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Speaker 1: In transformation, what I’ve learned is you’ve got to focus

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Speaker 1: on the people. Every single function in Unilever, finance, legal,

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Speaker 1: supply chain, they all came on this journey. And it

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Speaker 1: was like one of the best transformations I’ve led in

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Speaker 1: terms of huge scale.

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Speaker 2: We did this at 24 markets.

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Speaker 1: We looked at the people. We thought about how you

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Speaker 1: create that mindset and that storytelling. And then we built

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Speaker 1: huge systems. And we’re doing exactly the same with AI transformation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my biggest learning from all my transformation roles is put

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Speaker 1: people at the center of it.

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Speaker 2: Think about the people. Don’t think about the tech. Don’t

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Speaker 2: think about the process. Think about the people.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to today’s episode of Free of Commerce. I’m Sarah Hofstadter.

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Speaker 4: And I’m Rachel Tippegraph. And this is a show that

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Speaker 4: talks about what’s relevant in commerce for the world’s biggest brands. Well,

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Speaker 4: I know we’ve had… a lot of Unilever guests onto

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Speaker 4: the show over the years. But the reason why is

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Speaker 4: because they keep pumping out talent and they keep upskilling

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Speaker 4: their talent. And we’re going to have Selena on the show.

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Speaker 4: And she’s going to talk all about Unilever’s AI transformation,

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Speaker 4: which is fascinating because they’re truly not just using it

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Speaker 4: to create marketing, but they’re using it to operationalize their business.

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Speaker 4: And Sarah, I know that there was a great catchphrase

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Speaker 4: that you grabbed onto during the show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, she was talking a lot, and you’ll

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Speaker 3: hear this in a couple of minutes, about the DNAI,

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Speaker 3: like how they capture the critical components of each of

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Speaker 3: their brands, whether it’s that or X or the multitude

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Speaker 3: of iconic brands that they have, and train their AIs

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Speaker 3: on those brand tones and guidelines and whatnot. And I’m

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Speaker 3: not going to spoil it any further because we want

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Speaker 3: you to listen to the whole episode. But one of

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Speaker 3: the areas that that I’ve been thinking a lot about

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Speaker 3: in AI transformation is what are the things that you

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Speaker 3: build that help kind of take your creative work and

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Speaker 3: your brand beliefs and all that other stuff from sitting

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Speaker 3: on a shelf to being ingrained in everything that you do.

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Speaker 3: And so like being able to train AI so that

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Speaker 3: they can speak like your brand and all the things

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Speaker 3: that they’re doing. But then there’s like this other part,

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Speaker 3: which is, We kind of addressed, but I want to

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Speaker 3: pause it back to our audience, which is how do

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Speaker 3: you then get it into your everyday ways of working?

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Speaker 3: I’m not necessarily convinced, and I think the data shows

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Speaker 3: that there’s a lot of enthusiasm about AI, but AI

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Speaker 3: transformation is not held back because of what Selena is doing,

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Speaker 3: because I think there’s a lot of excitement about being

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Speaker 3: able to codify a lot of things and make it

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Speaker 3: more consistent. I think AI is constrained and AI adoption

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Speaker 3: becomes constrained because there’s a belief problem. We have a

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Speaker 3: belief problem that people don’t necessarily believe that AI is

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Speaker 3: going to help them individually. You can help a company grow,

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Speaker 3: but there’s so much fear. There’s so much psychological safety involved.

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Speaker 3: If I use this, does this mean I’m going to

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Speaker 3: be out of a job? If I use this, is

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Speaker 3: it going to be good enough? And whatever that part is,

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Speaker 3: is it going to get it right? Do I believe

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Speaker 3: that that’s going to be the case? And you have

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Speaker 3: to kind of take people on that journey while you’re

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Speaker 3: doing all the technical and technological stuff alongside it. And

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Speaker 3: so I want to caution the audience that I think

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Speaker 3: the thing that Selena talked a lot about is what

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Speaker 3: she’s doing to create those environments and systems. But what

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Speaker 3: she talks about a little bit, but she’s doing so

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Speaker 3: much is is actually driving that belief arc and creating

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Speaker 3: that environment for that to happen. And that, I believe,

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Speaker 3: is a hell of a lot harder than a lot

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Speaker 3: of the other stuff. Sorry, bit of a diatribe on

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Speaker 3: that one.

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Speaker 4: No, no, we’re going to listen to Selena talk about

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Speaker 4: how she’s focusing on people transformation to then lead to

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Speaker 4: the adoption of AI within the organization. So on that note,

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Speaker 4: let’s bring Selena onto the show. Today, we are very

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Speaker 4: excited to have Selina Skikes, the Global VP, Digital, Social,

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Speaker 4: and AI Transformation at Unilever Beauty and Wellbeing. Hello, Selina.

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Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for having me on. Looking forward to chatting.

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Speaker 4: We’re super excited, especially because with a title like that,

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Speaker 4: I feel like there’s a lot to unpack. You’re a

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Speaker 4: longtime Unilever employee and you’ve Even though you’re working within

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Speaker 4: this organization that goes back nearly 100 plus years, you

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Speaker 4: seem to build a career there that is defined by

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Speaker 4: what’s coming next. Just looking at your LinkedIn, it looks

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Speaker 4: like you built out Unilever’s e-commerce capability, you ran their

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Speaker 4: internal startup incubator, and now you’re leading this marketing transformation

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Speaker 4: given the backdrop of AI that we’re all living within.

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Speaker 4: So what is it about you that you’re always taking

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Speaker 4: on roles that really are undefined and are in the gray?

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Speaker 1: I have this like insatiable curiosity and I think it’s like.

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Speaker 2: A lifelong love of learning.

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Speaker 1: And that means that even though I’ve had the privilege

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Speaker 1: at Unilever of working across so many different areas, like

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Speaker 1: you said, e-commerce, sales, marketing, business leadership, One thing that’s

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Speaker 1: always been really common in those has been that they’ve

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Speaker 1: been leading huge change. For example, when you’re starting with

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Speaker 1: e-commerce and you’re saying, how does a business that has

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Speaker 1: been built on brick and mortar sales transform into a

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Speaker 1: business that needs to sell through digital channels? That was

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Speaker 1: a huge challenge for us back in 2009. And it’s

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Speaker 1: really about starting with that blank piece of paper and saying,

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Speaker 1: what’s the blueprint? What’s the way that you build this capability?

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Speaker 1: And I found that Throughout doing that, you said I

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Speaker 1: led the startup. That was a great, incredible experience across business,

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Speaker 1: thinking about how do we start brands in this beauty space,

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Speaker 1: launch them. We launched some of those brands within 90 days.

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Speaker 1: It was like a really agile operations and it was

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Speaker 1: completely transformation of what we built there. And as you

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Speaker 1: say today, a huge marketing transformation that all of us

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Speaker 1: are living with and all of us are grappling with.

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Speaker 1: And throughout all of that, what I really believe is

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Speaker 1: that the most exciting opportunities come about at that intersection

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Speaker 1: of uncertainty, and possibility. And I just love being in

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Speaker 1: that moment. And that gives me energy. And that’s why

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Speaker 1: I’ve always found myself in those roles, right in the future.

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Speaker 3: I love that. I think there’s a lot to unpack there.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like just unpacking the answer to that

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Speaker 3: question alone. And by the way, I would think that

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Speaker 3: that would make for a really awesome episode. So if

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Speaker 3: you don’t mind, let me go a little bit deeper

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Speaker 3: into that. Of course. Because the areas that you’re covering

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Speaker 3: today are very much reflective of the biggest changes in

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Speaker 3: consumer behavior as it is. All the words of your

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Speaker 3: word title. You’ve got global, you’ve got digital, social, AI transformation,

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Speaker 3: anger and beauty and well-being. It’s like the confluence of

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Speaker 3: all of the seismic changes that have happened in combination

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Speaker 3: of consumer behavior over the past, call it, 20, 25 years.

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Speaker 3: If we look back 25 years ago and we looked

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Speaker 3: at the beauty industry, what would it be like Digital,

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Speaker 3: that was like just as Google was getting started. Social,

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Speaker 3: it didn’t even have MySpace. So everything that you’ve done,

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Speaker 3: everything that you’re doing today would have been impossible a

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Speaker 3: quarter century ago. AI would have been impossible five years ago.

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Speaker 3: Social would have been impossible 15 years ago. So each

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Speaker 3: one of these has to be at that intersection of

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Speaker 3: what you say, uncertainty and possibility. I want to kind

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Speaker 3: of go a little bit deeper into the AI of

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Speaker 3: it because that’s the most recent component. First of all,

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Speaker 3: just a clarifying grammatical question. Is the word transformation in

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Speaker 3: your title applicable just to AI or is it digital

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Speaker 3: and social as well? So that’s part A of the question.

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Speaker 3: Then I’ll go to part B.

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Speaker 1: Part A is we look at transformation as muscle that

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Speaker 1: we need to have to be competitive in the market.

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Speaker 2: You’re right.

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Speaker 1: Not only is everything changing, the way you just described

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Speaker 1: it was perfect because we’re seeing the convergence. There’s like

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Speaker 1: a huge convergence of all these trends into seismic change

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Speaker 1: that’s happening. And therefore, in order to remain competitive, if

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Speaker 1: you think about strategy, you could define strategy as building advantage,

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Speaker 1: a competitive advantage for your business that will mean that

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Speaker 1: you win in the future.

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Speaker 2: That’s what a strategy is.

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Speaker 1: So understanding how to do transformation all the time, continuous transformation,

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Speaker 1: having the focus and discipline as well as the speed

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Speaker 1: and agility to do that is what my job’s all about.

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Speaker 1: And it does span all of those things because all

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Speaker 1: of those things are converging.

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Speaker 3: So the part B of it, when you’re leading transformation,

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Speaker 3: which is a muscle, a lot of it could sit

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Speaker 3: in the Selena world, but you’ve got to influence that

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Speaker 3: and have people, almost like a 12-step process, acknowledge that

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Speaker 3: there is a problem-solving opportunity and then get people on

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Speaker 3: board with change and convince them that their psychological safety,

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Speaker 3: involved and it’s like what are the things that you

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Speaker 3: are doing to advance not adoption per se and certainly

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Speaker 3: not transformation because that’s one of those like very loaded

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Speaker 3: words but opening their mind to that intersection of uncertainty

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Speaker 3: and possibility but with a bias towards positivity of this

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Speaker 3: is going to make my job better my work product

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Speaker 3: better all of those things better how do you lead.

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Speaker 1: That yeah there’s this fabulous quote richard tobacco ella said

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Speaker 1: it businesses don’t change people do absolutely and that is

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Speaker 1: exactly what you’re saying hey like it’s about the people

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Speaker 1: like that’s what’s really changing and one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I’ve stayed at Unilever is because it has such scale

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Speaker 1: and opportunity to impact people’s lives like the people we

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Speaker 1: ultimately serve our consumers and our shareholders but also people

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Speaker 1: in the business there’s such huge scale within our business

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Speaker 1: and yes it adds complexity but I’m up for that

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Speaker 1: challenge and there’s so much opportunity in that challenge so

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Speaker 1: absolutely as you say in transformation what I’ve learned is

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Speaker 1: you’ve got to focus on the people there are two

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Speaker 1: areas that I think really move people in transformation one

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Speaker 1: is the storytelling around it just like marketing is all

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Speaker 1: about storytelling this job is all about storytelling like how

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Speaker 1: are you explaining it how are you making it relevant

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Speaker 1: how are you making it exciting and clear and And simple,

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Speaker 1: but not simplistic for people to understand why and what

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Speaker 1: we’re doing. And then the second part that I really

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Speaker 1: focus on myself is systems thinking. How do you build

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Speaker 1: the system? Because in an operation of that scale, it

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Speaker 1: has to be systemic and systematic. It has to be

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Speaker 1: a system of behavior change, a system of technology, a

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Speaker 1: system of process.

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Speaker 2: All these systems.

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Speaker 1: Need to come together to make it easy for the

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Speaker 1: change to happen, to make it easy for the transformation

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Speaker 1: to happen. And you’ve got to think about all those

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Speaker 1: component parts. So I’m leading now this huge AI transformation,

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Speaker 1: but what I’ve been doing in the last two years

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Speaker 1: primarily was leading what we called our social first transformation.

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Speaker 1: And for Unilever, that was really making sure that we’d

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Speaker 1: fully shifted from this one to many kind of marketing

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Speaker 1: model to a many to many marketing model. So we

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Speaker 1: called it a social first transformation. There could be many

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Speaker 1: names for that, but that’s how we coined it. There

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Speaker 1: was so much that we did in storytelling, spending time

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Speaker 1: with people, building those relationships, building that understanding. I love

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Speaker 1: how you said it, like what’s in it for them,

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Speaker 1: what’s in it for them and what’s in it for

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Speaker 1: their business. And often those things can come together for people.

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Speaker 1: And then spend the rest of my time really working out, okay,

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Speaker 1: what’s the org that we’re bringing, the org design, what

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Speaker 1: are the talents and the skills that we need to

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Speaker 1: make sure that people have? What are the processes we

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Speaker 1: need to rewrite? What are the processes that we need

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Speaker 1: to adapt? Technology, how do you create the culture for this?

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Speaker 1: The new risks need to be taking, new conversations. And

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Speaker 1: it was fantastic because every single function in Unilever, finance, legal,

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Speaker 1: supply chain, they all came on this journey. And it

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Speaker 1: was like one of the best transformations I’ve led in

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Speaker 1: terms of huge scale.

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Speaker 2: We did this at 24 markets.

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Speaker 1: And it was exactly how you said, we looked at

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Speaker 1: the people. We thought about how you create that mindset

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Speaker 1: and that storytelling. And then we built huge systems. And

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Speaker 1: we’re doing exactly the same with AI transformation, investing in

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Speaker 1: building confidence in people. for seeing the value in what

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Speaker 1: they can create with AI rather than this is just

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Speaker 1: about technology.

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Speaker 2: It’s like, no, this is about what you can create

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Speaker 2: with the technology, really.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my biggest learning from all my transformation roles is

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Speaker 1: put people at the center of it. Think about the people.

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Speaker 1: Don’t think about the tech. Don’t think about the process.

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Speaker 1: Think about the people. Then build those people the system

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Speaker 1: so they can own the outcomes. Because it’s not about

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Speaker 1: you as a leader. It’s about what they’re delivering for

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Speaker 1: themselves and the business.

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Speaker 4: So when you went through this with digital and social,

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Speaker 4: what was that time frame? How long did it take

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Speaker 4: to transform?

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Speaker 1: So we’ve all seen the transformation and I don’t know

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Speaker 1: when you could pinpoint it. I often look at when

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Speaker 1: TikTok came along because I think that shift from the

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Speaker 1: social graph to the interest graph was a huge moment

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Speaker 1: in marketing. And I think since then, Unilever has been

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Speaker 1: on that journey massively if you look at our success

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Speaker 1: over that time. But what we’ve done in the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years, I’d say two to three years, is

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Speaker 1: we’ve really doubled down on like, as I say, systemic

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Speaker 1: changes that happen in our business. processes, technology, skills, and

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Speaker 1: culture to really enable what the future is coming. And

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Speaker 1: I think AI has just accelerated that.

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Speaker 4: You know, when I was preparing for this interview, there

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Speaker 4: was a bunch of interviews about you and you’re quoted

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Speaker 4: in quite a few places. And I really love this

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Speaker 4: framework that you talk about, which is how AI helps

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Speaker 4: raise the floor, which you define as making every marketer

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Speaker 4: more productive and everything that you’ve just discussed with workflows,

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Speaker 4: and then raising the ceiling on what marketers can accomplish.

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Speaker 4: And that’s what you were just talking about in terms

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Speaker 4: of confidence. Now, I think it’s totally right. And I

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Speaker 4: have to guess that so many organizations are doing the

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Speaker 4: same right now. So where do you think the competitive

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Speaker 4: advantage will come from?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s such an important focus of ours, because ultimately,

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Speaker 1: it’s a tool. And a lot of the tools and

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Speaker 1: the capabilities of those tools will finally become accessible to everybody.

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Speaker 1: It’s probably one of the most accessible technologies that’s ever

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Speaker 1: been like launched really, which is why it’s so widely adopted.

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Speaker 2: So the accessibility is there. So if everyone has access

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Speaker 2: to it.

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Speaker 1: And AI in itself, it does equalize, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you get to like the AI slop levels, it’s because

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Speaker 1: everyone’s coming down rather than actually using it to enhance

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Speaker 1: their own capabilities. So with that in mind, our mantra

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Speaker 1: is that AI must be an amplifier for our business,

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Speaker 1: an amplifier for our talent. How do you take someone

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Speaker 1: even at an individual level and how does AI take

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Speaker 1: superpower and supercharge them, but also our brands, our business.

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Speaker 1: What is it about our scaled business with these incredible

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Speaker 1: brands that have been around? Some of them have been

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Speaker 1: around for, as you said, hundreds of years. What is

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Speaker 1: it about AI that’s going to amplify them? Really good example, actually,

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Speaker 1: that brings us to life. We created this AI capability

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Speaker 1: called the brand DNAI.

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Speaker 2: So DNAI. And what is that?

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Speaker 1: It’s a codification of of all our brand systems, tone

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Speaker 1: of voice, guidelines, guardrails, visual identities, or everything that any

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Speaker 1: marketer will know that makes a brand distinctive, that makes

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Speaker 1: a brand meaningful, that builds that kind of memory structures

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Speaker 1: within a brand. And we have been creating that for

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Speaker 1: forever in Unilever. But what we’ve done now with AI

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Speaker 1: is we codified it into this AI model that now

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Speaker 1: means that we can raise the bar on consistent quality.

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Speaker 1: on every piece of content that we make in a

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Speaker 1: way that we couldn’t have done without AI. So we’re

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Speaker 1: taking something that we had as a competitive advantage, which

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Speaker 1: is our brands, and we’ve amplified the quality and consistency

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Speaker 1: which we can deliver those brands to people through using AI.

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Speaker 1: So that’s a really good example of that amplification. You’ve

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Speaker 1: got to constantly think with AI, what’s it unlocking? What’s

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Speaker 1: it amplifying for your business? That’s how you create the

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Speaker 1: competitive advantage.

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Speaker 3: I love it. I really, of course, I always love

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Speaker 3: catchy things like DNAI.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was not mine. I take no credit.

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Speaker 3: All right. Who should we be giving credit to on

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Speaker 3: this one?

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Speaker 1: I hate to name a person because I might be wrong,

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Speaker 1: but AC Eggleston Bracey was our old CMO. I feel

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Speaker 1: like it was her, but she will, at some point,

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Speaker 1: if this gets back to her, she’ll tell me if

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Speaker 1: I’m right or wrong.

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Speaker 3: She’s a former guest.

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Speaker 2: So, uh, he’s incredible.

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Speaker 3: I’ll give a shout out maybe in the show notes. Regardless,

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Speaker 3: I always say there are two types of people. There’s the, uh, SPIs,

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Speaker 3: there’s the see big ideas and then there’s the GSDs,

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Speaker 3: the get shit done-ers. So you can point the idea,

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Speaker 3: but you still got to bring it to life.

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Speaker 2: I think she can do both.

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Speaker 3: No doubt. No doubt. The devil becomes in the details

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Speaker 3: in not just getting shit done and creating it. And

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Speaker 3: that kind of leads to my question. All of that

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Speaker 3: DNA that you’re creating is extraordinary. It’s a library, if

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Speaker 3: you will. It’s a mechanism to pull from. It’s so

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Speaker 3: that anything that is created for the brands, you don’t

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Speaker 3: need to have somebody like kind of check it against

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Speaker 3: the checklist that’s always ingrained and happening. This kind of

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Speaker 3: reminds me a little bit though of the playbook era

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Speaker 3: where there was a social playbook and a mobile playbook

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Speaker 3: and a search playbook and a programmatic playbook. And those

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Speaker 3: playbooks are great. They sit on a shelf. So my

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Speaker 3: question to you is, where are you on your journey

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Speaker 3: in taking this DNAI and embedding it into the workflows

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Speaker 3: of how the work gets done so it doesn’t collect

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Speaker 3: virtual dust. If the answer is we’re on the journey,

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Speaker 3: we’re building it. That’s to be expected. If you’re further

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Speaker 3: along on that, that’s pretty cool too. So just curious

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Speaker 3: to see how you think about making sure that these beautiful, intelligent, living,

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Speaker 3: breathing documents get incorporated into ways of working that might

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Speaker 3: be so ingrained in the intellectual DNA of the way

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Speaker 3: businesses work.

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Speaker 2: A hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: It has to be an operating system. It can’t just be,

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Speaker 1: like you say, a playbook on the shelf. It’s funny

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Speaker 1: you talk about playbooks. So we still produce playbooks. And

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Speaker 1: I tell you why, because there are no playbooks for

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Speaker 1: what you’re doing. And sometimes in the storytelling, you have

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Speaker 1: to give people a play by play. And if I

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Speaker 1: could find a new name for it, I would do

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Speaker 1: it because I personally hate the concept of playbooks because

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Speaker 1: you used to get these like hundred page playbooks that

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Speaker 1: no one would read and If you were in my team,

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Speaker 1: my team would tell you I banned them from writing

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Speaker 1: those types of playbooks.

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Speaker 2: They have to be actionable.

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Speaker 3: You’ve got to teach your agents that too while.

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Speaker 1: You’re at it.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But I am with you 100%. What is critical is

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Speaker 1: that this becomes living and breathing. And it’s not relying

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Speaker 1: on a piece of paper telling people what to do.

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Speaker 1: It’s not relying on some great talent that just have

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Speaker 1: the attitude and the motivation to, like you say, get

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Speaker 1: shit done. That it’s actually relying, and this is why

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Speaker 1: this word system is so important to me. Like, how

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Speaker 1: do we have something in place that people can operate by?

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Speaker 1: And it just becomes part of how stuff gets done

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Speaker 1: in the culture, in the ways of working, the technology

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Speaker 1: that they’re using day in, day out. One of the

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Speaker 1: good examples of where we have actually really made it

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Speaker 1: an operating system is with content creation. So we’ve built,

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Speaker 1: it’s now been standing for nearly 18 months, a content

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Speaker 1: supply chain. So we scaled AI studios into 18 markets

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Speaker 1: across the world. We’ve rewired how we do content adaptation

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Speaker 1: through these AI studios, and it has really unlocked huge

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Speaker 1: amounts of growth and effectiveness. So efficiency in terms of

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Speaker 1: the speed that we’re getting things done. But what’s most

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Speaker 1: exciting is the quality of the content. And this is

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Speaker 1: where the brand DNA comes in. The quality of the

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Speaker 1: content is better. We’re getting 23% plus purchase intention on

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Speaker 1: that content versus the content we were producing before manually.

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Speaker 1: And everyone is operating by that system now. And it

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Speaker 1: has become the way we do things. But I add

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Speaker 1: to it, it keeps changing. Like AI technology in that

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Speaker 1: content supply chain needs to keep growing because every month

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Speaker 1: new tools are created. Agentech is a huge shift. And

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Speaker 1: Agentech wasn’t around three years ago when we started building

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Speaker 1: the content supply chain. So it is a constant transformation

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Speaker 1: of the capability you’re building, but it has to be

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Speaker 1: an operating system. It can’t just be a guidebook that

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Speaker 1: is passive.

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Speaker 4: Given your global seat, We’ve talked a lot about the

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Speaker 4: supply side, which is extremely important, but what are you

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Speaker 4: seeing in terms of the shift in consumer behavior on

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Speaker 4: the demand side?

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Speaker 1: I love that a lot of conversation is around AI’s

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Speaker 1: productivity tool and how’s it going to change marketing workflows,

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Speaker 1: which is really important.

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Speaker 2: But the most.

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Speaker 1: Exciting bit is how it’s going to change human behavior.

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Speaker 1: And I think we’ve all experienced that as people, first

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Speaker 1: and foremost. How has AI changed how we are and

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Speaker 1: how consumers are going to behave? If you even look

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Speaker 1: at agentic search, So I work in beauty, as you said,

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Speaker 1: and 82% of purchases have got AI somewhere in the

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Speaker 1: recommendation journey to get to that already.

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Speaker 2: Already that’s happening.

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Speaker 1: It means you need to think about demand creation in

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Speaker 1: a different way. So when we launched recently, one of

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Speaker 1: our most highly performing products was a Dove hair repair mask.

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Speaker 1: Highly recommend it. I use it all the time. It’s

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Speaker 1: a great product. We knew this product was incredible. And

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Speaker 1: if you think about, okay, we’ve got a product here,

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Speaker 1: which is game changing in terms of what it can do,

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Speaker 1: the technology in it, the needs that it can serve people.

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Speaker 1: Back in the day, you think, okay, we’ll broadcast some

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00:21:45,850 –> 00:21:48,129
Speaker 1: information about this. We’ll tell people our claims.

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00:21:48,619 –> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 2: They’ll get it.

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00:21:49,540 –> 00:21:53,020
Speaker 1: But now in this new world about how AI is changing,

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00:21:53,600 –> 00:21:57,139
Speaker 1: AI and creators, how they’re changing demand creation, we needed

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00:21:57,180 –> 00:21:58,260
Speaker 1: to approach it in a different way.

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00:21:58,359 –> 00:21:59,780
Speaker 2: So we partnered with Reddit.

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00:22:00,119 –> 00:22:03,100
Speaker 1: Anyone who goes on Reddit knows it’s the ultimate community

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00:22:03,140 –> 00:22:05,970
Speaker 1: for trusted recommendations. And we approached it in a way

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00:22:06,010 –> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: where we said to the Redditors, tell us, use it.

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00:22:09,050 –> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: We can tell you how great we think it is

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00:22:11,600 –> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 1: from all our R & D research and our clinical evidence,

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00:22:14,140 –> 00:22:16,700
Speaker 1: but you tell us, use it, tell us what you think.

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00:22:17,160 –> 00:22:18,620
Speaker 1: And obviously a lot of people are talking about hair

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00:22:18,640 –> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: care products there anyway. And they told us the good,

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00:22:21,100 –> 00:22:24,060
Speaker 1: the bad, the ugly. We used it in our campaign

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00:22:24,340 –> 00:22:27,460
Speaker 1: as advertising content, which was a really cool creative idea.

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00:22:27,880 –> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: But coming back to your point on AI, what also

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00:22:30,119 –> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: happened is is the conversation and the trust signals that

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00:22:34,340 –> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: were built through that campaign meant that that product really

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00:22:37,540 –> 00:22:41,140
Speaker 1: rose through the rankings in terms of AI search and discoverability.

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00:22:41,650 –> 00:22:45,929
Speaker 1: So we found that people are going to LLMs to

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00:22:45,970 –> 00:22:49,429
Speaker 1: get trusted recommendations. We have to build that trust in

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00:22:49,450 –> 00:22:52,429
Speaker 1: a different way to have the signals going to the

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00:22:52,490 –> 00:22:56,460
Speaker 1: AI so we become discoverable. So trust became our discoverability

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00:22:56,480 –> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: strategy for that product rather than telling people. And AI

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00:23:01,210 –> 00:23:04,890
Speaker 1: will drive efficiency. AI has to drive effectiveness for your business,

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00:23:05,450 –> 00:23:10,780
Speaker 1: but it’s going to really reshape how demand’s created for brands.

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00:23:11,680 –> 00:23:14,459
Speaker 4: I can’t recall if this was the same campaign, but

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00:23:14,500 –> 00:23:17,719
Speaker 4: I remember at Cannes, some of Unilever’s work was featured

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00:23:17,780 –> 00:23:21,010
Speaker 4: where you took consumer sentiment from Reddit.

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00:23:21,430 –> 00:23:21,950
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was it.

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00:23:22,740 –> 00:23:22,940
Speaker 4: Yeah.

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00:23:23,000 –> 00:23:23,260
Speaker 1: Okay.

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00:23:23,380 –> 00:23:23,580
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:23:23,800 –> 00:23:24,699
Speaker 4: That was powerful.

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00:23:24,760 –> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: Good, the bad, the ugly.

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00:23:26,460 –> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:23:26,920 –> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 2: And you know what?

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00:23:27,600 –> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: Again, this could be a whole other podcast, but what

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00:23:29,540 –> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: I really loved about that campaign, there were so many

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00:23:31,500 –> 00:23:33,100
Speaker 1: things to love, but what I really loved about it

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00:23:33,160 –> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: is it’s so true to Dove.

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00:23:34,720 –> 00:23:34,980
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:23:35,020 –> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: So Dove is a brand.

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00:23:36,700 –> 00:23:42,690
Speaker 1: That’s always been about realness, like real beauty. And in 2025, 2026,

466
00:23:42,690 –> 00:23:44,929
Speaker 1: it was redefining what real means.

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00:23:45,350 –> 00:23:46,010
Speaker 2: And it means Reddit.

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00:23:46,170 –> 00:23:46,370
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:23:46,410 –> 00:23:47,850
Speaker 1: And it means Reddit for so many people. That’s where

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00:23:47,869 –> 00:23:50,230
Speaker 1: they get their realness, their dose of realness. you know,

471
00:23:50,250 –> 00:23:53,020
Speaker 1: in a world of influencers and so many people talking

472
00:23:53,040 –> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: about stuff, they go to Reddit to get the truth.

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00:23:55,060 –> 00:23:59,020
Speaker 1: And it was so appropriate for Dove to say, we

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00:23:59,100 –> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: really love this product.

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00:23:59,900 –> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: We think this product’s amazing. What do you think? And

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00:24:01,640 –> 00:24:03,580
Speaker 2: we will take it all. We will take it all

477
00:24:03,619 –> 00:24:04,780
Speaker 2: and we will publicize it all.

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00:24:05,220 –> 00:24:08,659
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that was awesome. Well, Selena, we have to

479
00:24:08,800 –> 00:24:13,100
Speaker 4: ask you our famous last question, which is what’s the

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00:24:13,140 –> 00:24:14,260
Speaker 4: bravest thing you’ve ever done?

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00:24:14,280 –> 00:24:17,780
Speaker 1: That’s funny because today’s the last day of a nine

482
00:24:17,840 –> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: week school holiday for my kids. So when I thought

483
00:24:20,340 –> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: about this, I thought having three kids and working full

484
00:24:22,800 –> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: time is probably the bravest, craziest thing I’ve ever done.

485
00:24:25,880 –> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: But then I thought again, I thought again, and I thought,

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00:24:29,040 –> 00:24:31,609
Speaker 1: I don’t know if bravery or I show bravery in

487
00:24:31,650 –> 00:24:34,710
Speaker 1: a single moment or like a big decision, you know,

488
00:24:34,730 –> 00:24:38,270
Speaker 1: to your question. I really feel like for me, bravery

489
00:24:38,290 –> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: is about those micro moments and bravery is about how

490
00:24:41,880 –> 00:24:45,100
Speaker 1: I show up, you know, my every day to day choices.

491
00:24:45,720 –> 00:24:46,859
Speaker 2: Especially in my job.

492
00:24:46,940 –> 00:24:49,609
Speaker 1: Like There’s so many times when I don’t know all

493
00:24:49,650 –> 00:24:52,890
Speaker 1: the answers, where I have got that blank piece of paper,

494
00:24:53,520 –> 00:24:56,179
Speaker 1: where you need to pioneer a capability and there is

495
00:24:56,240 –> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: no playbook.

496
00:24:56,820 –> 00:24:59,660
Speaker 2: We’re talking about playbooks. And also when things are.

497
00:24:59,619 –> 00:25:02,420
Speaker 1: Really uncertain and changing, like the world’s moving beneath your

498
00:25:02,440 –> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: feet and you need to have confidence and lead forward,

499
00:25:06,100 –> 00:25:08,590
Speaker 1: you know, to create growth and to create, you know,

500
00:25:08,609 –> 00:25:10,070
Speaker 1: advantage for your business and your team.

501
00:25:10,670 –> 00:25:13,410
Speaker 2: And that’s the kind of bravery. It’s like the micro moments.

502
00:25:13,450 –> 00:25:15,410
Speaker 1: It’s not one decision, but it’s like how you show

503
00:25:15,470 –> 00:25:18,149
Speaker 1: up every day. This is why I love your podcast,

504
00:25:18,170 –> 00:25:22,369
Speaker 1: because I think this is what everyone needs is this constant,

505
00:25:22,390 –> 00:25:25,929
Speaker 1: consistent bravery and courage to be able to show up

506
00:25:25,970 –> 00:25:27,859
Speaker 1: day after day in this world.

507
00:25:27,619 –> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: Where everything’s changing, like marketing, but also the world.

508
00:25:31,020 –> 00:25:32,940
Speaker 1: And it’s being able to show up with that courage

509
00:25:32,980 –> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: and bravery and be yourself and lead for that change

510
00:25:37,310 –> 00:25:39,290
Speaker 1: that we know needs to happen in our jobs or

511
00:25:39,310 –> 00:25:42,270
Speaker 1: in the world. And that sums up kind of bravery

512
00:25:42,310 –> 00:25:44,670
Speaker 1: for me. It’s not a big moment, but it’s how

513
00:25:44,970 –> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: I kind of try to live it.

514
00:25:46,490 –> 00:25:48,770
Speaker 4: Well, we love it. We love spending time with you.

515
00:25:48,790 –> 00:25:52,149
Speaker 4: You certainly are one to follow on LinkedIn. And we

516
00:25:52,190 –> 00:25:55,220
Speaker 4: can’t wait to see what next role you might take

517
00:25:55,500 –> 00:25:56,700
Speaker 4: on at Unilever.

518
00:25:56,880 –> 00:25:59,740
Speaker 2: Thanks, Rachel. Thanks, Sarah.

519
00:25:59,760 –> 00:26:00,260
Speaker 1: Thanks, both.

520
00:26:00,340 –> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: It’s fantastic chatting.

521
00:26:04,080 –> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 4: If you like what you heard and you want to

522
00:26:06,520 –> 00:26:10,209
Speaker 4: hear another brand executive talk about how they think AI

523
00:26:10,270 –> 00:26:14,270
Speaker 4: is going to impact not just workflow, but human consumption,

524
00:26:14,290 –> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 4: go check out an episode we did with Stefan from Nestle.

525
00:26:18,040 –> 00:26:20,580
Speaker 4: And don’t forget, write a review. Thanks for listening.

526
00:26:30,640 –> 00:26:32,170
Speaker 3: Thank you.