with the biggest

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Speaker 1: Rolodex in the world. And I would be pretty insecure

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Speaker 1: about that because I think, whoa, I think I’ve accomplished

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Speaker 1: a few things in my life. I went to college.

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Speaker 1: I went to law school. I went to graduate school.

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Speaker 1: I built a couple of businesses. I’ve had some good fortune.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, is that what I’ve achieved? I’ve achieved

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Speaker 1: notoriety because of a Rolodex. The insecurity went away when

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Speaker 1: I realized it’s great to have this, okay? but it’s

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Speaker 1: what you do with it and how you understand it

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Speaker 1: and how you navigate it. That was the special sauce

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Speaker 1: that I think I brought. So my insecurity went away

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Speaker 1: because I went, actually, it’s a compliment.

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Speaker 2: I certainly think it is. And especially, again, it’s how

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Speaker 2: you use it. That’s the difference between being the maven

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Speaker 2: and being the connector. And I actually think you’re both.

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Speaker 2: To be a good connector, you need to be a maven.

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Speaker 2: And to be a good maven, you need to have

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Speaker 2: the right connections.

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Speaker 1: Well, it’s worked out. Look, let me not answer a

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Speaker 1: question that hasn’t been asked, but Going back to the

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Speaker 1: words and words matter, I identified the themes that I

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Speaker 1: want to focus on in 3C and it came back

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Speaker 1: to words. About two years ago, I stumbled on something

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Speaker 1: where I was asked in the role that I somehow

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Speaker 1: have in this industry, and I’m going to hearken back

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Speaker 1: to a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode. One of my favorites

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Speaker 1: was about a dinner party and Larry David was trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out who was going to be the middle

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Speaker 1: at the dinner party. The middler. The middler. I kind

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Speaker 1: of think I somehow either self-anointed or appointed as the

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Speaker 1: middler in the industry. As such, I had to come

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Speaker 1: up with the words or phrases that I would use

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Speaker 1: to spark the conversation. Because if you’re in that role,

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Speaker 1: you got to know, what am I going to say

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Speaker 1: at that dinner party, proverbially, to start the conversation? So

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Speaker 1: I wrote down a bunch of words, and it turned

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Speaker 1: out that the words started with either the letter T

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Speaker 1: or the letter C. So I said, I’m going to

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Speaker 1: adopt these as my Ts and Cs. I don’t mean

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Speaker 1: terms and conditions. But if I have to shine a

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Speaker 1: light on the areas that I want to focus on,

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Speaker 1: I’m going to let the T’s and C’s guide me.

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Speaker 1: So here you go, the T’s. And what I mean

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Speaker 1: by this are the industry focus areas that I think

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Speaker 1: we all are dealing with. The T’s are trust, transparency, talent, technology,

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Speaker 1: and transformation. I haven’t met anybody lately that’s not in

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Speaker 1: some sort of a transformation. Trust, obvious, transparency, critical, talent,

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Speaker 1: the dearth of talent. And technology, kind of duh, obviously.

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Speaker 1: Those are the T’s. The C’s. This is a gift

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Speaker 1: to you, Sarah, in the profitero part of your life,

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Speaker 1: which is the C words. Content, commerce, culture, creativity, community, curation.

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Speaker 1: Those are the C words. And I start with content

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Speaker 1: and commerce because it’s rare lately to hear the word

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Speaker 1: commerce not being modified by the word content. In that context,

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Speaker 1: another C word, I look at it and say, if

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Speaker 1: I have to tell you where 3C is going to focus,

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Speaker 1: it’s going to focus on those words and the manifestations

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Speaker 1: of those words in practice. Trust, transparency, talent, technology, and transformation, content, commerce, culture, creativity, community,

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Speaker 1: and curation. I rest my case.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the ampersand is AI.

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Speaker 1: There you go. It’s the word, Rachel, when the interweb

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Speaker 1: was getting started and you’d be at a cocktail party

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Speaker 1: and everyone would say, hey, do you have a website? Oh,

360
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Speaker 1: do you have a, oh, we need a website. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I’m going back a long time. Today it’s, you know,

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Speaker 1: the drinking game in our world is AI. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I told this story publicly a while ago and it’s

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Speaker 1: exactly a year ago. Lynn Lewis, somebody I’m sure we

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Speaker 1: all know in the industry, we had kitted around in

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Speaker 1: the summer of 23 that AI was the drinking game

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Speaker 1: because every conversation you had, AI came up. We’re sitting

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Speaker 1: in temple last year, now literally a year ago in

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Speaker 1: Rosh Hashanah, and I get a text from Lynn Lewis,

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Speaker 1: obviously a Reformed templeer. She wouldn’t be texting during temple,

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Speaker 1: but kidding. But I get a text and it says, well,

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Speaker 1: the drinking game has continued. My rabbi just mentioned AI

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Speaker 1: in his sermon. Not two hours later, because of time

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Speaker 1: zones in my temple, my rabbi mentions AI in his sermon.

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Speaker 1: I sent Lynn Lewis back a note. I said, the

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Speaker 1: drinking game is on. It’s continuing. In the rabbinic universe.

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Speaker 3: Well, Michael, we could literally pick your brain for decades,

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Speaker 3: but we got to ask you our famous last question,

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Speaker 3: which is, what’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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Speaker 1: Well, I’m going to change it to say the smartest

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Speaker 1: thing I ever did, because it’s the same. 50 years ago, Ronnie.

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Speaker 4: Ronnie?

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Mazel tov. It all comes back to Ronnie. Nothing happens

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Speaker 2: in a conversation without Ronnie.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: That’s amazing.

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Speaker 1: And this December is 50 years. Well, that’s it. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, that was the bravest and smartest thing

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Speaker 1: I did. but the luckiest thing I did as well

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Speaker 1: because of the dividends. That’s the children and the grandchildren.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you should continue to have, I feel like I’m

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Speaker 2: already in shul. You should continue to have nachas from

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Speaker 2: your children and grandchildren.

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Speaker 1: You know this, I think, but literally in the month

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Speaker 1: of September, we had a bat mitzvah and a bar

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Speaker 1: mitzvah one week apart.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I put on a suit this month more than I

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Speaker 1: wanted to.

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Speaker 2: Better for the simple than the other thing you put

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Speaker 2: on the suit.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Well, Michael, thank you so much for joining us on

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Speaker 2: Brave Commerce. We can’t wait to see all the awesomeness

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Speaker 2: that 3C has in store. And maybe we’ll even be invited.

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Speaker 4: To a party.

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Speaker 1: You know you will. Rachel and Sarah, I want to

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Speaker 1: thank both of you. Appreciate it. And as I said

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, I love to talk. So thanks for

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Speaker 1: the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: Truly an opportunity for everybody to use their ears and listen.

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Speaker 2: So thank you. Shana Tova.

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Speaker 1: Shana Tova. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Shana Tova.

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Speaker 3: If you enjoyed hearing from one of our industry greats,

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Speaker 3: we’ve had many on the show, but two in particular

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Speaker 3: that are part of Michael’s Orbits that we want to highlight.

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Speaker 3: go check out an episode that we did with Shelly Zalas,

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Speaker 3: or go check out a very early episode with Gary Vaynerchuk.

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Speaker 3: If you like what you hear, write a review, tell

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Speaker 3: a friend, share on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 4: Hi, I’m Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman

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Speaker 4: and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast

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Speaker 4: launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me

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Speaker 4: this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As

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Speaker 4: a result, I’ve met some of the most fascinating and

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Speaker 4: inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth,

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Speaker 4: we’re coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience

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Speaker 4: stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that

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Speaker 4: will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is

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Speaker 4: available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out

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Speaker 4: every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.